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Ok so here is a lvl 1 rendition of a character I was playing around with.
Please let me know if there are ways I can improve this character or how I can go about making her a support powerhouse.
KLAUDIA CR 1/2
Female Human Bard 1
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +5
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DEFENSE
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AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+1 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 11 (1d8+2)
Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Rapier +2 (1d6+2/18-20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +2 (1d3+2/20/x2)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (standard action) (13 rounds/da, Bardic Performance: Countersong, Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (DC 13), Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 1, +2 melee touch, +2 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Cure Light Wounds (DC 14), Sotto Voce (DC 14)
0 (at will) Daze (DC 13), Read Magic, Detect Magic, Lullaby (DC 13)
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STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 17
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats: Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Extra Performance, Secret Signs
Traits: Anatomist, Inspired by Greatness: Cure Light Wounds
Skills:
Acrobatics +6, Appraise +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +7, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +7, Knowledge: Religion +9, Perception +5, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +6
Languages: Abyssal, Common, Kelish, Shadowtongue, Skald
SQ Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex)
Combat Gear Quilted Cloth, Rapier; Other Gear Backpack (16 @ 28.5 lbs), Chalk, 1 piece (5), Cup, False-Bottomed, Grappling hook (5), Surgeon's Tools, Torch (3), Twine (50')
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Anatomist +1 to confirm critical hits.
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add + 1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (13 rounds/day)
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su)
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su)
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (DC 13)
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su)
Inspired by Greatness - Cure Light Wounds Whether you knew Professor Lorrimor well or only in passing, as a colleague or competitor, his career and lifetime of discovery inspired you to be better at what you do. As you honed your craft, you and the professor corresponded, and he was delighte
Secret Signs - You can hide somatic components of spellcasting
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*She is a native of Nidal
*Follower of Zon Kuthon
*Her skin below the neck is hideously mutilated;
she keeps it covered at all times so as to not raise suspicion.
*She fled from Nidal because she was chosen for the Culling.
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1:If you can move stats around you don't need a 18Int.
Trading that with Str or Dex will do you alot of good.
2:Traits: Trade Anatomist for Vagabond Child (urban): +1 disable device and disable device is a class skill. Now your the trap monkey.
3:Skills realy need fixed and prepared for later levels and abilitys. Make sure you don't take skill that can be done with Verstal Preformance. And make sure you plan out your verstal preformance befor you start so you should have 2 preform skills.
Example:6+2(Int14)+1(Human)+1(Favord Class)=10 skill points per level.
Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Perception, Spellcraft, Stealth, Preform:Oratary, Preform:Act, (Knowlage skills spread out as you level. Don't focuse in any one knowlage skill let your bardc lore work for you.)
Verstal Preformance:2nd level: Oratary(Diplomacy,Sense Motive), 6th level Act(Bluff,Disquise)
4: Feats: Secert Signs is a nice fluff feat. It dose not give you any real advantage. In that the amount of times it will realy help out is limited. Suggest you trade it for Improved Initiave. Extra Preformance is not of any use past level 6. I played a bard up to level 13 and hade exta rounds all the time after the mid levels. Now if its required for master preformer and grand master preformer. Keap it. Other wise Lingering prefromance is much better. Even then not one I start with.
Example: Starting with Dex 18 (Improved Initiave, Weapon Finesses)
Level 1 Init +8 Raiper To hit +4 (+5 with inspire courage)
5: Even support characters need to function in combat if they can't. They hurt the party not help. Even in RP heavy groups if you don't live it dose not matter how cool you think the character is.
Somthing like this.
Human Bard Level 1
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 15
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 17
Feats: Weapon Finesses, Improved Initiave
Traits: Vagabond Child, Reactionary
Skills:(6+2(Int)+1(Human)+1(Favord Class)=10) Acrobatics(8), Disable Device(9), Perception(5), Spellcraft(6), Stealth(8), Preform:Oratary(7), Preform:Act(7), Knowlage:Religion(7), Knowlage:Arcane(7), Knowlage:History(7)
AC 15 (+4Dex+1Armor)
HP 10 (1D8+2)
Fort 2 Ref 6 Will 3
Init 10 (+4Dex+4feet+2trate)
melee rapier +4 (1D6+2/18-20X2)
range short bow +4 (1D6/X3)
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Hah, I definitely need to work up on my skills on creating fully effective characters.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that later in the game, ALL skills become class skills for the bard?
I do prefer to keep the Anatomist trait. I need all the help I can get whenever I have the chance to confirm a crit since I have bad luck when rolling dice.
Is it possible for me to start out with the scorpion whip, or does that require extra training for it?
I like your suggestion for skills, calagnar, I'll probably be going with that.
My reasoning behind the high intelligence was the idea of having her multiclass into cleric later on; that would set me up for a few good things.
Picking different feats is another one i'll implement. You made some good point on that. I think the Improved Initiative and Weapon focus are good ones for me because like i said, i tend to roll badly.
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I do prefer to keep the Anatomist trait. I need all the help I can get whenever I have the chance to confirm a crit since I have bad luck when rolling dice.
If you're intending to play a support heavy role, you're only effective by fighting vicariously through your allies. Leave your allies to make the attack and damage roles. You should be focusing on maximizing your bardic performances per day, as well as your ability to make your allies better combatants.
This means using intimidate to demoralize your foes at all levels, cause fear to expedite the process at lower levels, and your social skills and other spells to be your most effective: helping your party by avoiding combat entirely. (Demoralize applies the Shaken condition: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.)
Settle for a +2 Int modifier at best, but beef up your DEX so you not only gain additional AC... but also add to your CMB. Plan for Agile Maneuvers, Improved Trip and Fury's Fall. If you have room to add more Int, go for it - but with your available skill points and versatile performance: it's not necessary.
Using this tactic to trip your ally's targets from ranged with a whip will not only keep you out of harms way, but it will ensure that your big hitting melee types are constantly swinging at prone targets. This is an easy way to ensure an equivalent to +4 attack bonus for your friends (per the rules, it's actually a -4 to their AC).
Let your allies worry about scoring the criticals, if you're truly to be the supporting cast at the show.
And remember: Bardic abilities are no longer based on Perform skill other than Countersong and Distraction.
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My reasoning behind the high intelligence was the idea of having her multiclass into cleric later on; that would set me up for a few good things.
Picking different feats is another one i'll implement. You made some good point on that. I think the Improved Initiative and Weapon focus are good ones for me because like i said, i tend to roll badly.
Cleric's spellcasting atribute is wisdow , not intelligence. Clerics dont use INT for nothing whatsoever. It is in fact their dump stat. 14 is more than good as int for a bard.
I would not recommend multiclassing as a fullcaster, you end up gimping yourself. Go bard all the way, it will be that much better.
Yes, scorpion whip uses the same proficiency as normal whip.
As a bard you will never be the best melee dmg dealer. You can be a very good ranged dmg dealer, a good melee bruiser or nice battle field controler with whip trip build. But not the three at the same time. You need to choose one and specialise in that role because you will not have enoth feats to effectively do it all.
In the bow ranged build pick up point blank shot and prescise shoot in 1st lvl, rapid shot at 3rd and them deadly aim (or arcane strike, cant remember which one is best for bard) manyshot and improved prescise shot later on. For this build i would go with str14, dex18, con15, int 14, wis 13, cha17. If you can i would dump that wis to 10 and invest in more cha.
With the scorpion whip trip build i would focus on str. Going str 18, dex 14 insted. That way you save a feat slot because you dont have to pick up weapon finesse. Start with combat expertise and improved trip at first lvl so yoy can already start the game doing your thing... Later on you pick up greater trip. Power atack is also a good choice for this build, if you meet a foe that cant be triped pull your longsword out and two hand dps with it. With this build ALWAYS enlarge person yourself before combat. Its what makes a trip build viable, aside from other benefits you can start picking up your targets from 30ft away.
Since you are human after lvl 4 start picking up the human's alternative favored class option from APG and start add new spells-know to your list.
Improved iniciative is a great feat, its good for both builds, but i prefer to pick it up after my character has already "come together".
Calagnar and Steelcleave advice are very solid. Pick up Urban child for trait insted of anatomist, specially if there is no rogue in the party. Those traps and locked doors are not gonna disarm themselfs. You want to be the support character, right?
As a last pointer there is a great guide to optimaze your bard here on the boards, just type bard's guide and treantmonk on the search tool and you should find it.
Good luck.
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Never ever multiclass a bard! That is the number one way to make a bard a gimp. All Bard abilitys are based on there level. The only exception to this rule is 2 level dip. And even then it's a wast of time. The most you will ever get is rogue:evasion/trapfinding. And it's still not worth delaying inspire courage.
Anatomist is a wast of a trat. It only works some times and is only a +1. +2 Init helps you every combat.
I did mess up thow I did not give my bard Use Magic Device. Slaps forhead. Ya make sure you work that one in. It's the single most important skill for a bard to take.
The only problem with taking more bard spells after level 4. There bard spells. You can get most of the good bard spells with out geting more of them.
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Cleric's spellcasting atribute is wisdom , not intelligence.
Yea, I felt like a retard when I realized I posted that about an hour afterwards.
Ok so here is my reworked bard:
Bard Human lvl 1
STR 16(+2 race)
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 14
WIS 13
CHA 17
Weapon - Scorpion Whip
Secondary Weapon - Net
Traits:
Inspired by greatness: Sotto Voice
Urban Child: Disable Device
Feats:
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Know relig, know history, perception, stealth, and use magic device.
How does this sound?
You want perform skills so you can get versatile performance later on and get 2 skills for 1 skill point.
Doing things like Acrobatics, Fly or Sense Motive with your Charisma is phenomenal.
Maybe you want to take a look at this bard guide?
It's core only but i think it can help you with understanding the basics of PF bards.
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Maybe you want to take a look at this bard guide?
It's core only but i think it can help you with understanding the basics of PF bards.
Yea, Ive been reading that, It really is a great guide. I do hope it gets updated sooner or later though.
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For no good reason, Sotto Voice is a level 1 spell for Bards, but a level 0 cantrip / orison for everyone else... making it a particularly bad choice for a Bard to take (and, most likely, a typo too...). Compare it with the standard level 1 spell Cause Fear and you'll see what I mean (Sotto Voice is essentially Cause Fear-lite as a cantrip).
Take Cause Fear instead, but don't sink your Trait into it, as it's a classic spell to swap-out at later levels (when the spell becomes ineffective due to its built-in Hit Dice target limitations).
If you're taking the Lullaby cantrip, you're better off taking the Sleep spell at level one, to capitalise on the cantrip's effects - if one of the other spellcasters in your group doesn't have Sleep, then take that instead of Cause Fear. Otherwise Lullaby is really a waste of a cantrip known.
Note also that the Daze cantrip targets a Will save, same as Cause Fear, Lullaby, and Sleep - it's usually better to mix-n-match the saves you're targeting a bit, so you can better effect whichever bad guy you happen to face. The Flare cantrip, for example, targets a Fort save.
Personally I like Dancing Lights and Ghost Sound as cantrips - great utility and loads of potential uses. Ghost Sound is also the only cantrip which actually scales in power with level.
For a support-focused character the 1st level Bard spell Timely Inspiration from the APG (page 249) can be great - it's an immediate action casting time, which means when one of your friends rolls and curses 'cos he missed the roll by one, you can throw this out and save the day. It's circumstantial, but can be a lifesaver (literally in some cases!).
If you're using Ultimate Magic, you may want to take a look at the section on Masterpieces as well - some have very nice effects, and the ones you like will help guide you towards which Performance Skills to start specializing in from level 1.
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My new spell set is as such:
0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Spark(spark uses EITHER verbal or somatic, so i see a lot of uses for this one)
1 - Grease and Tripvine
I also replaced that trait with Chance Savior from Carrion Crown as it adds another +2 to my initiative checks.
Another question. Is Quilted Cloth a good choice for starting armor?
I figured it was a good idea sincethere is No ACP penalty and I get a DR of 3/- against any projectile, magic notwithstanding.
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That's a better selection, certainly, but Grease and Tripvine cover a lot of the same ground (i.e. tripping the bad guys in an area). I'd stick with Grease (as it has more applications) out of the two, and make a different second choice. With limited spells known you'll be tending to look for spells with wide applications, but which don't overlap in application with other spells you can already cast. For a Bard especially, the illusion and enchantment spells often fall into those categories, IMHO.
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I know I'm going to be booted from the honored halls of bard building forever by suggesting it, but I build a solid support bard, and I multiclassed to do it.
Yes...multiclassed.
Bard/Rogue, between spells like Expeditious Retreat, fairly inexpensive boots of springing and striding, a few combat rogue tricks, and some preplanning, I had a very nice bard that could hit for solid damage and "support" his friends in a variety of manners.
The key was fast movement, reach weapons (lets NOT get hit, although with high DEX I had one of the better ACs) and the feats: Gang Up and Lunge (available at +6 BAB) I could use a reach weapon with 10' reach, lunge for the other 5, if I had 2 party members threatening I got my SA bonus dice, plus some other things. Inspire, charging, flanking, and suddenly my fairly "wimpy" less-than-full-BAB to hit just jumped dramatically, plus when I was done I was a solid 15' behind someone. Fleshed out with the Improved Trip and Greater Trip feats when available, I could do moderate damage to finish off an opponent, trip them causing AoO, leave the baddie on the ground providing a better +to hit for my team, and still sing and cast magic.
So, I usually wielded a metamagic rod in my offhand, and first round would cast something...grease, expeditious retreat, haste, good hope, SOMETHING all as a swift action, Inspire Courage as a move action (once I was high enough, or as my standard at low levels) then take either a standard action or a move action depending.
D8 (long spear), 2d6 (sneak attack/flank attack), +2 Inspire, +1 (magic weapon, cheap), +2 natural strength bonus, made for a suddenly solid little hit, all at the +2 to hit, +2 from Inspire, +2 flank, +2 charge, +BAB....
it got surprisingly ugly, surprisingly fast.
Oh, and I had mad skills, I had other actions, I had other spells, I had decent initiative bonus, I was usually TOO overwhelmed with options as opposed to sitting there going "gee, I guess I'll just attack".
Bards rule. Support your friends, but allow yourself to also shine on stage...whether that stage is a stage or battlefield.
This whole concept that a Bard cannot be the star of anything is bogus.
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The bard shines every time my group gets to gether. We have 5 players and every time we make a group now. It who is playing the bard this time. Not who is playing the healer. It's goten to the point that when we find out who is playing the bard and what type of bard there playing. We then make characters based on what type of bard is going to be in the group.
0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Spark(spark uses EITHER verbal or somatic, so i see a lot of uses for this one)
Actually, that's not true. Not for a bard, anyway.
Spells: A bard casts arcane spells drawn from the bard spell list presented in Spell Lists. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every bard spell has a verbal component (song, recitation, or music).
So you can cast it verbal only, but not somatic only.
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Ok, so Im guessing I should swap out the Knowledge skills for two performs?
I would recommend Oratory & Comedy, as neither ties up your hands with instruments PLUS you gain access to all of your social skills by way of Versatile Performance: Sense Motive, Bluff, Diplomacy & Intimidate.
Level 2: Demoralize your opponents with a snide remark or really bad knock knock joke by way of Perform (Comedy). Instant penalties to their attack rolls and ensuring better chances of survival for your allies! Comedy, via Versatile Performance, also lets you use the same skill to Feint as a combat maneuver using your perform check. Good way to lower the AC of someone, should you have the need.
Good work on the feats w/Trip. -4 AC for being Prone = potent way to expedite combat and lessen the hits on your allies.
Personally, I would still switch your STR and DEX scores. Add Agile Maneuvers as a feat next level. You'll be sucking up the lower CMB for a level sure, but next level you'll have the benefits of both AC and CMB thanks to your increased DEX modifier.
If you weren't in need of Combat Expertise, I'd also almost recommend Halfling - but that's more of an RP choice.
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Personally, I would still switch your STR and DEX scores. Add Agile Maneuvers as a feat next level. You'll be sucking up the lower CMB for a level sure, but next level you'll have the benefits of both AC and CMB thanks to your increased DEX modifier.
Yeah, Im sticking with that method. Not only do I get better AC and CMB once I pick up Agile Maneuvers, I now have a +6 Initiative.
Blammo!
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I noticed that my armor choice question was left unanswered.
It seems right, but I would like someone's input on my starting armor choice
Is Quilted Cloth a good choice for starting armor?
I figured it was a good idea sincethere is No ACP penalty and I get a DR of 3/- against any projectile, magic notwithstanding.
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Quilted cloth only gets that DR vs 'small ranged piercing' weapons - which is a pretty limited selection of stuff considering you could be wearing masterwork studded leather with an extra +2 AC (above quilted cloth's AC that is) and still no armour check penalties. That, and you look like the Shocker from the Spider-man comics... ;)
I guess it depends if you know you'll be mostly getting attack by arrows or not... if the bad guys choose to throw rocks, or hurl axes, or... gods forbid... melee with you, then quilted cloth is a little pointless.
It's an interesting choice though, certainly, and I'd like to hear how you got on with it if you do go that route.
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Quilted cloth only gets that DR vs 'small ranged piercing' weapons - which is a pretty limited selection of stuff considering you could be wearing masterwork studded leather with an extra +2 AC (above quilted cloth's AC that is) and still no armour check penalties. That, and you look like the Shocker from the Spider-man comics... ;)
I guess it depends if you know you'll be mostly getting attack by arrows or not... if the bad guys choose to throw rocks, or hurl axes, or... gods forbid... melee with you, then quilted cloth is a little pointless.
It's an interesting choice though, certainly, and I'd like to hear how you got on with it if you do go that route.
Well, this character idea is for Carrion Crown. No Idea if that small benefit will pay off; I might as well play safe and get the much cheaper studded leather.
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To become a super buffer take Master Performer from the Faction Guide if your GM will allow it. There is also an improved version of it as well.
Master Performer (Kitharodian Academy)
When using your bardic performance abilities, you grant
your allies greater bonuses.
Prerequisites: Bardic performance class feature, Extra
Performance, Kitharodian Academy 15 TPA.
Benefit: When any of your bardic performance abilities
grant your allies a bonus, that bonus is increased by +1.
OK, Here is basically what I would do.
Some caveats:
I used 20 point buy and I do not know exactly what your stats would be however this should show you how to place what you have.
You have a total of a +8 to trip normally, +9 when using inspire courage.
Breakdown(+1 masterwork scorpion whip, +1 heirloom weapon, +4 CMB, +2 Improved Trip)
Masterwork whip only cost 5 gp due to Heirloom weapon.
You can trip from 15 feet away.
Your damage is ok (1d4+5 when dancing), as is your AC and saves.
If using average starting gold from the CRB you have 60 gp to play with for miscellaneous gear. You also have around 70 more pounds of carrying capacity in your light load.
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If I was going to advance this character I would keep on with the trip build. Also avoid offensive spells as buffs and heals will give you a better return with your charisma score.
You are very very good as a support character however via saving finale, cure spells and the oh so powerful Inspire courage. The finale and inspiration spells are something to keep in mind at each spell level.
When you get 2nds get the cure and Heroism. Another good option is heroic fortune if you are using hero points.
When you get thirds get the cure, GOOD HOPE, Haste, and Arcane Concordance.
Your fourths will most likely be the cure and Freedom of movement.
Fifths are most likely going to be Greater Heroism, and Greater dispel
Sixths are most likely Brilliant inspiration, getaway, and scrying greater.
Since you are going to be support, you might even take a headband of Int before a charisma headband just for the extra skills due to the fact you do not need to worry about spell DC's. You will want a strength belt too.
Feats to get: Greater trip, weapon focus whip, (If your GM allows it as mentioned by kingpin grab extra performance so as to be able to take Master Performer and Grand Master Performer as these as simply amazing feats. If not skip extra performance as rounds may be tight at levels 1-3 but after that you will never run out.) Perhaps toughness or the save feats as filler.
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Downsides: You will never threaten or get/grant flanking. Your damage will never be as good as someone built for pure damage. If you are in a small or melee light party 3 or less people with only you and one other melee this can be a small problem.
Upsides: You are the linch-pin of any solid group. Your melee will if intelligent literally die to protect you and your oh so delicious Inspire courage/Haste/(Good Hope or Greater Heroism) which can grant a Whopping +10hit, +9damage, +30 feet enhancement bonus to all movement modes, +1AC, +4fort, +5Reflex, +4will, immunity to fear, and +20 temp hit points.
Yes Inspire courage and Good Hope\Greater Heroism stack as Inspire is competence bonus and Good Hope\Greater Heroism is a morale bonus.
The casters will love you for Arcane concordance which is free metamagic and also +1 on their Spell DC's.
One trick that a player of mine used was to take the Sea-singer Kit from the APG, get the parrot familiar and cast Arcane concordance on that then send it over to sit on our sorcerers shoulder therefore freeing up the bard to melee. You do lose versatile performance however and I do not know if this trick will be worth it for you.
Lastly Trip will most likely stand you in good stead during your entire career especially if you trip an enemy from 15 feet away while it is next to one of your allies and in doing so via the greater trip feat grant that ally an attack of opportunity against a prone target.
In summation I know as a matter of fact that if someone brought this bard to my table both myself and my players would fall all over ourselves to be helpful due to the fact that this character can be such an amazing force multiplier which can make a game be much more fun due too all of the PC's feeling so much more awesome.
Female Human Bard 1
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +4
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DEFENSE
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AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +1 shield, +1 Dex)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Masterwork Whip, Scorpion +6 (1d4+4/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +4 (1d3+4/20/x2)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (standard action) (5 rounds/day, Bardic Performance: Countersong,
Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (DC 11), Bardic Performance: Inspire
Courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 1, +4 melee touch, +1 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Cure Light Wounds (DC 12), Saving Finale
0 (at will) Read Magic, Light, Detect Magic, Lullaby (DC 11)
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STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 13
Base Atk +0; CMB +4 (+6 Tripping); CMD 15 (17 vs. Trip)
Feats Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Combat Expertise +/-1, Improved Trip
Traits Heirloom Weapon: Whip, Masterwork Whip, Scorpion, Sacred Touch
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb +2, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Knowledge: Arcana +6, Knowledge:
Dungeoneering +2, Knowledge: Engineering +2, Knowledge: Geography +2, Knowledge: History +2,
Knowledge: Local +2, Knowledge: Nature +6, Knowledge: Nobility +2, Knowledge: Religion +6, Knowledge:
The Planes +2, Linguistics +5, Perception +4, Perform: Dance +5, Perform: Oratory +5, Ride -1, Spellcraft
+5, Stealth -1, Swim +2, Use Magic Device +5
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven
SQ Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex)
Combat Gear Buckler, Masterwork Whip, Scorpion, Parade Armor;
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add + 1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (5 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (DC 11) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage
rolls.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Sacred Touch You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born
under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer. As a standard
action, you may automatically stabilize a dying creature merely with a touch.
Oooh, oooh, support bard. Play it smart, take the UM 1st level spell Vocal Alteration. Is a fortitude save that messes with other caster's speech, and we all know that casters number one crud save is fortitude. Nothing says support like not letting an enemy caster act to harm your friends.
Restful sleep from the APG is also good if you do not have a cleric or oracle handy, and unlike napstack, you can use it several times a week. Although napstack would also be nice to have if you don't have a true divine caster.
hrm...
IMHO, the masterpieces aren't all that great. Sacrificing spell slots as a bard is rather... harsh, and feats as well. But if you're into that sorta thing, more powah to ya.
Never ever multiclass a bard! That is the number one way to make a bard a gimp. All Bard abilitys are based on there level. The only exception to this rule is 2 level dip. And even then it's a wast of time. The most you will ever get is rogue:evasion/trapfinding. And it's still not worth delaying inspire courage.
Anatomist is a wast of a trat. It only works some times and is only a +1. +2 Init helps you every combat.
I did mess up thow I did not give my bard Use Magic Device. Slaps forhead. Ya make sure you work that one in. It's the single most important skill for a bard to take.
The only problem with taking more bard spells after level 4. There bard spells. You can get most of the good bard spells with out geting more of them.
I disagree. My bard is multiclassed, and I think she does a great job of supporting her party with her Sorcerer and Druid levels. The Sorcerer level grants her access to spells that are not on the Bard spell list, plus if she ever gets into a prestige class, she can use the +1 Spellcaster Level spells to boost her more power sorcerer spellcasting levels.
The Druid levels grants her class skills and abilities in getting around outdoors -- she can track about as well as a Ranger of her level, for example, plus more spells that she can use like flaming sphere, a great spell because not only does it do damage at a range, but it also has other uses such as taking up space, and letting others know where a hidden enemy is that you've found with your maxed out Perception roll. Plus, with the ability to spontaneously convert Druid spells to summon nature's ally, you can help any Rogue within close range by dropping a creature to flank her opponent. (And giant centipedes have many more uses around the house...)
A cleric would probably also be a great multiclass option. Off the top of my head, I'd favor taking the Rune domain, having memories of how useful it can be to lay down squares of blasting goodness.
Spells that I've found are great to have: grease (I don't know if this is on the Bard's list -- my character got it as a Sorcerer. Not only helps control the battlefield, but also is a good way to help a comrade who's just been grabbed or grappled), expeditious retreat, gallant inspiration, summon monster, hold person, hideous laughter, feather fall
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OK so you multiclassed a bard and gained what? You gain the ability to not need a umd check? wow realy? Levels in any spell casting class thats what you gain. With most spells being affected by level you just gimped you imspire courage to do what?
Druid : you clame you gain out door skills. You are streached for skill points as it is. You can leave this for some one else. You can use cure light wounds wands. Flaming sphere compared to lets say geting +1 to hit and damage from inspire courage one level earlyer? hmmm ill take the inspire courage for the better of the two. And they are wis base caster so you just made your character monk MAD. Just ask any one that plays a monk how hard it is to make one that works.
Cleric : Well with a UMD check I can use any of the cleric remove XXXX. One level of domain powers is not going to make up for the delay of inspire courage. And agan you made your self MAD like a monk. What are you realy gaing? Channel Positive stuck at 1D6 or 2D6? Get a wand of cure light wounds it works better.
Sorcerer : grease ? realy realy your going to take a spell on the bard list that is usless after level 5? Expeditious retreat, gallant inspiration, summon monster, hold person(last rounds per level of sorcerer), Hideous laughter(on the bard list), Feather fall. With the exception of feather fall Wand and UMD is much better. Hold Person and hideous Laughter relay on caster level for duration. Im unimpressed for what you give up. And almost every thing listed you can do with a UMD check and a wands. So there is no up side for the sorcerer. If you realy want spell from the sorcerer list. Magician bard at level 2 and every 4 levels there after can take a spell from any arcane casters list. The two top picks are from the summoner list Hase(2nd level) Black Tentacles(3rd level). Then any thing you want.
I do alot of number crunching when I make characters. Some times it makes sense to multiclass. Fighter 14/Rogue3/Paladin3, Bard18/Rogue2, Fighter12/Ranger6/Rogue2, Oracle18/Paladin2, Rogue19/Fighter1 or Barbarian1. They are all bring somthing exta to the table that a strigth class could not do. Most of the time multiclassing in pathfinder is not worth what you give up. They spread out the powers of the classes to make it good to stay with one class. Unlike 3.5 I find my self with very few multiclass builds in pathfinder. In 3.5 almost all my builds where multiclass becous they where front loaded with every thing I needed.
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Ok, so for anyone still interested in what I have decided to do for this character build, I have provided this final draft:
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lvl 1 Bard(Favored; Skill bonus), Human
STR 14
DEX 18(racial +2)
CON 15
INT 14
WIS 13
CHA 17
Saves:
F +2
R +6
W +3
Scorpion Whip (Adventurer's Armory)
1d4 slashing, crit 20/2X, disarm and trip
Pending GM approval, I will replace Urban Child Trait for Heirloom Masterwork Scorpion Whip.
Studded Leather(From what I read, EXACTLY the same as parade armor sans the mini nation bonus thing)
Skills taken: Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal, Perception, Perform: Act, Perform: Comedy, Stealth, and Use Magic Device.
Feats: Combat Expertise and Improved Trip
Traits: Chance Savior(Carion crown feat; adds +2 init) and Urban Child: Disable Device(APG)
Spells:
Lvl 0: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, and Spark
Lvl 1: Grease and Saving Finale
SO, what do you think?
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Ok, so for anyone still interested in what I have decided to do for this character build, I have provided this final draft:
<SNIP!>
SO, what do you think?
I like it! I think you're off to a fantastic start! Now, just focus on trying to keep yourself positioned in ways that minimize your potential to be hit with an axe while maintaining the "Awesome." Your party should protect you from that point forward.
Grease is a surprising choice, though. Were you aware of its use to disarm, or that any target that so much as attempts to simply MOVE within the area of its effect becomes flat-footed? (Yep. Sneak Attack City, Population: Your Rogue)
Check out This Thread
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Grease is a surprising choice, though. Were you aware of its use to disarm, or that any target that so much as attempts to simply MOVE within the area of its effect becomes flat-footed? (Yep. Sneak Attack City, Population: Your Rogue)
I also can cast grease on my partner's armor/clothing to give them a bonus to resist grapples(they are pretty damn tasty though).
I also have been reading through that thread; I actually faved Howie23's post that consolidated most of the rules. Very handy list!
I recommend charm person, especially if you have a high initiative score. It's simply an excellent spell, especially if you're going to be facing humanoids with any frequency. Ask your DM about it. It also balances Grease (a Reflex save).
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Only a few things I see.
Preform: Act and comadey then haven skill ranks in bluff.
Versatile Performance (Ex): Act(Bluff/Disquise)Comadey(Bluff/Intimadate)
Thats why I recomended:
Versatile Performance (Ex): Act(Bluff/Disquise) Oratary(Diplomacy/Sense Motive)
Skills taken: Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal, Perception, Perform: Act, Perform: Comedy, Stealth, and Use Magic Device.
With versatile performance you cover disquise and intimadate.
My suggestion: Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Intimadate, Perception, Perform: Act, Perform:Oratary, Stealth, Use Magic Device, And any one knowlage skills. (Or just drop the intimadate and get two knowlage skills.)
Versatile performance covers. Bluff, Diplomacy, Disquise, and Sense Motive.
My suggestion for spells is to start with saving fanile and cure light wounds. This is good low level healing untill you get a wand of cure light wounds. And it's only two more levels to get your next 1st level spell. Sorry just not a big fan of greas. Mainly becous after level 5 it's only usefull if some one gets grapled.
If your going to take saveing finale as a spell. I recomend taking Lingering Performance at level 1. You can still trip with the whip and sense you have reach you wont get an AoO. Saveing Finale will be the spell you cast the most. It will help to keap you from needed to spend actions restarting your song. Then just pick up Improved Trip at level 3.
You must have a bardic performance in effect to cast this
spell. With a flourish, you can immediately end your bardic
performance when a creature within range affected by your
bardic performance fails a saving throw, allowing the subject to
immediately reroll the failed saving throw.
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Spells for most bards I build.
1st level: Charm Person, Tap Inner Beauty(faiths of purity. worship Shaylen. +2 bonus on all cha skill checks.), Saving Finale(APG).
2nd level: Acute Senses(UM), Gallant Inspiration(APG),
3rd level: Aura of the Unremarkable(This spell is one of the few where ill say. Why the hell do you not have Aura of the Unremarkable? Cheliax, Empire of Devils PC.), Good Hope(The is the other spell where I ask. Why the hell dont you have Good Hope?), Haste(There realy are to meny good 3rd level spells for a bard.), Ok this is one of the few times ill say this. At level 7 start with Good Hope and Haste!
4th level: Dance of a Hundred Cuts(UM), Dimension Door, Hold Monster,
5th level: Shadowbard(UM),
6th level: Irresistible Dance,
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IMHO, the masterpieces aren't all that great. Sacrificing spell slots as a bard is rather... harsh, and feats as well. But if you're into that sorta thing, more powah to ya.
Minor point of clarification: the masterpieces cost spells known, not spell slots... which can still hurt, but since the alternative is to spend Feats on taking the masterpieces, it's probably going to be better to spend a Feat on Expanded Arcana, get two extra spells known (from a level lower than your max), then trade one or both of them for masterpieces - a two-for-one offer if done right. Even better, if you're a human Bard, you can essentially trade your favoured class bonus for masterpieces instead!
Even better, if you're a human Bard, you can essentially trade your favoured class bonus for masterpieces instead!
Oh yeah! That is a really good deal. Net cost = 1 skill point or 1 Hp for a marsterpiece! Count me in!
I second Calagnars advice concerning the skills. Take a second look at Treantmonk's guide (Versatile Performance and how to use it).
So no (or only one) skill points for diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, disguise.
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Thanks calagnar, I'll take your skills suggestions into consideration and tweak my character a bit more.
Now I have been seeing that multiclassing isn't always good for bard builds, but I have also seen that maybe a one or two level dip is nice for certain things.
Would it be wise of me to go fighter at 4th lvl for a bonus feat? or is it more worth while to dip into the monk for the save bonuses?
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Don't ever dip more then two level for a bard. 3 levels can be done if your going to level 20. Some of your dip options.
Dip 2 levels fighter for 2 feats and all martial weapons.
Dip 1 level fighter for feat and all martial weapons. Better then two level dip
Dip 2 levels monk for save bonus and evasion.
Dip 2 levels rogue for trapfinding and evasion. I like this best in it lets you cover two jobs. Unless your taking vagavond child.
Dip 2 levels of paladin if you realy want a save bonus. It includes all martial weapons.
Dip 2 levels of Ranger martial weapons and one free feat. Better off with paladin or fighter.
Dip 1 level Barbarian martial weapons and fast move. Very nice over all. I don't like barbarian so ill never use it but it's a good dip.
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Don't ever dip more then two level for a bard. 3 levels can be done if your going to level 20. Some of your dip options.
Dip 2 levels fighter for 2 feats and all martial weapons.
Dip 1 level fighter for feat and all martial weapons. Better then two level dip
Dip 2 levels monk for save bonus and evasion.
Dip 2 levels rogue for trapfinding and evasion. I like this best in it lets you cover two jobs. Unless your taking vagavond child.
Dip 2 levels of paladin if you realy want a save bonus. It includes all martial weapons.
Dip 2 levels of Ranger martial weapons and one free feat. Better off with paladin or fighter.
Dip 1 level Barbarian martial weapons and fast move. Very nice over all. I don't like barbarian so ill never use it but it's a good dip.
Cool, this is exactly what I was trying to figure out. Thanks!
Also to clarify what I said earlier was whether or not to dip early or later. (my question exampled 3 bard/1 fighter) I realized the wording made it a little odd.
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That definitely sounds cool! How do you do this?
The Human favoured class option from the APG (page 23) for the Bard allows you to add one spell known, of a spell level lower than the maximum you can cast, instead of the usual +1 Skill point or +1 Hit Point for advancing a level in your favoured class.
So, for example, when you hit level 4 you can cast 2nd level spells, so you can, as your favoured class bonus (being a human Bard) chose to add one spell to your level one 'spells known' list.
The new Bard masterpieces (Ultimate Magic pages 21 to 25) can be learnt by trading in a spell known, of the listed level (assuming any other prerequisites are met).
You can, therefore, hit level 4, take the extra level one spell known, then (assuming you have at least 3 ranks in Perform (percussion), (string), or (wind) - the listed prerequisite) immediately trade that spell known in for the Triple Time masterpiece (UM page 25). Voila - a masterpiece for the low, low, price of a favoured class bonus.
OK so you multiclassed a bard and gained what? You gain the ability to not need a umd check? wow realy? Levels in any spell casting class thats what you gain. With most spells being affected by level you just gimped you imspire courage to do what?
I created my character so as to not need to use magic items, especially not to need expendable items like wands. And as for leaving things to someone else, what if there is not a someone else to leave things to?
She actually has a philosophy to try to minimize the use of expendable magic items. Sometimes a one-shot like a swan boat comes in handy, but generally she keeps expendable items for emergencies only.
Granted, another +1 for Inspire Courage would be useful, but the Paladin gets a +21 to hit on his initial attack, and her Inspire Courage gives him a +2 bonus. He's probably not even going to notice if her Inspire Courage bonus increases.