How can I get high critable damage with a dex build


Advice


I am looking at building a dex based front line combat character of some sort. Initially looking at the two bladed Katar but that is not set in stone. I do want a x4 crit on my weapon though. Anyone have suggestions on how to get my damage up a lot. Damage that can be affected by crits that is. Just so you guys know, I do not care at all what the crit range of the weapon I get is, just the modifier. This character will be an android, but that is the only other thing set in stone. Class choice is still fairly open.


Warpriest.


I'd take 1 level in Titan Fighter, and wielding a Large-sized Scythe enchanted with Impact if I were you, and then go the rest of your levels in a class that can enlarge itself to Large or Huge, making that Scythe hit as if it's a Gargantuan or Colossal sized weapon.

A Medium Scythe is 2d4 dmg, Large is 2d6 dmg, Huge is 3d6 dmg, Gargantuan is 4d6 dmg, and Colossal is 6d6 damage.

So what if you went Titan Fighter1, and then the rest of your levels in Goliath Druid so you can be Huge-sized once you're Druid Level 8, so level 9 for you, and then with an Oversized Weapon from Titan Fighter + Impact enchant, you'll be doing Colossal damage (6d6). Enchant that thing with +1 Keen, get Power Attack, and now you're talking 6d6 +20-25ish damage with 19-20/x4 crit at level 9ish.

Your damage will still be quite respectable even before you get to level 9 though.

It won't be a Dex build, but you'll be putting out the hurty hurt you're looking for.

Your Avg Crit would look like 3.5x6 + 25 = 21 + 25 = 46, then x4 = 184 avg dmg. And with Keen, you'd crit on a 19 or 20 :D


Spyboy wrote:
Anyone have suggestions on how to get my damage up a lot. Damage that can be affected by crits that is.

Get dex-to-dmg through Slashing Grace/Agile enchant/UnRogue Finesse Training, or use options that reward dex-n-str builds such as the Vigilante's Lethal Grace.

Other class choices with a lot of critical damage would be the Paladin, Cavalier and Samurai who all add their level to damage. Kinda depends on what level you're starting out at.


You could design your own weapon too.

Exotic One-hand Weapons can have up to 10 Design Points.

Give it the Fragile and Lesser Damage qualities to gain an additional +2 DP.

With 12 DP, you could increase the Crit Multiplier to x4 for 9 DP, and increase the Threat Range to 19-20 for 3DP.

So the weapon would be 1d2 dmg (Slashing), 19-20/x4 crit. Let's call the weapon El Grillo Ruidoso. You could take two of these to dual wield, but should have 2 backup weapons in case you roll a 1 (due to fragile).

Now make a Warpriest and Take Weapon Focus in El Grillo Ruidoso, and with your lvl 1 feat take Weapon Finesse, now your Sacred Weapon increases El Grillo Ruidoso's dmg from 1d2 to 1d6.

Now start taking levels in anything you want, even continue with Warpriest for the scaling weapon damage increase if you want. Fighter or Warpriest would be nice for the feats, Slayer or Ranger would be good for the Ranger Combat Style: Two-Weapon Fighting for those juicy extra attacks. Grab a Wand of Haste or Boots of Speed for Haste for an additional attack. Pick up Slashing Grace, and Piranha Strike, and Critical Focus (+4 confirm crits) at level 9.

Put Keen on each, or get Imp Critical (El Grillo Ruidoso) once you're 8 BAB, and now you can Dual-wield a 1d6+dex+Piranha 17-20/x4.

If you had Greater TWF from Ranger Combat Styles at level 12 (11 BAB) and Boots of Speed, you could be pushing 7 attacks per round and your weapon would have a theoretical 20% chance to crit, meaning you have an approximate 1.4 crits per round.


You could also just forget about going Warpriest, and instead create the El Grillo Ruidoso as a Close weapon and be a Brawler. At Brawler level 5, they can use their Unarmed Strike damage when using Close weapons (but the unarmed dmg is calculated with a close weapon at -4 levels), but you wouldn't get Greater TWF until level 15.

You could make up for the lack of Attacks by going Combat Reflexes and Greater Trip, and place a Fortuitous Enchant on each of the Grillo Ruidosos.

Substitute your first attack as a Trip, then get Two AoO's when they fall prone, and Two AoO's when they get back up. Throw in Vicious Stomp for another free AoO.

Let's say you're level 16 with Haste. You'd have 4 attacks from BAB, 1 attack from TWF, 1 additional attack from Imp TWF, and 1 additional attack from Greater TWF, plus an attack from Haste. So 7 attacks + 1 Hasted attack. Let's also say you have Slashing Grace, Piranha Strike, and a Dex of 26 (8 Mod). Let's also say you have +4 enchants on your Grillo Ruidosos. Your bonus dmg should be 8dex + 10/5piranha + 4enchant = 22 dmg with Mainhand, 17 dmg with OH, not including any other buffs from allies.

Assuming all attacks/trips are successful:

Hasted Attack - Trip
AoO 2d6+22
Fortuitous AoO 2d6+22
Vicious Stomp (if you want, but it won't do Grillo Ruidoso dmg)
1st Attack: 2d6+22
2nd Attack: 2d6+17
3rd Attack: 2d6+22
4th Attack: 2d6+17
5th Attack: 2d6+22
6th Attack: 2d6+17
7th Attack: 2d6+22
Your Full Attack ends.

Enemy gets up on his turn

AoO 2d6+22
Fortuitous AoO 2d6+22

So that's 11 possible attacks in a given round with El Grillo Ruidosos, not including Vicious Stomp or other AoO's that might be provoked. With 11 attacks at 20% chance to crit, that's 2.2 crits per round.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Slashing Grace, Two-Weapon Grace, two falcatas and effortless lace. It's 19-20/x3 instead of x4, but 19-20/x3 does more average damage.

A fighter (or myrmidarch magus with Wand Wielder and the weaponwand spell) with Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon) can also increase the base weapon damage like a warpriest. The myrmidarch magus should probably also invest in a glove of storing (to store/retrieve one falcata as a free action) for actual spellcasting.


Spyboy wrote:
I am looking at building a dex based front line combat character of some sort. Initially looking at the two bladed Katar but that is not set in stone. I do want a x4 crit on my weapon though. Anyone have suggestions on how to get my damage up a lot. Damage that can be affected by crits that is. Just so you guys know, I do not care at all what the crit range of the weapon I get is, just the modifier. This character will be an android, but that is the only other thing set in stone. Class choice is still fairly open.

Android neatly fits a Magus build. Go with an Effortless Lace falcata and you're stacking a LOT more than just weapon damage with your blade. Or the exotic weapon Ryze Kuja recommended.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fighter advanced weapon training for fighter finesse and trained graced + gloves of dueling.

An ally with Butterfly sting (Or yourself if you two weapon fight with Kukri and pick)


I suppose I should add that I have an ally building a character with butterfly sting to feed me confirmed crits. So my part of the duo is to hit like a truck while her part is to generate crits. We will also be using outflank to bounce more attacks back and forth.

Warpriest has definitely come to mind for the scaling damage, just not a fan of 3/4BAB. But I suppose spells make for it. Would there be any feats you guys would suggest for this?

Paladin will not be that effective as we are playing iron gods and there are a lot of neutral enemies. Cavalier or samurai both sound decent though. We will be starting out at level 1.

Custom weapons do indeed sound cool, but not sure the GM will allow that. Although the fortuitous enchant sounds pretty good.

I will definelty look into magus. The android stats are perfect for them.

Butterfly sting is a key part of my allies build. Probably not in mine as I should be doing more damage per hit then her.

Silver Crusade

You could use Fencing Grace or Rogue level as it's a light weapon.

Light pick
Statistics
Cost 4 gp Weight 3 lbs.
Damage 1d3 (small), 1d4 (medium); Critical x4; Range —; Type P; Special —
Category Light; Proficiency Martial
Weapon Groups Axes
Description
This weapon, adapted from the pickaxe tool, has a head with a slightly curved, armorpiercing spike and a hammerlike counterweight.

If you have a built in flanking buddy. I recommend going Slayer for the extra sneak attack dice and full BAB.

Dark Archive

Level 6, using over sized butcher's axe, enlarged and lead blades
Attack: +18, 8d6+27 (average 55) crit 20x3

Vital strike: 16d6+27 (average 83)
Furious focus: 123 damage (max damage, fatigued)
Cyclops helm crit furious finish vital strike: 123+16d6+54. (Average 233)
Assume using cyclops helm to auto 20 the hit and furious finish to maximize vital strike

If i switch to scythe or naginata
4d6+27 (instead of 8d6)
8d6+27 (instead of 16d6)
Cyclopse helm stuff 253 average i think.


Spyboy wrote:


Warpriest has definitely come to mind for the scaling damage, just not a fan of 3/4BAB. But I suppose spells make for it. Would there be any feats you guys would suggest for this?

Warpriest spells ABOSLUTELY make up for it:

Let's say a Level 5 Fighter with 20 STR, Weapon Focus/Training and a +1 weapon: They've got a +12 to hit.

A Level 5 Warpriest might only have 18 STR, but the Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain gives Weapon Training so (with Weapon Focus) they're only at a -2 to the Fighter. BUT they've got Divine Favor and (since of COURSE you took Fate's Favored as a trait) you've got a +2 luck bonus to attack and damage, which puts you at 3 BAB + 4 STR + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Weapon Training + 2 Luck + 1 from weapon = +12 to hit. Exactly even. And you've got a much better Will save, nearly as many bonus feats, swift action self-healing and self-buffing, and some utility as well.

Not saying you SHOULD go Warpriest...but you should TOTALLY go Warpriest.


The concept of a Warpriest is that you cast Divine Favor (or later Divine Power) first round of every (slightly meaningful) combat. With that and BAB alone, Warpriest has an attack roll bonus equal ore greater than full BAB at all levels except 5th. That's without Fate's Favored which every Warpriest takes, without the free Weapon Focus, without Sacred Weapon granting a temporary enchantment, and also without the weapon training Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain has. Indeed, with Fate's Favored and the Weapon Focus, an MAC has an equal to or higher attack roll bonus than a raging Barbarian (including a Furious weapon as soon as it's afforable), unless the Barbarian also uses Reckless Abandon (or Accurate Stance).


Successful melee crit-fishing is a four-legged stool: Leg 1 is numeric damage applied to extended-threat weaponry. Leg 2 is number of attacks per round. Leg 3 is ability to secure full-attacks. Leg 4 is defense, i.e., can you survive while adjacent to cheesed-off monsters unloading their multi-attacks?

(The following is not an android, but the OP can still raid the exploratory build for ideas.)

STR- 8 (halfling, 15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt-array)
DEX+ 17 (bump 4th, 12th+Manual?)
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 15 (bump 8th)
CHA+ 14
racial traits: Low Blow, Outrider, Fey Thoughts(Fly,UMD), Shadow Hunter, Small Quarter Ally
character traits: Anatomist, Fate's Favored

01 Bloodrager1 [Urban/Id:Hatred:Weapon Finesse], Extra Rage
02 Cavalier1 [Emissary:Mounted Combat][mount][challenge]
03 Monk1 [Qinggong/Sohei:feat:Mounted Skirmisher], Boon Companion
04 Monk2 [evasion][feat:Ride-by Attack], DEX>18
05 Monk3, Indomitable Mount*
06 Monk4 [Ki strike][Monastic Mount]
07 Cavalier2 [Order of the Paw][Danger Ward], Chain Challenge
08 Cavalier3 WIS>16
09 Cavalier4 [Expert Trainer:retrain BoonC > Horse Master], Risky Striker
10 Monk5
11 Monk6 [Weapon Training:Monk group][bonus FEAT*], Piranha Strike
12 Monk7 DEX>20(?)
13 Monk8 [~ITWF Flurry iterative]
(*retrain Indomitable Mount into the monk 6th slot at 11th if nothing else on the monk/mount list is enticing; this frees up a general feat slot)

Level break-down:
1: ...Enjoy +4 dex and Weapon Finesse for Con+10 rounds per day. (Tip: don't rage save the moment you're deploying a full-attack versus a worthy target. And eat some barbarian chew.)
2: ...gain a mount, gain a relevant feat, gain Challenge (albeit tepid until mid-level). Wolf (choose this mount because it's the fastest medium-sized cavalier option whose upgrade attributes aren't nerfed, take a pony only if you're stuck in a campaign where it's impossible to buy or have crafted a Horseshoes of Speed variant for canids): give it the Narrow Frame feat. --While you'll have some fun tripping things at low-level before the rider side of things is fully gelled, the real job of this animal is to carry you safely into and out of melee via Ride-by Attack while eventually quadrupling your speed.
3: ...gain pseudo-Pounce that's better than actual Pounce because it's not a charge action, meaning you can fish-tail your way in to the opponent without worrying about open lanes or straight lines.
4: ...now pseudo-pounce while also avoiding AoOs. Also avoid AoE.
5: ...Indomitable Mount can be taken in a Sohei feat-slot a little earlier if mount saving-throws are a greater low-level problem for you than AoOs.
6: ...up to three attacks/round while Ki lasts; auto-share monk bennies w/mount
7: ...Order of the Paw's Danger Ward is one of the best defensive party-buffs in the game, and very few know about it due to the highly-specific race/class/mount package requirement. Free rerolls are godsends.
8: ...a dull level, but we pick up +1 Ki/day, +1 will, and +1 AC.
9: ...finally we can retrain Boon Companion into Horse Master, and it'll be all monk hereafter. Risky Striker delivers +6 numeric damage at cost to AC; take Piranha Striker here instead if you'd rather sack attack-bonus before AC. Soon enough you'll have both.

Gear bucket-list: +1/Agile/Furious/Keen cestus (a weapon that is not subject to either Disarm or the Steal maneuver), Belt of Incredible Dexterity, Headband of Inspired Wisdom, Gloves of Dueling, Vambraces of the Tactician, Champion's Banner, Boots of Speed, "Winged Dog Booties of Speed", War Saddle.

~ ~ ~

Let's revisit the four legs of the stool:

1st leg: Numeric contributions at 13th:

8 (maybe 9, maybe 10) dex+rage+belt
10 challenge (4 cavalier levels + vambraces + champion's banner)
3 gloves of dueling
3 Furious enhancement bonus
8 risky striker
8 piranha strike
= d3+40 (17-20 threat, +2 to confirm). This is all without spellcasting, consumable consumption, or external buff reception. Since all full-attack damage is via Flurry, only a single weapon is needed.

2nd leg: Number of attacks:

Level: 3rd:2, 6th:3(Ki), 7th:4, 8th:5(BoS, if not earlier), 11th:6, 13th:7

3rd leg: Ride-by Attack + Mounted Skirmisher lets us zigzag right up to the reach-monster and unload all of those attacks without eating any AoOs. Mount's move capacity: 50 (base), +30 (mount's footwear), +10 (Racer archetype), +10 spurred, if necessary (Ride-check)

4th leg: we're a decently-skilled monk with not necessarily redonkulous but still excellent AC (including Qinggong Barkskin), enjoy fast-track in all saves including a couple save rerolls per day for everyone in the party, we almost never take AoE damage, we negate most mount-bound damage and skull effery with mount feats and Sohei shared monk buffs, will always act in surprise rounds, and gain a scaling bonus to INIT. Lastly, if we're ever chewed to pieces and in a bad way, we can pop an Immediate action to gain cover from our mount.


One class that hasn't been mentioned is Medium. If you build the character around channeling the Champion you end up with a character that keeps up with full BAB classes (though they are a 3/4 BAB class, so slower itterative attack progression). Unlike a Warpriest, instead of advancing their damage dice, the Medium gets an extra attack at their full bonus from 6th level on. That bonus attack stacks with the extra attack from haste.

Also the Champion comes with a built in +3 to damage at 1st level, which increases by 1 every 4 levels. The medium can share +2 of that with party members if they take part in your seance, and that is an all day buff.

The Champion also lets you learn an exotic weapon proficiency each day. That means if you pick up an odd weapon you can start to use it the next time you channel the Champion.

While I can understand why you would want a high dex for the Iron Gods campaign, I'd recommend a strength build for a crit-based character. Mainly because...

Spoiler:
You won't be able to get dex to damage on a chainsaw unless you have one enchanted to become an agile weapon.

oh, also because it will save you a few feats, which will make a big difference.


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Slim Jim wrote:
Successful melee crit-fishing (...)

And talking about crits, what we see here is a critical fumble at reading what the thread is about.


Derklord wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Successful melee crit-fishing (...)
And talking about crits, what we see here is a critical fumble at reading what the thread is about.
What we see here is a critical fumble at reading both the OP, who stated in the first clause of the first sentence of the first post of the thread :
Spyboy wrote:
"I am looking at building a dex based front line combat character of some sort. Initially looking at the two bladed Katar but that is not set in stone."
Which quite naturally led you to completely overlook the incongruity of Ryze Kuja immediately suggesting an uber strength build in the thread's second post, as well as Name Violation, who recommended the same in their post immediately above mine whose second paragraph which you never got to read:
Quote:
"The following is not an android, but the OP can still raid the exploratory build for ideas."

Because making it an android would knock like a half-dozen off the total from not having Risky Striker. Horrible.

<eyeroll>

"ZOMG it don't have a x4 weapon either! Totally not what he wanted! Boo!"

Do you really suppose Spyboy doesn't know how to mentally convert "cestus" into "katar" all on his own without you being around to hold his hand? --My goodness; then he would have a DEX BUILD with a x4 weapon, that being exactly what he asked for in the OP.

Amazing. Astounding. Astonishing.

<Bronx cheer>


I only suggested a Str-based build because I couldn't think of how to do a Dex-based one that I liked. I had to think about it for a minute, then I submitted two Dex-based builds.


Thanks for all the help guys, there have been a few viable ideas. Even the ideas you guys provided that are not viable have given me some ideas. As derk-lord and slim Jim have pointed out, I do not care at all about crit fishing, yes I know damage per round is higher that way, but not damage per attack, and that is what I am aiming for. Calagnar actually pointed out that the light pick was... well... light. Not sure how that escaped me, but that could also be quite the viable weapon.

I think I have it pretty narrowed down with either magus or warpriest. I dont know much about the medium but that could also bear looking into. However I just found out that some 3rd party content will be allowed so I know have that to consider. Are there any suggestions on good third party content for a dex based front line fighter aiming to get high damage and a high crit modifier?


A Vigilante can use Slashing Grace and Lethal Grace to get both Dex and 1/2 level to damage, all of which multiplies. (Slashing Grace the feat adds Dex, Lethal Grace the Vigilante Talent.)

I'm not sure about the x4 weapon, I think most are piercing. Lethal Grace should still be workable.

Edit: Yeah, Fencing Grace with the pick.

Grand Lodge

EldonGuyre wrote:

A Vigilante can use Slashing Grace and Lethal Grace to get both Dex and 1/2 level to damage, all of which multiplies. (Slashing Grace the feat adds Dex, Lethal Grace the Vigilante Talent.)

I'm not sure about the x4 weapon, I think most are piercing. Lethal Grace should still be workable.

Edit: Yeah, Fencing Grace with the pick.

Wrong about the stacking part, because of this :

Quote:
Lethal Grace (Ex): ... When using Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack using his Dexterity bonus on attack rolls and his Strength bonus on damage rolls, he also adds half his vigilante level on damage rolls. ...

Slashing Grace substituting str for dex on the damage, Lethal Grace invalidates the former, or only the biggest/whatever the player chooses works.


Philippe Lam wrote:
EldonGuyre wrote:

A Vigilante can use Slashing Grace and Lethal Grace to get both Dex and 1/2 level to damage, all of which multiplies. (Slashing Grace the feat adds Dex, Lethal Grace the Vigilante Talent.)

I'm not sure about the x4 weapon, I think most are piercing. Lethal Grace should still be workable.

Edit: Yeah, Fencing Grace with the pick.

Wrong about the stacking part, because of this :

Quote:
Lethal Grace (Ex): ... When using Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack using his Dexterity bonus on attack rolls and his Strength bonus on damage rolls, he also adds half his vigilante level on damage rolls. ...
Slashing Grace substituting str for dex on the damage, Lethal Grace invalidates the former, or only the biggest/whatever the player chooses works.

Ah...well, then. Maybe not.

Thanks for the correction.

Dark Archive

For the record, i fully admit to my superhuman power to completely misread posts.


Name Violation wrote:
For the record, i fully admit to my superhuman power to completely misread posts.

It's not unique, trust me. As I get older, that power has matured in me.

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