So, in our game last night our party found themselves against an intelligent swarm with elemental resistance. The swarm in question was thankfully not completely immune to weapon damage. It took half-damage from bludgeoning weapons and was immune to other kinds of weapon damage. The alchemist in the group tried hitting it with an alchemist fire and was told that the swarm took no damage from it, thanks to it having fire resistance 10.
I looked at this thread and the general consensus seemed to be that the only reliable way to counter something like this would be with a swarm bane clasp.
Here's the thing though, we are 5th level but because of the nature of the game we've had little to no down time. What down time we've had no one character could spend more than 500gp on equipment. So, basically we are all running around with our starting gear and whatever we've managed to loot. My character has only has about 1,500gp even if we were able to buy and sell things without limit. This means that a swarmbane clasp is out of reach for my character and given the setting I fully expect to encounter more powerful swarms in the future. I'm not the only melee fighter in the group so while we could pool our money to get a clasp for one of us, it won't really help the others.
Is there anything I could look into getting that would help? My character is effectively a non-caster and it would be nice to be able to contribute in a helpful way against the next swarm that probably will be fully immune to weapon damage. I feel like this fight was a sort of warning saying "hey, you guys should probably have a plan on how to deal with something like this in the future"
Any suggestions?
run?
I mean if they have energy resistance and are going to be immune to weapon damage and you're well down on Wealth By Level. I think your DM is just trying to murder you. I'd have a talk with them about it.
if they are a non-flying swarm, maybe try a big pot of glue/honey to "fly trap" them?
Really the best I can think of are environmental or terrain effects that you might be able to pull off (like diverting a powerful stream of water, luring them into a lava/steam field, etc...) and all that depends on the DM setting you up to be able to use stuff like that. So again, run.
Depends on how far you are willing to go in order to combat the issue. There are just parts of the game that do not interact well with each other, especially non-casters and swarms... and that is exponentially a bigger issue when you can't equip yourself properly. Most ways a fighter (non-caster) handles swarms is through proper gearing.
My suggestion, and it might not be popular, is the look at potentially multiclassing with Kineticist. Better yet, have two people do it, pick blasts that work together in a composite blast, and pick up the teamwork feat Interweave Composite Blast. If you both pick Aether, you can get a blast that does Force damage and just not worry about energy resistance.
if they are a non-flying swarm, maybe try a big pot of glue/honey to "fly trap" them?
Really the best I can think of are environmental or terrain effects that you might be able to pull off (like diverting a powerful stream of water, luring them into a lava/steam field, etc...) and all that depends on the DM setting you up to be able to use stuff like that. So again, run.
Yeah, the only problem is that this was actually an intelligent swarm so we couldn't really lure it away or trick it. Also, it was effectively acting like a guard dog the place we were attacking. So, we couldn't lure it away, nor could we just ignore it. It had to be eliminated so that we could move forward. It was scary without being deadly since I was able to bash away at it with my +1 mace which allowed me to meaningfully contribute. The paladin was able to similarly use their smite evil ability along with shield bashing it. While sub-optimal for our characters, it meant we could ignore it's DR and do half damage against the thing. Oh yeah, it also had DR on top of the weapon immunities I mentioned. *shakes head*
The DM knows everyone's characters are fairly optimized and so he has intentionally buffed everything to counteract that. I felt like I got lucky in this fight that I happened to have taken the +1 mace as a backup weapon. My main weapon is more damaging but it's currently neither magical nor does bludgeoning damage.
Without doing the math I estimate that my gear puts me between 1/2 to 3/4 where I should be wealth wise between cash, my magic weapon, magic platemail and other assorted gear/consumables. The DM was saying that after we finish the thing we're currently working on we will have a chance at downtime. Though I really don't know how much that means we'll get.
Depends on how far you are willing to go in order to combat the issue. There are just parts of the game that do not interact well with each other, especially non-casters and swarms... and that is exponentially a bigger issue when you can't equip yourself properly. Most ways a fighter (non-caster) handles swarms is through proper gearing.
My suggestion, and it might not be popular, is the look at potentially multiclassing with Kineticist. Better yet, have two people do it, pick blasts that work together in a composite blast, and pick up the teamwork feat Interweave Composite Blast. If you both pick Aether, you can get a blast that does Force damage and just not worry about energy resistance.
As you said, multi-classing may not be very realistic as it would mess with people's builds. I haven't looked at kenetist very much but I'll certainly take a look. My character does have UMD as a class skill (though currently I haven't been able to afford putting any points into it yet) so, spells aren't completely off the table for me. But they would have to come in the form of fairly inexpensive items/consumables and it would mean diverting points from skills my character uses.
There is a feat called "Ratcatcher" that allows you to fight swarms.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rat-catcher-combat/
The feat on its own is probably too situational to be worth a feat slot, but if you have access to Martial Flexibility (e.g. from a single level of Brawler) this might be nice.
As you said, multi-classing may not be very realistic as it would mess with people's builds. I haven't looked at kenetist very much but I'll certainly take a look. My character does have UMD as a class skill (though currently I haven't been able to afford putting any points into it yet) so, spells aren't completely off the table for me. But they would have to come in the form of fairly inexpensive items/consumables and it would mean diverting points from skills my character uses.
Yeah, I am aware that most people are fairly unyielding on deviating from their character builds. It just depends on what kind of game you are playing. Generally, I don't participate in games that require you to milk every last drop of power from your character.
The sad thing is, the only answer to your problem is better gear. When nothing else can bend, you have to find out what is more important and sacrifice something for it, or you end up with a dead character.
There is a feat called "Ratcatcher" that allows you to fight swarms.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rat-catcher-combat/
The feat on its own is probably too situational to be worth a feat slot, but if you have access to Martial Flexibility (e.g. from a single level of Brawler) this might be nice.
Very cool! I could probably throw this feat onto a bludgeoning weapon if I find I can't afford the neck slot for a swarmbane clasp. It's a shame it's not a teamwork feat as I can currently flex into those. Alternatively one of my animal companions could take it. I was forced to have them hide around the corner since they couldn't contribute to the fight and there was no reason for them to get needlessly injured.
As you said, multi-classing may not be very realistic as it would mess with people's builds. I haven't looked at kenetist very much but I'll certainly take a look. My character does have UMD as a class skill (though currently I haven't been able to afford putting any points into it yet) so, spells aren't completely off the table for me. But they would have to come in the form of fairly inexpensive items/consumables and it would mean diverting points from skills my character uses.Yeah, I am aware that most people are fairly unyielding on deviating from their character builds. It just depends on what kind of game you are playing. Generally, I don't participate in games that require you to milk every last drop of power from your character.
The sad thing is, the only answer to your problem is better gear. When nothing else can bend, you have to find out what is more important and sacrifice something for it, or you end up with a dead character.
It's true, I was hoping for an equipment based answer that isn't just "get a swarm bane clasp when you can afford it."
But it's good to know what options exist to see what I'm willing to put up with. I'm already looking at retraining a feat and a class feature because I had grab things that are useful today to survive, but which won't be so great 4 levels from now.
It's better to be flexible than dead.
Caltrop beads aren't part of everyone's standard kit?
What about pellet grenades?
Wand of Burning Hands?
As a Noble Drow, I usually just levitate and let the party deal with them... that's not true, I used all my alchemist fire and my caltrop beads... and a 2nd level spell. But none of that matters.
There are tons of items that you can use against swarms, and most of them have can be used in so many different situations that they should already be in your kit... and if they aren't, then I don't feel sorry for you. If they were once in your kit, and you have used them out without the ability to resupply... then run.
Oh brave, Sir Robin, he bravely runs away...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This works great if you have time, money, and foreknowledge.
Swarmsuit
Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 58, Advanced Player's Guide pg. 183
Price 20 gp; Weight 10 lbs.
Category Adventuring Gear
Description
These heavy and overlapping layers of clothing, coupled with a wide hat outfitted with a dense, veil-like netting around its brim, makes it all but impossible for Diminutive and Fine creatures to make physical contact with your body. Wearing a swarmsuit cuts your speed in half, but gives you DR 10/— against swarms of Fine creatures and DR 5/— against swarms of Diminutive creatures.
There is a real demand for a Transmutation version of the Sleeves of Many Garments wondrous item. A Grater version maybe.
There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A couple other feats:
Death Field (prereq 5 ranks know planes) you can exude and aura of 1d6 negative energy.
Swarm Dodger make a reflex save to avoid swarm damage
Some items
Kitmu's Ire an alchemical item you can throw to direct swarms to attack the target.
fuse grenades or pellet grenades for some physical aoe damage.
I pulled this outa my, well you know...
The Alchamist's claymore
1 4" x 8", 1/8" thick iron plate with a 1" lip
1 clay vessel (fired to fit and hold materials)
1 tanglefoot bag (glue for back and thunderstones)
1 bag of caltrops (stacked neatly inside over thunderstones)
3 thunderstones (go boom)
1 flask of alhemist's fire (fill vessle)
2 smokesticks (optional)
1 tindertwig (push/pull trigger)
The Claymore fires steel caltrops, out to about 330 ft. within a 60° arc in front of the device.
!!! DO NOT DROP !!! FRONT TWARD ENEMY !!! is printed in common on the back and !!!FRONT!!! is printed in common on the front.
145gp worth of hate +40gp for smoke
Am still trying to figure the damage on this
Thanks!
plenty of things to pick over and see what will make the most sense to grab to have as options in the future.
Based on the fight I think the DM slapped the Demonic Vermin template linked above onto what we were fighting because it's practically identical to what we were dealing with resistance wise and even the fact that it was intelligent.
Though I don't think it was mentioned, it does make me think that holywater would probably be a good thing to keep on hand for potential future encounters. It seems worth trying at least.
Would the Sanctified Spell (Metamagic) feat make a spell like Fog Cloud the equivalent of Holy Water?
Would the Sanctified Spell (Metamagic) feat make a spell like Fog Cloud the equivalent of Holy Water?
Where's this feat from?
Edit: ah, Rogue genius games. Well, it only affects damage which fog cloud doesn't do, so no it does nothing to fog cloud.
So you'd have to cast Bless Water on the Fog or work it into a one shot item that dose both.
Thanks
My last campaign, our fighter was swallowed whole by a megalodon and later by a kraken. Afterwards he just simply refused to get onto a boat.