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Also, I am 100% going to end up making a Fighter/Beastmaster. Yes, his name will be Dar. Fight me.
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As a dental professional, I feel compelled to point out that vampires have elongated *canine* teeth not *incisor* teeth. Incisors are the flat ones in the front that you use to cut with. Canines are the spike shaped teeth you use to tear with, just to each side of the 4 front teeth.
Admittedly, some people do envision vampires as having elongated central incisors. But I think your classic vampires always have elongated canines.
One thing that stood out to me- getting an innate spell with the incapacitation trait is really bad. The dhampir's charm ability only "works" on 1-2 level creatures and they get it at 5th. Anything relevant needs to crit-fail for any effect.
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One thing that stood out to me- getting an innate spell with the incapacitation trait is really bad. The dhampir's charm ability only "works" on 1-2 level creatures and they get it at 5th. Anything relevant needs to crit-fail for any effect.
Considering their could be options to increase innate spell proficiency in this book, it might be fine.
Spells do better than class abilities with incapacitation so it at least works against one level above enemies on the odd levels.
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One thing that stood out to me- getting an innate spell with the incapacitation trait is really bad. The dhampir's charm ability only "works" on 1-2 level creatures and they get it at 5th. Anything relevant needs to crit-fail for any effect.Considering their could be options to increase innate spell proficiency in this book, it might be fine.
Spells do better than class abilities with incapacitation so it at least works against one level above enemies on the odd levels.
Dhampir's Charm specified it's always first level, so it's always suffering against level 3+ enemies, even when you're level 20.
One thing that stood out to me- getting an innate spell with the incapacitation trait is really bad. The dhampir's charm ability only "works" on 1-2 level creatures and they get it at 5th. Anything relevant needs to crit-fail for any effect.It's not a very useful combat ability, but it might have some out-of-combat use. I would probably let you cast it a few more times a day, which fits nicely with vampire tropes.
Maybe you would, but the ability specifically says it's only once per day. That's not great if you're trying to use it even on most of the NPCs in the GMG.
Unless the developers give us an archetype or a feat that lets you heighten innate spells (giving us a good specific-over-general ability), this is gonna be a very dead-from-the-start ancestry feat.
EDIT: Paizo's Twitter made a tweet out about the article, and noted there's been a shift in the dhampir spread, as the article was written before the APG was finalized. That gives me hope some of these once-per-day innate spells will have been adjusted.
Dhampir's Charm specified it's always first level, so it's always suffering against level 3+ enemies, even when you're level 20.One thing that stood out to me- getting an innate spell with the incapacitation trait is really bad. The dhampir's charm ability only "works" on 1-2 level creatures and they get it at 5th. Anything relevant needs to crit-fail for any effect.Considering their could be options to increase innate spell proficiency in this book, it might be fine.
Spells do better than class abilities with incapacitation so it at least works against one level above enemies on the odd levels.
I had indeed missed that part.
EDIT: Paizo's Twitter made a tweet out about the article, and noted there's been a shift in the dhampir spread, as the article was written before the APG was finalized. That gives me hope some of these once-per-day innate spells will have been adjusted.
Here's hoping there's something to your hypothesis. That would make sense.
At the very least, they could have just added a 5th level Ancestry Feat that changes the "level 1" portion and I think it'd be decent.
I've heard that the previewed Dhampir isn't necessarily final, which is good because Night Magic's Animal Form also suffers from not being heightenable. Particularly the natural attack, though the AC (16+level) will also fall off hard as your level increases.
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Do we perhaps think that there may be a higher level Ancestry Feat for D that improves their Charm Innate Spell or perhaps even leans into the whole "Charming Vamp" trope at or around mid-level? Perhaps an Ancestry Feat that grants them Dominate 1/day and causes the Charm to be usable 3/day while also being automatically heightened?
There's been an update on Paizo's Facebook informing that the Dhampir spread wasn't final when it was sent over to GTM, so there could be some changes.
Oh, that's nice to hear. I'll be fine if there's a feat or two I'd consider dead (especially on a universal heritage that can just take from the other parent), but it's always pleasant if there are fewer feats like that.
So like the article says, what Pathfinder character are you excited to build, and what stories do you want to tell?
Playing a Kelish sword & board Fighter in an Age of Ashes game. Dragon Scholar background. Because he grew up as the son of a merchant, travelling the deserts of Qadira, dreaming of great things. Like Dragons and gaining some of their power, wealth and prestige for himself.
Of course, not only does a lowly caravan guard hardly make enough money to pay for magic lessons, he would be hard pressed to find a teacher to stoop so low as to teach the son of a mere itinerant merchant.
So, after coming to the conclusion that he has already read all the books about Dragons that cycle around the various merchants, being bought, read, then resold again, he needs to travel to learn more Dragon lore. And if that means he has to walk the path of the Hero, so be it.
And while he is going to multiclass Wizard, becoming a Dragon Disciple is a natural choice for him obviously. Looking forward to it.
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The new stuff looks awesome, and the obscene object oriented-ness of PF 2 is beautiful to behold. The modularity of it all makes me want to over indulge in archetypes until my character is optimised for dinner parties. Bring on the new book already!
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Wow, grave soil leshies, dhampir witches, mutant tieflings, dhampir vigilantes, nymph sorcerers, absent-minded investigators, sword and board dragon scholar dragon disciples (and more!). So many cool ideas just since the last time I checked this thread!
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The new stuff looks awesome, and the obscene object oriented-ness of PF 2 is beautiful to behold. The modularity of it all makes me want to over indulge in archetypes until my character is optimised for dinner parties. Bring on the new book already!
That is the goal. Top-down, object-oriented modularity to make it so easy to plug and play, or to change something for your group without ripple effects. I have a personal goal to make players and GMs more comfortable with flexing their inner designers and houseruling and homebrewing things confidently, and our design for the game helps a lot with that.
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I'm hoping for new bombs and mutagens for alchemists -- there's got to be something that could be interesting between level 3 and level 11!
Also, will there be Class Roadmaps (from the Building Encounters chapter of the GMG) for the new classes? Maybe as a web supplement? I'm currently converting old adventures from Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and that section has been invaluable.
I'm pretty excited to see what my first pathfinder character ever (a mist child changeling archer monk) looks like in the new system. Most of the details that made her distinctive were non-mechanical, but it'd be nice to play Éclat again.
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That is the goal. Top-down, object-oriented modularity to make it so easy to plug and play, or to change something for your group without ripple effects. I have a personal goal to make players and GMs more comfortable with flexing their inner designers and houseruling and homebrewing things confidently, and our design for the game helps a lot with that.
The modularity is the coolest thing abound 2nd edition for me. And its impact really starts to show with the APG content. The balancing feels more intuitive now (like monster creation), making homebrew feel less intimidating. Also, as the framework relaxes, role play and narrative become more natural, which is great.
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Since I didn't comment this part in my last post, I do already have a few characters lined up for some point post-APG. Some more interesting than others.
- Tiefling Wizard, bit of a self-insert character I just kinda want to run again. May or may not have the Vigilante archetype, depending on how it looks, her previous incarnation had a bit of me letting out my inner magical girl.
- Dhampir [not sure on class yet], also may or may not have Vigilante archetype, depending on whether I can use Vig archetype to do the split personality thing I had planned for her PF1e incarnation that at this point I'm not sure I'll ever be able to actually play ^.^; She was originally lined up to be a Warlock Vig, with one personality favoring weapons and the other favoring magic. The whole archetype feat locking might actually wind up working against me if I don't modify that though, given casters in PF2e tend to not be great at weapons and trying to blend the two would clash with the Vig archetype (assuming it works for the purposes.) Push comes to shove (and especially if the Vig thing doesn't work out for my purposes) I might wind up just making the personalities a flavor thing and just do Fighter (or something, Monk might work for the Noir, especially since getting bitey is an Unarmed Strike) MC Bard or Sorcerer.
- Changeling. That's as far as I've gotten, but Changelings were by far my favorite race in PF1e, so of course I'm gonna probably play many Changelings in the future.
I may also take some of the planar scions and match them with appropriate Sorcerer Bloodlines (Aasimar with Celestial, Tiefling with the relevant Fiend, various elemental Scions with the appropriate Elemental, etc) because I like leaning into the thematics like that.
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On complete side note, I forgot if I ever told my dream tiefling character I'm gonna create if I ever find campaign appropriate for them xP(aka Kaer Maga campaign, let's face it) on paizo.com I mean
So basically, I wanna create qlippoth spawn tiefling based on chernobue qlippoth: sickly pale skin, tadpole shaped head, vertical mouth with needle teeth, large eyes on top of each other vertically and long lanky shape with long boneless fingers and voice like salad finger.
They'd be really nice guy assuming they can survive anywhere in the world with that appearance :p I was thinking they'd be shop keeper
...Yeah, I wasn't kidding about digging the horrific fiendish mutant tiefling aesthetic :P
That is the goal. Top-down, object-oriented modularity to make it so easy to plug and play, or to change something for your group without ripple effects. I have a personal goal to make players and GMs more comfortable with flexing their inner designers and houseruling and homebrewing things confidently, and our design for the game helps a lot with that.
Very appreciative on this. As fun as it has been to play in Golarion for a bit, I'm still itching to retool my homebrew world of Oustra with custom options and running games there again.
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Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?
Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?
Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
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Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.
Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
Brings me back to the Sacred Outlaw feat from Dragon Mag, which had to be crazy broken powerwise to try to make the combo work (but ended up being probably too strong for Rogue 3/Cleric X, due to Cleric's strength).
EDIT: As for new characters to make, Kobold kobold Kobold! Particularly excited for alchemical options, possibly poison specialties. That and scaling weapon and armor proficiencies on non-standard classes.
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Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
I changed my mind. This is the character I want to make.
A Sacred Rogue Dhampir that works for the church as an assassin of evil creatures (with a specialty for Vampires because why not). A Dash of Shadow Dancer just to be a little extra.
Yep, divine Rogue was definitely what came to mind for me. It'll be nice to have something closer to Rogue for that than PF1's Inquisitor!
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Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
I am looking at you skinsaw cultists... :-)
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I am looking at you skinsaw cultists... :-)Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
Yep, I was too!
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Dhampirs get negative healing. That seems like a big deal in 2E, rendering a lone Dhampir a little difficult to play and making an all-Dhampir party super dangerous against non-undead.Dhampirs always has negative healing, even in PF1.
In PF1 when you channel energy, positive or negative, by default you chose per use whether that burst heals or damages. A positive channeling Cleric chose to either harm the undead within his burst or to heal the living within his burst, but did not get both effects on the same use.
So a 1E Dhampir in a party with a positive channeller wasn't potentially damaged when that channeller was healing allies.
In 2E the three action version of Heal or Harm each specifies that "This targets all living and undead creatures in the burst."
So a 2E Dhampir in a party with non-Dhampir risks damage if he's in the radius of any three action Heal, which sounds like a decent inconvenience.
By the same token, though, a party of Dhampirs fighting non-undead, loves 2E Harm, the three action version of which heals all party members in the radius and has the potential to damage all enemies within the radius.
A party made up of negative font Dhampir war priest Clerics would wreck face against any living opponents with a ton of Harms to not only heal them, but damage enemies, and would still have pretty decent martial prowess to fall back on if they found themselves fighting undead.
Also, I believe Soothe doesn’t have a positive or negative alignment tag, which would mean it dhampirs can be healed by it.
Looks like you're right about Soothe, which helps some.
Yep, I was too!I am looking at you skinsaw cultists... :-)Plus there's a lot of deities who might employ some kind of "sacred rogue" that you can cover with a divine version. In PF1, they were often a multiclassed cleric/rogue NPC (or PC) that often wasn't terribly effective, even if it was very thematic.Something I just noticed, in addition to the Arcane Archer being renamed the Eldritch Archer, the Arcane Trickster is now the Eldritch Trickster. Maybe this means they will also be able to choose a tradition?Eldritch Archer definitely can, so I presume Eldritch Trickster can as well. With the Arcane/Occult split, anything Rogue-like is gonna want to at least choose between those, and at that point it makes sense to allow Primal and Divine so folks can make more varied characters.
My Hell's Rebels ones became Sanctified Slayer Inquisitors. A massive power up but it is conceptually trickier to justify that many inquisitors compared to rogues. Even "Eldritch trickster" ones
I admit I didn't consider the implication of "eldritch" in the archetypes until it was mentioned in this thread.
But interesting potential for the Magus as well. Unless that becomes conceptually tied to the wizard - but I assume not.
Given Eldritch Archer it seems like "Eldritch Blade" could be the route for Magus. Perhaps the Archer will be a kind of test run?
The more I think of the implications of the Eldritch rogue of different traditions the more I like...
Primal becomes a fey inspired trickster. Obviously gnome works well here but so could something more akin to the "traditional" rather than paizo interpretation of changeling (abandoned by fairies)
The new stuff looks awesome, and the obscene object oriented-ness of PF 2 is beautiful to behold. The modularity of it all makes me want to over indulge in archetypes until my character is optimised for dinner parties. Bring on the new book already!That is the goal. Top-down, object-oriented modularity to make it so easy to plug and play, or to change something for your group without ripple effects. I have a personal goal to make players and GMs more comfortable with flexing their inner designers and houseruling and homebrewing things confidently, and our design for the game helps a lot with that.
As a curiosity, what kind of word/page count range do you shoot for with a new class? They feel roughly equivalent to a later PF1 class (or about 4-5 PF1 core classes), but I’m curious if internally you saw spacing changes.
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As a curiosity, what kind of word/page count range do you shoot for with a new class? They feel roughly equivalent to a later PF1 class (or about 4-5 PF1 core classes), but I’m curious if internally you saw spacing changes.The new stuff looks awesome, and the obscene object oriented-ness of PF 2 is beautiful to behold. The modularity of it all makes me want to over indulge in archetypes until my character is optimised for dinner parties. Bring on the new book already!That is the goal. Top-down, object-oriented modularity to make it so easy to plug and play, or to change something for your group without ripple effects. I have a personal goal to make players and GMs more comfortable with flexing their inner designers and houseruling and homebrewing things confidently, and our design for the game helps a lot with that.
The ones in the CRB can give you a good idea. Classes deserve at least that much pagecount because they are that important to the play experience, and they are so closely aligned to a character's identity, which in turn aligns to player's identity when the player identifies with that character.
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I admit I didn't consider the implication of "eldritch" in the archetypes until it was mentioned in this thread.
But interesting potential for the Magus as well. Unless that becomes conceptually tied to the wizard - but I assume not.
Given Eldritch Archer it seems like "Eldritch Blade" could be the route for Magus. Perhaps the Archer will be a kind of test run?
Or... hear me out on this... "Eldritch Knight." It's even a term that already exists in lore, thanks to the Prestige Class... and IIRC the Iconic Eldritch Knight even became the Iconic Magus when the class was made.
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Still hoping for a weapon summoning archetype. By my count, we've had 19 archetypes spoiled so far (out of 40). That being said, the eldritch archetypes might be able to summon a weapon, or maybe the focus spells a ranger get... not to mention any of the additional class options.
Even if we don't get it this time around, it's only a matter of time. I know it's a popular hope. And the way Paizo listens to its playerbase, it won't be long!
Or... hear me out on this... "Eldritch Knight." It's even a term that already exists in lore, thanks to the Prestige Class... and IIRC the Iconic Eldritch Knight even became the Iconic Magus when the class was made.I admit I didn't consider the implication of "eldritch" in the archetypes until it was mentioned in this thread.
But interesting potential for the Magus as well. Unless that becomes conceptually tied to the wizard - but I assume not.
Given Eldritch Archer it seems like "Eldritch Blade" could be the route for Magus. Perhaps the Archer will be a kind of test run?
Of course. That is what I get for posting so late at night
I’d also like to see a generic theurge class that can blend traditions. Halcyon speaker does this for primal and arcane. So unless we get something unique for each combo a theurge does the trick?
Although thinking about it perhaps they should be unique.
The traditional arcane/divine should be something nethys based
Primal / occult i would expect to be something hag based?
Occult and divine I am not sure
Still hoping for a weapon summoning archetype. By my count, we've had 19 archetypes spoiled so far (out of 40). That being said, the eldritch archetypes might be able to summon a weapon, or maybe the focus spells a ranger get... not to mention any of the additional class options.
Even if we don't get it this time around, it's only a matter of time. I know it's a popular hope. And the way Paizo listens to its playerbase, it won't be long!
Summoning Weapons if it can be done turn to turn can be extremely strong just for the sheer fact that traits provide so many options.
That’d be a super awesome concept for the magus to get if it eventually came.
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Still hoping for a weapon summoning archetype. By my count, we've had 19 archetypes spoiled so far (out of 40). That being said, the eldritch archetypes might be able to summon a weapon, or maybe the focus spells a ranger get... not to mention any of the additional class options.
Even if we don't get it this time around, it's only a matter of time. I know it's a popular hope. And the way Paizo listens to its playerbase, it won't be long!
Summoning Weapons if it can be done turn to turn can be extremely strong just for the sheer fact that traits provide so many options.
That’d be a super awesome concept for the magus to get if it eventually came.
How would you deal with runes? I think if it heightened to automatically include them that would be way too powerful due to the money saved being easily useable elsewhere.
Weapons automatically apply runes off your equipped Handwraps? Maybe a focus spell to swap property runes, but power level determined by whatever rune you already have.
I don't see it being that much different than most polymorphs. Pf1 had a few options for weapon summoning. But yeah there would have to be definite limitations.
Eldritch archer has my attention. I wonder if they could get a certain number of magical arrows per day for free or the like.