Druid blaster vs Sorcerer blaster


Advice


A friend of mine is looking to make a blaster who can blast the living day lights out of enemies. He's torn between either a Storm Druid or a Sorcerer, his primary concern is to just be able to deal lots of damage, even if it's over soeccing for one particular spell (he loves flaming sphere), he likes the storm druids focus power better than the sorcerer's (elemental toss etc) but believes the Sorcerer is slightly better. He's wondering if he's going for max blast how should he build his character.


Why not both? Primal or Arcane Sorcerer with Druid Dedication should work just fine.


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Sorcerer, definitely.
With a prepared caster, you'll have to memorize blast spells as many times as you need them, and if you make a mistake, you'll either lose the versatility of your class or end up with no more blast spell.
With a spontaneous caster, you don't lose the versatility of your class because of your blast spells, especially if you tend to like a small subset of them. And you can't end up with no more blasts left unless you have no more spells at all.

Spontaneous casters are the obvious choice when you want to cast many times the same spell.


Obviously sorcerer.

Leave alone dedications, because you will proceed too slow to get useful stuff for the current lvl.

To make an example, when you will be next to lvl 7 spells, lvl 12 to be clear, with dedication you will have 1 lvl 4 spell with expert rank.

Maybe could be useful in terms of buff, if you consider a bard dedication, which shares your Charisma modifier.

But there's definitely better stuff there.


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Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.


Kyrone wrote:
Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.

So he takes druid dedication at lvl 2 and 4 or? Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid? And what feats is he after? Human? Starting Attributes?


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Atalius wrote:
Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid?

Tempest Surge is a focus power and as such is always heightened to half yor level rounded up.

Quick draft:

Gutsy Halfling.
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 18
1st level Ancestry feat: any (probably Halfing Luck)
Bloodline: Elemental (Fire)

At level 5 get Cultural Adaptability (Human) -> Natural Ambition -> Dangerous Sorcery.

Class Feats: 2- Druid Dedication, 4- Order Spell, 5- Dangerous Sorcery (via Ancestry feat), 6- Basic Druid Spellcasting, 8- Primal Breadth, 10- Greater Bloodline, 12- Expert Druid Spellcasting, 14- Bloodline Focus, 16- Effortless Concentration, 18- Master Druid Spellcasting, 20- Bloodline Perfection


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Atalius wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Sorcerer because Dangerous Sorcery and Blood Magic increases well the damage and indeed take Druid Dedication, because both use primal DC and spell attack roll the proficiency will be the same, take Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.
So he takes druid dedication at lvl 2 and 4 or? Will Tempest Surge continue to scale even if he takes no more levels in Druid? And what feats is he after? Human? Starting Attributes?

Halfling if going full optimised, it lets you get 18Cha/16Wis/14dex/12Con at lvl1. Lvl 5 used the Halfling ancestry to steal human natural ambition for Dangerous Sorcery.

Get Druid Dedication with Storm and at lvl 4 Order Spell.

After that get the Elemental Blast at lvl 10, Refocus 2 at lvl 12, Effortless at 16 and done, all the other feats are basically free to pick.


You two guys are on the same page! Brilliant stuff. For his signature spells any suggestions? He was thinking Heal actually got level 1 incase there are no healers in the group he could cover that, or would you guys recommend a blasting spell there also?


Atalius wrote:
You two guys are on the same page! Brilliant stuff. For his signature spells any suggestions? He was thinking Heal actually got level 1 incase there are no healers in the group he could cover that, or would you guys recommend a blasting spell there also?

As a side note Heal also is fairly good at aoe blasting undead.


Kyrone wrote:
Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.

Isn't Tempest Surge a 2 action spell?


Pirate Rob wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Tempest Surge of Druid because 1 action for clumsy 2 is great and makes you more likely to crit your spells.
Isn't Tempest Surge a 2 action spell?

It is.

The Exchange

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Remember that Dangerous Sorcery does NOT work for Focus spells or cantrips (neither of them are in "spell slots") and Blood Magic will not work for Tempest Surge


Would the DC of Tempest Surge be based off Cha? For his focus spells, is the idea to use Tempest Surge almost exclusively and the odd time (at level 12) use Sorcerer's Elemental Motion?


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Atalius wrote:
Would the DC of Tempest Surge be based off Cha? For his focus spells, is the idea to use Tempest Surge almost exclusively and the odd time (at level 12) use Sorcerer's Elemental Motion?

Nope. "Your key spellcasting ability for druid archetype spells is Wisdom".

So it will be 0-1 point behind, depending on your level.


I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc


citricking wrote:
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc

? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?


Elemental toss is one action, you can use it with other spells. Tempest surge is two actions. That's a huge difference.


Atalius wrote:
citricking wrote:
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc
? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?

Yes. But note the different number of actions.

1 action for 1d8
2 actions for 1d12 + 1 ongoing + clumsy 2 (-2 reflexes, -2 AC)

Also, you get +1 focus point getting it. So you could throw both in a single turn. (Tempest first, to improve your chance of hitting with Toss).


citricking wrote:
Elemental toss is one action, you can use it with other spells. Tempest surge is two actions. That's a huge difference.

More damage, debuff, reflex save instead of attack roll, still some damage on a successful save, while Elemental Toss will do nothing on a failed attack.

I think it's good enough. You also might not always be able/willing to use a spell slot and Tempest Surge is a much better fall back option.

And the elemental sorcerer gets Elemental Toss anyway so you don't exactly lose anything by picking up Tempest Surge (well, other than a feat).


Mellored wrote:
Atalius wrote:
citricking wrote:
I really don't think you should try to get tempest surge, it's not any better than elemental toss and you'll be behind on dc
? Seems to be much better than Elemental Toss, Clumsy 2 is quite good, no?

Yes. But note the different number of actions.

1 action for 1d8
2 actions for 1d12 + 1 ongoing + clumsy 2 (-2 reflexes, -2 AC)

Also, you get +1 focus point getting it. So you could throw both in a single turn. (Tempest first, to improve your chance of hitting with Toss).

Elemental toss is 1d8+1


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Elemental toss + cantrip is way better at low levels than tempest surge, and feats are pretty meaningful


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citricking wrote:
Elemental toss + cantrip is way better at low levels than tempest surge, and feats are pretty meaningful

Well, he can't get Tempest Surge before level 4 anyway. Doing cantrip + Toss also mostly limites you to Electric Arc if you want to avoid MAP. I mean, Electric arc is probably the best damage cantrip anyway, so it's not much of a loss. Just somethin to keep in mind.

Also, I honestly find the feats of many caster classes rather disappointing so spending one more on an Archetype doesn't look that bad to me. YMMV, of course.


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Why did everyone know to use Halfling? I'm terrible at these but trying to learn to build better.


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Apotheosis wrote:
Why did everyone know to use Halfling? I'm terrible at these but trying to learn to build better.

The premise was building a mix of sorcerer and druid. That means the character needs Wisdom and Charisma. He also probably doesn't wear any armor so every bit of Dex can help.

Halfling is the only ancestry that can get a boost to all three stats, while it's flaw in strength is largely inconsequential for a pure caster.

Halfling also has some pretty powerful ancestry feats like Halfling Luck and Cultural Adaptability. The latter is an easy way to pick up Adopted Ancestry (human) and Natural Ambition for that extra 1st level class feat.


What weapon does this MC Sorcerer/Druid wield? Were you guys envisioning a ranged weapon or some other type?


Could I use a whip? Even though not proficient it wouldn't matter since I would be trying to just trip enemies with it. Or is it best to stay as far away as possible?


If you go an ancient elf you could get your druid dedication at first level as a heritage.


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People tend to dramatically underestimate debuffs like clumsy, probably because people generally aren't used to the +10/-10 crit paradigm yet - as a sorcerer, they will have plenty of spells to do damage with, so the focus spell choice isn't really about damage and action economy (as they will usually have a cantrip for that) its about having an easy way to inflict a penalty to AC and reflex saves so that you (and your allies) will hit & crit more often, so the clumsy 2 from tempest surge is the real thing of note here.


Atalius wrote:
What weapon does this MC Sorcerer/Druid wield? Were you guys envisioning a ranged weapon or some other type?

It's a caster. Why does he need a weapon?

Quote:
Could I use a whip? Even though not proficient it wouldn't matter since I would be trying to just trip enemies with it. Or is it best to stay as far away as possible?

I don't think there's technically any rule stating you have to be proficient with a weapon to use its traits. I personally would totally make this a requirement, though.

When in doubt, ask your GM.

That being said, I'd probably not risk going withoin 10 ft of my enemies very often as an armorless Sorcerer. That might get you killed.


What did they have in mind for this character? Are they intending to be a face of the party as well? Are they wanting to also assist in healing? What classes and whatnot are other party members planning on being?


Mostly martials, no other spell casters.

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