I've stressed to them the importance of skill diversity on multiple occasions, and in the past doing recall knowledge checks has saved them a lot of hassles in fights, si they geared appropriately.
Alchemist is master in arcana and crafting
Bard is master in occultism
Paladin is master in society and religion
Druid is now expert in nature
Rogue is master in society
They often roll recall knowledge at the beginning of the fight and then handling the dc26 for the haunts was child's play.
The gelugon fight was harsh on them but the druid had fly prepared and the paladin uses a silver holy bastard sword two handed and has attack of opportunity. It took them a while to get into position, but when they did the devil went down fast. They did not like it's 2 cones of cold though.... The druid had to use a lot of healing spells for that.
Otherwise the druid is master in medicine and has ward medic and continual recovery as well as a pair of healers gloves. Her modifier in total is +23 which means she almost always heals 2d8+30 after 10 minutes to almost everyone in the party. Trivializes after combat healing.
In the warehouse the druid trapped the golem in a wall of stone while they handled the two chumps in the corner and then they were able to focus fire the golem and the rogue had anticipated golem fights (after the clay golem from cinder cult) and gotten some adamantine arrows. He got some Crits in and pinned the thing to the wall.
Overall they did very good I'd say. It's important for your players to realise what the meta is and to team build around It, something that, as a DM, I stress to then a lot since it's their first campaign ever (they never played dnd or pf2e before, except my gf who plays the alchemist)
So at the quarry, my party opted to take the cave entrance to the side of the quarry entrance as opposed to confronting the shadow giant guarding the prisoners in the open - in our upcoming session they’ll be taking on the bear/ghasts, followed by Jaggaki and his guards. It seems odd to have them wait patiently while the party kills the bear/ghasts, and perhaps even stranger for Jaggaki to then engage them in any kind of conversation. Wouldn’t it be more likely for them to hear the conflict and the guards come to the doorway and perhaps throw rocks? And then as the combat intensifies, Jagakki get involved out of frustration over the interruption and stand behind his guards using spells? Or does that ramp up the combat too much?
Similar question regarding the snipers in J12. It seems they kinda only exist to aid in a combat with the shadow giant. If they see the water flowing into the quarry and realize that Laslunn has activated that hazard, would they then come running to her aid (arriving in a few rounds from J10)? Or once again, does that make the final encounter way too difficult? I’ve got a party of 6 which are pretty good at dealing damage, so ramping up encounters somewhat wouldn’t make them infeasible...
So at the quarry, my party opted to take the cave entrance to the side of the quarry entrance as opposed to confronting the shadow giant guarding the prisoners in the open - in our upcoming session they’ll be taking on the bear/ghasts, followed by Jaggaki and his guards. It seems odd to have them wait patiently while the party kills the bear/ghasts, and perhaps even stranger for Jaggaki to then engage them in any kind of conversation. Wouldn’t it be more likely for them to hear the conflict and the guards come to the doorway and perhaps throw rocks? And then as the combat intensifies, Jagakki get involved out of frustration over the interruption and stand behind his guards using spells? Or does that ramp up the combat too much?
Similar question regarding the snipers in J12. It seems they kinda only exist to aid in a combat with the shadow giant. If they see the water flowing into the quarry and realize that Laslunn has activated that hazard, would they then come running to her aid (arriving in a few rounds from J10)? Or once again, does that make the final encounter way too difficult? I’ve got a party of 6 which are pretty good at dealing damage, so ramping up encounters somewhat wouldn’t make them infeasible...
Yeah, either you need to find a way to telegraph exactly how dangerous making a ruckus here is, or you should insert narrative reasons that attacking one thing doesn't draw the ire of everything else.
Jaggaki by himself killed a character at my table (kind of--flesh to stone knocked that character out of playing for months) while seriously crunching up the party. I can imagine what it would be like to be squaring off with a clump of giants when chain lightning rips through the group.
Then your guys are playing much smarter than mine, who 5/6 of them have been playing for probably 30+ years. They JUST decided to buy Holy Water which would have helped them in a few balls in the first book, and after the Wrath of the...I've stressed to them the importance of skill diversity on multiple occasions, and in the past doing recall knowledge checks has saved them a lot of hassles in fights, si they geared appropriately.
Alchemist is master in arcana and crafting
Bard is master in occultism
Paladin is master in society and religion
Druid is now expert in nature
Rogue is master in societyThey often roll recall knowledge at the beginning of the fight and then handling the dc26 for the haunts was child's play.
The gelugon fight was harsh on them but the druid had fly prepared and the paladin uses a silver holy bastard sword two handed and has attack of opportunity. It took them a while to get into position, but when they did the devil went down fast. They did not like it's 2 cones of cold though.... The druid had to use a lot of healing spells for that.
Otherwise the druid is master in medicine and has ward medic and continual recovery as well as a pair of healers gloves. Her modifier in total is +23 which means she almost always heals 2d8+30 after 10 minutes to almost everyone in the party. Trivializes after combat healing.
In the warehouse the druid trapped the golem in a wall of stone while they handled the two chumps in the corner and then they were able to focus fire the golem and the rogue had anticipated golem fights (after the clay golem from cinder cult) and gotten some adamantine arrows. He got some Crits in and pinned the thing to the wall.
Overall they did very good I'd say. It's important for your players to realise what the meta is and to team build around It, something that, as a DM, I stress to then a lot since it's their first campaign ever (they never played dnd or pf2e before, except my gf who plays the alchemist)
YEah basically they're not adressing the ''meta'' of PF2E and trying to build ''individuals'' rather than a team.
Mind you it's not BAD, it's just suboptimal. In PF2E you ideally want 1 master in the team with maxed stat (cause the DC's on recall knowledge are HIGH!) in each of the 6 knowledge skills (arcana/religion/Crafting/Nature/Occultism/Society). each character at level 11 should have 2 skills at master and 1 at expert and no crossovers (it's not pointless but almost to have 2 masters of the same skill, it's better to have one master, and the next best guy be trained or expert and then be able to aid another on skill challenges)
The ''math'' of Pf2e assumes that you'll be at Level+6+attribute(5)+item bonus of 2 for most skill checks at level 11. (Jaggaki is DC 35 religion to know SOMETHING about, a level 11 cleric would have 11(level)+6(master)+5(wisdom)+2 item= 24 so needs an 11 to know something and a nat 20 to crit, and that's the DC for Liches, as a unique lich, his DC is actually 40)
diversifying into a lot of expert skills basically means you'll fail at more skills. More importantly, it means you'll more likely fail at crucial skill checks such as rituals, which can be massively powerful in this edition (resurect anyone?)
Offer them the chance to retrain their skill feat and skill increases with the next downtime block at citadel alterein? Maybe throw in downtime day cost reduction if they have a library enhancement or a parkour course training yard?
Also as a side note: the elf rogue of the team often does recon, accompanied by a prying eyes spell, and they then try their best to recall as much knowledge as they can on unknown monsters.
Mostly cause the rogue has analyse weakness, but also because it's helped them a lot in the past. Sometimes they won't even attempt attacks in the first round of combat as they're setting up their strat and launching debuffs to see what misses and what sticks.
They failed all their checks agaisnt Jaggaki and the paladin got petrified but in the end they saw a victory route (alchemist with expanded splash throwing 3 bombs a round to relatively low hp jaggaki) and stuck to it until he fell.
My group had the Laslunn fight last time. The sorcerers had wall of ice and wall of wind, but not wall of Stone. That meant that they were able to block the chutes but not the water source itself, leading to the whole room flooding. It added a really interesting dynamic to an already intense fight. They BARELY managed to win the fight, but the water level in the room is more than 6 feet deep and haven't disabled the trap. I'm not entirely sure how they will pull that off. Getting close enough to disable it would probably require an expert swim or fly check at minimum, and running out of air would be a concern.
So at the quarry, my party opted to take the cave entrance to the side of the quarry entrance as opposed to confronting the shadow giant guarding the prisoners in the open - in our upcoming session they’ll be taking on the bear/ghasts, followed by Jaggaki and his guards. It seems odd to have them wait patiently while the party kills the bear/ghasts, and perhaps even stranger for Jaggaki to then engage them in any kind of conversation. Wouldn’t it be more likely for them to hear the conflict and the guards come to the doorway and perhaps throw rocks? And then as the combat intensifies, Jagakki get involved out of frustration over the interruption and stand behind his guards using spells? Or does that ramp up the combat too much?
Similar question regarding the snipers in J12. It seems they kinda only exist to aid in a combat with the shadow giant. If they see the water flowing into the quarry and realize that Laslunn has activated that hazard, would they then come running to her aid (arriving in a few rounds from J10)? Or once again, does that make the final encounter way too difficult? I’ve got a party of 6 which are pretty good at dealing damage, so ramping up encounters somewhat wouldn’t make them infeasible...
My group teleported directly to the snipers, bypassing the shadow giant, which nicely sidestepped this issue. For Jaggaki, I played up that he was a sociopath that doesn't actually care if his minions are being murdered. He can always turn them into undead. And even the destruction of his body would just be a temporary setback. I think it made him seem scarier. Once my players realized they had nothing to gain from fighting him they used an Unmemorable cloak to erase their conversation with him and ran away.
Did you let your party assault the quarry in parts? Let them rest after they attacked a few times? I don't think my players will survive the quarry AT ALL. They just finished floor 7 of Tanessen Tower and are already almost completely out of healing. I think the bard is the only one with any healing spells left.
I gave my party the Gourd Home from the Bellflower network, which helped them rest in the Quarry. I'd recommend that anyone running this book do the same, the Quarry is a *lot*.
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I agree the Quarry looks like a lot (we might get there next week) but the bard in my group has Rope Trick which is almost as useful. The problem with the Quarry is that if they assault once, then retreat to rest shouldn't the entire Quarry be on guard and attack them on sight?
Keep in mind that the quarry is huge. If they don't just stride into the center of the quarry, but work their way around from the entrance off J1, it's a lot more manageable. But everything in the quarry pretty much attacks intruders on sight, anyway.
My party finished tonight. They worked their way around. Laslunn was a bit anticlimactic, as the sluices were opened for a round and then the sorcerer created a wall of stone that left Laslunn walled in with the sluices. She drowned before she could break through the wall.
The snipers did see the water running into the pits for a round, so they ran over to see what was happening. They took on the giant last, and it was probably the hardest fight on the night.
The Quarry is huge and I know they're going to try and sneak around and try and scout things out. That's what the rogue has done on Tanessen Tower so far with the exception of the 8th floor. And that is going to go badly for them. But with the Quarry being so huge i don't think a 10 minute invisibility (the rogue has a cloak and boots of elvenkind) will last him that long. How often did your party rest?I agree the Quarry looks like a lot (we might get there next week) but the bard in my group has Rope Trick which is almost as useful. The problem with the Quarry is that if they assault once, then retreat to rest shouldn't the entire Quarry be on guard and attack them on sight?Keep in mind that the quarry is huge. If they don't just stride into the center of the quarry, but work their way around from the entrance off J1, it's a lot more manageable. But everything in the quarry pretty much attacks intruders on sight, anyway.
My party finished tonight. They worked their way around. Laslunn was a bit anticlimactic, as the sluices were opened for a round and then the sorcerer created a wall of stone that left Laslunn walled in with the sluices. She drowned before she could break through the wall.
The snipers did see the water running into the pits for a round, so they ran over to see what was happening. They took on the giant last, and it was probably the hardest fight on the night.
The Quarry is huge but 10 minutes is more than enough to scout out the next location at the very least.
I let them have a rest after clearing the barracks and the lich (they defeated the lich and all the other giants retreated to protect the rebirth of their master).
It was tense but they handled a patrol of 2 poisoners after 4 hours without the spellcasters and then did the other half in one go.
They even managed to take on the giant and the snipers simultaneously (dimension door assault) and free the slaves stealthily which allowed them a lot of leeway for the sluice trap.
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I let them have a rest after clearing the barracks and the lich (they defeated the lich and all the other giants retreated to protect the rebirth of their master)
Same for my group. My interpretation of the quarry was that these groups don't have a lot of interaction. They all have their own places to sleep in their area. The lich and his giants will help if there's an assault they witness in the center of the quarry, but they aren't walking around and dropping in on the barracks guarding the entrance to the caves.
Even when they faced the lich, they took on the first room of giants separately. Jaggaki doesn't want to be disturbed, the giants in his room are there to protect him, and the bears are undead doing what they were told. So for me, as long as the first room of giants didn't last too long, it didn't become a multi-room fight.
When they attacked the bears, at that point the giants in Jaggaki's room starting throwing stones. After a couple rounds, Jaggaki got irritated by the noise and entered the fight. He doesn't have to jump into action—he doesn't particularly care about the giants, who he'll just raise as undead if they die, and he knows he can't be killed.
That's how I ran it. It was pretty tough ran that way. I also swapped out a couple of his spells for disintegrate, because my sorcerer abuses wall of stone a lot and I wanted to mess with him a bit. He tried to wall off Jaggaki twice and it drove him nuts.
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Maybe I missed something, but can someone explain how the PCs are supposed to be motivated to go through Dreamgate when they do not know it goes to Ravounel? I mean, after they defeat Heuberk they will be motivated to go to Ravounel to pursue the Scarlet Triad, but they have no way of knowing that the gate leads to Ravounel, do they? Also, how to explain the coincidence that the gate happens to go to the exact next place where they are headed in pursuit of the Triad? Doesn't that seem like too much of a coincidence?
To be clear, it makes sense to me the PCs are motivated to go through the gate, out of curiosity, and it makes sense to me they are motivated to go to Ravounel, to follow the Triad. But why would they think the gate would lead them to Ravounel, and how can I explain the coincidence?
Here's a thought: Perhaps Heuberk (or writings found on Heuberk's corpse) indicate that Lasluun's research suggested Dreamgate may exit somewhere in Ravounel, which is part of why she chose to set up her slaving operation there?
My PCs just assumed that the gate either led to Ravounel or somewhere else the Scarlet Triad was active, because they'd picked up that the Triad was interested in the gates. They didn't know if they'd be getting to Ravounel immediately, but they figured one of the gates would lead there.
Maybe I missed something, but can someone explain how the PCs are supposed to be motivated to go through Dreamgate when they do not know it goes to Ravounel? I mean, after they defeat Heuberk they will be motivated to go to Ravounel to pursue the Scarlet Triad, but they have no way of knowing that the gate leads to Ravounel, do they? Also, how to explain the coincidence that the gate happens to go to the exact next place where they are headed in pursuit of the Triad? Doesn't that seem like too much of a coincidence?
To be clear, it makes sense to me the PCs are motivated to go through the gate, out of curiosity, and it makes sense to me they are motivated to go to Ravounel, to follow the Triad. But why would they think the gate would lead them to Ravounel, and how can I explain the coincidence?
Here's a thought: Perhaps Heuberk (or writings found on Heuberk's corpse) indicate that Lasluun's research suggested Dreamgate may exit somewhere in Ravounel, which is part of why she chose to set up her slaving operation there?
I Framed it that the elves didn't have eclipse, Heuberk did, and he takes a hostage so that the PC's grant him free pass to the portal so he can secure this side of the portal, knowing that the other side of the portal is about to be held by One eyed Arminn. His mission is to secure the portal, go through (not knowing that the hags would simply devour him and armin) and take in the small army through the portal to hold citadel alterein and secure the ring.
The PC's learned that with a combination of interogation and magic. Also I made sure to mention to them that the village of Cypress Point was on the other side and was to be ''taken care of'' by armin. It made sure to motivate 4/6th of the group. The other 2 are the chaotic neutral barbarian and the neutral evil rogue so you know... they went along to defend their real estate investment.
Also I made him inexplicably french, it helps them remember...
I'm leaning towards Thropp being in possession of a letter from Laslunn (who seems to have an affinity for letter-writing based on earlier discoveries) which would ultimately indicate that the Triad knows that the Dreamgate terminates in Ravounel, and that Voz's disappearance could portend trouble for their (her) operations. I might even hint about the future attack on Cypress Point, and make it part of Laslunn's strategy to guard discovery/knowledge of the Dreamgate from this side since the other has presumably been lost.
I think it ties a tighter thread between Voz, Laslunn, and the Triad's ongoing interests in Alseta's Ring than what's written in the interrogation responses and serves as a failsafe for when my PCs ultimately kill Thropp before even thinking of capturing or questioning him. And gives the party a little more thrust to head through the gate sooner rather than at their leisure or at the behest of a worried council NPC or something.
Thanks for this. I'm contemplating the same thing. Even if Laslunn's presence in Ravounel is not a coincidence, we need some way of communicating that to the PCs and connecting it to Dreamgate. But what about the circumstance that the PCs just happen to have the key for THAT gate? That's the kind of coincidence my PCs will wonder about. Also, does Laslunn know the gate is near Cypress Point? I guess it makes the attack on Cypress Point make a lot more sense -- that Laslunn has learned from her research that the gate is near there and she is securing the town in plans to hunt for it.
Finally, in my game Voz escaped and presumably went to join Laslunn. Maybe Thropp's note should reference that fact... Any ideas how I can use Voz's escape to aid the narrative?
When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?
My group fought Aadrushian first, but did not free the slaves immediately. They didn't want to risk freeing them in an area filled with enemies and wanted to clear the area first. After clearing the threats, they returned to free the slaves.
I don't see how fighting Aadrushian doesn't turn into a disaster. The snipers are almost certain to notice and begin raining attacks on the PCs, and are likely to raise the alarm.
It depends on where the PCs enter the quarry from. The quarry is *enormous* and the vantage point the snipers are using is camouflaged. Maintaining that camouflage, in combination with the choke point the snipers are looking out of, will narrow the field of view of the snipers. If the PCs approach Aadrushian from the west (or even the south), the snipers could conceivably not see. Obviously, what the snipers can or cannot see is entirely within the GM's discretion, but you have the tools you need to make a decision for your table.
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It depends on where the PCs enter the quarry from. The quarry is *enormous* and the vantage point the snipers are using is camouflaged. Maintaining that camouflage, in combination with the choke point the snipers are looking out of, will narrow the field of view of the snipers. If the PCs approach Aadrushian from the west (or even the south), the snipers could conceivably not see. Obviously, what the snipers can or cannot see is entirely within the GM's discretion, but you have the tools you need to make a decision for your table.
I'd disagree that there is any choke point at all, given that there's a rope ladder (on the floor, that can be kicked out for deployment) and one can climb down to the floor of the quarry.
It's even specifically described in the AP as a fight that can quickly have them fighting the entire quarry. There is simply no way that Aadrushian sits quietly and throws rocks (even if the PCs have managed to somehow hide from the snipers, which would require them to be and stay directly below the sniper location).
Sure, GMs can rewrite the layout however they want and you can do whatever you want at your table. But as written the snipers can certainly see the entire quarry.
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If the guy in J3 escaped to J4, then that group would join. It's a long haul around the quarry that way—even if the guards sent one person to get more help, it's about 400' just to the giants in J5.
If they also shouted out the opening to J2, theoretically Aadrushian could start running over if he feels it's okay to leave the prisoners unattended. It would also take him several rounds to get over to the fight.
It's an extreme encounter, so an extra 80 XP budget for 2 extra players. So Barushak and adding elite to the interlocutor would cover that. But be wary of the possibility that other rooms join in—the two snipers would also be another 80 XP to the budget.
For me, I had an elite interlocutor and had the snipers head over after they saw that the sluice had been opened. But as I said above, it was pretty anticlimactic as the sorcerer used a wall of stone to trap Laslunn with the opened sluices and she drowned. If your party makes regular use of wall of stone, make sure Laslunn moves away from the sluices after opening them!
Even if one of the thugs from J3 (as written) flees wouldn't he then alert the rest of the quarry, putting them either on high alert or rushing to fight the PCs?
I'm just trying to figure out the logistics of all this because one fled in our game Saturday but with it being late I didn't have the other room rush them, that'll probably happen next session.
And I'm trying to figure out how to scale the final fight for 6 people since Barushak fled the tower and will be there. If he wasn't going to be there I'd just add another Interlocutor but I'll probably just add a slaver demon to the mix.
Merge the Rakshasa and his two shadows with the Laslun and Barushak fight.
If you look at the map its almost impossible for high perception archer laslun to not notice a fight in that room anyways.
Just make her and the interlocutor and Barushak come in in round 2 to give the PC's time to press and advantage.
Did they free them before or after they fight Laslunn? I have a feeling my guys won't free the slaves until after they fight Laslunn and might lose some slaves before they can be freed. They took the passage to J3 first, but with how often they're going to have to rest they might just get to Aadrushian before Laslunn.When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?My group fought Aadrushian first, but did not free the slaves immediately. They didn't want to risk freeing them in an area filled with enemies and wanted to clear the area first. After clearing the threats, they returned to free the slaves.
After. My players were actually pretty clever with the Laslunn fight. The fighter used Cape of the Mountebank to D-Door to the mechanism for the water, third action to Strike and got a crit. Using the crit specialization, he moved Lasluun 5ft away from the device before it could be activated. Then body blocked the device for the remainder of the fight.
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Unless I'm misreading the description of the hazard, isn't it a reaction to trigger it?After. My players were actually pretty clever with the Laslunn fight. The fighter used Cape of the Mountebank to D-Door to the mechanism for the water, third action to Strike and got a crit. Using the crit specialization, he moved Lasluun 5ft away from the device before it could be activated. Then body blocked the device for the remainder of the fight.Did they free them before or after they fight Laslunn? I have a feeling my guys won't free the slaves until after they fight Laslunn and might lose some slaves before they can be freed. They took the passage to J3 first, but with how often they're going to have to rest they might just get to Aadrushian before Laslunn.When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?My group fought Aadrushian first, but did not free the slaves immediately. They didn't want to risk freeing them in an area filled with enemies and wanted to clear the area first. After clearing the threats, they returned to free the slaves.
It's a reaction for the hazard, but the trigger for the reaction is:
A creature Interacts to throw either the primary lever or the backup lever
So, Laslunn needs to spend an action to Interact to turn it on first.
Hey, why does Barushak have a DC 32? I can't figure the math.
10+Level+Skill+Ability Modifier=10+12+4+5=31, not 32. Did I miss something?
There's a reference to a magical mace having the "Scarlet Triad symbol," but WHAT is the symbol?!?
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There's a reference to a magical mace having the "Scarlet Triad symbol," but WHAT is the symbol?!?
The same symbol that's on the pauldron of the Scarlet Triad Thug art on page 17 of Tomorrow Must Burn, and also on page 74 of Hellknight Hill, in the campaign background section.
I'm quite concerned about the quarry. My PC's have no rogues, terrible stealth and generally try to overwhelm the enemy with lethal force, although they are decently coordinated in battle. If they go after the shadow giant they might alert everyone in the quarry. Even if they survive the giant and the snipers, they won't last long against waves of Scarlet Triad bad guys.
I like the gourd home idea. But I'm still very concerned that the quarry will be their graveyard. I do have hope because their bard was captured by Barushak before he fled Tannesen Tower and that player is temporarily going to play a Bellflower Network rogue. So maybe there will be more scouting and stealth than heretofore!
Which reminds me. Where should I stash the prisoner? I think he'd escape the slave pits. I was thinking he might be in a cage in Vaklish's room.
I think my players won't free the slaves by the time they get to Laslunn. They cleared areas J3-J4 and then the rogue decided to use his invisibility to scout out J2. A few low rolls and successful Seeks from the giants made him retreat. They now know that the pits have slaves but have decided to clear the rest of the areas first. They didn't have too much trouble with J5 but decided to go out and rest before they tackled J6 and I gotta say... I'm kinda disappointed the Ghastly Bears didn't give them any trouble haha. Granted I rolled more 1s with those bears than I did any other night but still. They are just now going in to J7 and we're greeted by Jaggaki before we called it for the night. Since there are 6 players and this being a Severe encounter I'm going to add two Graveknights to this fight (fits the undead theme and I have 60 xp to use in the encounter budget) but might make them giants because that fits the giant theme AND even though according to the book Jaggaki doesn't have create undead, his giants are certain he can make them undead if they die so why would they think that unless there's a reason for that? Hence giant graveknights.
As an advice on GMing for those adventure paths, adding creatures is often more a of a time sink with 6 players.
What I do is I often have ''leakover'' encounters. So I'll have them fight the bears for 1-2 rounds, then have Jaggaki and his 2 stone giants come in at the end of round 2, making this into a bigger encounter, but overall not disturbing the amount of actors the players will fight.
I feel your pain. I ran my group through the playtest, and in part four they were about to assault Ramlock's tower at the end of this section of the book. As they began discussing plans, I had an NPC suggest a good plan to them, and the party largely ignored the NPC. They then spent two full hours discussing what to do before finally coming up with their plan - it was exactly what the NPC had suggested earlier. They didn't even realize that this is what they did until I pointed it out. To this day I don't let them forget it, and now they (mostly) pay attention when I speak up through NPCs when they are planning things.
A few questions about the fight with the hags on the other side of Dreamgate.
First, how do the hags get in and out of the area past Dreamgate, given that they don't have any planar travel spells? I guess I could just hand-wave that they have access to plane shift as a coven spell. Ideally, though, I'd like some explanation of how the annis hags can do it, because I would like the night hag to leave because of the following point...
Two, the hags have absolutely been kicking the butts of the party. Rusty Mae in particular is devastating with her claws with high to hit, damage, grab, rend, and rust damage. Did your PCs have a hard time with them? What tactics did they use, other than freedom of movement to deal with the grabs?
Finally, my PCs have now retreated back through Dreamgate. Can the hags recover from the damage inflicted by the PCs, beyond natural healing? They don't have any listed healing spells, so I guess not?
Thanks!
A few questions about the fight with the hags on the other side of Dreamgate.
First, how do the hags get in and out of the area past Dreamgate, given that they don't have any planar travel spells? I guess I could just hand-wave that they have access to plane shift as a coven spell. Ideally, though, I'd like some explanation of how the annis hags can do it, because I would like the night hag to leave because of the following point...
Two, the hags have absolutely been kicking the butts of the party. Rusty Mae in particular is devastating with her claws with high to hit, damage, grab, rend, and rust damage. Did your PCs have a hard time with them? What tactics did they use, other than freedom of movement to deal with the grabs?
Finally, my PCs have now retreated back through Dreamgate. Can the hags recover from the damage inflicted by the PCs, beyond natural healing? They don't have any listed healing spells, so I guess not?
Thanks!
I've always read it that ethereal jaunt allowed the hags to go into the adjacent ethereal plane and wander there, but you're right that it's not what it does. Plane shift as a coven spell makes more sense. Or planar binding something that has it.
This is definitely a difficult encounter that is very harsh on the players. It's normal they had to retreat.
The hags don't have healing, maybe that's how the PC's win, attrition.
I've always read it that ethereal jaunt allowed the hags to go into the adjacent ethereal plane and wander there, but you're right that it's not what it does. Plane shift as a coven spell makes more sense. Or planar binding something that has it.
This is definitely a difficult encounter that is very harsh on the players. It's normal they had to retreat.
The hags don't have healing, maybe that's how the PC's win, attrition.
Thank you. I do want to have the night hag leave, because she's fed up with the other hags anyways and the PCs killed her Nightmare Coalgnasher. Maybe I'll make up some story where she tricked the coven into casting plane shift and then used it to escape, leaving the other hags stuck in the Dreamgate "waiting room."
I am also thinking of having the hags successfully negotiate with the devil in the PCs absence. But I guess to do that I have to hand-wave that the hags have an item of sufficient value...
And thanks for the re-assurance of the difficulty of the encounter. Attrition is a totally valid tactic!
It says in the book that they used the dream chambers with their dream haunting ability, so the night hag can definitely use that to escape.
Thanks. I see what you're referring to but I need some more help figuring it out. The book says "Abelstia discovered the way station from the Ethereal Plane, drawn to it after noticing echoes of strange, dream-related magic in the Ethereal Plane. More importantly, she discovered that the way station’s dreaming chambers allowed her to travel between the demiplane and the Ethereal Plane by means of her dream haunting ability."
Nothing in the dream haunting ability would permit that under RAW. The ability says, "If a night hag is ethereal and hovering over a sleeping chaotic or evil creature, she can ride the victim’s back until dawn. The creature endures tormenting dreams as the hag casts nightmare on it, and is exposed to abyssal plague. Any drained caused by dream haunting is cumulative. Only an ethereal being can confront the night hag and stop her dream haunting."
But I'm ok with handwaving and saying that the night hags could get there via dream haunting, or by riding the nightmare coalgnasher. But none of that explains how the annis hags could get there, so I do think it is necessary to say they have plane shift as a coven spell.