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I know a lot of us are pushing for a better Class, but not all of us see the changes in the same way.
Of all the portions of the Magus you want to see changed, what are your "top 3" must fix items. I expect most people will have Striking Spell in their top 3, but curious where.
What do you think is the "must change" portions of the Class? Even if you don't want specific mechanics changed, you can express a feeling or overall shift you'd like to see.
Just thought it might be interesting to see what people have prioritize when they imagine the final version of the Class.
My 3 would be:
1. More even 50/50 of the Martial/Magic power distribution
2. More access to Spells
3. Striking Spell to lose critical mechanic and gain consistency mechanic
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1- Improve spellstrike, preferably its action economy or accuracy (really a fan of leaving foes flat-footed against the spell attack)
2- give the Magus more slots. I favor the Wave spell progression that has been floating around.
3- rework synthesis so that they mean more
4 - more focus spell options
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#1: kill the critical mechanic of Striking Spell and add the fortune trait to it 100% kill crit fishing multi-round shenanigans! With that gone you can increase your spell accuracy.
#2 More spells [focus and normal] including more 1 action ones. Additionally, get rid of 4 slots, having at least 1 spell per level instead of levels vanishing.
#3 Fine a way to allow some variety of action in Striking Spell rounds. This can be more 1 action spells, Sliding type actions for all synthesizes or something similar. I'd rather not be locked into a immobile play style if I want to use the signature ability.
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1- Anything to make the Magus actually be a 50/50 and not a 75/25 martial/magic split. Especially through having more spell slots (like the Wave progression), even if it comes at the cost of a nerf to the martial side of things.
2- No more crit fishing. Reliability is far better than sporadic damage spikes.
3- A way to increase spell accuracy somewhat. Magic accuracy is pretty bad even on full casters as is, and Magus is no full caster. However, it should probably be something tied to Spellstrike only, as it would make no sense for the Magus to be a better caster than a specialist.
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1- Rework Striking Spell into Spell Combat (current mechanic with few tweaks) and Spellstrike (more or less what the AoA NPC has) to play around holding spell charges within the action economy. (Maybe inspired by what I wrote in the "My case for Spell Combat" thread if it's actually good)
2- More martial inspired feats to do other things (Riving Strike, Rend Magical Defenses, Riposting Spellstrike, more reactions to choose from if spellstrike/holding a charge after a missed one requires a reaction so it feels like we're making a choice...)
3- Some more spells (focus and normal) the wave progression seems like a good compromise.
4- Replace martial based natural upgrade of the chassis (specialization etc) by magic flavored ones like baking Energized Strike in at level 7 instead of weapon specialization.
(1) Striking Spell should be significantly better than not using Striking Spell on a regular basis. Font of Striking Spell (slots that can only be used with striking spell) or something similar would help with the feelbad problem of preparing Strikable spells over objectively better alternatives for slots, but I’d like cantrip options to be effective as well.
(2) Spell Combat, or a mechanism to efficiently combine non-attack spells into attacks
(3) Want to be able to buy into a 2nd synthesis
That first idea if pretty good.
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1: Striking Spell is just sooo bad. It feels clunky and akward and seems about 1/2-1 action too many to play nicely with the 3 action system.
2: Spell Accuracy - can't hit the broad side of a barn, and it gets worse as you level up. yuck.
3: Synthesis need some work. Because of problem 1 Slide is just so much better than the other options. The feat at 10 to improve the Synthesis looks like it could easily be a normal progression - like a Champion's Reaction improves without feats.
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1. I want the mechanics to incentivize cantrip casting as often as practical, with slotted spells saved for Nova rounds. I want there to be more rounds than not that you want to use your base ability to cast a cantrip, as opposed to swinging your sword more.
2. I want more cantrips. Including Mystic Bolt as a focus cantrip.
Everything else everyone else already hit, so I'll just say "yes please."
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#3 Fine a way to allow some variety of action in Striking Spell rounds. This can be more 1 action spells, Sliding type actions for all synthesizes or something similar. I'd rather not be locked into a immobile play style if I want to use the signature ability.
A nice idea I've seen being floated around is to allow every Magus to Step as part of Striking Spell, with each synthesis adding another action you can choose to do instead, like Stride for Slide Casting, Reload for Shooting Star and a Raise a Shield equivalent for Sustaining Steel.
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#3 Fine a way to allow some variety of action in Striking Spell rounds. This can be more 1 action spells, Sliding type actions for all synthesizes or something similar. I'd rather not be locked into a immobile play style if I want to use the signature ability.A nice idea I've seen being floated around is to allow every Magus to Step as part of Striking Spell, with each synthesis adding another action you can choose to do instead, like Stride for Slide Casting, Reload for Shooting Star and a Raise a Shield equivalent for Sustaining Steel.
I really like Reload as an incentive for Shooting Star, as it creates a major break between Eldritch Archers and Shooting Star Magus. You could use a bow, but then you get less benefit than a crossbow. And my read is that you can't use crossbows at all with Eldritch Archer.
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I really like Reload as an incentive for Shooting Star, as it creates a major break between Eldritch Archers and Shooting Star Magus. You could use a bow, but then you get less benefit than a crossbow. And my read is that you can't use crossbows at all with Eldritch Archer.#3 Fine a way to allow some variety of action in Striking Spell rounds. This can be more 1 action spells, Sliding type actions for all synthesizes or something similar. I'd rather not be locked into a immobile play style if I want to use the signature ability.A nice idea I've seen being floated around is to allow every Magus to Step as part of Striking Spell, with each synthesis adding another action you can choose to do instead, like Stride for Slide Casting, Reload for Shooting Star and a Raise a Shield equivalent for Sustaining Steel.
Could also add draw a weapon for Shooting Star, so throwing characters can pull out another throwing weapon to use.
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I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
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1. Striking Spell to work similar to Channel Smite, one hit for both spell and strike damage. It shouldn't take more two actions to use, so you can move or do something different every turn.
2. Charisma or Wisdom casting options similar to Sorcerer? Primal Magus, Divine Magus?
3. More Synthesessesisess..es. Tanky magus? Two-weapon magus? Unarmed magus to be its own synthesis? Maybe make them the tank spec? (Shtick: no manipulate/concentrate traits when casting a spell through your body, being able to apply weapon runes to your FACE; headbutts!)
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I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
You know, I think your idea kind of touches on mine that syntheses should be more unique and suport different playstyles.
I could totally get behind a broader Magus that had, I don't know, Spell Combat as its main feature and then we had the self-buffing Magus and super spellstriker Magus as syntheses, rather than several ways to make a clunky ability work.
To me, slide casting, sustaining steel and shooting star, although providing interesting benefits read and play more like they want to be stances akin to a monks', than subclasses.
Could also add draw a weapon for Shooting Star, so throwing characters can pull out another throwing weapon to use.I really like Reload as an incentive for Shooting Star, as it creates a major break between Eldritch Archers and Shooting Star Magus. You could use a bow, but then you get less benefit than a crossbow. And my read is that you can't use crossbows at all with Eldritch Archer.#3 Fine a way to allow some variety of action in Striking Spell rounds. This can be more 1 action spells, Sliding type actions for all synthesizes or something similar. I'd rather not be locked into a immobile play style if I want to use the signature ability.A nice idea I've seen being floated around is to allow every Magus to Step as part of Striking Spell, with each synthesis adding another action you can choose to do instead, like Stride for Slide Casting, Reload for Shooting Star and a Raise a Shield equivalent for Sustaining Steel.
'After using Cast a Spell affected by Striking Spell, Interact to reload or draw a weapon.'
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Oddly for me my biggest problem is the opposite: it feels like Magus is more viable right now when you just ignore that Striking Spell exists and start combat off with a Haste and then whack at things with a 2-hander, then step back and fireball when there’s a crowd packed together.I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
Well, Sustaining Steel feels fine ignoring it for damage spells: using message to get free temp hp and healing and then making 2 strikes works well.
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Oddly for me my biggest problem is the opposite: it feels like Magus is more viable right now when you just ignore that Striking Spell exists and start combat off with a Haste and then whack at things with a 2-hander, then step back and fireball when there’s a crowd packed together.I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
But that's just a Fighter MCD Wizard...
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Oddly for me my biggest problem is the opposite: it feels like Magus is more viable right now when you just ignore that Striking Spell exists and start combat off with a Haste and then whack at things with a 2-hander, then step back and fireball when there’s a crowd packed together.I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
These were also my experiences.
During my playthroughs, I often wondered if it woundn't be better to just save those slots for buffing and AOE spells and just keep Striking.
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But that's just a Fighter MCD Wizard...Oddly for me my biggest problem is the opposite: it feels like Magus is more viable right now when you just ignore that Striking Spell exists and start combat off with a Haste and then whack at things with a 2-hander, then step back and fireball when there’s a crowd packed together.I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
Well, to be fair, a Fighter MCD Wizard has WAY more spells to pull that off with...
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You can "lit it up" only for about 4 levels until wizard and others get master Spellcasting and still have a slight modifier edge on you. And more spells.
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To me, the way I would want to play a magus is throw a big buff on for the 4 most important combats in a day, then fight in melee with a 2h weapon and just cast "shield" a bunch.
I feel like a magic warrior, but I want to stay far, far away from the "devish dancing finesse scimitar free metamagic on shocking grasp" cookie cutter magus from PF1.
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To me, the way I would want to play a magus is throw a big buff on for the 4 most important combats in a day, then fight in melee with a 2h weapon and just cast "shield" a bunch.
I feel like a magic warrior, but I want to stay far, far away from the "devish dancing finesse scimitar free metamagic on shocking grasp" cookie cutter magus from PF1.
I want this and the flip side, using your magic to disable your enemies for yourself and allies and taking advantage of the circumstances you create with decent weapon damage and weaknesses.
If it were possible to start somewhere in the middle and allow Magi to lean in each of these (and other directions of comparable magnitude) with choices, I’d be singing.
To me, the way I would want to play a magus is throw a big buff on for the 4 most important combats in a day, then fight in melee with a 2h weapon and just cast "shield" a bunch.
I feel like a magic warrior, but I want to stay far, far away from the "devish dancing finesse scimitar free metamagic on shocking grasp" cookie cutter magus from PF1.
I'd be totally fine if both approaches were viable.
Although, personally, I think the style of play you are describing harkens more to a potential Eldritch Knight archetype while the Magus should be about spellstriking, I could also be comfortable with spellstrike being a feat chain on a Magus that has a broader concept. Maybe starting with something akin to Spell Combat that lets you fight and cast more efficiently and without the imbuing aspect, then unlocking the Svatalfar Killer's version at level 2 and growing to something like the AoA NPC's at level 6.
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For me, number 1 is seeing Spellstrike adjusted to improve reliability and making Spellstriking with Cantrips feel like a better idea (it's literally part of the class' writeup, after all but isn't very good in practice).
Number 2 is seeing the Magus gain more ways to interact with combat that aren't just Spellstrike. Pretty much every martial in the game has unique combat activities that you can leverage in battle, if the Magus had more of them, you'd feel a lot less like you live or die on whether or not you successfully discharge your big spell.
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1) Adding to the chorus of "Improve Spellstrike". Make it more reliable, make it more efficient, but overall make it fun to use. A Rogue feels good when they get off a Sneak Attack. A Monk feels good when they use Flurry of Blows. Spellstrike/Spell Combat/Whatever it becomes should feel first and foremost fun.
2) Also adding to the chorus of "More spell slots". Magus should not feel like it needs to MCD into a pure caster to have a usable number of spell slots. Maybe 2/lv, maybe "wave progression" as it's called, maybe just copy the number MCDs get w/ breadth, something.
3) More feats incorporating magic into combat maneuvers without being solely Spellstrike or using spells. Maybe a unique reaction that gives them a miniature True Strike, working similar to Cat's Luck and the like but only for attacks. Maybe they can imbue themselves with magic to make their maneuvers extra powerful, performing grapples/trips/shoves/disarms as two-action activities but gaining bonuses or additional benefits.
4) More "baked in" features. Some feats seem like they'd work better as part of the default Magus chassis, and the Magus is outright missing aspects like (at least some equivalent of) critical specialization. Things like Energized Strikes could be made a default part of the Magus, and the level 10 Syntheses feats could likewise be made an innate part of each Synthesis as a satisfying display of progression.
5) Adjustments to the current feats we have from the playtest. Some aren't practical, some aren't satisfying, some just don't work at all. Improve upon Raise a Tome for example, make the book & blade not only practical but effective. There have been a lot of complaints about other feats that could arguably use some more love & improvements, and I'm not going to go over all of them.
6) .....Something I can't remember after getting distracted, but I refuse to leave this blank lest I remember it later.
EDIT: 6.1) Improve their proficiency progression! That's what I was forgetting! Magus gets their Master spellcasting at the same level pure Casters get Legendary. Champions and Monks both get Master in their spellcasting at level 17, while also getting legendary proficiencies at the same level. Hell, MCD characters can get Master proficiency at level 18 for the cost of a feat, while still getting their innate class benefits. I mean FFS, Investigator gets Legendary Perception at level 13; it should not be a stretch for Magus to get master/master at a relatively earlier level.
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1. Change Spellstrike so that it doesn't encourage critical fishing and allows for the option of casting spells that buff the magus instead of only attack spells. Part of the fix will likely involve increasing their proficiency with Spell Attacks so they have a chance of landing.
2. Make the Fist/Unarmed Magus a synthesis and fix the Raise a Tome so it is more worthwhile and useable. Right now it can only be used by the Unarmed Magus -- none of the others have a hand free to Raise a Tome.
3. Make Martial Caster a part of the base class at 6th level so that they keep a limited ability to do buff spells with the lower level spells.
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I know several people have complained about the Magus Potency focus spell.
I honestly like it as part of allowing the Magus an ability to bypass DR. They would still have their primary weapon with runes to improve it. They could then also carry weapons made of special materials and use Magus Potency to make them effective.
One of the things in first edition that I really liked about the Magus was the flexibility they had with respect to bypassing immunities and resistances. One of the things I didn't like as much was how extremely spiky their damage tended to be.
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1. Like everyone else just about... spellstrike. Too clumsy and inaccurate, and the crit fishing just papers over what will often be a very frustrating experience. I'm very happy if for four rounds or so a day, the magus can outdamage any martial class too. I don't think they'll push the envelope on that, but I wish they would.
2. Some better magic-martial sustain. I love the idea of sacrificing a spell slot to gain the spell level as elemental damage to all attacks for a minute. Or something probably tuned fairly, but still. So the magus isn't a one-big-enemy target but has reasonable ability to dip into their class ability when squaring off against a difficult battle against a lot of foes.
3. If the current action economy maintains, the slide casting is far too valuable to be subclass-locked. Also, I personally like the idea of expanding interactions with the action economy by incentivizing spellstriking over two turns instead of all at once. A slight penalty to the enemy's saving throw if the magus holds onto the spell a bit longer, maybe? Some way to make it more about picking the right moment than just swinging for the fences wildly.
4. Maybe higher on the list than 4, but they need some way to magically leverage their defenses. I don't like the idea that the vast majority of their magic is just big magic whoopings.
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#1- spell strike adjustment involving the removal of the critical fishing mechanic in exchange for MUCH better consistency, Wich means accuracy.
#2- some kind of adjustment (even if #1 fixes it that's fine then) so cantrip spell strike is our bread and butter attack routine (Wich if you look at cantrips you get a lot of options)
I don't have a 3rd
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I would like the focus of the class to pivot away from striking spell- a magus should be viable without making spell attacks.
Something like the "I cast spells to boost my own defenses, then wade into melee" should 100% be a viable way to play a magus. But too much of the class's budget seems to be dedicated to "you attempt a striking spell."
Fighter+caster dedication says hi
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You can "lit it up" only for about 4 levels until wizard and others get master Spellcasting and still have a slight modifier edge on you. And more spells.compared to a wizard, DCs will be 1-2 points behind at most levels (0 points behind for 2 levels, 1 point behind for 8, 2 points behind for 8, and 3 behind for 2 levels, although that’s not counting an Apex item).
No, you won’t be as strong in that role as a pure caster (and you fall way behind when they get 10th level spells), but you blow MCD AOE out of the water and you are a fully effective melee the other 90% of the day.
Well you start with 16int at best so that's 1 behind out of the gate. Then as their proficiency outpace yours that fall fluctuates been 2-3 behind. 4 at level 20.
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If possible, can we keep the focus on people providing their personal "top 3 must change" instead of debating the validity of other people's top choices.