A friend of mine is looking to make a blaster who can blast the living day lights out of enemies. He's torn between either a Storm Druid or a Sorcerer, his primary concern is to just be able to deal lots of damage, even if it's over soeccing for one particular spell (he loves flaming sphere), he likes the storm druids focus power better than the sorcerer's (elemental toss etc) but believes the Sorcerer is slightly better. He's wondering if he's going for max blast how should he build his character.
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Why not both? Primal or Arcane Sorcerer with Druid Dedication should work just fine.
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Sorcerer, definitely.
With a prepared caster, you'll have to memorize blast spells as many times as you need them, and if you make a mistake, you'll either lose the versatility of your class or end up with no more blast spell.
With a spontaneous caster, you don't lose the versatility of your class because of your blast spells, especially if you tend to like a small subset of them. And you can't end up with no more blasts left unless you have no more spells at all.
Spontaneous casters are the obvious choice when you want to cast many times the same spell.
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Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.
Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.
So he takes druid dedication at lvl 2 and 4 or? Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid? And what feats is he after? Human? Starting Attributes?
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Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid?
Tempest Surge is a focus power and as such is always heightened to half yor level rounded up.
Quick draft:
Gutsy Halfling.
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 18
1st level Ancestry feat: any (probably Halfing Luck)
Bloodline: Elemental (Fire)
At level 5 get Cultural Adaptability (Human) -> Natural Ambition -> Dangerous Sorcery.
Class Feats: 2- Druid Dedication, 4- Order Spell, 5- Dangerous Sorcery (via Ancestry feat), 6- Basic Druid Spellcasting, 8- Primal Breadth, 10- Greater Bloodline, 12- Expert Druid Spellcasting, 14- Bloodline Focus, 16- Effortless Concentration, 18- Master Druid Spellcasting, 20- Bloodline Perfection
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Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.So he takes druid dedication at lvl 2 and 4 or? Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid? And what feats is he after? Human? Starting Attributes?
Halfling if going full optimised, it lets you get 18Cha/16Wis/14dex/12Con at lvl1. Lvl 5 used the Halfling ancestry to steal human natural ambition for Dangerous Sorcery.
Get Druid Dedication with Storm and at lvl 4 Order Spell.
After that get the Elemental Blast at lvl 10, Refocus 2 at lvl 12, Effortless at 16 and done, all the other feats are basically free to pick.
You two guys are on the same page! Brilliant stuff. For his signature spells any suggestions? He was thinking Heal actually got level 1 incase there are no healers in the group he could cover that, or would you guys recommend a blasting spell there also?
Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.
Isn't Tempest Surge a 2 action spell?
Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.Isn't Tempest Surge a 2 action spell?
It is.
Would the DC of Tempest Surge be based off Cha? For his focus spells, is the idea to use Tempest Surge almost exclusively and the odd time (at level 12) use Sorcerer's Elemental Motion?
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Would the DC of Tempest Surge be based off Cha? For his focus spells, is the idea to use Tempest Surge almost exclusively and the odd time (at level 12) use Sorcerer's Elemental Motion?
Nope. "Your key spellcasting ability for druid archetype spells is Wisdom".
So it will be 0-1 point behind, depending on your level.
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I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc
? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?
Elemental toss is one action, you can use it with other spells. Tempest surge is two actions. That's a huge difference.
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?
Yes. But note the different number of actions.
1 action for 1d8
2 actions for 1d12 + 1 ongoing + clumsy 2 (-2 reflexes, -2 AC)
Also, you get +1 focus point getting it. So you could throw both in a single turn. (Tempest first, to improve your chance of hitting with Toss).
Elemental toss is one action, you can use it with other spells. Tempest surge is two actions. That's a huge difference.
More damage, debuff, reflex save instead of attack roll, still some damage on a successful save, while Elemental Toss will do nothing on a failed attack.
I think it's good enough. You also might not always be able/willing to use a spell slot and Tempest Surge is a much better fall back option.
And the elemental sorcerer gets Elemental Toss anyway so you don't exactly lose anything by picking up Tempest Surge (well, other than a feat).
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?Yes. But note the different number of actions.
1 action for 1d8
2 actions for 1d12 + 1 ongoing + clumsy 2 (-2 reflexes, -2 AC)Also, you get +1 focus point getting it. So you could throw both in a single turn. (Tempest first, to improve your chance of hitting with Toss).
Elemental toss is 1d8+1
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Elemental toss + cantrip is way better at low levels than tempest surge, and feats are pretty meaningful
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Elemental toss + cantrip is way better at low levels than tempest surge, and feats are pretty meaningful
Well, he can't get Tempest Surge before level 4 anyway. Doing cantrip + Toss also mostly limites you to Electric Arc if you want to avoid MAP. I mean, Electric arc is probably the best damage cantrip anyway, so it's not much of a loss. Just somethin to keep in mind.
Also, I honestly find the feats of many caster classes rather disappointing so spending one more on an Archetype doesn't look that bad to me. YMMV, of course.
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Why did everyone know to use Halfling? I'm terrible at these but trying to learn to build better.
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Why did everyone know to use Halfling? I'm terrible at these but trying to learn to build better.
The premise was building a mix of sorcerer and druid. That means the character needs Wisdom and Charisma. He also probably doesn't wear any armor so every bit of Dex can help.
Halfling is the only ancestry that can get a boost to all three stats, while it's flaw in strength is largely inconsequential for a pure caster.
Halfling also has some pretty powerful ancestry feats like Halfling Luck and Cultural Adaptability. The latter is an easy way to pick up Adopted Ancestry (human) and Natural Ambition for that extra 1st level class feat.
What weapon does this MC Sorcerer/Druid wield? Were you guys envisioning a ranged weapon or some other type?
Could I use a whip? Even though not proficient it wouldn't matter since I would be trying to just trip enemies with it. Or is it best to stay as far away as possible?
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People tend to dramatically underestimate debuffs like clumsy, probably because people generally aren't used to the +10/-10 crit paradigm yet - as a sorcerer, they will have plenty of spells to do damage with, so the focus spell choice isn't really about damage and action economy (as they will usually have a cantrip for that) its about having an easy way to inflict a penalty to AC and reflex saves so that you (and your allies) will hit & crit more often, so the clumsy 2 from tempest surge is the real thing of note here.
What weapon does this MC Sorcerer/Druid wield? Were you guys envisioning a ranged weapon or some other type?
It's a caster. Why does he need a weapon?
Could I use a whip? Even though not proficient it wouldn't matter since I would be trying to just trip enemies with it. Or is it best to stay as far away as possible?
I don't think there's technically any rule stating you have to be proficient with a weapon to use its traits. I personally would totally make this a requirement, though.
When in doubt, ask your GM.
That being said, I'd probably not risk going withoin 10 ft of my enemies very often as an armorless Sorcerer. That might get you killed.
Mostly martials, no other spell casters.
I cast Raise Dead on this thread. Blave and Kyrone, you two were on the exact same page here on this thread, with the new APG has anything changed to this build (ie. Feats, type of elemental) ? Or is this still the way to do it? Looks like a fun build if you enjoy blasting, I always wonder though what a character does once he runs outta spells, non stop electric arc? Do you fire a ranged weapon? If so which one?
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My opinion did indeed change from a year ago and with the APG.
Mainly because I would not MC Druid anymore but go pure Sorcerer instead or dedicate to something else.
Fusion metamagic is a new tool for Blasting, but more to change the element to try to inflict weakness in a spell shape that you like. Instead of using fireball per example in a group of enemies weak to fire, just fusion fire into Chain Lightning for a more party friendly approach, or against a boss put another element on acid rain or Flaming Sphere.
Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.Isn't Tempest Surge a 2 action spell?
I will note that there is a somewhat obtainable feat (lvl 6 druid, lvl 12+ dedication?) that can let you use tempest surge as a reaction when you are hit. It also pushes the enemy away from you.
It is a rather nice defensive option, since it wastes the enemy's time during their turn. if they have to move+attack you already, they probably don't have enough actions to do it again after you push them. And the damage and debuff is sweet, of course.
Even if grabbing tempest surge on its own might be questionable, i feel that this combo might be worth your time.
I think that the Elemental Sorceror is the better pure blaster caster. Elemental Toss is very nice. You can pick up the storm druid focus spell via feats if you want. It will have a few more spell slots. The second string to this character is probably in Charisma Skills
But I like the utility value of the Storm Druid. It is cheap to pick up Dangerous Sorcery. You get a Bloodline. You can even pick up Elemental Toss via BloodLine Spell. There is still plently of space for you to have a reasonable animal companion or to wild shape well. Plus you have a larger hit dice.
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I will note that there is a somewhat obtainable feat (lvl 6 druid, lvl 12+ dedication?) that can let you use tempest surge as a reaction when you are hit. It also pushes the enemy away from you.
The problem with that feat is that it triggers when you are critically hit by an adjacent creature. By level 12, you'll often find yourself fighting creatures with reach, which either will not trigger the reaction at all or still have you in their melee reach after you push them 5 ft.
It can be decent on a druid but you probably don't want to be critically hit in melee as a sorcerer and getting it only via multiclassing reduces the DC quite a bit, making it more likely to not push back the attack at all.
with the new APG has anything changed to this build (ie. Feats, type of elemental) ?
Haven't really thought much about a pure caster lately. Sorcerer is definitey still the way to go.
One thing you could consider is switching ancestry to Kobold. The breath attack becomes a half-decent area attack once you get the upgrade, Cringe provides some protection against crits and the Dracomancer feats can give you a few decent spells that might otherwise be unavailable to you. A Red Dragon Exemplar could give you True Strike, See Invisibility, Mind Reading and 4th level Invisibility as Innate spells once per day, as an example. Those are all useful to have and none of them are on the Primal spell list.
Clearly evocation wizard
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I would avoid the druid multiclass. You don't need it. The sorcerer has a lot of good feats to take.
Main reason to go druid over sorcerer is the damage versatility, not pure blasting power. The best druids will blast in an opportunistic fashion while mixing up tempest surge, picking up a pet, and using a weapon.
If all the player wants to do is cast magical blasts, either a wizard sorcerer MC or a pure sorcerer would be best. You can develop a blasting strategy and roll with it.
Personally, I like air as fire has too many resistant or immune creatures. Whereas air spells do bludgeoning damage, which will run up against physical resistance but not much immunity.
I for one have had a whole lot of fun with the Destruction domain focus power.
Blast with your 2-action spell of choice, then follow up with cry of destruction for oodles and oodles of damage.
A great 1-2 combo.
I for one have had a whole lot of fun with the Destruction domain focus power.
Blast with your 2-action spell of choice, then follow up with cry of destruction for oodles and oodles of damage.
A great 1-2 combo.
How does that work? Cry of Destruction is also a 2-action spell.
How does that work? Cry of Destruction is also a 2-action spell.I for one have had a whole lot of fun with the Destruction domain focus power.
Blast with your 2-action spell of choice, then follow up with cry of destruction for oodles and oodles of damage.
A great 1-2 combo.
Sorry, I was misremembering.
I was playing a cleric at the time which would do things like cast a single action harm to deal 7d10 negative damage to a single target followed by cry of destruction for an additional 7d12 sonic damage to the target and anyone standing next to him.
That was a ways back though, so I guess I got it in my head during the interim that it was cry of destruction that was the single action spell in the 1-2 combo.