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Freshly announced on today's stream! I figured I'd hurry up and get us a thread.
EDIT: More content for leshies, hobgoblins, and iruxi, plus a bunch of new ancestries - geniekin, androids, sprites, kitsune, fleshwarps, fetchlings all mentioned.
Call me crazy, but is that Meyanda from Iron Gods on the cover? They're an android, the hair color is close, and the outfit is identical... I'd be tickled if so, and if she became our "iconic" android. Double bonus points if she's a cleric of Cassandalee!
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KITSUNE ARE COMING!!!!!!
*tries to dance but is so excited my muscles seize up and I just end up knocking over the furniture*
YEAH!!!!!!
hooray for this book!
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Great!
...but where is nice little Grippli?
If the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide is going to be the only Ancestry book for a while, and I can definitely see why that would be the case, then I'm Pretty sure there won't be a section on how to create your own ancestries. It could be there, but I don't think that's the book they'd choose to include it in. The Lost Omens line is just so much smaller in scope than the rulebook line, and that they deliberately decided to not have a focus on the core ancestries does not make it sound like it will be one of the double sized ones. And that they didn't have room for shoonies or Anadi.
I'm curious how much page space they're dedicating to each ancestry. Obviously the base ancestry entries will be there for the new ones, but I assume they'll get the same amount of expansion that the core ancestries got in the Lost Omens Character Guide. edit: so roughly 10 pages for a new ancestry, 6 for an already released one, 1 or 2 for each of the core ones, and I'm not sure how much for a heritage. 4 maybe for a new one and 2 for a released one? If the APG ancestries are included in this, then we're already looking at 128 pages with those plus the ones Keiftiu listed (assuming my numbers are accurate).
Great!
...but where is nice little Grippli?
It's possible they're in but just weren't announced. But just to tide you over:
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I hope that an Android Sensibility Consultant will be brought on this - far too much of both sides slinging "fleshies" and "trashcans" at each other lately.
Wait, is this 2020? Oh, sorry, I thought I've calibrated the machine for 2040, my bad. 2020 was that year with a global pandemic first and then ... oh, it's May, they haven't awakened yet. Whoops, you're in for a wild ride! *vanishes*
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If the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide is going to be the only Ancestry book for a while, and I can definitely see why that would be the case, then I'm Pretty sure there won't be a section on how to create your own ancestries.
In one of the streams for Paizocon it was pointed out that since they put the Shoony in the back of an AP volume, there's really no designated space for ancestries- they can go anywhere they can be fit in. If the PCs go to a place, and there's an unusual ancestry specific to that place, they can just put that in the book.
But I agree there's not going to be a "create an ancestry" section in the LOAG. For one thing, that should be in a GM facing book more than a player facing one (so like GMG2).
Or just in a longer book that has the page count for both player and gm content, like the Advanded Race Guide in PF1 was. Given that they'd like to not simply redo their PF1 line, yes, I think a GMG2 sounds likelier than an Advanded Ancestry, but we'll see what direction they take over the years.
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I really like this as a way for Paizo to really pack a major degree of Golarion-specific, unique ancestries in here! Androids, fleshwarps, sprites... really highlights how this is not the same as D&D or the other competitors. Dig it.
Do we want to share what we're hoping to see in it? Because I'm hoping to see Nagaji, Ghoran, and Wyrwood details within.
Drow would be nice.
But Drow are Cavern Elves.
They're elves who come from underground and they have darkvision. Drow are a subset of "All Elves who are Cavern Elves".
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In PF1, an elf can take darkvision as an alternate racial trait. And even if she comes from somewhere underground, that still doesn't make her a drow. Why should it in PF2?
That's the reason that the heritage is "cavern elf" not "drow" since there are other subterranean elves who are not drow.
All drow are cavern elves, not all cavern elves are drow.
If there was a specific subculture of elves that live in the woods with a rich and detailed history, they would still be "Woodland Elves"- we wouldn't need a new heritage for that.
Creative Director
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Cavern elves are not drow. Drow are not cavern elves. "Cavern elf" is an ancestry for PCs who want to be elves who live underground but are not drow. If we intended cavern elves to be drow, we would have called that out specifically in the entry for the cavern elf heritage and in the drow entry in the Bestiary.
When we do drow as a PC ancestry it'll be its own thing... either its own ancestry or (more likely) a set of elf heritages.
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I posted this elsewhere but since it has some relevancy here as well I figured it wouldn’t hurt to add it.
Below I have identified an Ancestry and translated the 1E Sub-Races to their current representation in Second Edition, to the best of my ability. The 1E Sub-Race mechanic appears in parentheses next to the current 2E representation. At the end of each Ancestry is a list of the 1E Races or Sub-Races for that Ancestry that do not have equivalent representation in the 2E Ancestry, Heritage, Ancestry Feat and Linage rules, at this time (as far as I can tell).
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
Duergar
Ergaksen
Five Kings (was Sky Citadel Dwarf)
Grondaksen (was Deep Delver)
Holtaksen (was Mountain Dwarf)
Kulenett (was Desert Dwarf)
Mbe’ke (was Mwangi Dwarf)
Ouat (was Ouat Caste Dwarf)
Pahmet (was Pahmet Dwarf)
Paraheen (was Paraheen Dwarf)
Taralu (was Mwangi Dwarf)
Vahird
Heritages:
Ancient-Blooded Dwarf (was Elder Dwarf)
Anvil Dwarf
Death Warden Dwarf
Elemental Heart Dwarf
Forge Dwarf
Oathkeeper Dwarf
Rock Dwarf
Strong-Blooded Dwarf
No Equivalent
Exiled Dwarf
What’s missing?
The Exiled Dwarf Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Duergar need an adjustment to the base Dwarf stats to include “Light Blindness” plus something to offset that drawback and a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
Alijae
Aquatic (was Aquatic Elf)
Auideen
Drow
Ekujae (was Ekujae Elf)
Forlorn (was Forlorn Elf, now Elf Ancestry Feat)
Ilverani (was Snowcaster Elf)
Jinin (was Jininese Elf)
Kallijae
Mualijae
Spiresworn (was Spiresworn Elf)
Vourinoi
Heritages:
Ancient Elf
Arctic Elf (was Arctic Elf)
Cavern Elf
Desert Elf
Seer Elf
Whisper Elf
Woodland Elf
No Equivalent:
Dusk Elf
Savage Elf
Tower Elf
What’s missing?
Dusk Elf would translate well as a Heritage. Dusk Elves are Elves whose bodies have adapted to take on aspects of the night instead of more traditional environmental surroundings.
Aquatic Elves have yet to receive a proper cultural name (i.e. Ilverani, etc.) and will need an adjustment to the base Elf stats to include the “Aquatic” and/or “Amphibious” Trait, a swim speed and possibly a drawback limiting the amount of time spent out of water.
The Tower Elf Sub-Race translates well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Savage Elf Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Drow need an adjustment to the base Elf stats to include “Light Blindness” plus something to offset that drawback and a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
Bleachlings (was Bleachlings)
Fell (was Dread Gnome)
First World (was First World Gnome)
Feychild
Glimmer
Keenspark
Spriggan
Svirfneblin
Heritages:
Chameleon Gnome
Fey-Touched Gnome
Sensate Gnome
Umbral Gnome
Vivacious Gnome
Wellspring Gnome
No Equivalent:
Gear Gnome
Lava Gnome
Segada Gnome
Traveler Gnome
What’s missing?
First World Gnomes will need the “Fey” Trait and rules clearly stating they do not die in the traditional sense when on the First World Plane and explains what does happen.
The Svirfneblin (Deep Gnomes) need an adjustment to the base Gnome stats swapping out “Low-Light Vision” for “Darkvision” and a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
The Spriggan needs a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
The Segada Gnome Sub-Race will likely not get translated as a Heritage as it is more a specific location that people are from than a Heritage.
Traveler Gnome would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
Gear Gnome would translate well as either a Heritage or an Ancestry Feat. As a Heritage I could see Gear Gnomes having different metallic tones in their hair and skin and a fascination with mechanical things.
Lava Gnome translates well as a Heritage, however, they need an adjustment to the base Gnome stats swapping out “Low-Light Vision” for “Darkvision” and a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
And finally Bleachlings, which are a bit more difficult. I could see Bleachlings as either a Heritage that is allowed as a second Heritage, or as a Heritage that replaces the original Heritage (limited to Gnome Heritages that are susceptible to bleaching). Does anyone know if the child of two Bleachling Gnomes is also a Bleachling?
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
Forest Goblins
Frost Goblins
Monkey Goblins
Mutant Goblins
Rasp Goblins
Heritages:
Charhide Goblin
Irongut Goblin
Razortooth Goblin
Snow Goblin
Tailed Goblin
Treedweller Goblin
Unbreakable Goblin
No Equivalent:
Kijimuna
Oversized
What’s missing?
Mutant Goblin is likely to be a series of Ancestry Feats that players can pick and choose from as the gain Ancestry Feats.
The Oversized Goblin Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat and is would fit well as an Ancestry Feat in the Mutant Goblin series of Ancestry Feats.
The Kijimuna would translate well as a Heritage but needs a few Ancestry Feats for them to be fully represented.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
Chelaxian (was Slave Born)
Jaric
Mihrini (was Nomadic)
Othobans
Song’o (was Song’o Halfings)
Uhlams
Heritages:
Gusty Halfling
Hillock Halfling
Nomadic Halfling (was Nomadic)
Observant Halfling
Twilight Halfling
Wildwood Halfling
No Equivalent:
Segadan Halflings
Avenging
What’s missing?
The Segadan Halflings Sub- Race will likely not get translated as a Heritage as it is more a specific location that people are from than a Heritage.
The Avenging Halfling Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
A Large Quantity
Heritages:
Half-Elf
Half-Orc
Skilled Heritage
Versatile Heritage (was Versatile Human)
Wintertouched Human
No Equivalent:
Cosmopolitan
Country Folk
Gutter Rat
Imperious Human
Trailblazer
What’s missing?
Most of the 1E Human Sub-Races appear to function better as Ancestry Feats. For example a player might start as a “Gutter Rat” and later become “Imperious” while retaining the experience and knowledge from both life situations.
The Cosmopolitan Human Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat or Background.
The Country Folk Human Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat or Background.
The Gutter Rat Human Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat or Background.
The Imperious Human Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat or Background.
The Trailblazer Human Sub-Race would translate well as a Heritage and fits thematically with the Versatile and Skilled Heritages.
No Equivalent:
Shoreborn
Wildborn
Elf-Raised
Darkborn
Human-Raised
Spireborn
Snowborn
What’s missing?
The Human-Raised Half-Elf Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Elf-Raised Half-Elf Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
Linages - A new mechanic called Linages was recently revealed to be in the Advanced Players Guide and will likely cover the following:
Shoreborn
Wildborn
Darkborn
Spireborn
Snowborn
(Sunborn? “Desert Elf”, Nightborn? “Dusk Elf”)
No Equivalent:
Arena-Bred
Gloomkin
Deep Kin
Sandkin
Feral
Rainkin
Mountain Clan
Cragkin
Mystic
Frostkin
What’s missing?
The Arena-Bred Half-Orc Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Feral Half-Orc Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Mountain Clan Half-Orc Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Deep Kin (Renamed Deep Clan) Half-Orc Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
The Mystic Half-Orc Sub-Race would translate well as an Ancestry Feat.
Linages - A new mechanic called Linages was recently revealed to be in the Advanced Players Guide and will likely cover the following:
Gloomkin
Sandkin
Rainkin
Cragkin
Frostkin
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
No Specifics – Text discusses geographic locations where major groups are found but does not identify specific cultural groups. For example we do not if there are cultural groups that identify in a way similar to Human cultural groups such as Ulfen or Taldan.
Heritages:
Cliffscale
Frilled
Sandstrider
Unseen
Wetlander
No Equivalent:
None – No Sub-Races previously identified.
What’s missing?
Lizard Scions are rare Iruxi who have double the normal Iruxi lifespan and can grow to size large instead of medium. This would work well as a rare Heritage with Ancestry Feat options.
Honorable Mention:
Muckdweller – This Amphibian/Reptilian Ancestry has little known information other than they live in marshes and live near and/or ally with Iruxi communities living in similar environments. Presumably this means they are found on Garund.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
No Specifics – Text discusses geographic locations where major groups are found but does not identify specific cultural groups. For example we do not if there are cultural groups that identify in a way similar to Human cultural groups such as Ulfen or Taldan.
Heritages:
Elfbane
Runtboss
Smokeworker
Warmarch
Warrenbred
No Equivalent:
None – No Sub-Races previously identified.
What’s missing?
Kanabo are children of Hobgoblins and Ja Noi, Oni. These Half-Hobgoblin and Half-Ja Noi, Oni children are not dissimilar to Half-Elves or Half-Orcs. The Kanabo would work well as a Hobgoblin Heritage.
Cultural Groups that have appeared in text thus far:
No Specifics – Text discusses geographic locations where major groups are found but does not identify specific cultural groups. For example we do not if there are cultural groups that identify in a way similar to Human cultural groups such as Ulfen or Taldan.
Heritages:
Fungus
Gourd
Leaf
Vine
No Equivalent:
None – No Sub-Races previously identified.
What’s missing?
All of the following types of Leshy have been mentioned in text and all would work well as Heritages.
Cactus
Flytrap
Fruit
Lichen
Lotus
Root
Seaweed
Seed
Snapdragon
Sunflower
I posted this elsewhere but since it has some relevancy here as well I figured it wouldn’t hurt to add it.
Below I have identified an Ancestry and translated the 1E Sub-Races to their current representation in Second Edition, to the best of my ability. The 1E Sub-Race mechanic appears in parentheses next to the current 2E representation. At the end of each Ancestry is a list of the 1E Races or Sub-Races for that Ancestry that do not have equivalent representation in the 2E Ancestry, Heritage, Ancestry Feat and Linage rules, at this time (as far as I can tell).
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Thank you.
They are likely to be variable heritages.
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I agree that they'll definitely be Variable Heritages, but I would not be at all surprised if they were five Variable Heritages rather than one. Marids and Efreet are significantly more different from each other than Archons and Azata are, and having separate Heritages to reflect that would make sense.
They might also go with only one, but I wouldn't assume that to be the case just because Tiefling and Aasimar are each one, after all those were single Races in PF1 as well while the 'genie-kin' were five Races.
Super excited for geniekin (especially Oread, love earth themed stuff), androids (wonder how rare they'll be, and if they'll be closer to starfinder androids or pf1 androids? I hope more like starfinder in that they can live forever through repair if they choose to, but guessing it'll be more like pf1 where they 'reset' after 100 or so years), and fleshwarps. Fleshwarps I have no real idea what to expect, just crazy mutations, which really makes my imagination go wild.
Seeing as how that's exactly what they did for Tiefling and Aasimar...They weren't lumped under an umbrella term, though, which was my worry. All of these are called "geniekin," and my concern was that we'd get a single variable heritage called Geniekin, with an ancestry feat linking to each of the four, with no pick defaulting to jannie or whatnot.
That's my worry but I don't think it'll happen.
They actually are though: Planar Scion.
Hmm. I hadn't considered the possibility that Geniekin might be one big variable ancestry with individual 1st level feats defining exactly which one you are, and by default you'd be a Janni.
I don't think they'll do that, but after reading your post I can see how it can be done that way. Level 1 would be you pick of the bunch, level 5 some kind of movement and/or resistance, some elemental attacks, a defense or HP boost, primal innate spells, the 17th level ability to grant an extremely limited wish. I can even see one or two upsides; if they ever open up the number of geniekin to more than the 5 we have now, it would be a lot easier to introduce a new ancestry feat or 3 instead of an entire variable heritage.
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It's most likely gonna be 5 different versatile heritages for each type of Geniekin, given Bestiary 2 has a trait for each kind of Geniekin and not just a single "Geniekin" one. It follows the format for the other versatile heritages that were first shown in Bestiary 1, so that's what I'm betting on.
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Hey, here's one! I guess it's not really a huge surprise, but I figured people would like to hear it. Geniekin are each separate versatile heritages. So, ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines each have their own unique set of ancestry feats, including lineages. :)
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Thats amazing, I'm suddenly glad we dedicated an entire continent's worth of space for them in the world my friend and I are working on.
Does anyone remember if someone, somewhere, confirmed fetchlings? I could have sworn they had, but I can't recall when/where.
Edit: Nevermind, I found a post on my discord-- it was mentioned in one of the announcement streams, so yes for those who don't know yet FETCHLINGS
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It's weird to me that beastkin can't get a claws attack. Is it weird to anyone else that beastkin can't get a claws attack?
I think they just ran out of room with all the feats to turn into an animal form taking up so much space.
Tell lots of people to buy this book, so there is a follow up.
Or beg Luis Losa to release a free supplement which says "y'all can get claws"
I will probably just nick Form of the Fiend and just say Beastkin can get that in my home game, but obviously not the best solution with PFS being a thing.
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A friend got their copy and shared, and all I wanna say is: the Android section justifies the price of admission, and makes my Iron Gods-loving self very, very happy.
Also, that preview of Droon is just mean - it’s cruel to make it sound so cool!
on page 107 there is an oread with paws.....what is it?
I'm curious about the Sprite race. Are they tiny flying fairies? If so, are they still balanced as a normal party member?