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My first question is more akin to 'What magic school levels its students up to 20, and why doesn't everyone go there?'
You could make an AP where you start as a student, graduate in book 2 or 3, spend book 4 off campus somewhere and get invited back to teach in books 5 and 6 because otherwise it might as well be the 'Mired in Acadamia AP' where people go into the university system and never leave.
The Magaambya, in addition to being a school, basically serves as the military force and intelligence apparatus of Nantambu (the city in which it is housed), among other things. Many high level and competent people work for it in all sorts of capacities.
You would probably no longer be a student in the strictest sense after the first couple of books, but that doesn't mean a whole AP couldn't revolve around it.
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When you say the theme is PCs are attending a magical academy, then I would expect the majority of the AP to be about that. Otherwise its something of a letdown. I'm sure it can work, I just think that a "Magic School with PCs as Students" is not a theme you can fill six volumes with and keep to that theme. That's why I suggested PCs as Faculty.
"Neophytes risings in power in the Magaambya" is a similar theme that wouldn't create out of place expectations.
That wasn't the pitch, though. Ventnor's original post on the topic said nothing about the whole AP being as students.
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PCs are supposed to be special.How special can PCs be? You kill one and another one of equal level shows up to take their place. There is literally an infinite number of them.
No, PCs aren't special. Anyone can be a PC.
No, only PCs can be PCs. And they only exist when their player creates and plays them.
Don't use the meta for game allowances to disrupt the story and setting when there's no need for that.
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PCs are average people who due to circumstances (possibly beyond their control) they were put in position to be special and answered the call.
Like we've had APs where the opening hooks are "you went to a festival/protest" or "you knew a guy". Lots of other people were presumably at that event and plenty of other people probably knew the person in question too, but they didn't go on to save the world or whatever.
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Have to agree with others who have said they want something to do with Nex, Geb, and the Mana Wastes. There's lots of interesting stuff going on in that region and plenty of fun magical (or unmagical, in the case of the Mana Wastes) weirdness going on. Plus, Geb (the person) has become more active and Lost Omens Legends has hinted at the possibility of Nex (the person) returning, and even if that isn't the case the response to that could make a good plot hook. And the crashed city of Ulduvai is close to that area, so you could even involve investigating the Shory Empire.
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Meanwhile there can be level 7 farmer who never did anything special, since level is kinda abstraction scaled by what kind of story pcs need to face
Anyhoo, I'm curious about why Numeria ap would require teamwork with Starfinder team? I mean, mostly because besides Pathfinder and Starfinder being AUs(and that meaning they already contradict each other), with golarion being gone in Starfinder what numeria has to do with starfinder? Its not like dominion of the black now needs starfinder team consultation just because they are from space
Meanwhile there can be level 7 farmer who never did anything special, since level is kinda abstraction scaled by what kind of story pcs need to face
Anyhoo, I'm curious about why Numeria ap would require teamwork with Starfinder team? I mean, mostly because besides Pathfinder and Starfinder being AUs(and that meaning they already contradict each other), with golarion being gone in Starfinder what numeria has to do with starfinder? Its not like dominion of the black now needs starfinder team consultation just because they are from space
That also had me curious. I can see the value in coordination, given the thematic overlaps, but it being necessary has me intrigued. Perhaps it is simply that the Starfinder team contains all of the people most familiar with high tech items and rules, and it would save a lot of work-hours to have their knowledge to draw on?
Note: I am not second guessing them. This is merely something I don't understand, due to lack of the specific knowledge of how their company is structured and who brings what skills to specific teams. AS James does have that knowledge, I'll take his word for it.
Creative Director
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Meanwhile there can be level 7 farmer who never did anything special, since level is kinda abstraction scaled by what kind of story pcs need to face
Anyhoo, I'm curious about why Numeria ap would require teamwork with Starfinder team? I mean, mostly because besides Pathfinder and Starfinder being AUs(and that meaning they already contradict each other), with golarion being gone in Starfinder what numeria has to do with starfinder? Its not like dominion of the black now needs starfinder team consultation just because they are from space
Because its the respectful thing to do. We've got an entire team at Paizo who's been specializing in doing science fantasy stories for YEARS, and doing another science fantasy story for Pathfinder while ignoring those years of skill and experience would be foolish and disrespectful.
The Starfinder team already knows a lot about Pathfinder's history. The Creative Director for Starfinder helped me BUILD Iron Gods, for example. That doesn't go both ways. Just as the Starfinder team isn't 100% up on 2nd edition Pathifnder, neither is the Pathfinder team (me included) 100% up on Starfinder.
The Pathfinder team would still be the ones to handle the rules and story and development, but ignoring the fact that we've got a team of specialists to help with a science fantasy thing like a sequel to Iron Gods would be ... well, I said it before: Disrespectful.
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All great points and even MORE reason to set the talent at Paizo to writing some Alkenstar/Mana Wastes adventures. You can play around with an area that's almost completely undeveloped, do deep dives into unknown magical forces, high tier technology, non-threatening undead, antimagic, and tell stories that would otherwise be impossible anywhere else on the globe.
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I want to play Starfinder with PF2 rules/compatibility *so bad*
That epic postal service idea someone had in... one of the various clones of this thread was also genuinely cool. Fighting to get a package to increasingly powerful locations.We've been kicking around a plot like this for a bit, although it's more a "Establish a trade route through various regions" rather than delivering a single package. I could see it starting as deliveries and escalating from there to trade route creation, though.
I am so happy to hear this :)
I want to play Starfinder with PF2 rules/compatibility *so bad*
I would be genuinely interested in seeing the classes converted to PF2. Mostly as class archetypes or even just class feats, but with 3-4 converted into new PF2 classes.
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Starfinder 1.5 with the 3 action economy and class/ancestry/general feat structure from PF2 is something I genuinely want.
A Nex/Geb/Mana wastes AP could be a good fit for the 11-20 half of a split 3-and-3 AP if Abomination Vaults/Fist of the Ruby Phoenix does well enough for Paizo to continue with that model.
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A Nex/Geb/Mana wastes AP could be a good fit for the 11-20 half of a split 3-and-3 AP if Abomination Vaults/Fist of the Ruby Phoenix does well enough for Paizo to continue with that model.
I hope they do. I really want 3 book APs that make the dream of getting to 20 more manageable. 3-6 months is a much more manageable time frame for keeping grown adults adults together for a set day every week before real life gets in the way and breaks it up.
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A Magaambya-based adventure path might also work as a 3-book campaign path too, though more for levels 1-10.
As intriguing as Geb & Nex are, how does one make such an AP about the heroes rather than Geb or Nex (the entities)?
Party takes them both down? What are the unknown factors to make things interesting?
Geb is especially awkward because if the party disturbs the balance, they may unleash undead that are pretty quiescent as issues stand. Or maybe the Whispering Way is already trying to do that, seeing a second undead uprising as good for their business.
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As intriguing as Geb & Nex are, how does one make such an AP about the heroes rather than Geb or Nex (the entities)?
Party takes them both down? What are the unknown factors to make things interesting?Geb is especially awkward because if the party disturbs the balance, they may unleash undead that are pretty quiescent as issues stand. Or maybe the Whispering Way is already trying to do that, seeing a second undead uprising as good for their business.
Not every Adventure Path has to be about heroes. And not all adventure paths that aren't about heroes have to be evil Adventure Paths.
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I feel like the Nex/Geb AP I'd be most interested in is "minimizing the damage to ordinary people while the archmages have their spat".
Lycanthropy. Lots and lots of lycanthropy.
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Not every Adventure Path has to be about heroes. And not all adventure paths that aren't about heroes have to be evil Adventure Paths.As intriguing as Geb & Nex are, how does one make such an AP about the heroes rather than Geb or Nex (the entities)?
Party takes them both down? What are the unknown factors to make things interesting?Geb is especially awkward because if the party disturbs the balance, they may unleash undead that are pretty quiescent as issues stand. Or maybe the Whispering Way is already trying to do that, seeing a second undead uprising as good for their business.
I think we interpret that question differently, because my understanding of what it was asking is "How do you make that AP focus on the PCs rather than Messrs Geb and Nex"
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Simple: By telling a story that doesn't involve the region's rulers. There's more to Nex and Geb than their conflict and their leaders.Exactly. The rulers and their conflict can be background to the events and not the main thrust of the story.
Or not even background.
That said... an Adventure Path covers 1st to 20th level, and that means that by the last 2 adventures, the PCs are absolutely going to be high enough level to be noticed by the rulers of the region in which they're adventuring. So... logically, it'd surely make sense for them to become involved at some point, and since we try not to repeat locations too often except for establishing an edition's baseline (Varisia in 1st edition, Isle of Kortos for 2nd), any adventure set in Nex or Geb that DOESN'T feature the leaders in some way would more or less ensure that we won't EVER tell a story that involves them...
...so that's something we have to keep in mind. In most cases, if an Adventure Path doesn't have a plot that involves a region's movers and shakers, we tend to try to set them in areas that either don't have movers or shakers or in areas where we've already told those stories.
I do just want an AP in that gonzo impossible lands whatever it is about.
Like we can visit Nex, Geb, Jalmeray, etc. without having to solve the fundamental issues in those reasons. The PCs might have to meet Geb because they get close to his weight class, but there's no need to solve or even address the question of "What happened to Nex and when is he coming back?" Of course, on the other hand Golarion might be close to critical mass regarding "what happened to X being?" mysteries that we're unwilling to address.
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I've long thought that an Adventure Path where the entire party is building a Thieves' Guild could be fun. Certainly doesn't have to be an evil AP either, especially if said Adventure Path is set in, say, Corentyn or Zirnakaynin or Mechitar or Ilizmagorti or Riddleport or so on.
I've long thought that an Adventure Path where the entire party is building a Thieves' Guild could be fun. Certainly doesn't have to be an evil AP either, especially if said Adventure Path is set in, say, Corentyn or Zirnakaynin or Mechitar or Ilizmagorti or Riddleport or so on.
This is something I've always wanted to do and would love an AP for it.
An idea I just had: ever since reading Mhar's whole backstory I find interesting and rather disturbing (the poor guy just wants to avoid freezing). I was thinking maybe at the end of an AP the PCs could meet him but, as he's probably too powerful for them to beat, they could banish him into a white dwarf star or something (which take 100 trillion years or more to cool, so the rest of the universe wouldn't have to worry about him for a while). I'm not sure what the rest of the AP would be about (maybe it would just be a high level one shot module.)
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Vudra. Whole AP in Vudra.
Vudra. Whole AP in Vudra.
Maybe start the thing off in Jamelray, before heading off into the impossible.
Vudra. Whole AP in Vudra.
Would Kothgaz come back at the end?
Vudra. Whole AP in Vudra.Maybe start the thing off in Jamelray, before heading off into the impossible.
I would hope that the Vudra AP would go all over the place, being largely about how incredibly diverse and difficult to categorize Vudra is.
Choices.
Most APs have given us interesting strategic, tactical, & story choices and I'd love for that to continue. I'd like to see other types of choices too, like moral & personal ones, hopefully w/ consequences. Yes, those are more difficult, but they resonate far longer so fewer are necessary.
"This will depend on which town/sister/orc chieftain the party chose to rescue/align with/destroy."
The players' guides can already sow the seeds for integrated backstories which influence such choices.
ETA: I guess I should add "and why". I prefer the APs that have long relationships w/ NPCs and/or locales (and I'm pretty certain Paizo does too). I think some of the suggestions might makes such connections difficult or contrived.
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Oh, and to clarify earlier when I said heroes, I meant it in the generic party of protagonists sense, not they "must be virtuous" sense. Intriguing stories come in all flavors and I trust Paizo's sensibilities re: cruelty and un-fun practices.
I really want a PF2 game about being Con Artists. Ala Lies of Locke Lamora.I'd like to see a Razmir AP, and I think these 2 would work together.
Now that you mention it, I think an AP involving Razmir would be fun as well.