I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated.
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I'm not sure what you mean by 2/1 as a minimum. Care to add a bit more detail?
Prestige classes often require multiclassing to enter and even those that don't often benefit more from taking a couple of levels here, a level there, another in a third class. e.g.
Also Scott Wilhelm has a bunch of multiclassing builds and he's been posting regularly recently. Don't settle on something until you've seen his favourites.
avr wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by 2/1 as a minimum. Care to add a bit more detail?
Prestige classes often require multiclassing to enter and even those that don't often benefit more from taking a couple of levels here, a level there, another in a third class. e.g.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Also Scott Wilhelm has a bunch of multiclassing builds and he's been posting regularly recently. Don't settle on something until you've seen his favourites.
First of all thank you. Secondly, sorry for not being clear. By 2/1 I mean, level 10 wizard must have a level 5 sorcerer. Or any other class.
Trashmage23 wrote: By 2/1 I mean, level 10 wizard must have a level 5 sorcerer. Or any other class. That rules out the rogue 1/wizard 3 w/accomplished sneak attacker feat arcane trickster build, but not the rogue 1/vivisectionist alchemist 1/wizard 3/arcane trickster X build. All the others I listed should work.
What level range are you playing? There are some multiclass builds that may not work at higher levels but will work nicely at low levels and vice-versa.
If you're looking for something that will play well from 1st level while consistently maintaining a 2:1 ratio, this is a variation of build I've been playing around with recently that would meet that criteria:
Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer), Reactionary
1 - Paladin - Cunning
2 - Scaled Fist Unchained Monk
3 - Paladin - Spell Focus (Evocation)
4 - Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline; take Blood Havoc bloodline mutation)
5 - Sorcerer - (Favored Prestige Class: Dragon Disciple)
6 - Dragon Disciple
7 - Dragon Disciple - Power Attack, Prestigious Spellcaster (Dragon Disciple)
8 - Dragon Disciple
9 - Dragon Disciple - Empower Spell
10 - Dragon Disciple - Improved Initiative
11 - Dragon Disciple - Prestigious Spellcaster (Dragon Disciple)
12 - Dragon Disciple
13 - Dragon Disciple - Quickened Spell, Intensified Spell
14 - Eldritch Knight - Improved Critical
15 - Eldritch Knight - Spell Perfection (your pick)
16 - Eldritch Knight
17 - Eldritch Knight - Dazing Spell
18 - Eldritch Knight - (your pick)
19 - Eldritch Knight - (your pick)
20 - Eldritch Knight
Final levels: Paladin 2 / Scaled Fist 1 / Sorcerer 2 / Dragon Disciple 8 / Eldritch Knight 7
Ideally you want a race that gives a Str/Cha ability score bonus (Angelkin Aasimar, Sunsoul Ifrit or Nagaji would work well), but going Human is worth consideration since the build is very starved for feats and skill points alike.
This gives you +17 base attack bonus and access to 8th level spells at 20th level. With a versatile spell selection you will have a wide range of modes; you will be a melee powerhouse, a potent party buffer, can have powerful utility options, and will have respectable blasting power at a range. Dragon Disciple boosts your Str and Con for good melee presence, Paladin adds Cha to all saves, Scaled Fist adds Cha to AC, and you're almost completely D10 and D12 hit dice for good hit point totals. The only place this build suffers is that it's bad at skills, as Intelligence is a dump stat and most of your classes offer only 2 skill points per level, plus you need to max Spellcraft to meet feat prerequisites. That's why the Cunning feat is taken at first level.
What is your GM's purpose for this requirement?
Dasrak wrote: What level range are you playing? There are some multiclass builds that may not work at higher levels but will work nicely at low levels and vice-versa.
If you're looking for something that will play well from 1st level while consistently maintaining a 2:1 ratio, this is a variation of build I've been playing around with recently that would meet that criteria:
Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer), Reactionary
1 - Paladin - Cunning
2 - Scaled Fist Unchained Monk
3 - Paladin - Spell Focus (Evocation)
4 - Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline; take Blood Havoc bloodline mutation)
5 - Sorcerer - (Favored Prestige Class: Dragon Disciple)
6 - Dragon Disciple
7 - Dragon Disciple - Power Attack, Prestigious Spellcaster (Dragon Disciple)
8 - Dragon Disciple
9 - Dragon Disciple - Empower Spell
10 - Dragon Disciple - Improved Initiative
11 - Dragon Disciple - Prestigious Spellcaster (Dragon Disciple)
12 - Dragon Disciple
13 - Dragon Disciple - Quickened Spell, Intensified Spell
14 - Eldritch Knight - Improved Critical
15 - Eldritch Knight - Spell Perfection (your pick)
16 - Eldritch Knight
17 - Eldritch Knight - Dazing Spell
18 - Eldritch Knight - (your pick)
19 - Eldritch Knight - (your pick)
20 - Eldritch Knight
Final levels: Paladin 2 / Scaled Fist 1 / Sorcerer 2 / Dragon Disciple 8 / Eldritch Knight 7
Ideally you want a race that gives a Str/Cha ability score bonus (Angelkin Aasimar, Sunsoul Ifrit or Nagaji would work well), but going Human is worth consideration since the build is very starved for feats and skill points alike.
This gives you +17 base attack bonus and access to 8th level spells at 20th level. With a versatile spell selection you will have a wide range of modes; you will be a melee powerhouse, a potent party buffer, can have powerful utility options, and will have respectable blasting power at a range. Dragon Disciple boosts your Str and Con for good melee presence, Paladin adds Cha to all saves, Scaled Fist adds Cha to AC, and you're almost completely D10 and D12 hit dice for...
First of all, again thank you. And we're starting at level 5, to no definite limit.
*Khan* wrote: What is your GM's purpose for this requirement? ...Honestly? I have no clue.
Not specific to anything, but Oracle.
Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle’s curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle’s curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must a single curse. So an Oracle-8/Fighter-4 would count as having a 10th level Oracle curse (8 from Oracle and 4÷2=2 from Fighter).
This means the Oracle has a class feature that levels up when you take other classes. Just something to think about.
Still need more information.
How is the ratio calculated for three or more classes? If the goal is really to encourage multiclassing then the most logical method would be that the highest class level be limited to 1/3rd of total character level... but it would be good to get clarification that it isn't instead something like 'highest class level' vs 'lowest class level'.
How many levels before this ratio limit kicks in? It obviously can't apply at 1st level, but theoretically could at character level 2 and later. If it doesn't kick in until around character level 10 then virtually any prestige class and the class(es) needed for its pre-reqs should qualify.
One extreme approach might be to take single level dips in various archetypes and prestige classes that give +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level. That could allow you to build up a significant amount of sneak attack damage around a melee class that doesn't normally get the ability.
Trashmage23 if you have no glue then ask your GM.
If the reason is to power down the PC and give them af broader set of abilities, then have that in mind with your build.
If the reason is tied to the story/setting then have that in mind.
CBDunkerson wrote: Still need more information.
How is the ratio calculated for three or more classes? If the goal is really to encourage multiclassing then the most logical method would be that the highest class level be limited to 1/3rd of total character level... but it would be good to get clarification that it isn't instead something like 'highest class level' vs 'lowest class level'.
How many levels before this ratio limit kicks in? It obviously can't apply at 1st level, but theoretically could at character level 2 and later. If it doesn't kick in until around character level 10 then virtually any prestige class and the class(es) needed for its pre-reqs should qualify.
One extreme approach might be to take single level dips in various archetypes and prestige classes that give +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level. That could allow you to build up a significant amount of sneak attack damage around a melee class that doesn't normally get the ability.
Sorry, I seem to be pretty bad at giving out the required information. The GM said, "would need to at minimum be 2 to 1 to 1.5 to 1 if you are just doing 2 classes
so 4/2, 4/3, 5/3, 6/3 going forward" We're starting at 5th level, and through another confirmation prestige classes aren't allowed. And the limit seems to kick in around the third level where you need at minimum 1 other class.
I suspect that the intent here is to nerf spellcasting-based characters tho' I have no inside info. No PrCs, OK.
Suppose we consider the iron caster, a character who uses flexible item mastery feats to simulate being a spellcaster. Brawler 2 / weapon master fighter 3 leaves you just short of the weapon master fighter 4 needed to make this work with the advanced weapon training feat with the item mastery AWT but you're still going to be an effective killer at 5th level. Next level though you can use brawler martial flexibility into the AWT, then use the item mastery AWT to get whichever item mastery feat you like.
If that seems likely to aggravate your GM then gunslinger is a class which doesn't mind multiclassing one bit. Maybe into inquisitor for buffs of various kinds, or into phantom blade spiritualist for spell combat.
avr wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by 2/1 as a minimum. Care to add a bit more detail?
Prestige classes often require multiclassing to enter and even those that don't often benefit more from taking a couple of levels here, a level there, another in a third class. e.g.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Also Scott Wilhelm has a bunch of multiclassing builds and he's been posting regularly recently. Don't settle on something until you've seen his favourites.
Aw, now I'm blushing.
Oh yeah, Gunslinger/Inquisitor, Paladin/Oracle, classic multiclass options.
Barbarian pretty much caps at 12, so you could multiclass pretty much anything there. Bloodragers get more from leveling, but there's still a power-spike at around level 12 so multiclassing out after that (or rather ending up as BR-12/XX-8) would still work pretty well.
Brawler ... a level 1 Brawler dip is suuper strong for almost any martial build, so that's something to consider.
Spell casters are obviously weaker in this space than usual, but can still be quite powerful. Something that has good action economy (eg. Magus/Warpriest) could make a good counterpoint to a martial build, or anything with good buffing potential (eg. Cleric) could also work well.
Also I want to make a special mention of the Occultist ... because they're my favourite =P An Occultist can be a full-BAB class with 6th level casting (Trappings of the Warrior), and can have some pretty amazing passive buffs from their resonant powers (which can also be given to other characters if needed).
Trashmage23 wrote: I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated. What do you want your character to be like? Do you want to be a healer? a blaster? a skill monkey? a shooter? a sniper? some combination of the above?
Do you charge into combat, watch enemies flee before you as they watch their fellows vanish in red mists before your onslaught?
Do you want to ravish the world in your Eldritch Fire?
Do you want to be the one who slips the GM a note, and while the party is still arguing about how to enter the enemy fortress, you come back with a map of the perimeter wall placements, inner passages, a surprisingly lot of detail about the princess's bedchamber, oh, and that's where the McGuffin Artifact is hidden. You got in last night doing magic tricks with a troupe of bards, but you think the party's best bet is to take over a shipment of fruit and vegetables coming in this afternoon...
Personally, I wouldn't. DMs don't deserve that kind of control over character building for no reason.
ShadowcatX wrote: Personally, I wouldn't. DMs don't deserve that kind of control over character building for no reason. DMs already have that kind of control over character building.
Elf "Magus" Panache build:
1. Inspired Blade Swashbuckler
2. Hooded Champion Ranger
3-6. Kata Master/MoMS Monk
7-X. Kensai Magus
Panache with a Rapier, Bow, and Unarmed Strikes. Panache Pool being contributed to by multiple ability scores. Panache and Ki are pretty much interchangeable for you. Oh yeah, you have a Ki Pool, as well. Multiple ability scores being applied to your AC. At level 7, you will have BAB +6, and +8/+8/+6 base saves. With the Magical Knack trait, and the Elf's racial +2, you are only down 2 CL for overcoming SR with Magus stuffs. Six levels of Magus and you can take Ki Arcana, making your Ki Pool a backup for both Panache and Arcana. You can wear Monk's Robes to up your AC and Unarmed Strike damage. You can TWF with a Rapier and Unarmed Strikes whenever you aren't doing Magus stuff. Did I mention you can fuse fighting styles? I chose Panther Style and Crane Style for Variel... giving him Opportune Parry & Riposte, Panther Parry, and Crane Riposte. But you can pick anything that fits your, wait for it, style.
Bladed Brush build:
1-4. Phalanx Soldier Fighter
5. Arrow Champion Swashbuckler
6-7. Hooded Champion Ranger
8-11. Arrow Champion Swashbuckler
12-X. Hooded Champion Ranger
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Ironbound Sword Samurai / Fighter
The Ironbound Sword has a really weird 3rd level ability called Merciful Combatant. It allows you to deal nonlethal damage without penalty and grants a small CMB bonus. Then at the end of its description it has this sentence, which is in no way relevant to the actual ability:
Quote: Her samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with fighter levels for the purposes of fighter and samurai prerequisites and class features. '
Right. So a Samurai 10 / Fighter 5 has the Bravery, Armor Training, Weapon Training, and actually even Fighter Bonus Feats of a level 15 Fighter. Since the levels stack for both fighter and samurai class features, the same multiclass also has the Challenge, Mount, Order, Resolve, and Subduing Knockout of a 15th level Ironbound Sword.
They would however not have class features they haven't unlocked yet, such as Demanding Challenge (Samurai 12) or Mutagen Discovery (Mutation Warrior 7), but would get them at full progression the moment they unlock them.
It's basically pseudo-gestalting two martial classes by delaying access to high-level class features.
Gorum's Swordmanship build:
1-3. Weapon Master Fighter
4-7. Scout Rogue
8-14. Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest
Halfling Warslinger build:
1-3. Weapon Master Fighter
4-7. Underground Chemist UnRogue
8-X. Grenadier Alchemist
Dwarven StoneBow build:
1-5. Bolt Ace Gunslinger
6-11. Sohei Monk
12-18. Arsensal Chaplain Warpriest
Ultimate Cleric build:
1-5. Divine Paragon Cleric
6-15. Evangelist PrC
Ranged Sunder build:
1-4. Holomog Demolitionist Investigator
5-7. Archer Fighter
8-9. Toxophilite Ranger
10-X. Holomog Demolitionist Investigator
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Trashmage23 wrote: I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated. What do you want your character to be like? Do you want to be a healer? a blaster? a skill monkey? a shooter? a sniper? some combination of the above?
Do you charge into combat, watch enemies flee before you as they watch their fellows vanish in red mists before your onslaught?
Do you want to ravish the world in your Eldritch Fire?
Do you want to be the one who slips the GM a note, and while the party is still arguing about how to enter the enemy fortress, you come back with a map of the perimeter wall placements, inner passages, a surprisingly lot of detail about the princess's bedchamber, oh, and that's where the McGuffin Artifact is hidden. You got in last night doing magic tricks with a troupe of bards, but you think the party's best bet is to take over a shipment of fruit and vegetables coming in this afternoon... Ah, the famed so good to meet you! I personally dislike stealth characters, mostly because I can't play them correctly. But other than that I just play what's cool. If I was forced to choose something it would be high damage and/or hard to kill.
avr wrote: I suspect that the intent here is to nerf spellcasting-based characters tho' I have no inside info. No PrCs, OK.
Suppose we consider the iron caster, a character who uses flexible item mastery feats to simulate being a spellcaster. Brawler 2 / weapon master fighter 3 leaves you just short of the weapon master fighter 4 needed to make this work with the advanced weapon training feat with the item mastery AWT but you're still going to be an effective killer at 5th level. Next level though you can use brawler martial flexibility into the AWT, then use the item mastery AWT to get whichever item mastery feat you like.
If that seems likely to aggravate your GM then gunslinger is a class which doesn't mind multiclassing one bit. Maybe into inquisitor for buffs of various kinds, or into phantom blade spiritualist for spell combat.
Wouldn't the advanced weapon training only apply to one item mastery? Or is the plan to martial flexibility into advanced weapon training and then get item mastery?
Trashmage23 wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Trashmage23 wrote: I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated. What do you want your character to be like? Do you want to be a healer? a blaster? a skill monkey? a shooter? a sniper? some combination of the above?
Do you charge into combat, watch enemies flee before you as they watch their fellows vanish in red mists before your onslaught?
Do you want to ravish the world in your Eldritch Fire?
Do you want to be the one who slips the GM a note, and while the party is still arguing about how to enter the enemy fortress, you come back with a map of the perimeter wall placements, inner passages, a surprisingly lot of detail about the princess's bedchamber, oh, and that's where the McGuffin Artifact is hidden. You got in last night doing magic tricks with a troupe of bards, but you think the party's best bet is to take over a shipment of fruit and vegetables coming in this afternoon... Ah, the famed so good to meet you! I personally dislike stealth characters, mostly because I can't play them correctly. But other than that I just play what's cool. If I was forced to choose something it would be high damage and/or hard to kill. I have a lot of character builds that do high damage and are hard to kill.
I have 2 Goblin character builds: a Monk (sort of) and an Alchemist (mostly). The Monk would work as a Halfling.
I have a Druidzilla build.
I have a Natural Attack person-build or 2 that might serve.
I have a Thunder and Fang (Earthbreaker & Klar) Bull Rush build.
I have a sword and board build.
All of the above builds combine high Damage and high survivability and all multiclass extensively. Some might need adapting.
Primary class hunter or sacred huntmaster inquisitor, secondary class wildchild brawler.
Primary cavalier, secondary hunter.
A couple animal companion centered mixes.
Trashmage23 wrote: Or is the plan to martial flexibility into advanced weapon training and then get item mastery? Yes.
Martial flexibility to gain the advanced weapon training feat. (move action)
With the AWT feat select the item mastery option. (no action)
With the item mastery AWT option select an item mastery feat. (no action)
Use the item mastery feat (standard action); no item other than the weapon you selected as a weapon master is needed.
Java Man wrote: Primary class hunter or sacred huntmaster inquisitor, secondary class wildchild brawler.
Primary cavalier, secondary hunter.
A couple animal companion centered mixes.
If you go dex based, you could toss a couple Unchained Rogue levels in there and have a flanking sneak attack buddy.
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Medium(Champion) 1 with Spirit Focus and Spirit-bonded enchant, Weapon Master Fighter 3 with Gloves of Dueling(though you probably can't afford until 10), Unchained Barbarian 1 for unchained rage.
Dual-wield and add to both weapons (not reduced by half) +3 attack/+5 damage from Medium, +1 attack/+1 damage (+3/3 with the gloves) from Fighter, and +2 attack/+2 damage from Unchained Rage. BAB +4, +6 to attack from class abilities, +8 damage. Before Strength, weapon enchantments, or Power Attack. You can consider adding in Swashbuckler, but then you can't dual-wield. Just roll a d4 dagger and add in a lot of static damage.
Plus you get some cantrips and some d6s to add to misses/failed Fort saves.
How about Two-handed Fighter 3, Bloodrager(Id Rager(Anger)) 1, Warpriest 1+ with Greater Weapon of the Chosen to double roll and take the highest(that is hopefully a critical threat). Divine Fighting Technique(Lamashtu's Carving) to add twice your strength as a bleed on someone you hit with a standard action attack(which you double rolled). And if you crit, I imagine the bleed would be increased by that as well. Need the bonus feat of human to fit it all in at 5. Weapon Focus from Warpriest, Power Attack from Anger(while raging).
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Lots of people are spitting out good specific builds. Here's some general multiclassing advice: Due to the numerical scaling that is used in pathfinder classes, it's best to take levels in units of 4.
You want to avoid stopping at 5 levels of any class. Level 5 is a bad level. 3/4 and 1/2 BAB characters get no bonus to BAB. Nobody gets any save bonuses.
Best to take levels like 8/4/2 not 9/5.
Dips of 1-4 levels are great for full BAB classes, you can do so as many times as you like without losing any numerical progression. There are 15 full BAB classes, and you can mix and match 1-4 levels of any of them together and have a viable character (Barring alignment restrictions, a few of them are incompatible, so you can really only take 12 on one character).
So if 4 levels gets all you want from a class, stop there. If you really want that level 5 ability, consider going to 8. If you want to dip a 3/4bab class, consider going to 4. If you want to dip a 1/2bab class, consider going to 2.
I suddenly find myself wanting to make a character that takes 2 levels of a class before switching.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Trashmage23 wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Trashmage23 wrote: I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated. What do you want your character to be like? Do you want to be a healer? a blaster? a skill monkey? a shooter? a sniper? some combination of the above?
Do you charge into combat, watch enemies flee before you as they watch their fellows vanish in red mists before your onslaught?
Do you want to ravish the world in your Eldritch Fire?
Do you want to be the one who slips the GM a note, and while the party is still arguing about how to enter the enemy fortress, you come back with a map of the perimeter wall placements, inner passages, a surprisingly lot of detail about the princess's bedchamber, oh, and that's where the McGuffin Artifact is hidden. You got in last night doing magic tricks with a troupe of bards, but you think the party's best bet is to take over a shipment of fruit and vegetables coming in this afternoon... Ah, the famed so good to meet you! I personally dislike stealth characters, mostly because I can't play them correctly. But other than that I just play what's cool. If I was forced to choose something it would be high damage and/or hard to kill. I have a lot of character builds that do high damage and are hard to kill.
I have 2 Goblin character builds: a Monk (sort of) and an Alchemist (mostly). The Monk would work as a Halfling.
I have a Druidzilla build.
I have a Natural Attack person-build or 2 that might serve.
I have a Thunder and Fang (Earthbreaker & Klar) Bull Rush build.
I have a sword and board build.
All of the above builds combine high Damage and high survivability and all multiclass extensively. Some might need adapting.
Please elaborate if you could.
Trashmage23 wrote: Please elaborate if you could. Sure, but I was hoping you could elaborate on what you want.
You don't want to be sneaky.
Do you want to be blasty or fighty?
Do you want to be shooty or beaty?
Do you want to be steady or movey?
Heather 540 wrote: I suddenly find myself wanting to make a character that takes 2 levels of a class before switching. I have a lot of characters that take only single levels in the occasional class, sometimes, 2 levels.
Heather 540 wrote: I suddenly find myself wanting to make a character that takes 2 levels of a class before switching. That is called the Cha Cha Slide. Lol.
Lots of people Cha Cha Slide Paladin for Charisma to saves, as a prime example.
I wrote: I have 2 Goblin character builds: a Monk (sort of) and an Alchemist (mostly). The Monk would work as a Halfling.
I have a Druidzilla build.
I have a Natural Attack person-build or 2 that might serve.
I have a Thunder and Fang (Earthbreaker & Klar) Bull Rush build.
I have a sword and board build.
Goblin Monk: Fighty, beaty, movey.
Goblin Alchemist: Blasty, shooty, steady.
Druidzilla: Fighty, beaty, in principle steady, but practice kinda movey.
Thunder and Fang: fighty, beaty, steady
sword and board: Fighty, beaty, steady, but I could make her movey, I think.
For my Goblin Monk, I take levels in Snakebite Striker Brawler and Unchained Rogue mostly. I dip a level in Arcanist to get Dimensional slide which should help achieve Flanking. He will favor Unarmed Strikes and can take Sap Adept and Knockout Artist to do extra Sneak Attack Damage. He get extra attacks via Snake and Panther Style Feats, so there are a couple levels in MOMS Monk in there. He locks in Sneak Attack Damage mostly through the Canny Tumble Feat. My application of that is technically legal. His name is Bonzai!!
My Goblin Alchemist is Godfrey Gloop, the Grappling Goblin Grenadier Gunslinger! Exploding bullets are cool.
The Druidzilla only takes enough levels in Druid to get Wildshape. In principle, most of the rest of the levels would be in Warpriest. The build calls for a level in Brawler at least, a level in White Haired Witch, and I was thinking maybe a level or 2 in Barbarian would work well. Maybe some Alchemist? just a thought. The idea is that certain Animals can get a lot of Natural Attacks, and I can think of ways to get a few more. Then you do Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular Damage, which then scales up because you are Size Huge by level 8. Getting the right feats at the right times was difficult to work out, and getting it to fit your GM's requirements will be a challenge. But the DPR will be astounding. I initially thought of this as a Full Attack Build, but I like Allosauruses, and the Allosaurus has Grab, Rake, and Pounce, and that makes it a Charging Build. This is that one where your opponents will evaporate in red mists as you charge into them.
The Thunder and Fang Build uses Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist to get extra attacks and control the battlefield. I was thinking it would be cool to work in Broken Wing Gambit. He'll take levels in Inquisitor. I'm thinking since Alchemal Silver doesn't take any damage penalty with a Blunt Weapon, a Silver Earthbreaker is in order. His name just has to be Maxwell: Father Maxwell McKenzie.
The sword-and-board user uses a Split Blade Sword. I like the idea of dipping a level in Living Monolith to use Enlarge Person as a Swift Action, but you said no Prestige Classes, but I suspect your GM just might allow a single level in a single Prestige Class and that he meant no Prestige Class Builds, not exactly no levels in any Prestige Classes at all. Anyway, doesn't hurt to ask.
1-3. Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter
4-7. Underground Chemist UnRogue
8-9. Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter
10-X. Vivisectionist Alchemist
So you get Bombs from Rogue that deal damage equal to your Sneak Attack... Vivisectionist gives up Bombs for Sneak Attack that stacks with the Rogue's Sneak Attack. Lol.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: For my Goblin Monk, I take levels in Snakebite Striker Brawler and Unchained Rogue mostly. I dip a level in Arcanist to get Dimensional slide which should help achieve Flanking. He will favor Unarmed Strikes and can take Sap Adept and Knockout Artist to do extra Sneak Attack Damage. He get extra attacks via Snake and Panther Style Feats, so there are a couple levels in MOMS Monk in there. He locks in Sneak Attack Damage mostly through the Canny Tumble Feat. My application of that is technically legal. His name is Bonzai!!
My Goblin Alchemist is Godfrey Gloop, the Grappling Goblin Grenadier Gunslinger! Exploding bullets are cool.
The Druidzilla only takes enough levels in Druid to get Wildshape. In principle, most of the rest of the levels would be in Warpriest. The build calls for a level in Brawler at least, a level in White Haired Witch, and I was thinking maybe a level or 2 in Barbarian would work well. Maybe some Alchemist? just a thought. The idea is that certain Animals can get a lot of Natural Attacks, and I can think of ways to get a few more. Then you do Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular Damage, which then scales up because you are Size Huge by level 8. Getting the right feats at the right times was difficult to work out, and getting it to fit your GM's requirements will be a challenge. But the DPR will be astounding. I initially thought of this as a Full Attack Build, but I like Allosauruses, and the Allosaurus has Grab, Rake, and Pounce, and that makes it a Charging Build. This is that one where your opponents will evaporate in red mists as you charge into them.
The Thunder and Fang Build uses Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist to get extra attacks and control the battlefield. I was thinking it would be cool to work in Broken Wing Gambit. He'll take levels in Inquisitor. I'm thinking since Alchemal Silver doesn't take any damage penalty with a Blunt Weapon, a Silver Earthbreaker is in order. His name just has to be Maxwell: Father...
They were not kidding about your builds. That blender in the form of a druid seems extremely interesting, as well as the crack of thunder. Not to say the others aren't but.
The druidzilla reminds me a bit of my own natural weapon monster.
4 levels of Were-Touched Shifter using Deinonychus aspect. 3 levels of White-Haired Witch. Then minimum 2 levels of Armored Hulk Barbarian with either Lesser Fiend or Lesser Beast rage power, depending on GM calling of Shifter Claws after that 4th level of Shifter.
Chaos Reigns for Slam Attack, Mutated Shape for Tail Sting. Tentacle Cloak for tentacle attack, Dread Armor enhancement for wing attacks. And Helm of the Mammoth Lord for Gore attack depending on which rage power gets taken.
Half-Orc
Sacred Tattooes and Fate's Favored, or Ferocity, your choice.
Fey Foundling, because reasons.
Warrior Poet (4+ levels) for Resolve/Unconquerable Resolve and Weapon Finesse with fun weapons and some Charisma to AC when we're naked.
Hospitaler Paladin (8+ levels) for Charisma to saves, Mercy/Greater Mercy/Ultimate Mercy, Channel, Aura of Resolve/Ultimate Resolve, blah blah blah.
Unbreakable Fighter (1+ levels) for Endurance and Diehard, pick up Fast Healer.
Take your pick of the order in which you take the levels... maybe something like:
1. Warrior Poet Samurai
2-3. Hospitaler Paladin
4. Unbreakable Fighter
5-7. Warrior Poet Samurai
8-13. Hospitaler Paladin
14+???
1. Fey Foundling
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
4. Endurance
4. Diehard
5. Fast Healer
7. Unconquerable Resolve
9. Greater Mercy
11. Ultimate Mercy
13. Ultimate Resolve
BAB +13
Base saves +12/+3/+7
Trashmage23 wrote: Not to say the others aren't but. But narrowing down your choices is what we want for you.
Heather540 wrote: The druidzilla reminds me a bit of my own natural weapon monster. We were just talking about Druidzilla builds.
Half Elf, Arcane Training
A Half Elf with Arcane Training picks an Arcane Spellcasting Class, and she can use Magic Wands as if she had a level in that class. When you turn into a huge dinosaur and start tearing up the battlefield, you are going to draw a lot of attacks, so you got to wear armor. The Wild Enchantment is a +3 equivalent, but you are likely to have some favorite shapes to take, so I figure you can get suits of Barding made for you in your favorite Animal Forms. And with Arcane Training, you can dress yourself in 1 round with a Wand of Swift Girding.
1Brawler1: Unarmed 1d6, Martial Flexibility, Martial Cunning, Martial Training, Improved Grapple, BAB+1
2B1D1: Nature’s Bond, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy
3B1D2: Weapon Focus Grapple, Woodland Stride, BAB+2
4B1D3: Level 2 Druid Spells, Trackless Step, BAB+3
5B1D4: Natural Spell (or Wild Speech), Wildshape, Resist Nature’s Lure, BAB+4
I like the Deinonychus: 2 Claws, Bite, and 2 Talons. The Wildspeech Feat lets you talk while Wildshaped, including using the Verbal Components of Spells. But there might be spells you want to cast where that won't be good enough. But if you don't take Wild Speech, you can't talk while Wildshaped, and that will present a roleplaying challenge.
6B1D4Warpriest1: Sacred Weapon 1d6, Weapon focus Unarmed Strikes, Lesser Blessing of Destruction, Level 1 Spells
If you select a deity that favors Natural Attacks, you don't need to take Weapon Focus to get Sacred Weapon Damage. You can only take the Blessings that match your Deity's Domains. The only Golorion Deity that has a Favored Natural Weapon (Bite) and Grants the Domain of Destruction is Dahak the Evil Dragon god of Destruction. You can be a Chaotic Neutral Druidzilla and worship this god, but we are not talking about a hairy-armpit, fat, Earth-Momma, hippy-chic druid anymore. I envision my Druidzilla as worshipping like a volcano god or something.
I intend to take Martial Versatility later, and for reasons it makes sense to take Weapon Focus Unarmed.
7B1D4W2: Fervor 1d6, Shaping Focus, Wildshape 2/day, Large and Tiny animals, Small Elementals, BAB+5
I like the Megaraptor, like the Deinonychus, but Size Large. A classic choice is the Giant Octopus 8 Tentacle Attacks all with Grab and Constrict and a Bite. You might notice I have this character already took Improved Grapple, and all those Tentacles and Grapples will be able to do Sacred Weapon Damage, too, Sized up to Large. If you acquire a Wand of Strong Jaw or maybe a Wondrous Item that lets you put Strong Jaw on yourself like 1-3/day, you also get a 2 spot Virtual Size Increase. The idea here is lots of high Damage attacks.
Check with your GM, but the description of Fervor says you can use it to cast any Cleric Spell on yourself as a Swift Action, and Some Druid Spells are also Cleric Spells, such as Bull Strength and Lesser Restoration. I mention Lesser Restoration because one possibility since your GM wants to emphasize multiclassing would be to dip 2 levels in Barbarian and take Lesser Fiend Totem for a Gore Attack on top of the others. Remember that +4 Strength from Barbarian Rage gives you a +2 Attack and Damage on all your attacks: Claws, Talons, Bites, Tentacles, and Gore. After coming down from your Rage you are Fatigued, but if you can cast Lesser Restoration on yourself as a Swift Action, then no problem! Also, Rage stacks with Bull Strength.
You might take Lesser Beast Totem instead of Lesser Fiend Totem, giving you 2 Claw Attacks instead of 1 Gore Attack for your Rage Power. If you do that, you wouldn't be favoring the Megaraptor anymore, but probably the Arsinotherium, a rhinoceros-like Ice Age Megafauna with a devastating Gore Attack, but not Claws. But you will have Claws from your Rage Power. Take Animal Fury, too, and get a Bite as well.
8B1D4W3: Martial Versatility Weapon Focus, Wild Shape 3/day: Huge Animals, Medium Elementals, Medium Plants, BAB+6
So, I'm thinking Allosaurus, 2 Claws and a Bite, Gore from a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, an Animal Mask or maybe work in those Barbarian Levels. Allosaurs have Pounce and Rake and Grab that goes with their Bite. So I put Armor Spikes on your Barding. You do Armor Spike Damage with every successful Grapple Attack, and you get a free Grapple with every Bite. And, since you took Weapon Focus Unarmed and Martial Versatility Weapon Focus, you can apply Weapon Focus, and therefore Sacred Weapon Damage on all the Weapons in the same Weapon Group as Unarmed Strike. Unarmed Strike is in the Natural Weapon Group, but it is also in the Close Weapon Group, and so are Armor Spikes, so they inflict Sacred Weapon Damage, too, and they also benefit from things like your Strength Mod.
9B1D4W3Witch1: White Hair, Greater Grapple
White Hair is another Natural Attack to add to your Full Attack. It also gets a Free Grapple with every hit, and so you get another chance to do Armor Spike Damage.
10B1D4W4H1: Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1, Destruction +2, Level 2 Cleric Spells, BAB+7
11B1D4W5H1: Sacred Weapon 1d8, Fervor 2d6, Hamatula Strike
So, with Sacred Weapon 1d8 for all your Natural Weapons and your Armor Spikes, assumes a Size Medium Warpriest, but you are Size Huge, so 1d8 becomes 3d6. If you can work out a way to put Strong Jaw on yourself--won't work for your Armor Spikes, sadly--3d6 becomes 6D6 for your Bite, your Gore, your Hair, your 2 Claws, and your 2 Talons (on your Rake Attack only). I guess an alternative to Strong Jaw would be an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Impact Enchantment or the Improved Natural Attack Feat for each of your Natural Attacks. Each of those can be an expensive option, too, though, and they only give you a 1-spot Virtual Size Increase instead of Strong Jaw's 2: 4d6 instead of 6d6.
With Hamatula Strike, every time you do damage with a piercing weapon such as your Gore and your Bite, you get a Free Grapple, so more Armor Spike Damage.
12B1D4W6H1: Weapon Versatility, BAB+8
With Weapon Versatility, you can make your weapons do Piercing, Slashing, or Bludgeoning Damage as you see Fit, so now your Claws can do Piercing Damage and benefit from Hamatula Strike as well.
A problem with the build as I just presented it is that you are not allowed to ever let your character exceed a ratio of 2:1 between your highest level class and your other classes, and at level 5, I'd have you be a level 1 Brawler/Level 4 Druid.
The problem here is that the class is really meant to come online via Wildshape. You can't take most of the Feats I'd have you take until after Wildshape or after your BAB gets to +6 and higher.
So I guess I'd have you take a level or 2 in Warpriest earlier:
1Brawler1
2B1Druid1
3B1D2
4B1D2Warpriest1
5B1D3W1: Feat
If you the take your next level in Druid, you get Wildshape and the ratio of Druid: other classes is now 4:2 = 2:1, so that is hopefully okay. And now you have to retrain to Wild Speech or Natural Spell at level 6 and Shaping Focus at Level 7, with throws things off, but your character will still be fairly terrifying in melee.
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Trashmage23 wrote: I'm currently in a campaign that requires we make a character with a high amount of multiclassing, by which I mean 2/1 as a minimum. I've in all honesty never made a character with more than a level or two in another class. So any advice is very much appreciated. Main advice: Decide what you want to play. Not which class or class combination, but rather what you want your character to be able to do. The people in this thread are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, but that's not really constructive. There're thousands of possible builds.
The rules make dedicated spellcasters and many other concepts hard to do, but there's still plenty of different paths to go. Do you want melee or ranged combat? If melee, dex- or strength based (or maybe even charisma based)? Manufactured weapon, unarmed, or natural attack? Do you want magical abilities or not - spellcasting, alchemy, supernatural/spell-like abilities, or little or no magic? Any specific abilities you'd like your character to have, like rage or polymorphing? Any such stuff you don't want?
Ask your GM whether they're using Fractional Base Bonuses, and if no, plead for them to do so.
gnoams wrote: Due to the numerical scaling that is used in pathfinder classes, it's best to take levels in units of 4.
You want to avoid stopping at 5 levels of any class. Level 5 is a bad level. 3/4 and 1/2 BAB characters get no bonus to BAB. Nobody gets any save bonuses.
First, this ignores the possibility of Fractional Base Bonuses from Unchained being used, and second, there're classes/archetypes where 5 levels are just the right amount. Like Gunslinger.
VoodistMonk wrote: Half-Orc
Sacred Tattooes and Fate's Favored, or Ferocity, your choice.
Fey Foundling, because reasons.
Warrior Poet (4+ levels) for Resolve/Unconquerable Resolve and Weapon Finesse with fun weapons and some Charisma to AC when we're naked.
Hospitaler Paladin (8+ levels) for Charisma to saves, Mercy/Greater Mercy/Ultimate Mercy, Channel, Aura of Resolve/Ultimate Resolve, blah blah blah.
Unbreakable Fighter (1+ levels) for Endurance and Diehard, pick up Fast Healer.
Take your pick of the order in which you take the levels... maybe something like:
1. Warrior Poet Samurai
2-3. Hospitaler Paladin
4. Unbreakable Fighter
5-7. Warrior Poet Samurai
8-13. Hospitaler Paladin
14+???
1. Fey Foundling
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
4. Endurance
4. Diehard
5. Fast Healer
7. Unconquerable Resolve
9. Greater Mercy
11. Ultimate Mercy
13. Ultimate Resolve
BAB +13
Base saves +12/+3/+7
I like original Multiclass build, but I don't get the point of this build? In fact I don't get the point of Fast Healer in the build - unless you have a very high PB, this guy would be MAD as hell. It looks like it would be better to double up on Unconquerable Resolve or maybe even get Chain Challenge to regain more use of Resolve. In comparison, 1-2 more hp per healing does not looks like it's worth it.
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: Heather 540 wrote: I suddenly find myself wanting to make a character that takes 2 levels of a class before switching. I have a lot of characters that take only single levels in the occasional class, sometimes, 2 levels. I expect you are taking full bab classes, which as I said, 1-4 levels of full bab classes make great dips. Multiclassing full bab class gives you highly inflated saves. With any other classes though, 2 levels gives you 1/2bab, and 1 level gives you 0bab. If you're multiclassing a lot, you're not going to be relying on spells, so bab is going to be important.
Derklord wrote:
Ask your GM whether they're using Fractional Base Bonuses, and if no, plead for them to do so.
gnoams wrote: Due to the numerical scaling that is used in pathfinder classes, it's best to take levels in units of 4.
You want to avoid stopping at 5 levels of any class. Level 5 is a bad level. 3/4 and 1/2 BAB characters get no bonus to BAB. Nobody gets any save bonuses.
First, this ignores the possibility of Fractional Base Bonuses from Unchained being used, and second, there're classes/archetypes where 5 levels are just the right amount. Like Gunslinger. Yes, this is advice for the base game. The op did not mention said optional rules, and I've never playing in a game that used them, so I am ignoring those optional rules. Given the choice, I wouldn't want to use that optional rule. Fractional bonuses removes the one good benefit of multiclassing, which is better saves.
The 5th level ability of many classes is often tempting. That is because 5th level gives poor to no numerical bonuses, so the ability at that level is something good to make up for it. I'm giving general advice here to realize that you are giving up save progression (and bab if not a full bab class) for stopping at level 5. Again, if you want that level 5 ability, consider going to 8 since you already paid the bab and saves price. Sometimes the answer will be that the 5th level ability is worth the +0 to saves.
gnoams wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Heather 540 wrote: I suddenly find myself wanting to make a character that takes 2 levels of a class before switching. I have a lot of characters that take only single levels in the occasional class, sometimes, 2 levels. I expect you are taking full bab classes, which as I said, 1-4 levels of full bab classes make great dips. Not necessarily. Sometimes any of a lot of classes I see just what I want from taking 1 or 2 levels. With my Goblin Monk, the build calls for 1 level in Arcanist because I like Dimensional Slide, for example.
Some of my builds call for 1 or 2 levels in Cavalier, Brawler, or Ranger, and those are full BAB classes. But the reason I'm doing it has little to do with BAB, but rather because I just have to have that Order Ability or Bonus Feat.
gnoams wrote: Multiclassing full bab class gives you highly inflated saves. Multiclassing does, but with few exceptions if you want to pump up your Will Save Bonus, Full BAB dips are not actually the way to go.
gnoams wrote: With any other classes though, 2 levels gives you 1/2bab, and 1 level gives you 0bab. If you're multiclassing a lot, you're not going to be relying on spells, so bab is going to be important. All that said, it is good to warn a player to mind your BAB, and don't multiclass willynilly: have a reason for doing what you're doing.
Derklord wrote: Main advice: Decide what you want to play. Not which class or class combination, but rather what you want your character to be able to do. That. Do that. That's just what I was advising, too.
DthKnell, you are correct... Fast Healer probably isn't worth it without some reason to heavily invest in Con. The premise of the build is to pretty much be unkillable, so Con is necessary, but only amounts to a few extra HP per healing.
VoodistMonk wrote: DthKnell, you are correct... Fast Healer probably isn't worth it without some reason to heavily invest in Con. The premise of the build is to pretty much be unkillable, so Con is necessary, but only amounts to a few extra HP per healing. Waitaminute, how does the Fast Healer Feat interact with say Infernal Healing or the Inquisitor's Judgement of Healing? It just says, "when you regain hit points through magical healing, you gain additional hit points. If you have Fast Healing, does that mean you are regaining hit points every round? It looks that way to me: it looks like you regain additional hp per every instance of healing, and I think each round you have Fast Healing is a separate instance.
Something else I noticed is that the prerequisites for Fast Healer are the same as the Prerequisites for Stalwart, which gives you DR instead of AC when you use Combat Expertise. Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor or Slumbering Full Plate. So we have a high AC, DR, and Fast Healing augmented by the Fast Healer Feat?
I think it might be worth it.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: VoodistMonk wrote: DthKnell, you are correct... Fast Healer probably isn't worth it without some reason to heavily invest in Con. The premise of the build is to pretty much be unkillable, so Con is necessary, but only amounts to a few extra HP per healing. Waitaminute, how does the Fast Healer Feat interact with say Infernal Healing or the Inquisitor's Judgement of Healing? It just says, "when you regain hit points through magical healing, you gain additional hit points. If you have Fast Healing, does that mean you are regaining hit points every round? It looks that way to me: it looks like you regain additional hp per every instance of healing, and I think each round you have Fast Healing is a separate instance.
Something else I noticed is that the prerequisites for Fast Healer are the same as the Prerequisites for Stalwart, which gives you DR instead of AC when you use Combat Expertise. Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor or Slumbering Full Plate. So we have a high AC, DR, and Fast Healing augmented by the Fast Healer Feat?
I think it might be worth it. This is prestty much how it works yes, though I know there has been some debate regarding the source of Fast Healing, that is Magical or natural/extraordinary. Fast Healing would work with the former only given the wording of the Feat.
I think Fast Healer would be worth it on a PC that can focus on Con and another stat like Strenght or Dex. Spelleater Bloodrager would be a nice way of leveraging it for instance. In fact, I think a single lvl of Bloodrager with a Valet Familiar, another of Unbreakable Fighter for the prereqs then the rest into Skald going for Amplified Rage to boost your Fast Healing through the roof could be a fun build. Now if only we could get claws and scent into that mix, we would get a very interesting take on Golarion's Wolverine!
I did a bloorager/oracle/fighter like that for pfs. The oracle level was so I could dump dex and get a higher con to boost the fast healing. By level 8 she had a 26 con while raging, giving her fast healing 5, and a 24 strength for standard barbarian damage output.
Trashmage23 wrote: That blender in the form of a druid seems extremely interesting, as well as the crack of thunder. Not to say the others aren't but. This is my Thunder and Fang build. Meet Father Maxwell McKenzie.
Half Orc: Fate's Favored, Sacred Tatoos, Shaman's Apprentice, Trait
Sacred Tattoos grants a +1 Luck Bonus on all Saving Throws. Fate's Favored grants an additional +1 to any luck Bonus, so this character starts out with a +2 Luck Bonus on all Saving Throws at Level 0.
Shaman's Apprentice grants the Endurance Feat, which allows you to sleep in Medium Armor. Few things make my skin crawl more than that evil gleam in the GM's eye when he asks, "Are you sleeping in your armor?" The Slumbering Armor Modification lets your Heavy Armor be treated as Light when it comes to sleeping in it.
1Fighter1: Weapon Focus Klar, 2 Weapon, BAB+1
2F1Ranger1 Freebooter's Bane, BAB+2
Freebooter is my favorite Ranger Archtype. Instead of a Favored Enemy, you get Freebooter's Bane. As a Move Action, you can mark any one opponent for the whole party to get +1 Attack and Damage against.
Even Level 1 Rangers can use Ranger Wands, including Cure Light Wounds, so you can be one of the party's healers. In addition, there is the Lead blades spell, which lets all your weapons inflict damage as if you were 1 Size larger, which doesn't affect the Klar, but your 2d6 Earthbreaker will inflict 3d6.
3F2R1: Weapon Focus Earthbreaker, Thunder and Fang, BAB+3
I like weapons made of exotic materials to bypass monsters' DR. Since Alchemal Silver Bludgeoning Weapons do not take any Damage penalty, I like Alchemal Silver Earthbreakers. Now Maxwell has a Silver Hammer!
4F2R1Inquisitor1: Level 1 Spells, Domain, Judgement 1/day, Monster Lore, Stern Gaze
Normally, I'd want to take Iron Will and dip a level in Living Monolith so I cold Enlarge Person as a Swift Action so that the Earthbreaker does 4d6 and the Klar does 1d8, but you said your GM has outlawed Prestige Classes, so you could make your Domain the Growth Subdomain of Plant, which also lets you Enlarge Person. It's not nearly as nice, though: limited Duration.
5F2R1I2: Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, Tracking, Combat Reflexes, BAB+4
6F2R1I3: Solo Tactics, Broken Wing Gambit, BAB+5
Broken Wing Gambit is a controversial Feat. I like to use BWG to get an Attack of Opportunity (almost) whenever I'm attacked. People don't like this, though, because,
Broken Wing Gambit wrote: it provokes attacks of opportunity from your allies who have this feat. I maintain, though that you get an AoO, too, because you count as your own ally.
FAQ, Core Rulebook, GM Rules, Ally wrote: You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies." A lot of people think it "would make no sense or be impossible" for you to count as your own ally with respect to BWG because is a Teamwork Feat, and Teamwork Feats definitionally require allies. and indeed even Mark Seifter opined this to be so:
Mark quoting Teamwork Feats wrote: these feats require an ally who also possesses the feat And he even put this assumption in the Pathfinder Unchained optional rules system. But Mark Seifter and many others seem to have failed to realize that that the rules for Teamwork Feats don't actually say that.
Teamwork Feats wrote: In most cases, these feats require an ally who also possesses the feat "In most cases" means not in every case. That means that the simple fact that BWG is a Teamwork Feat cannot be used as justification to invoke the makes-no-sense-or-be-impossible clause. Mark Seifter is a game designer, and his opinion should carry weight, but unless he's making an Official Rules Post, and he wasn't, than his opinion is just opinion, and opinion is poor evidence. Don't believe me? then believe Mark:
Mark Seifter Designer wrote: I am actually happy to give my take on rules questions. But I've mentioned several times before that it's always just my opinion and holds no official weight. And while he maintained his opinion when writing Pathfinder Unchained, Pathfinder Unchained is an Optional Rules System, if your GM is not playing with PU, is should bear no relevance to how your GM runs his campaign.
And even if your GM rules against RAW vis a vis Broken Wing Gambit, it barely matters because
7F2R1I4: Judgement 2/day, Level 2 Spells, Paired Opportunist, BAB+6
The very next level I'm having you take Paired Opportunist. Since you already have the Solo Tactics Class Ability, you should now be able to use Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunist as if you and all your allies have Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunist. And failing that, your character at this point has access to Level 2 Inquisitor Spells including the Shared Training Spell, which gives Allies one of your Teamwork Feats, so you will then HAVE allies with Broken Wing Gambit, and you get to use Paired Opportunist as if you and all your allies have it. So if any of you get attacked, ALL of you get Attacks of Opportunity.
I have gone to great lengths to describe the controversy to you so you understand the debate you are entering into if you play a character that uses Broken Wing Gambit.
8F2R1I5: Bane, Discern Lies
9F2R2I5: Shield Slam, Power Attack, BAB+7
10F3R2I5: Armored Juggernaut, BAB+8
11F4R2I5: Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, BAB+9
A Klar is a Shield, and with Shield Slam, you get a free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash. With Greater Bull Rush, all your allies get an Attack of Opportunity with every Bull Rush. With Paired Opportunist, so do you. Remember that with Paired Opportunist, you get to make Attacks of Opportunity as if you and all your allies have PO.
It is somewhat less than clear whether Bull Rushing through Shield Slam benefits from the +4 that IBR and GBR grant. I think so, because those Feats grant say they grant bonuses to all Bull Rush Attempts, not just ones taken on their own through a Standard Action Attack, but it has been argued that the +4 would not apply because the Shield Slam Bull Rush utilizes the same Attack Roll from the Shield Bash for the Combat Maneuver Check, and since the 2 Feats do not apply their bonuses to regular attack rolls, they don't apply to Shield Slam. I think the ability to generate Attacks of Opportunity to you and all your allies with every Shield Bash make it worthwhile even if you don't get the +4, but this is another thing to check with your GM about.
12F4R2I6: Harder They Fall, BAB+10
This is another Teamwork Feat. If your allies Aid Another you, you may make Bull Rush (or Trip) attacks against creatures that are more than 1 Size bigger than you where normally you can't.
Since this character requires a high ST, Dex, and Wisdom, and probably should have high Con and CH as well, this definitely qualifies as a MAD build, and those are considered bad. But this character build will give you a high AC, 3 good Saves, and lots of high damage melee attacks.
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