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Just curious how other people feel about this subject, deal with it, avoid it and so on.
On one hand, I think it's incredibly hard to create a fantasy culture or people that doesn't feel at least somewhat inspired by one that exists in the "real world". Patrick Rothfuss's Adem in "The Kingkiller Chronicles" are a good example, but I'm hard-pressed to find another.
And on another, I feel like...shouldn't we try to celebrate all the awesome stuff that people have done and are in the world? I'd hate to lose those opportunities, but I also don't want to be an ignorant jerk and offend people.
all culture is appropriated, but it can still be used in an exploitative manner which is what most people actually view as wrong when they talk about culture appropriation.
So just don't do that, which should be very simple for a TTRPG amongst your friends.
Based on the opinions and views expressed here I'd say it's a "know your audience" issue. As with anything you feel may be problematic be prepared to pull back/rewrite if anyone is uneasy or unhappy. If the intent is for all involved to have a good time then you need to respect when a piece of content is detrimental to that.
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I'll stick to the narrow-band RPG-related application of the OP.
Both Players and GM's can easily pick out what IRL cultures/peoples/nations/kingdoms/regions that the fantasy authors are using in the various published RPG settings. If player and GM are voluntarily playing in that published setting, it is disingenuous at the least to cry foul and demand changes.
Play in a homebrew world more to your liking & instead choose to be happy.
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Be respectful (and at least somewhat accurate if you're pretending to be) ?
It's hard, building something so new that it manages to not borrow from any real world cultures. It obviously gets all the more difficult when you do it more than once.
What is easier is not building something that's straight up insulting to your inspirations.
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It hasn't really come up. Our world cultures and communities have sprung from how our world functions, and the fantasy setting really pushes against many of the things that shaped our various cultures.
There are a few things that do pop up. Materials available in a region restrict what a community could have made while it was developing, and geography will predict their needs somewhat. And their distance from the equator will probably shift skin color. But most of these things move around with population movements, and tool availability. For example: you know that people who live entirely on plains are going to be able to make stuff out of grass, and be nomadic.
A good way to mix things up is to look at horses rather than people. The political landscape of the world changes with the creatures ability to thrive in the environment. Africa for instance has two major diseases that keep horses from being as useful, by making them harder to breed and shortening their lives. This meant a shorter travel distance and reliance on foreign imports and breeding efforts for most of the country. If the American midwest had the tsetse fly problems of Africa, then European progress west would have slowed considerably.
Boats have a similar impact. If you have good boat building materials, and access to ports, your reach expands dramatically. With the expansion of travel options, your community increases, your ethnic groups grow together and rely on one another, gene pools diversify, and so on and so forth.
Magic is a horse/boat like phenomena regarding it's ability to create and solve problems at an alarming pace. There's a 2nd level druid spell that creates a food bearing plant that can be harvested for wood. Any culture with access to this spell will stop being a plains/subterranean/tundra style community because they have free wood. We also get to check off one of our boat building requirements. Likewise, disease curing spells allow horses into Africa. Not that we need them with the mount spell.
TLDR: If you're having trouble making your communities distinct from real world communities, look at the problems that define them and remove those that shouldn't exist. Then add in the new problems that magic creates or that are intrinsic to a fantasy setting.
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It's sad that when I get off of social media and come to the advice page to look up character builds I'm hit with the same world I need a break from.
Just looking for different perspectives and approaches, that's all.
I don't mean anyone ill, but I've come to see that not having prejudice myself isn't enough. I want to take active measures to stand against such things.As far as my hobbies go, I think a good place to start is to make a conscious effort to avoid being offensive and ignorant.
There are a lot of pretty huge issues in the world. I get that it's draining, overwhelming, etc. But I think questions like this still bear asking. It may be sad, but...that's the world we're in, I guess. Already seeing a lot of interesting takes. But if this isn't a conversation you feel you want to be a part of right now, please don't feel obligated on my count.
All art you make is about you to some extent. It sends out information about who you are. Maybe your friends don't give a damn if the goblins in your games have stereotypical American accents, but it's possible they do and you don't know it. Know your friends, but try to avoid the most embarrassing pitfalls anyway.
Maybe, maybe, there is a way to have an uncomfortable topic in a game story teach a useful truth about the real world or the player's place in it/views on it. Maybe a story that shows some subtle 'soft' racism or implicit bias in the game world that opens the player's eyes to such in the real?
Personally I think that I'd fumble an attempt at that and just come across as a priveledged racist, but I can imagine the possibility.
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I disagree with the privilegist mind set. You shouldn't discriminate against people based on some make believe concept like privilege.
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I have to admit, I don't follow the reasoning behind thinking it would be a good thing to acknowledge that cultural artifacts appear both in the real world and in a fictional world. Treating cultural artifacts as proprietary is how you end up with ancient aliens conspiracy theories in the real world, and in fictional worlds you end up with a lack of internal consistency.
Applying this only to minority groups, or I guess rare cultural artifacts, doesn't really help the issue either.
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I disagree with the privilegist mind set. You shouldn't discriminate against people based on some make believe concept like privilege.
What kind of discussion is it if no alternate viewpoints are allowed?
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The thread is on how one deals with cultural appropriation and creating settings. "I don't believe in it" doesn't address the question OP put forth nor is it helpful.
Actually, that goes straight to the heart of the matter the OP is asking. He said 'it's incredibly hard to create a fantasy culture or people that doesn't feel at least somewhat inspired by one that exists in the "real world".' and 'shouldn't we try to celebrate all the awesome stuff that people have done and are in the world?'
But cultural appropriation theory says that your not allowed to incorporate elements of other cultures because it's a form of cultural theft. Critics of this theory explain that all cultures were formed my taking aspects of other cultures and incorporating them together into a new culture and if that is how all cultures are formed then 'cultural appropriating' is just part of the natural evolution of all cultures and is nothing bad or shameful. If we are not allowed to talk about these things then the OP's answer will never be answered.
However, much like the 'Fist of the Ruby Phoenix' thread I don't think it's appropriate for the environment that Paizo is looking to foster in it's forum and therefore this thread should be locked as well. There are more appropriate forum where one can discuss cultural appropriation and other matters of social justice.
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There are more appropriate forum where one can discuss cultural appropriation and other matters of social justice.
I think the Paizo staff does a pretty good job of policing the forums, for what it's worth.
But in answer to the OP's question, there isn't a clear answer to every situation. You have to use your best (informed) judgment on whether you're being respectful or not. It's worth mention that you have a much smaller audience than someone writing or performing if you're just at your table. So talking with your table is important.
That said, it's worth mention we should try not be jerks to people and be respectful of other cultures. I don't have some magic guidelines on how to do that - I'd be skeptical of anyone who says they do. Whatever that may be.
Cultural appropriation is more than just something people shout about on forums. And sure like anything it can be abused and leveraged as blanket accusation than a meaningful criticism. That's the internet for you. But it doesn't invalidate the fact that minority cultures do get deeply disrespected.
Even if you fail in everything else, you can always be more kind.
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That's not what people talk about when they bring up cultural appropriation and no one has made that claim.
"I don't believe in it" is dismissive to the discussion, it doesn't add anything.
"I don't believe in it" is part of the discussion and I explained why above. Ignoring others contributions and explanations also adds nothing to the conversation. Additionally, it's up to each person to decide what points add something to the conversation for them, you don't get to dictate what does and does not have value.
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"I don't believe in whatever it is we're talking about" is generally a bad faith argument regardless of the subject of discussion.
The question is ultimately "how do I borrow from real world history, mythology, and culture in order to seed my fantasy world in a manner that is positive and not exploitative." Arguing about the nature of the jargon that people use to expedite these sorts of discussions is the opposite of helpful. Additionally "do whatever, lol, nothing matters" is bad advice to give to someone who cares enough to ask in the first place.
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"I don't believe in whatever it is we're talking about" is generally a bad faith argument regardless of the subject of discussion.
I would go so far as to call it borderline trolling. Opinions are opinions but anyone who's been online longer than a week knows what comes after "I disagree fundamentally with the existence of the premise of your question"