Magus Potency- opinion and discussion

[drakinar 451]

To me this seems me (action economy wise) like trying to stuff 10 lbs into a 5 lb bag. We are already stretched thin on actions and this is a critical must have for fights. Am I alone in thinking that this should be a morning spell prep ritual that lasts all day?

Possibility:

Magus Potency: Class ability
uncommon, evocation, magus
casting time: 10 min
Target: weapon touched (or self)
Duration: 1 day

You imbue your weapon with arcane might granting it a +1 weapon potency rune, granting a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with the target weapon or your unarmed attacks if you target yourself. This spell functions only for the magus casting it.

When so Imbued you can use the striking spell action with this weapon.

Heightened 3rd: +1 striking
Heightened 4th: +2 striking

This ties your spell strike to a specific weapon and even gives a basis for a black blade magus with class archtypes down the line.

[Callin13]

Make it a feat to free up Class Ability Budget and then people who like it can take it and those who dont, dont.

[drakinar 451]

You would have to take out the clause about it being needed for spell strike to make it a feat. Magus potency was already a class ability so I left it as one. Tying it to spell strike and only usable by the magus casting it helps balance it lasting all day.

[Unicore]

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

[Martialmasters]

its only useful when you dont have your weapon or your dm isnt giving you potency/striking runes.

id consider it something to retrain out of later.

[drakinar 451]

Unicore wrote:

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

I mind it costing an action when it’s a feature the class is balanced around and taking up a focus spell slot when we could get something besides a self buff for a focus spell to help out with the limited spells. As it stands it’s worse than a feat tax, it’s a once a fight action tax. That’s just my opinion though. Others may vary.

[Angel Hunter D]

drakinar 451 wrote:

Unicore wrote:

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

I mind it costing an action when it’s a feature the class is balanced around and taking up a focus spell slot when we could get something besides a self buff for a focus spell to help out with the limited spells. As it stands it’s worse than a feat tax, it’s a once a fight action tax. That’s just my opinion though. Others may vary.

I have to agree with you, it took something from 1e and in the transition to 2e it went from a great bonus to a real pain because of action economy. Were it a reaction or free action I'd be happy with it, but as is I'm not digging it, man.

[Exocist]

The issue with this focus power is that it only does stuff at level 1, levels 7-9 and levels 13-15 where it gives +1 to hit over your current runes. For an essential focus power, that... isn't great.

One action for +1 to hit for the whole fight is strong, but what's really the purpose of this focus spell? Is it supposed to give you a +1 to hit? If so, it should just be

Magus Potency (one action)

You get a +1 status bonus to hit with the weapon.

Heightened (3rd): The weapon does two dice of damage

Heightened (7th): The weapon does three dice of damage.

Heightened (10th): The weapon does four dice of damage.

Is it supposed to be a replacement for in case you lose your magic weapon? Seems weird to be a core feature if it is.

[Staffan Johansson]

Unicore wrote:

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

But it only boost your accuracy beyond what regular gear does at specific levels: 1st, 7th through 9th, and 13th through 15th level.

+1: Magus 1st level, runes 2nd level.
+1 striking: Magus 5th level, runes 4th level.
+2 striking: Magus 7th level, runes 10th level.
+3 greater striking: Magus 13th level, runes 16th level.

Also, it's a throwback to a PF1 design principle I'm not too fond of: giving a class a low baseline at something and then add in an ability to partially negate that. Well, not exactly, because magi are as accurate as other martials at hitting with weapons, their problem is hitting with spells, particularly considering MAD.

Here's a thought, linking back to my post on rethinking the magus... what if the magus instead of boring buff spells got some heavy-duty battlefield control spells, with sub-class determining which ones (similarly to the bard)? Existing spells are kind of weak when it comes to control, mostly doing so by way of debuffs. But I'm thinking things like pulling an enemy over from half-way across the battlefield, breaking ranks and allowing the party to focus-fire on them. Or supernatural movement, or interfering with enemy ranged attacks, or whatever.

[vagrant-poet]

Exocist wrote:

The issue with this focus power is that it only does stuff at level 1, levels 7-9 and levels 13-15 where it gives +1 to hit over your current runes. For an essential focus power, that... isn't great.

This is my problem with it.

A player learning a magus by playing will feel duped by it being a real boon at level 1, then not really relevant for a few levels.

That's not a very fun paradigm for the core magus focus spell every magus will have. I'd prefer a status bonus to attack rolls, because then while you don't stack with other buffs, you get the bonus on attack spells as well. You could have it heighten so that it buffs attack spells more at higher levels, but doesn't scale at all or as much with other attack rolls and that ould fix a lot of accuracy problems with attack spells with the magus too, while feeling like a valid spell at all levels.

[shroudb]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Unicore wrote:

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

But it only boost your accuracy beyond what regular gear does at specific levels: 1st, 7th through 9th, and 13th through 15th level.

+1: Magus 1st level, runes 2nd level.
+1 striking: Magus 5th level, runes 4th level.
+2 striking: Magus 7th level, runes 10th level.
+3 greater striking: Magus 13th level, runes 16th level.

Also, it's a throwback to a PF1 design principle I'm not too fond of: giving a class a low baseline at something and then add in an ability to partially negate that. Well, not exactly, because magi are as accurate as other martials at hitting with weapons, their problem is hitting with spells, particularly considering MAD.

Here's a thought, linking back to my post on rethinking the magus... what if the magus instead of boring buff spells got some heavy-duty battlefield control spells, with sub-class determining which ones (similarly to the bard)? Existing spells are kind of weak when it comes to control, mostly doing so by way of debuffs. But I'm thinking things like pulling an enemy over from half-way across the battlefield, breaking ranks and allowing the party to focus-fire on them. Or supernatural movement, or interfering with enemy ranged attacks, or whatever.

Usually you start a level with equipment = level-1.

Even standard treasure tables give like 2 items for the whole party that are up to your level.

So, as an example, when you reach level 16, only 2 members of the party will each have a single level 16 piece of equipment.

So, at average, the levels it grants a bonus should be accounted as:
1-2, 7-10, 13-16

So 10 levels out of 20, almost 50% of the time (almost since at some point during the levels 2,10,16 you could get your +x rune as well).

[Throne]

shroudb wrote:

Usually you start a level with equipment = level-1.

Even standard treasure tables give like 2 items for the whole party that are up to your level.

So, as an example, when you reach level 16, only 2 members of the party will each have a single level 16 piece of equipment.

Do you only get loot once per level?

[Kalaam]

Angel Hunter D wrote:

drakinar 451 wrote:

Unicore wrote:

I don't mind it costing an action at the beginning of combat for being a weapon accuracy boost that lasts all combat. As a magus, anything you can do to maximize your accuracy with your weapon is great for your ability to land spells effectively as well. Honestly the only thing about that is weird is that it just never gives you a the Major striking rune, but it would have to be able to heighten to a 10th level spell for that to really happen and the accuracy is the more important part of the feature any way

I mind it costing an action when it’s a feature the class is balanced around and taking up a focus spell slot when we could get something besides a self buff for a focus spell to help out with the limited spells. As it stands it’s worse than a feat tax, it’s a once a fight action tax. That’s just my opinion though. Others may vary.

I have to agree with you, it took something from 1e and in the transition to 2e it went from a great bonus to a real pain because of action economy. Were it a reaction or free action I'd be happy with it, but as is I'm not digging it, man.

Why not make it a reaction triggered by rolling for initiative ? You could still spend an action later if you wish, but as a special reaction it could be interresting.

[shroudb]

Throne wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Usually you start a level with equipment = level-1.

Even standard treasure tables give like 2 items for the whole party that are up to your level.

So, as an example, when you reach level 16, only 2 members of the party will each have a single level 16 piece of equipment.

Do you only get loot once per level?

You may get multiple items of lower level, consumables, gold, and etc

But guidelines for distributing treasure to the party and/or starting at higher level usually allow the items to be at max Level-1

Edit:
As an example, the guidelines for a character starting at level 13, equipment wise are:
1xLevel 12 item, 2xLevel 11, 1xLevel 10 item, 2xLevel 9 items and 1000gp to spend as he likes.

[Kyrone]

It's pretty bad for a default ability, could make it an optional feat to use on precious material or secondary and give a focus spell that they can striking spell it instead.

[Kalaam]

It would be better if it was mixed with Runic Impression I think (even if it requires a feat to do so).
Maybe make it possible to use it on a reaction when you roll for initiative and have your weapon drawn ?

[Throne]

shroudb wrote:

Throne wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Usually you start a level with equipment = level-1.

Even standard treasure tables give like 2 items for the whole party that are up to your level.

So, as an example, when you reach level 16, only 2 members of the party will each have a single level 16 piece of equipment.

Do you only get loot once per level?

You may get multiple items of lower level, consumables, gold, and etc

But guidelines for distributing treasure to the party and/or starting at higher level usually allow the items to be at max Level-1

The table for party treasure by level (core book, p.509) has a party of 4 getting 4 permanent items across the course of the level; 2 at level, 2 at level +1.

If you alternate by level, everyone should be able to have a level appropriate 'main item';
Lvl 1, get a lvl 2 item (+1 weapon)
Lvl 2, get a lvl 2 item
Lvl 3, get a lvl 4 item (+1 striking weapon, 2 levels before Magus Potency)
...
Lvl 9, get a lvl 10 item (+2 striking, 2 levels after Magus Potency)
...
Lvl 11, get a lvl 12 item (+2 greater striking - Magus Potency never gives this)
...
Lvl 15, get a lvl 16 item (+3 greater striking, 2 levels after Magus Potency)
And if you switch it up and take level instead of level +1 for 16 and 17, then level +1 at 18, you get lvl 19 +3 major striking weapon, which Potency never gives.

So completely by the loot-by-level table, Magus Potency is behind for more time than ahead.

And you round it out with crafting, selling, and buying.
It's not meant to be hard to keep up with the math, which assumes you'll be doing your best to keep your weapons, armour, and items which support your favourite skills or tactics, at your level.

[Candlejake]

I think the ability has potential but imo it needs to be something that works independently of your weapon runes. A status bonus to hit and either an additional d4/d6 or if thats too strong a +1 to damage at hightened levels.

The "buffing yourself" part of magus is pretty cool so i think that would be thematic. it also works for triggering bespell weapon and the like.

I was thinking of making this a prerequisite to spell strike and in turn allowing spell strike to f~~# with the action economy by reducing actions. Similar to a monk stance or hunt prey that allows follow up skills. but i dunno.

[drakinar 451]

I think the math as pointed out above shows that potency lags behind most of the time and the majority of opinions across this forum show that people like the ability thematically but find it lacking or drudge some to use.

My opinion is that if you keep it as an action tax each combat it should be better. Otherwise move it to a prerequisite to spell strike (still thematically accurate) and use that prerequisite to buff spell strike in some way (action economy or attack bonus (int used for attack) or something). Otherwise get it out of the magus core chassis.

[shroudb]

Throne wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Throne wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Usually you start a level with equipment = level-1.

Even standard treasure tables give like 2 items for the whole party that are up to your level.

So, as an example, when you reach level 16, only 2 members of the party will each have a single level 16 piece of equipment.

Do you only get loot once per level?

You may get multiple items of lower level, consumables, gold, and etc

But guidelines for distributing treasure to the party and/or starting at higher level usually allow the items to be at max Level-1

The table for party treasure by level (core book, p.509) has a party of 4 getting 4 permanent items across the course of the level; 2 at level, 2 at level +1.

If you alternate by level, everyone should be able to have a level appropriate 'main item';
Lvl 1, get a lvl 2 item (+1 weapon)
Lvl 2, get a lvl 2 item
Lvl 3, get a lvl 4 item (+1 striking weapon, 2 levels before Magus Potency)
...
Lvl 9, get a lvl 10 item (+2 striking, 2 levels after Magus Potency)
...
Lvl 11, get a lvl 12 item (+2 greater striking - Magus Potency never gives this)
...
Lvl 15, get a lvl 16 item (+3 greater striking, 2 levels after Magus Potency)
And if you switch it up and take level instead of level +1 for 16 and 17, then level +1 at 18, you get lvl 19 +3 major striking weapon, which Potency never gives.

So completely by the loot-by-level table, Magus Potency is behind for more time than ahead.

And you round it out with crafting, selling, and buying.
It's not meant to be hard to keep up with the math, which assumes you'll be doing your best to keep your weapons, armour, and items which support your favourite skills or tactics, at your level.

the table shows what gear you get from that level to the next.

So, at level 9 to level 10, you get 2 pieces.
at level 10 to level 11, you get 2 more.

That's exactly what i'm saying, a fresh level 10 only has 50% chance to have a level 10 piece of gear.

The other 2 pieces may be in the start of the level, or towards the end of the level. For "average" sake let's say that it's towards the middle of the level.

So you basically lose 1.5 level, so overall you have an attack bonus for 8.5/20 levels, which is what i named as "slightly bellow 50%"

[HidaOWin]

I think the lack of extra focus regen in Magus hurts this ability badly. Theoretically you could forgo buying a weapon and use this instead as it gives you an on curve weapon a level or so early (apart from the weapons that are bizarrely missing, +2 Greater Striking and +3 Major Striking) but in later levels Magus Potency is competing with Runic Impression and Hasted Assault for the one Focus spell you cast every fight. That competition and action tax I can solve by just buying an appropriate magic weapon, which seems like an easy solution.

I suppose its a pinch hitting option where I can buff up a weapon to get to another damage type like bludgeoning but then I'm both spending an action to draw the weapon and then another to cast the buff.

[Unicore]

HidaOWin wrote:

I think the lack of extra focus regen in Magus hurts this ability badly. Theoretically you could forgo buying a weapon and use this instead as it gives you an on curve weapon a level or so early (apart from the weapons that are bizarrely missing, +2 Greater Striking and +3 Major Striking) but in later levels Magus Potency is competing with Runic Impression and Hasted Assault for the one Focus spell you cast every fight. That competition and action tax I can solve by just buying an appropriate magic weapon, which seems like an easy solution.

I suppose its a pinch hitting option where I can buff up a weapon to get to another damage type like bludgeoning but then I'm both spending an action to draw the weapon and then another to cast the buff.

You will want at least a +1 potency rune on your weapon because that is needed for a shifting rune (which runic impression is a waste on. But I agree they need early access to a 2 focus point refocus feat. Personally, I really like that their focus powers mimic the PF1 magus arcane pool, and by the time you really get runic impression it is not hard to spend your wealth to cover the fundamental runes and just exploit getting different elements, but eventually the ability to get Keen is pretty overwhelming. Especially with that being a uncommon rune.

[Throne]

Unicore wrote:

but eventually the ability to get Keen is pretty overwhelming. Especially with that being a uncommon rune.

Do you really find that you're often rolling 19s and not criting anyway?

[shroudb]

Throne wrote:

Unicore wrote:

but eventually the ability to get Keen is pretty overwhelming. Especially with that being a uncommon rune.

Do you really find that you're often rolling 19s and not criting anyway?

on second attacks? all the time

[Throne]

shroudb wrote:

Throne wrote:

Unicore wrote:

but eventually the ability to get Keen is pretty overwhelming. Especially with that being a uncommon rune.

Do you really find that you're often rolling 19s and not criting anyway?

on second attacks? all the time

'Useful when you roll a 19 on second attacks' feels a lot more 'very occassionally good' than 'overwhelming'.

[Unicore]

It is a catch 22. If you are good at working with your team and your team prioritizes getting you into position with the best to hit chance, then almost never.

If you are in that situation then the greater Elemental runes (which add 2d10 persistent damage on a crit) are much better additions. But if you are struggling to get support, then you will rarely be getting a crit even on a 19 vs the kind of higher level boss enemies that you really want to be able to double down on.

Runic impression is a great focus power because you chose it when you cast it. So yo add on the greater elemental runes most of the time when getting a crit is in the 10-25% range anyway, but you have a pocket ace to keep your crit range at 10% even when no one else in the party is going to be able to manage it.

[Throne]

Unicore wrote:

It is a catch 22. If you are good at working with your team and your team prioritizes getting you into position with the best to hit chance, then almost never.

If you are in that situation then the greater Elemental runes (which add 2d10 persistent damage on a crit) are much better additions. But if you are struggling to get support, then you will rarely be getting a crit even on a 19 vs the kind of higher level boss enemies that you really want to be able to double down on.

Runic impression is a great focus power because you chose it when you cast it. So yo add on the greater elemental runes most of the time when getting a crit is in the 10-25% range anyway, but you have a pocket ace to keep your crit range at 10% even when no one else in the party is going to be able to manage it.

Yeah, I've no issue with Runic Impression itself.

Flexibility is great, it's not hard to think of ways it could be useful every fight.

It's the Keen rune specifically I'm not sold on.
'Useful if you roll a 19 on your second attack' is far too situational for me to call something 'overwhelming'. I'm not sure that I would ever use it on a class with Master weapon progression.

[Unicore]

I just know a lot of people are writing off striking spell because they think the crit rider only has a 5% chance of going off, and with the magus, they can pretty easily take steps to make sure that they always have a 10% chance of getting a critical hit on their first attack, which is a significant number. Where this relates to Magus Potency, is that I see that the magus really has a choice by 10th level, keep a minimally invested weapon with a +1 rune that they plan on boosting regularly with magus potency to stay pretty well ahead of the curve with potency and striking weapons, or invest wealth in the weapon, occasionally boosting it with magus potency when it gives you an important accuracy bonus over what you already have against a tough opponent, but using runic impression in almost every fight, only ever using 2 focus points when it is necessary to really double down against a powerful foe. It really does replicate the arcane pool pretty closely.

[drakinar 451]

Unicore wrote:

I just know a lot of people are writing off striking spell because they think the crit rider only has a 5% chance of going off, and with the magus, they can pretty easily take steps to make sure that they always have a 10% chance of getting a critical hit on their first attack, which is a significant number. Where this relates to Magus Potency, is that I see that the magus really has a choice by 10th level, keep a minimally invested weapon with a +1 rune that they plan on boosting regularly with magus potency to stay pretty well ahead of the curve with potency and striking weapons, or invest wealth in the weapon, occasionally boosting it with magus potency when it gives you an important accuracy bonus over what you already have against a tough opponent, but using runic impression in almost every fight, only ever using 2 focus points when it is necessary to really double down against a powerful foe. It really does replicate the arcane pool pretty closely.

No one is going to argue that runic impression is not a great ability. But several are questioning magus potency as being even decent compared to other class’s initial focus mechanic. Yet magus potency is our base ability with no choice where as runic impression is a feat choice. Those seem switched in priority. Of course RP is more powerful as it’s a higher level ability. But generally it’s considered “better” in terms of design, flexibility, and utility not just strength. Magus potency is arguable better than simply buying your own weapon half the time. Does that really seem okay as a class chassis ability? As a class feat I am fine with it. But if it’s going to be something that all magus have It should be something that all magus want to have.

[Gaulin]

I love the idea of magus potency and I hope it stays, maybe with a few tweaks but I'd be fine with it the way it is now. Really really hope that it sticks with giving item bonuses, not status bonuses as some have suggested. As I've said before in other threads I really hate how important runes are and how much power comes from your weapon; with this you don't need runes or even a weapon to do well. And it mimics what the 1e magus does to some extent.

That being said I do agree with others in that it's in a bit of an awkward spot. Either you already have an item and use the spell as a fallback option, which is sort of lame and will see little use (but still nice to have backup) or the character spends no money on runes and relies on the spell. In the latter situation I could definitely see problems - not being able to refocus or a fight simply lasting longer than a minute would be very problematic. I should also say that before level 4, it might actually be borderline overpowered. Magic weapon is a huge damage increase and to get it as a focus spell is a little crazy.

So if it does change I would make it almost mirror how mage armor works. +1 to hit at 1st level, striking at 2nd, +2 at fifth, etc., And have it last until next preparations.

[Unicore]

drakinar 451 wrote:

Unicore wrote:

I just know a lot of people are writing off striking spell because they think the crit rider only has a 5% chance of going off, and with the magus, they can pretty easily take steps to make sure that they always have a 10% chance of getting a critical hit on their first attack, which is a significant number. Where this relates to Magus Potency, is that I see that the magus really has a choice by 10th level, keep a minimally invested weapon with a +1 rune that they plan on boosting regularly with magus potency to stay pretty well ahead of the curve with potency and striking weapons, or invest wealth in the weapon, occasionally boosting it with magus potency when it gives you an important accuracy bonus over what you already have against a tough opponent, but using runic impression in almost every fight, only ever using 2 focus points when it is necessary to really double down against a powerful foe. It really does replicate the arcane pool pretty closely.

No one is going to argue that runic impression is not a great ability. But several are questioning magus potency as being even decent compared to other class’s initial focus mechanic. Yet magus potency is our base ability with no choice where as runic impression is a feat choice. Those seem switched in priority. Of course RP is more powerful as it’s a higher level ability. But generally it’s considered “better” in terms of design, flexibility, and utility not just strength. Magus potency is arguable better than simply buying your own weapon half the time. Does that really seem okay as a class chassis ability? As a class feat I am fine with it. But if it’s going to be something that all magus have It should be something that all magus want to have.

Potency is not "arguably" better than buying runes. It is flatly better than trying to keep up with maxed out fundamental runes until you can be spending your focus point on runic Impressions instead. Then a legitimate argument arises. Getting a +1 accuracy bonus at level 1 over other martial characters (except fighter) is an automatic damage bonus that cascades forward into their spell casting proficiency through striking spell. That appears to go away at 2nd level, assuming the magus has a +1 weapon, but the magus can also use it on their back up weapon or ranged weapon without ever having to waste gold which they need to be investing into scrolls, wands and other spell granting items as soon as possible.

[drakinar 451]

Unicore wrote:

drakinar 451 wrote:

Unicore wrote:

I just know a lot of people are writing off striking spell because they think the crit rider only has a 5% chance of going off, and with the magus, they can pretty easily take steps to make sure that they always have a 10% chance of getting a critical hit on their first attack, which is a significant number. Where this relates to Magus Potency, is that I see that the magus really has a choice by 10th level, keep a minimally invested weapon with a +1 rune that they plan on boosting regularly with magus potency to stay pretty well ahead of the curve with potency and striking weapons, or invest wealth in the weapon, occasionally boosting it with magus potency when it gives you an important accuracy bonus over what you already have against a tough opponent, but using runic impression in almost every fight, only ever using 2 focus points when it is necessary to really double down against a powerful foe. It really does replicate the arcane pool pretty closely.

No one is going to argue that runic impression is not a great ability. But several are questioning magus potency as being even decent compared to other class’s initial focus mechanic. Yet magus potency is our base ability with no choice where as runic impression is a feat choice. Those seem switched in priority. Of course RP is more powerful as it’s a higher level ability. But generally it’s considered “better” in terms of design, flexibility, and utility not just strength. Magus potency is arguable better than simply buying your own weapon half the time. Does that really seem okay as a class chassis ability? As a class feat I am fine with it. But if it’s going to be something that all magus have It should be something that all magus want to have.

Potency is not "arguably" better than buying runes. It is flatly better than trying to keep up with maxed out fundamental runes until you can be spending your focus point on runic Impressions instead. Then a legitimate argument arises. Getting a +1...

It’s arguably better because the action it takes up has a significant value due to action economy constraints when you can achieve the same thing with currency. Taking that into account along with positioning and fight dynamics the majority of the time the magus will not be attacking round 1. Ramp up classes suck to play and the magus has several ramp up abilities.

1st edition 2nd level: I can imbue blade from the arcana pool as a swift action, move, and spell strike. the ability to imbue does not interfere with the turn.

2nd edition 2nd level: I spend an action to use magus potency, 2 actions to spell strike charging a weapon (and if sliding synthesis move) and that's my turn. The ability has interfered with my action.

[Throne]

Unicore wrote:

Potency is not "arguably" better than buying runes. It is flatly better than trying to keep up with maxed out fundamental runes ...

'Keeping up' with maxed out fundamental runes isn't difficult, isn't supposed to be difficult, and is something the system math assumes you'll be doing.

There's an argument that potency is better some of the time, but there's an argument that it's worse just as much.

[HidaOWin]

Assuming you get the opportunity to get your magic weapons on recommended level.

+1 weapon Level 2
+1 striking weapon Level 4
+2 striking weapon level 10
+2 greater striking weapon level 12
+3 greater striking weapon level 16
+3 major striking weapon level 19

Potency gets you
+1 weapon Level 1 1 level early
+1 striking weapon Level 5 1 level late
+2 striking weapon level 7 3 levels early
+3 greater striking weapon level 15 1 level early
It doesn't do +2 greater striking or +3 major striking.

Ironically this means level 8 is when you get Runic Impression which means you'll spend 2 levels of fights debating which one to activate just as you get your shiny new feat.

[Martialmasters]

I don't see how it's a good idea to hold off your weapon progression ever. No magical item is worth that unless you can gaurantee every single fight you go into that you will have focus for it.

Beyond they it's a 1 again cost setup like stances, Wich is a sizeable cost.

If it was like a focus cantrip maybe I could be on board.

[RexAliquid]

I was musing earlier that magus potency allows you to swap out which staff you are using on a day-by-day basis (Assuming staves are intended to work with magus spellcasting).

[Throne]

HidaOWin wrote:

Assuming you get the opportunity to get your magic weapons on recommended level.

+1 weapon Level 2
+1 striking weapon Level 4
+2 striking weapon level 10
+2 greater striking weapon level 12
+3 greater striking weapon level 16
+3 major striking weapon level 19

Potency gets you
+1 weapon Level 1 1 level early
+1 striking weapon Level 5 1 level late
+2 striking weapon level 7 3 levels early
+3 greater striking weapon level 15 1 level early
It doesn't do +2 greater striking or +3 major striking.

Ironically this means level 8 is when you get Runic Impression which means you'll spend 2 levels of fights debating which one to activate just as you get your shiny new feat.

Went over this briefly in another thread, but the suggested loot table recommendation is enough for everyone in the party to get a level+1 item every other level, which is enough to get your weapon upgrades a level early with some wiggle room.

[Kalaam]

Magus Potency is not bad, it's useful *if* you don't want to spend your gold on your weapon first, or if you have to change weapon etc. Like using your spare Cold Iron Dagger on a Linorm or stuff. It's okay.

What would be interresting would be that Runic Impression merges with Potency so it has a use even when you already have a runed up weapon. Make it a reaction to rolling for initiative maybe.