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Nah, we don’t need the Demigod of child molestation in anything.
It adds literally nothing good, at all.
You'd literally have to stop their evil plans before they made plans or even had the spark of an idea of what plans to make, so that players & GMs wouldn't have to read that crap or draw insinuations or anything.
Even a background NPC that you want the PCs to hate risks triggering sentiments that conflict mightily with having a bit of recreation playing a game. Not cool. That's the type of content that goes in a book with a warning label like "The Book of Vile Darkness" which while excellent for its intents, was not for mainstream play, not even default horror.
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I mean every depraved, awful, horrific thing you can think of is likely represented in Hell, the Abyss, or Abbadon.
But what is the value in talking about it in our fun-time elfgames?
In cases of "stop the baddies who are up to [bad thing]" the nature of the [bad thing] needn't be super relevant. Like if it's a murder cult, but not specifically a child-murder cult, the PCs are still going to want to stop them. Like the threshold for "how righteous does my vengeance have to be to justify perpetrating violence on these malefactors" is not very high in these things, after all.
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Like Folca could have worked as Freddy Krueger sort of figure, but thing is that while Freddy Krueger is molester as well, Folca didn't really NEED to be one(like I think they could have worked if they were more like Summerween Trickster from Gravity Falls or even just drug god) and abilities they gave to worshippers were gross and too explicit :P
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Like Folca could have worked as Freddy Krueger sort of figure, but thing is that while Freddy Krueger is molester as well, Folca didn't really NEED to be one(like I think they could have worked if they were more like Summerween Trickster from Gravity Falls or even just drug god) and abilities they gave to worshippers were gross and too explicit :P
I've said it before and I'll say it again I dont think the actual intent was molester but more like Pennywise from IT problem is when you strip out the Pennywise specific details (You know to avoid being sued for copyright) and look at it from just the basics You have something that looks like pennywise if you know thats what it's supposed to be but at the same time if you dont know what it's intended to be it is also pretty much the same Mo as a child molester.
It wasent caught because (As far as I know) All the people at Paizo who would have looked at it are stephen King fans (That and the New It films had just released and I believe most the Paizo staff went to see it) so when they all looked at it they saw Pennywise/It homage and not the rather more unfortunate thing everyone else saw it as.
I think, though, that since all the bad things are represented in the Abyss etc. then if you're the most notable power with something truly awful in your neighborhood then that's going to be part of your deal.
If you wanted to do like a PG-13 Teddy Krueger thing, you would have the big bad be someone below the "I'm a demigod" weight class because once you get into the "possess domains, have a divine spark, grant spells" territory then you start to represent things not just "do things."
Also if you didn't want people to associate "sexual violence" with that particular daemon harbinger, you wouldn't have put the spell "unnatural lust" anywhere near them, whereas in the actual book the harbinger in question granted it as a boon to people with the PrC.
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Kaiju are level 28 to level 30 creatures. They're pretty much equally capable of destroying a 20th level PC in one shot as they are a 1st level. A Kaiju-themed adventure (or adventure path) would not feature an actual fight against a kaiju.Level 30? Why are Kaiju stronger than Tarrasque and Tree Razer?
Kaiju beeg, Treerazer smol.
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If you wanted to do like a PG-13 Teddy Krueger thing, you would have the big bad be someone below the "I'm a demigod"
We actually have a Freddy Kreuger expy (though he is a demigod), The Nightripper.
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Pharasma is more responsible for "you have memories and a personality while you are alive" than she is for "those things don't (usually) persist when you pass on to the outer planes.
The whole system of "life in the cosmos" is a means of sorting the energy that pours out of the Positive Energy Plane and distributing it to outer planes according to a system. "People are alive and make choices" was a thing that Pharasma (and likely others) came up with for this.
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I mean, we had a whole adventure path that spent a significant time in the Abyss. There's a lot worse stuff going on in the Abyss than was talked about in WotR. Roughly 1/6 of Hell's Rebels is in Hell, and it's disturbing enough to get a (warranted) content warning but they didn't need to go that far afield to get the desired reaction.
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Kaiju are level 28 to level 30 creatures. They're pretty much equally capable of destroying a 20th level PC in one shot as they are a 1st level. A Kaiju-themed adventure (or adventure path) would not feature an actual fight against a kaiju.Level 30? Why are Kaiju stronger than Tarrasque and Tree Razer?
Lol, I actually sort of took issue with them being so high level, too. Not only because you'll pretty much never use them, but it cheapens the feeling of being 20th level and the encounters you face at that point.
You know those gigantic divine spawn from that deific monstrosity that other deities fear? All completely fodder compared to any Toho inspired kaiju you can blindly point at.
You know that awesome 20th level druid that can literally transform into a kaiju? Just gets one shotted like they don't matter.
Kinda lame, but it is what it is.
Creative Director
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Flag and move back to talking about what you'd like to see in upcoming Adventure Paths. Don't insult others. And don't champion for us to change our minds on fixing awful mistakes we made. The game isn't for everyone, but we try to make it WELCOMING to as many folks. That sometimes means we have to make choices, and we'll always err on the side of trying to make those choices to do less harm. I didn't invent Folca, but nor did I cut him from the book. I made a mistake in including him, and had I a time machine I would have cut him from the setting. I don't, so the next best thing is to not include him at all going forward in the setting, and to apologize to those who have been wounded by his inclusion in the setting.
If that makes someone lose respect for me, I'm fine with that.
Back to the topic of what you'd like to see in upcoming Adventure Paths.
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That epic postal service idea someone had in... one of the various clones of this thread was also genuinely cool. Fighting to get a package to increasingly powerful locations.
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Creative Director
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That epic postal service idea someone had in... one of the various clones of this thread was also genuinely cool. Fighting to get a package to increasingly powerful locations.
We've been kicking around a plot like this for a bit, although it's more a "Establish a trade route through various regions" rather than delivering a single package. I could see it starting as deliveries and escalating from there to trade route creation, though.
Yeah, that does sound like it can carry a cohesive through-plot more than just being the most powerful postal carriers around. But trailblazing IS fun. If it ever comes to fruition, I'll be very excited.
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That epic postal service idea someone had in... one of the various clones of this thread was also genuinely cool. Fighting to get a package to increasingly powerful locations.We've been kicking around a plot like this for a bit, although it's more a "Establish a trade route through various regions" rather than delivering a single package. I could see it starting as deliveries and escalating from there to trade route creation, though.
Ooh, that sounds quite interesting. ut my vote down for the Golarion Post AP
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Creative Director
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Kaiju are level 28 to level 30 creatures. They're pretty much equally capable of destroying a 20th level PC in one shot as they are a 1st level. A Kaiju-themed adventure (or adventure path) would not feature an actual fight against a kaiju.Level 30? Why are Kaiju stronger than Tarrasque and Tree Razer?
Because they serve different roles.
Treerazer is a nascent demon lord—he's not a full-fledged demigod, and the way we've decided to quantify that in-game is to have demigods at levels 26 to 30. So by setting Treerazer at 25, he's at the cusp of becoming a demigod, but he's not there yet. He's also just a hair beyond what a 20th level party could/should encoutner... he's meant to be an end-of-the-campaign foe for a standard 1st to 20th level progression, where the PCs not only gain 20th level, but also spend an entire campaign setting themselves up, gathering allies, and recovering powerful magic and likely artifacts to be able to face Treerazer in an epic shake the pillars of creation showdown.
The tarrasque is an export from D&D. We've recast it as a minion of our God of Destruction and changed its alignment from neutral to chaotic evil, but didn't want to change it's role from the same basic one that Treerazer fills—an epic end boss for a 20 level group who's played an entire campaign to reach that fight.
Kaiju, demigods, and other 26–30 level creatures were in 1st edition created to serve as foes for high level mythic characters. We don't have a solution yet for 2nd edition for these characters, but until we make that decision, I'm not eager to rebuild those creatures at lower level.
Doesn't mean you can't use kaiju in a non-mythic adventure, but they have to play a role other than "Roll initiative and fight."
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Back to the topic of what you'd like to see in upcoming Adventure Paths.In your opinion, would we be able to see some Numeria stuff within the next 2 years?
I would love to do something like that. I've had a sequel Adventure Path to Iron Gods bumping in my head since I finished work on Iron Gods, but until we can get a science-fantasy tech book on the schedule to support a big return to Numeria... we won't be going back there for anything significant. A PFS scenario here and there, a few entries in books like Lost Omens Legends, but no big adventures or Adventure Paths.
I would say seeing something like that in the next 2 years is Very VERY unlikely. If it happens, I'll be delighted, but to be honest, the fact that we're doing Starfinder now as a separate line with separate teams kinda makes the possibility of a high-tech Numeria-themed thing happening in Pathifnder even MORE unlikely, since that'd require both teams, and there's logistical and scheduling reasons why that's a tough ask these days.
Back to the topic of what you'd like to see in upcoming Adventure Paths.In your opinion, would we be able to see some Numeria stuff within the next 2 years?
I would love to do something like that. I've had a sequel Adventure Path to Iron Gods bumping in my head since I finished work on Iron Gods, but until we can get a science-fantasy tech book on the schedule to support a big return to Numeria... we won't be going back there for anything significant. A PFS scenario here and there, a few entries in books like Lost Omens Legends, but no big adventures or Adventure Paths.
I would say seeing something like that in the next 2 years is Very VERY unlikely. If it happens, I'll be delighted, but to be honest, the fact that we're doing Starfinder now as a separate line with separate teams kinda makes the possibility of a high-tech Numeria-themed thing happening in Pathifnder even MORE unlikely, since that'd require both teams, and there's logistical and scheduling reasons why that's a tough ask these days.
Iron Gods was incredibly well done. I was very leery of running it - it's personal preference but I just don't tend to like fantasy and tech mixing - but it ended up being one of the best APs I ever ran for my group. Just a great story both overall and in all the details of the individual volumes. We'd love to see another one in that vein.
There is something that I would love to see explored more and that's the fleshwarping of the drow. I suppose something like that is more akin to a singular book, but the body horror of it all was something that struck me as deeply "put this into a horror AP."
A little Junji Ito beneath Golarion.
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I want an adventure absolutely filled to the brim with dragons.
interacting with lots of dragon NPCs, hunting evil dragons, crafting dragon scale gear, travelling across the world to experience the varied dragon habitats, and adding more dragon themed character options
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Honestly, I think an Adventure Path that starts at the Magaambya or at least lets the PCs spend some time there would be pretty dope. Provide a Paizo spin on the whole "we're all students at a cool magic school" plot.
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Honestly, I think an Adventure Path that starts at the Magaambya or at least lets the PCs spend some time there would be pretty dope. Provide a Paizo spin on the whole "we're all students at a cool magic school" plot.
I am 1000% on board with this idea. Seriously. I want to play this.
I want to second or third or otherwise lend my voice to a Daemon-focused AP. I love the daemons and their nihilistic attempts to consume the entirety of existence. They're like literal entropy made manifest and that makes them such cool villains to me and unique compared to the other fiends.
Plus, it'd mean we can visit Abaddon and avoid being hunted by roving hordes of Daemons which is just such a cool scenario.
I just think Daemons are neat :)
EDIT: Er, that is all said, of course, after ignoring the likes of Folca because that thing went too far in an already uncomfortable direction that wasn't really consistent with their portrayal up until that point (imo).
We've been kicking around a plot like this for a bit, although it's more a "Establish a trade route through various regions" rather than delivering a single package.
Honestly, I think an Adventure Path that starts at the Magaambya or at least lets the PCs spend some time there would be pretty dope. Provide a Paizo spin on the whole "we're all students at a cool magic school" plot.
I love both of these premises a lot. Developing trade routes and perhaps establishing a trade empire sounds super fun and pretty different from a lot of what's already been done in APs. So does the academy students premise.
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My wishlist for future APs would be:
1) A viking-style campaign with lots of exploration with the later episodes set in Arcadia, Casmaron or Southern Garund.
2) Establishing a diplomatic/trade representation in the Padishah Empire of Kelesh and inadvertently thwarting a plot by some greater evil (maybe Daemons or Rakshasa) to take over the Empire.
3) A Golarion version of the globe-spanning Call of Cthulhu campaigns where the PCs must stop a mad cult from bringing one of the Old Ones to Avistan.
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3) A Golarion version of the globe-spanning Call of Cthulhu campaigns where the PCs must stop a mad cult from bringing one of the Old Ones to Avistan.
Y'know the Playtest modules had this sort of feel and made for a pretty interesting story told over several years. My players had a blast with it, and I would love to see the idea taken into a full AP format.
Also tossing my hat in for a Magaambyan "magic school students" AP.
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I'm on board with magic school AP stuff in general! Magaambyan is good. So is the Acadamae for something a little more lethal. I do think there's a reason everyone is suggesting the Magaambyan approach, though. Characters can come from all different walks of life rather than mostly rich families, it's got a focus on doing good with your magic for an overall heroic tone, we haven't gotten a lot of focus on the region, and I get the impression that it's the most prestigious school.
… Not an adventure path, but I'd love a Lost Omens book dedicated to the different magical academies. At least for me, a magical school game leans a little more "GM created" than "AP", and a book that supports that with a chapter each for the major magical schools (covering some different regions and school focuses) sounds cool. It would also allow some more school archetypes in the vein of the Magaambyan line, as well as some uncommon spells.
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I guess my issue with the magic school AP is "what if someone just wants to play a martial class"?
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There has been far more content about Magaambya since the launch of PF2 than about any other Setting piece except maybe the Hellknights. Even Absalom stuff came later.
And more content than in the whole of PF1 too.
And many people wish for another exploration of Garund more respectful of native cultures.
And people everywhere loved Wakanda.
I would be very surprised and disappointed if we do not get a Magaambya AP in the coming years.
I guess my issue with the magic school AP is "what if someone just wants to play a martial class"?
That's a solid chunk of my "GM created" reasoning, and why I'd be interested in more of a setting book. Recruiting for a one-off casters-only game in whichever edition the GM prefers is pretty easy compared to getting AP traction with something focused on half the classes (or by working in the martial classes, which dilutes the focus a bit).