Half-orcs, tieflings, and drow are supposed to be the "monstrous races." That's sometimes hard to remember. We get so used to seeing these PCs that their weirdness begins to disappear in a sea of monsters with character levels, awakened animals, and bizarro mounts.
Just take a look at the half-orc racial description. Lines like “many cultures view them as little more than monsters,” “unable even to get normal work,” and “hiding their nature whenever possible” paint a pretty bleak picture. But if you sign up for the standard-issue persecution backstory, I've noticed that that element of play can be overshadowed by the more outlandish party members.
Am I the only one that's experienced this? Is there such a thing as a "weirdness arms race" among PCs? And for the busy GMs of the world, how can you highlight one hero's outsider status when every member of the party is weirder than the next?
I think this sort of campaign tends to develop once people have played enough of the standard humanoids. Either that or it's all about the mechanics and the outlandishness is swept under the carpet.
I can't say that playing in a freakshow has ever appealed to me.
It's funny because I have a Noble Drow character in a game right now, and his background is super simple and straightforward... the Underdark is dirty and wet and gross, and he didn't want to be dirty, wet, or gross so he left.
I actually think that the most outlandish background stories I come up with are for humans... as if I have to explain or justify why there is a human in a fantasy game.
Like, I know I could have been anything, but I chose to be a boring-@$$ human, even though I am already a human in my boring-@$$ life... hear me out, this is why, sort of thing.
I find it exceptionally easy to justify being a Half-Orc in this game setting... well it's either hang out with humans or hang out with Orcs, and humans have better food, strip clubs, smells, beds, chairs, baths, literally freaking everything compared to Orcs, so here I am.
My Half Orc in Iron Gods is an Aberrant Bloodrager, so he's pretty weird.
Having said that I have a Half-Drow (Half-Elf with all the Drow flavoured alternate racial features) Occultist in Carrion Crown. Her back story has her as a total outcast, and she plays pretty shy (and is about to craft herself a Cloak of Human Guise), but the GM hasn't played up the social side of this.
I think this is often a meta-gamed choice to not exclude players based on their character race/class etc. These games are more about fun than anything else, so it depends what the player finds fun. If you enjoy roleplaying a social pariah then go for it, but if you don't it's not something that needs to be enforced.
One thing to remember is that adventurers look pretty intimidating. Does little tavern-owner you really want to bar entry to the muscle-bound half-orc in plate armor and who has a sword that's bigger than you on his back? Backed by three similar people who apparently are his allies and seem ready for war?
Didn't think so!
Having said that I have a Half-Drow (Half-Elf with all the Drow flavoured alternate racial features) Occultist in Carrion Crown. Her back story has her as a total outcast, and she plays pretty shy (and is about to craft herself a Cloak of Human Guise), but the GM hasn't played up the social side of this.
Well, if your village/town/lodge is dealing with ghosts, undead frankenstein-style monsters, or werewolves, a dark-skinned, white-haired elf starts to look pretty tame in comparison.
Although in the case of my shy, half-drow character in Carrion Crown (not kidding!), she was a) hot (high charisma) and b) a Summoner followed around by a big Vegepygmy-style Fungus Monster. And wore shiny armor (mithral breastplate). Shiny armor makes you look heroic!
My experience is that people choose the race that best supports whatever concept they're trying to do.
Usually there's one ability in some race that tends to make it a "go to" for certain concepts.
Exceedingly rare is the GM that would insist on actually having random NPCs be racist unless the purpose of that NPC is to get gunched or be a villain. Imagine being like "hmm I would like to play a half-orc" (who aren't even usually seen as gross monsters in Golarion, usually it's just casual bigotry vs "slay this foul beast!") and your GM is like "okay, but every time you go somewhere new, everyone is going to be racist at you". That isn't fun, on top of being... well, what *kind* of GM would insist on being fantasy racist all the time? Not a good one.
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This sort of thing varies wildly depending on individuals and you can't really put a trend to it. In one group I'm currently playing with, the pcs are two humans, two elves, and a gnome. These are long time players and even though we allow all sorts of species, they rarely play anything unusual.
In a different group I play with, there's one half-elf and the rest are ratfolk, undine, sylph, wyrwood, and monkey goblin. Then in the next game with the same group, we're 5 humans and a vishkanya.
How npcs react to pcs is entirely dependent on the GM. It's exhausting as a GM to give every pc special treatment in npc reactions, and rarely serves the story to do so. Even GMs that initially have npcs react in such ways usually get tired of doing so. You don't need to play out every time you walk into a bar and the locals give you dirty looks.
Prejudice is also something modern game publishers are trying hard to move away from. A lot of their audience play to escape that sort of bs and don't want it in their fantasy.
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Exceedingly rare is the GM that would insist on actually having random NPCs be racist unless the purpose of that NPC is to get gunched or be a villain. Imagine being like "hmm I would like to play a half-orc" (who aren't even usually seen as gross monsters in Golarion, usually it's just casual bigotry vs "slay this foul beast!") and your GM is like "okay, but every time you go somewhere new, everyone is going to be racist at you". That isn't fun, on top of being... well, what *kind* of GM would insist on being fantasy racist all the time? Not a good one.
It's tough. Last time I played a half-orc was my group's RotRL game, and I leaned into the persecution element. It was a "core only" game for a first time GM, so the elements I quoted in the OP were very much top of mind when I was making the guy.
Random sailors in Magnimar gave him a hard time for coming to the wrong bar, and I got hauled in by the watch for loitering in a fancy neighborhood during a stakeout. That mess felt more authentic than "you're a PC, so you'll be treated like everyone else." My racial choice mattered in terms of fiction rather than mechanics. Of course, that was the experience I wanted. Getting a face full of that treatment unexpectedly would be a turnoff for anyone.
What's interesting to me is that it was easier to do that in the OG adventure path rather than my buddy's bonkers homebrew setting.
The real weirdness isn't in what race they're playing... it's when they're playing psychotic neutral.
No, not chaotic neutral. The sort of derangement that leads someone to pay for a horse stabling by SAPPING the stable-hand with a hundred gold, stealing his pants, stuffing them with straw, wearing them as a hat, and charging into the tavern with the thunderous proclamation (in the berries-and-cream voice): "I AM THE RABBIT LORD!!"
There are other examples... but yeah. All hail Cynvanter the Rabbit Lord, a drow fighter.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it depends on the setting. In Middle Earth, an elf, a dwarf and some halflings were looked upon with wonder in the cities of Men. In Star Wars, you can walk into a cantina with 80 people inside and see 50 different species. It's just a matter of how unusual the race is in a given area of a given setting.
My games tend toward subtlety and understatement. Elves are mysterious, beautiful and eerie. Dwarves are secretive and isolated. Tielflings are so rare that they're not a quantifiable percentage of the population. Ratfolk aren't a thing, nor are half-gargoyles, clockwork cat people, centaur cowboys or monocle-and-top hat-wearing orangutans.
In most of my settings, anyway. And in those settings, half-orcs are assumed to be simple-minded brutes, and elves are held in awe. At least, in your typical European-esque village. Travel to the strange and distant lands south or east, and you may well find animals that walk upright and speak in the steaming jungles, or djinn with eyes of fire and faces of stone in the blistering deserts.
...but with all that in mind, I try not to make prejudice, racism and bigotry key elements in any of my games. Those are not themes I have enough personal experience with to handle with any kind of confidence, so I'd rather not handle them beyond the vaguest of nods, lest I bungle them severely and genuinely offend someone.
OMG, I am cynical; my expectation is that my players view every single racial choice I allow in my games as merely a bag of bonuses and traits they pick through on the Lego-model that is their character. As the GM I barely register the weirdness anymore.I sometimes wonder whether there's any use having racial traits other than incredibly obvious ones like low-light/darkvision.
Honestly, sometimes I wish they got rid of race completely (except for RP and cultural stuff) and everything that was a physical manifestation of your character was just a point buy system. I realize that didn't work well in PF1, but that was mostly because there were ways to take penalties you didn't care about to gain stuff you did.
I think it could be attempted again, and could be nicer so any race was equally valid for anything. You just had to pay for whatever special abilities you wanted.
Why do humans have dark vision? Man, you know, magic be crazy.
Agreed. Penalties would have to be options only as part of a specific ability, like your example of gaining dark vision but taking a penalty in bright light.
Ability score for race could just be choose 3 to increase by two with a penalty to any one, or just increases 2 abilities.
We're already pretty close with ability scores being a choose 1 and get 2 with a penalty or just choose 2.
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Playing in a such a world doesn't mean anyone necessarily approves of these elements, only that other worlds are no more perfect than ours.
Or you can do the radical thing and play in a world that has less of all the bad stuff because games are supposed to be, what was the word again, escapism.
But I can see how easy it is not to notice that for some people. "What are we losing by not replicating xenophobia?" is a tough question if you've never experienced it yourself.
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It sure does seem like a position of privilege to try incorporate the disgusting realities of racism into a fantasy game that can otherwise be played perfectly fine without it.
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If you don't want to be called out for advocating for the inclusion of bigotry don't say stuff like "I've always understood that whatever world I'm playing in is not perfect and not the 21st century, so it will have its own issues and its own inequities".
You're playing in a fantasy setting, it doesn't have to include anything of the sort.
I'd be interested in hearing of a fantasy world with no conflict of the "other" is involved. It's so heavily involved in the tropes of the genre, what does that look like?
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Golarion has a full suite of wrongs and evils, which is why organizations like the Bellflower Network and the Eagle Knights exist.
Are you repudiating those aspects of the setting? Are you calling out Paizo for including them in Golarion?
There's including them, which you're right, I don't like, and then there's trying to justify them, which I especially don't like.
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Yeah, monsters are bad. There are bad guys and good guys. There is conflict. Sure.
However, you in no way are required to include a shopkeeper with "particular" views for "particular" races. It's not necessary. It adds nothing to the game.
And you flat out should avoid the issues altogether if your table has literally anyone else besides straight boring white dudes. And, if you are playing with a bunch of white dudes just so you can incorporate those elements... you need professional help.
The honest question is, how hard is it to play the game WITHOUT racism?
Pretty freaking easy, if you ask me. But I'm not racist, so it's pretty freaking easy for me not to be racist.
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If you don't want to be called out for advocating for the inclusion of bigotry don't say stuff like "I've always understood that whatever world I'm playing in is not perfect and not the 21st century, so it will have its own issues and its own inequities".
You're playing in a fantasy setting, it doesn't have to include anything of the sort.
Indeed not. You don't have to include any sort of unpleasantness or evil, like genocide or destruction of the world or evil overlords trying to take over the world. Everything can be sunshine and rainbows and the totally-not-races (because race is racist) live in peace and harmony.
Sometimes people can enjoy s%&#ty stuff in fiction without supporting it IRL in any way.
If you push for something bad like that to be included you are advocating for it.
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In my last home game, I gave everyone 15 point buy, said any race you want, but you get no racial ability modifiers. Instead everyone gets +2 to one mental stat and +2 to one physical stat. I really like how that worked out and will be using it in all my home games from now on. No more picking race based on numbers, it became much more of an aesthetic choice. Interestingly, nobody chose any weird races for that particular game.
Tying race to ability scores serves no useful purpose. The game is better without.
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Most Half Orcs are in fact a result of violent sexual assault.
I've given a lot of thought to this. It seems profoundly effed that the a player character race would be, according to the core rule books, a physical manifestation of the theft of female agency. It's insane. And it's been such a common trope for SO LONG.
I've got two main settings.
In one, orcs and goblins are members of a savage, twisted race, a malignant infection on the world. They have no real culture besides war, no interests or goals apart from their base, near-animal desires. They're Tolkien's orcs.
--in this setting, half-orcs do not exist.
In another, orcs are an old people who have largely shunned the trappings of civilization to keep with their primarily nomadic, shamanistic way of life. I don't want to assign specific real-world cultures to them, but if I had to...they'd be part North American native, part Mongolian nomad, part Cajun, part Gaul?
--in this setting, half-orcs exist, and they are born of consensual union like anyone else.
Most Half Orcs are in fact a result of violent sexual assault.I've given a lot of thought to this. It seems profoundly effed that the a player character race would be, according to the core rule books, a physical manifestation of the theft of female agency. It's insane. And it's been such a common trope for SO LONG.
I've got two main settings.
In one, orcs and goblins are members of a savage, twisted race, a malignant infection on the world. They have no real culture besides war, no interests or goals apart from their base, near-animal desires. They're Tolkien's orcs.
--in this setting, half-orcs do not exist.
In another, orcs are an old people who have largely shunned the trappings of civilization to keep with their primarily nomadic, shamanistic way of life. I don't want to assign specific real-world cultures to them, but if I had to...they'd be part North American native, part Mongolian nomad, part Cajun, part Gaul?
--in this setting, half-orcs exist, and they are born of consensual union like anyone else.
Well said.
I treat Orcs and Goblins exactly the same two ways.
Either they are literal monsters and you hate them because they are really evil, not because they are Orcs or Goblins particularly. They are the very embodiment of total warfare. It's unforgiving scorched earth savagery that cannot be reasoned with. You hate all things so evil, regardless of their race or species.
Or they are just another tribal race that is somewhat mysterious or misunderstood because they have chosen to distance themselves from society. They exist, and their offspring exist, and half-whatever offspring all exist just like everyone else in playable races... or how I imagine literally everything being created unless there is some messed up description saying otherwise.
I don't ever just assume rape is involved. Not even in half-whatever scenarios. Literally not ever the first place my mind goes to.
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While there's a certain level of truth to this, it goes well beyond races. Same is true for classes. We start off with classes that stab people with weapons really well and those that cast spells and Paizo finishes PF1 with chimera shapeshifting, controlling fire, having ghosts live in your head, requiring items of power to cast spells on specific lists, and Batman.
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OMG, I am cynical; my expectation is that my players view every single racial choice I allow in my games as merely a bag of bonuses and traits they pick through on the Lego-model that is their character. As the GM I barely register the weirdness anymore.I sometimes wonder whether there's any use having racial traits other than incredibly obvious ones like low-light/darkvision.Honestly, sometimes I wish they got rid of race completely (except for RP and cultural stuff) and everything that was a physical manifestation of your character was just a point buy system. I realize that didn't work well in PF1, but that was mostly because there were ways to take penalties you didn't care about to gain stuff you did.
I think it could be attempted again, and could be nicer so any race was equally valid for anything. You just had to pay for whatever special abilities you wanted.
Why do humans have dark vision? Man, you know, magic be crazy.
You would probably like GURPS. Whole system is point based.
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Most Half Orcs are in fact a result of violent sexual assault.I've given a lot of thought to this. It seems profoundly effed that the a player character race would be, according to the core rule books, a physical manifestation of the theft of female agency. It's insane. And it's been such a common trope for SO LONG.
I've long since said screw that. In my games, the only ones that believe that is true are the racist humans that are there for the players to fight in a bar brawl. Everyone else, half orcs are as accepted and as normal as everyone else.
Mind you, I have catfolk and wyrwoods as accepted as everyone else too so ...
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I understand that some races are literally meant to be outcasts. The Strix immediately come to mind. Pretty sure they don't even speak Common, they avoid society that much. And are equally avoided by society for the most part.
Even they aren't treated as lesser. Just creepy. And, honestly, the more I read about them, the creepier they get. Arriving in green storms from unheard of lands, and such.
It's more effort to include elements of bigotry than it is to just not do that.
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I feel that there are stories that can be told about inequality and mistrust between two differ people. However, as a game master its important to have everyone on board FOR that kind of story.
You can use RPing as a medium to have serious discussions, but for others it might just be a fun escape. Tailor stories for your group's consumption. If your players are willing and mature enough to handle a darker campaign where they, or those around them, may face persecution from more than just the bald-faced villains then that could be an interesting story.
I know its trite, and probably because I read them when I was younger, but I still enjoy the Drizzt books. There are numerous times where Drizzt struggles with his identity, is profiled by those unfamiliar with him, and is often denied the rewards his success would otherwise earn him. Through this lens we see just how much the world is stacked against him while at the same time learning how to be an ally to him through his relationships with his friends.
Now this is much easier to convey in a book, where you have complete control over the narrative structure, but there is no reason you couldn't set up a campaign to provoke a similar story from your players. Again, just make sure they know what they are getting into and respect their boundaries.
You would probably like GURPS. Whole system is point based.OMG, I am cynical; my expectation is that my players view every single racial choice I allow in my games as merely a bag of bonuses and traits they pick through on the Lego-model that is their character. As the GM I barely register the weirdness anymore.I sometimes wonder whether there's any use having racial traits other than incredibly obvious ones like low-light/darkvision.Honestly, sometimes I wish they got rid of race completely (except for RP and cultural stuff) and everything that was a physical manifestation of your character was just a point buy system. I realize that didn't work well in PF1, but that was mostly because there were ways to take penalties you didn't care about to gain stuff you did.
I think it could be attempted again, and could be nicer so any race was equally valid for anything. You just had to pay for whatever special abilities you wanted.
Why do humans have dark vision? Man, you know, magic be crazy.
I've looked at it before, that system is a little too free form for my tastes.