3 - Tomorrow Must Burn (GM Reference)


Age of Ashes

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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
BTW, were Lacunafex a big thing in Hell's Rebels? I know from wiki that Mialari was arcane trickster in PF 1e, but I don't remember if she is major npc from Hell's Rebels or not.

She has a headshot inside of the back cover of book 1, and appears once or twice in the story and can be an ally of the Silver Ravens, she and her organization don't get a lot of page count.

Dark Archive

Huh, okay, so minor npc with bonus to rebellion then?

BTW, have to say it is nice that book does point out that, while beyond the scope of the adventure, pcs could actually infiltrate or join Scarlet Tried. I don't see WHY pcs would do it, (especially considering the circumstances), but still nice it was taken in account.


I have a question and maybe you guys can give me a heads up if anyone already ran it.

Reading through the adventure what is the motivation for the pcs to go through the gate in the beginning? Just because it is there, so the trigger would simply be curiosity?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TheWanderingM wrote:

I have a question and maybe you guys can give me a heads up if anyone already ran it.

Reading through the adventure what is the motivation for the pcs to go through the gate in the beginning? Just because it is there, so the trigger would simply be curiosity?

Finding out if there are more dangerous creatures right outside this magical door in your new home should be plenty of motivation.

That said, if my party doesn't seem interested in investiagting the gate (unlikely) I will have Wilford Lavendil of the Breachton town guard ask the party to investigate what's on the other side in the interest of the town's security.


Fumarole wrote:
TheWanderingM wrote:

I have a question and maybe you guys can give me a heads up if anyone already ran it.

Reading through the adventure what is the motivation for the pcs to go through the gate in the beginning? Just because it is there, so the trigger would simply be curiosity?

Finding out if there are more dangerous creatures right outside this magical door in your new home should be plenty of motivation.

That said, if my party doesn't seem interested in investiagting the gate (unlikely) I will have Wilford Lavendil of the Breachton town guard ask the party to investigate what's on the other side in the interest of the town's security.

True but the PCs have the portal key and the door hadn't been used in centuries.

I was thinking of the portal maybe acting up strangely to signal a kind of urgency, I'm sure the PC gnome wizard in my group will keep on investigating and studying it. I was just curious how others thought on this.

The beginning with the ambush / assassination attempt on the PCs and then jumping to "the PCs will go through the gate" is not connected in my opinion.

Thanks!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

TheWanderingM wrote:

I have a question and maybe you guys can give me a heads up if anyone already ran it.

Reading through the adventure what is the motivation for the pcs to go through the gate in the beginning? Just because it is there, so the trigger would simply be curiosity?

The primary trigger is intended to be a mix of curiosity, and as the adventure path continues, a need to fight against other forces who may be interested in using the portals.

But the main thing is curiosity. If your players aren't "self-starters" feel free to have one of their favorite NPCs in town be curious for them and hire them to go through the portals. We were deliberately trying to get away from the "NPC hires you to do things" model for this one.

There's not intended to be a feeling of urgency. It's kind of a good thing if the party takes its time between adventures to do downtime stuff in town or at the castle.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
There's not intended to be a feeling of urgency. It's kind of a good thing if the party takes its time between adventures to do downtime stuff in town or at the castle.

I plan on having a lot of this in my campaign. I've never liked the notion of a PC going from 1st level to 20th in a manner of weeks or months; it really should be a lifetime progression.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
TheWanderingM wrote:

I have a question and maybe you guys can give me a heads up if anyone already ran it.

Reading through the adventure what is the motivation for the pcs to go through the gate in the beginning? Just because it is there, so the trigger would simply be curiosity?

The primary trigger is intended to be a mix of curiosity, and as the adventure path continues, a need to fight against other forces who may be interested in using the portals.

But the main thing is curiosity. If your players aren't "self-starters" feel free to have one of their favorite NPCs in town be curious for them and hire them to go through the portals. We were deliberately trying to get away from the "NPC hires you to do things" model for this one.

There's not intended to be a feeling of urgency. It's kind of a good thing if the party takes its time between adventures to do downtime stuff in town or at the castle.

Reading through for me, the issue that came to mind was that the initial ambush might leave some players might leave players expecting some big attack on Breachill that they need to stay around to defend against, or, since they don't know the key they acquired last adventure goes to Ravounel, they might try to set up traveling there overland or something. Basically, that initial encounter *creates* a feeling of urgency, but disconnects that urgency (without metagame information) from the act of portal exploration the adventure actually depends on.


Thank you Revan. That's exactly what I feel as well and what I meant with disconnect. By the ambush my players might also have this paranoia or fear for the safety of Breachill that they might decide not to go through the gate. I guess I have to think a little more about. Anyhow I have time, my group is only at Voz's Bookshop at the moment, unraveling her notes and clues :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

So about that Dreamstone comma cursed, is there any way to decurse it? (Remove curse targets a creature, not an object)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3Doubloons wrote:
So about that Dreamstone comma cursed, is there any way to decurse it? (Remove curse targets a creature, not an object)

That's 100% left up to the GM. (In small part because actual rules for cursed items aren't in the game yet, so we didn't want to do too much with them—they'll be in the Gamemastery Guide though, but I'm not sure if that'll have info on how to decurse an item.)


You mentioned you are not directing the APs anymore James Jacobs, what are you in charge of now?

Not leaving the company I hope!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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ograx wrote:

You mentioned you are not directing the APs anymore James Jacobs, what are you in charge of now?

Not leaving the company I hope!

I'm directing ALL the Pathfinder stuff, and have been for years as Creative Director for Pathfinder. THat's a full time job.

Running and outlining and developing Adventure Paths is ALSO a full-time job.

For a while there, I was basically doing two jobs for the price of one, which is kinda lame.


Since half of Pathfinder lorewise came from your homebrew you should probably just write the APs as well!

Kidding, but I'd love to see an adventure written by you someday if possible.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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ograx wrote:

Since half of Pathfinder lorewise came from your homebrew you should probably just write the APs as well!

Kidding, but I'd love to see an adventure written by you someday if possible.

It's not even close to half of Pathfinder.

I'd love to write an entire adventure path, but they take a long time to do and that's a tricky thing to pull off with a single author...

...but stay tuned for something...


I am having some trouble to understand the map of the quarry...

Did someone was able to assemble the map as one?

Sorry for my bad english...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Note the different scales shown.

The bottom right map is the "overview", in a much smaller scale. There, 1 square = 40 ft.

The other maps on the page are much enlarged versions of the rooms (on the overview map, each of the rooms is tiny, only about one square in size). On those maps, 1 square = 5 ft. The corridors connecting those rooms are only shown on the overview map.


albadeon wrote:

Note the different scales shown.

The bottom right map is the "overview", in a much smaller scale. There, 1 square = 40 ft.

The other maps on the page are much enlarged versions of the rooms (on the overview map, each of the rooms is tiny, only about one square in size). On those maps, 1 square = 5 ft. The corridors connecting those rooms are only shown on the overview map.

Thanks... Now i see...

I just finish hellknight hill.. and reading Tomorrow must Burns i am thinking in making a Big Battle in the quarry... Every opponent making a stand in area J2.

Do you think it will be too much for 6 pcs (11 level)?

Thanks for the reply and sorry for my bad english.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It think having all of the quarry's enemies make a stand in J2 would easily overwhelm the PCs, even if there's 6 of them. You're talking combing 8 moderate, 1 severe and 1 extreme encounter into one big battle. Sound like the best option for the PCs would be to run...

You'd also have to prevent them from taking the tunnel connecting J1 to the rest of the rooms, which is certainly the better approach for the PCs compared to stumbling though J2 in plain view.


albadeon wrote:

It think having all of the quarry's enemies make a stand in J2 would easily overwhelm the PCs, even if there's 6 of them. You're talking combing 8 moderate, 1 severe and 1 extreme encounter into one big battle. Sound like the best option for the PCs would be to run...

You'd also have to prevent them from taking the tunnel connecting J1 to the rest of the rooms, which is certainly the better approach for the PCs compared to stumbling though J2 in plain view.

I understand ,

But thinking as Laslunn (if Barushak survive and return to the quarry), puting the entire quarry on alert would not bee the better strategy?

For example, closing all the tunnels and luring the Pcs to J2.

Why they would stay disconnected knowing the PCs will soon arrive?

Maybe if the Bellflower help the pcs in the battle they could have a chance.

What do you think?


By the way, thanks paizo for this wonderful AP..

Shadow Lodge

kayman wrote:
*snip*

I'm away from my copy of Tomorrow Must Burn at the moment and have nothing to say to your questions about NPC strategy (other than the truism that NPCs are not advantage-maximizing machines and that if you think they're making a strategic error you should look to see if there's a character-based reason for it). I just wanted to reassure you that your English is perfectly intelligible.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think it could be fine having the quarry be on alert and having a big climactic battle against most of the PCs, as long as you have the enemies approach in waves. For example, if different groups show up after 3, 6, and 9 turns. It would still end up very difficult for the PCs, but it should be doable, especially if they're able to retreat if things go bad.


Mechalibur wrote:
I think it could be fine having the quarry be on alert and having a big climactic battle against most of the PCs, as long as you have the enemies approach in waves. For example, if different groups show up after 3, 6, and 9 turns. It would still end up very difficult for the PCs, but it should be doable, especially if they're able to retreat if things go bad.

Nice advice!!!

I think this option is possible , and they can have the bellflower to give some support too.

I think they will be able to handle..
There are 6 players:

A bard
A wizard
A Warpriest
A Barbarian
A Druid
A Fighter (ranged)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

There's still much time until my group starts this adventure, so maybe it'll be irrelevant by then, but... I'm having a bit of trouble with the raid on Cypress Point.

I'm not entirely sure a group of four adventurers will feel compelled to go to an entirely unknown town and help? Even if they're good-natured, it could be looked at as getting in big trouble and not being able to tend to what they have to do.

Dunno. Such a scenario just popped into my head and I'm trying to find a convincible way to lure them towards the town beyond just there being ruckus.


BlackZack wrote:

I'm not entirely sure a group of four adventurers will feel compelled to go to an entirely unknown town and help? Even if they're good-natured, it could be looked at as getting in big trouble and not being able to tend to what they have to do.

Dunno. Such a scenario just popped into my head and I'm trying to find a convincible way to lure them towards the town beyond just there being ruckus.

What's your group look like? Connecting the bones of the AP is something I have a lot of fun doing. For instance, my cleric player has the Haunting Vision background and she's been having terrible nightmares about towns being consumed by flames. I imagine that she will spur the group on once she sees Cypress Point on fire.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

How about to secure the gate site? I mean, if a Triad member sees your players emerge from the gate and immediately sends word back to town that people with the means to traverse this gate are in this cave, might the group feel encouraged to go ensure the safety of themselves and their means of egress?

I can't remember the exact specifics and I don't have my book on me, but aren't there hostages involved in the town? Might be able to tie that in.


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Will be starting this AP next week if my players don't die defeating the Cinderclaw base tommorow.

For those of you who have got into this one how did you explain or try to relate the fact that this portal just so happens to lead directly to the very group they are looking for and just had showed up in their town?

I'm going to have to go with the will of the gods on this one because it is pretty unexplainable any other way.


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ograx wrote:

Will be starting this AP next week if my players don't die defeating the Cinderclaw base tommorow.

For those of you who have got into this one how did you explain or try to relate the fact that this portal just so happens to lead directly to the very group they are looking for and just had showed up in their town?

I'm going to have to go with the will of the gods on this one because it is pretty unexplainable any other way.

I haven't gotten to try this out at my table yet, but I'm looking to have my players learn through letters or interrogation that the Triad have been showing up where rumored gate exits were, hoping to use the keys to make their way into Alesta's Ring. Sure, they don't exactly have the right keys, but they sure feel like they should be!

Because, yeah, fight through a gate, get a key, move through the next gate doesn't make a lot of sense.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ograx wrote:

Will be starting this AP next week if my players don't die defeating the Cinderclaw base tommorow.

For those of you who have got into this one how did you explain or try to relate the fact that this portal just so happens to lead directly to the very group they are looking for and just had showed up in their town?

I'm going to have to go with the will of the gods on this one because it is pretty unexplainable any other way.

Maybe by this point the Cinderclaws have developed some magic to detect the opening of a gate, if they don't already know where it is? So a nearby vessel could have docked at the town, sent out a raiding party to scout the gate, and the rest of the crew are taking advantage of the unprotected nature of the citizens to fill their hold?

Because you're right. It's another really nice convenience for the story that stretches belief pretty hard.

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