Is there a way to Get Sneak Attack on a 2 Handed Weapon?


Advice


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I know some people are going to roll their eyes at this question and make comments that its not fitting for sneak attack to work with big weapons, ect. But in all seriousness this was something that was possible in PF 1E. It seems like its no longer possible. Just wondering if I'm missing something.


Only if the weapon have finesse or agile properties, so the only 2 handed weapon with one of these is Elven Curve Blade.


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Kyrone wrote:
Only if the weapon have finesse or agile properties, so the only 2 handed weapon with one of these is Elven Curve Blade.

The Spiked Chain is also finesse and 2H.


lordcirth wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Only if the weapon have finesse or agile properties, so the only 2 handed weapon with one of these is Elven Curve Blade.
The Spiked Chain is also finesse and 2H.

I can guarantee you it would be easier to quietly whack someone with a warhammer than with a spiked chain. It's a bizarre limitation.


Well spiked chain is indeed a little bit odd

but yeah, spiked chain and curveblade are the options to go for 2h sneak (so most likely you are an elf)


sherlock1701 wrote:


I can guarantee you it would be easier to quietly whack someone with a warhammer than with a spiked chain. It's a bizarre limitation.

Sneak attack isn't really about volume though.


Also a rogue with the ruffian racket can sneak attack with any simple weapon which includes the 2h staff and spear or big bulky style weapon like the club, morningstar and mace.


I should clarify that I'm trying to pull off sneak attack with a Bastard Sword. No I don't care if its "sub-optimal" or a "bad choice". I don't want to use a different weapon. I'm trying to see if the new rules set would allow the updating of an existing fighter/rogue character.

That being said, I understand this is just the Core Rulebook so I may be somewhat limited in options given that there is just not as much material as there was in PF 1E.

(Sidenote: I did check to see if the Sunblade was still a weapon and once again to my disappointment, its not.)


Pretty sure a human ruffians can sneak attack with a bastard sword, but not two handing it. There is some language that caps your weapon dice at d8s. So any two handed weapon with d8 dice is up for grabs.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Pretty sure a human ruffians can sneak attack with a bastard sword, but not two handing it. There is some language that caps your weapon dice at d8s. So any two handed weapon with d8 dice is up for grabs.

I've read through Ruffian and Sneak Attack, and it seems like Ruffian specifies that it only applies Sneak Attack to simple weapons. As the Bastard Sword is martial it would not qualify, nor does it have any of the weapon traits that would normally allow it to be used with Sneak Attack.

Unless there's a specific human ability that I'm missing.

Or are you suggesting using Unconventional weaponry to select the martial weapon: Bastard Sword, and then claim it as "common" in another culture, thus gaining access to the weapon and reclassifying it from a martial to a simple weapon proficiency?


Ruffian rogue can sneak attack with simple weapons: so longspear too.

PS: Halfling Sling Staff, crossbow and heavy crossbow work too as the question wasn't about melee two handed weapons.


Ruffians does sneak attack to simple, unarmed and weapons with agile or finesse traits, only with simple weapons can they get crit specialization at lvl 1.


I'd probably allow it for when you are Unnoticed by a target.

Wait... are there Coup de Grace rules? I don't see them.


Anthony Kane wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Pretty sure a human ruffians can sneak attack with a bastard sword, but not two handing it. There is some language that caps your weapon dice at d8s. So any two handed weapon with d8 dice is up for grabs.

I've read through Ruffian and Sneak Attack, and it seems like Ruffian specifies that it only applies Sneak Attack to simple weapons. As the Bastard Sword is martial it would not qualify, nor does it have any of the weapon traits that would normally allow it to be used with Sneak Attack.

Unless there's a specific human ability that I'm missing.

Or are you suggesting using Unconventional weaponry to select the martial weapon: Bastard Sword, and then claim it as "common" in another culture, thus gaining access to the weapon and reclassifying it from a martial to a simple weapon proficiency?

Yes, that was what I had in mind.


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Unconventional Weaponry specifies that it's for the purpose of proficiency, not sure that would work with ruffian.

Even if it did, the longsword would be strictly better than the bastard sword since you couldn't really take advantage of the two handed property.


Stone Dog wrote:

I'd probably allow it for when you are Unnoticed by a target.

Wait... are there Coup de Grace rules? I don't see them.

If they are prone or incapacitated, they have -4 AC. Then you shank them till they die.


I’ve noticed some ancestry feats will say:

Halfing Weapon Familiarity wrote:
In addition, you gain access to all uncommon halfling weapons. For you, martial halfling weapons are simple weapons, and advanced halfling weapons are martial weapons.

While most are:

Elven Weapon Familiarity wrote:
In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons. For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial elf weapons are simple weapons and advanced elf weapons are martial weapons.

Elven, Goblin, Gnome, Dwarven & Human weapon feats only change your proficiency with the weapons. These can only work for rogues if they are agile or finesse. Halfing and Orc feats make their martial weapons simple which would work for ruffian rogues regardless of traits as long as they are a d8 or below.


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Rek Rollington wrote:

I’ve noticed some ancestry feats will say:

Halfing Weapon Familiarity wrote:
In addition, you gain access to all uncommon halfling weapons. For you, martial halfling weapons are simple weapons, and advanced halfling weapons are martial weapons.

While most are:

Elven Weapon Familiarity wrote:
In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons. For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial elf weapons are simple weapons and advanced elf weapons are martial weapons.

Elven, Goblin, Gnome, Dwarven & Human weapon feats only change your proficiency with the weapons. These can only work for rogues if they are agile or finesse. Halting and Orc feats make their martial weapons simple which would work for ruffian rogues regardless of traits as long as they are a d8 or below.

That difference in wording strikes me as likely to be errata'd.


Hmm, yeah. I was going off the halfling example and didn't notice the others were worded differently. That's probably the outlier then.


The difference between those descriptions doesn’t change much for Sneak Attack in the CRB but could be a bigger deal if more halfing and orc weapons are added later. The wording doesn’t make a difference to the orc and halfing weapons in the book.


Stone Dog wrote:

I'd probably allow it for when you are Unnoticed by a target.

Wait... are there Coup de Grace rules? I don't see them.

I'm not turning up anything. I'm pretty sure this was missing in the PT as well, I seem to recall calling it out as a problem. Just another houserule to make I guess.


It's not really about not being fitting and more that sneak attack numbers are designed with the expectation you're using a simple weapon (IE, your damage dice is smaller). Sneak Attack is essentially designed to make up the difference between using a club and a maul, so if there was a way to use a maul with sneak attack... it'd be a lot of damage.

Finesse weapons themselves take a penalty to their damage dice for the privilege of using dex-to-hit so it's not as big of a deal for the rapier, before someone well actually's me on that.

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