BeardedTree's page

Does anyone know why the Weathered Wail would only attack the PCs for a second and final time? Unless my players stumble on its cold iron vulnerability (which I highly doubt they will) it's unkillable. That being said, yes the ranger took Eldritch Archer feats and can create cold iron arrows but with the windstorm heel already be at a minus to hit (I'm thinking it should be a -2 circumstance penalty, I don't want to make it impossible). And if he DOES then he'll be targeted by the Wendigo and will most likely die. Yeah I know there's a cold iron sword nearby but like I said, they won't figure it out because they never use recall knowledge.

My players wound up being forcibly arrested in our last game, all after fighting Kralgurn, two Theas (there are 5 of them) and immediately after that the Accursed Forge-Spurned. They had no problem with Kralgurn but as soon as the Forge-Spurned showed up they faltered hard. The Mastermind rogue only made one knowledge check with Occultism and the Cleric didn't make any knowledge checks at all because the way I wired "you CAN use religion" instead of "yes it IS a religion check" made him think he couldn't do so. So even though the barbarian had Disrupting on his handwraps his player knew what it was but his character didn't. Not until the absolute last round when just about everyone was blind and almost dead did the cleric find out that creature was indeed undead, and cast Heal on it to kill it.

Then the players rounded up the slaves and took them back to the temple, but spotted some guards following them. They didn't ask to follow the guards back to their base, but instead tried hiding in a bar for a bit. Then the guards succeeded at some stealth checks to follow them back to Fortunate Kord where they accused the PCs of dealing with stolen property. They managed to get PCs outside where the rogue refused to be arrested, and instead insisted that he was going to arrest the guards (because at this point they were convinced the guards were members of the cult for some reason) I don't know how you can refuse to be arrested but he tried. They managed to get the players moving, not without the rogue trying to stop every person passing in the street to ask if this was the way to the constabulatory (I think that's the word he used). Then he said "I stop at a food vendor" to which I replied "while being arrested?" He said yes. So the guard struck him. So I told him that he has two options: he can keep moving or everyone rolls initiative. He said "I wait to see what he does next". I said no, those are your two options. So combat started. They tried disarming and intimidating the guards to surrender, even while more guards poured in. Even still the rogue told these new guards that the first two were "under arrest". Needless to say that didn't fly and I wound up knocking everyone unconscious and they're going to wake up in the prison.
Which could prove interesting because even though they have all the equipment from the Forge-Spurnedin assuming it will regenerate from where it fell and search out its Soul Chain and search it out and show up at the prison potentially killing some guards.
Unless the PCs decide to break out as soon as they wake up. Then the rogue will have to give me a will save.

I have a question regarding the Regenerate spell and the Crit Deck.

The Crit Deck has effects like "punctured lung" or "ruptured kidney" that do things that make you clumsy or fatigued or enfeebled with a duration of "Until Healed".

"Until Healed" (if you don't know) means that the condition persists Until you heal back to full hp and rest for 10 minutes or receive healing from Treat Wounds.

The cleric in my party has argued that since the regenerate spell regrows a damaged organ it should fix that damage. Should it? Or should the card be treated as a special case and that "regrow an organ" is just flavor text?

The Laslunn fight didn't honestly go well for my group. There were 6 players so I threw in a slaver demon and Barushak was there since he got away earlier in the book. But with the rough terrain and the barbarian being dropped in the first round (I say dropped but he went unconscious from a card out of the critical deck, I honestly can't remember if it was a failure or hit against him). The ranger took out Barushak in a couple rounds but otherwise the slaver demon kept the druid and alchemist busy. Don't forget, if your players don't have silver weapons or can deal good damage that velstrac won't stay down. Idon't even think Laslunn didn't took damage in that fight. My players only survived because the Alchemist threw his only silver dagger at the velstrac (although later it was found out that he should have missed because he forgot to add the penalties for range increments but that was days later) and it was late in the evening and I felt bad for them. I thought for sure they'd go after Laslunn first but they felt the velstrac was a bigger and more immediate threat.

Personally I wouldn't allow it because to me both of those feats specify the type of creature they affect.

I gave my characters the option of joining the Scarlet Triad.

BeardedTree wrote:

Does the fact that the Soul Chains of the Accursed Forge-Spurned are level 11 items mean that the save DC for a creature that "has" one is higher? Also what does it mean for a creature to "have" one? Does it still count if it's in a bag of holding?

I treated the DC of the Soul Chains Transformative effect as higher(DC 34 I believe was what I chose.)

I counted it as being 'had' even when it was in a characters bag of holding for the purpose of the effect.

That's what I was thinking about doing, since it's a large item I don't think any of my current players will use it (the giant totem barbarian has bowed out of the game). But I know someone will want to probably sell it or try to transfer the runes from it and I think that'll be interesting when they make their first one. It'll most likely be the rogue because he is currently the only one with any real crafting goals (and keeps wanting better equipment).

Does the fact that the Soul Chains of the Accursed Forge-Spurned are level 11 items mean that the save DC for a creature that "has" one is higher? Also what does it mean for a creature to "have" one? Does it still count if it's in a bag of holding?

I had Veshumerix use hit and run tactics while hasted to dive bomb into the Magma.

1 action dive out of magma, 2 actions breath or fireball, 1 action dive into magma.

The players hated it. Fun times!

That... sounds amazing. I might steal this idea!

Maybe I gave my players too much information but I pretty much told them what Laslunn's notes contained, especially concerning the Eye of the Wise being used to open Jewelgate, Ilssrah being on the other side of that particular gate, and the Scarlet Triad wanting to weaponize Alseta's Ring. That got them into the "we gotta go now" mindset.

My players threw me for a loop last night. Before they went through the crack in the wall outside area B1, they heard the howling gugs and I thought that they also might be speaking amongst themselves in Undercommon as it is the only language they know. The rogue (unbeknownst to me) could speak Undercommon. So I told him that they were talking about the foul ghouls and encouraging the Deculi to eat it. So the rogue says to the group "let's try talking to them". And so he tells through the crack "hello in there, we can help you with your ghoul problem". Now, they have NO IDEA what's in this room. But he didn't care. Granted, no one stopped him so it's not entirely his fault but... still. So he asks them to come out and one (I added one since there are 5 of them) comes out and starts attacking them. That also means there are two gugs and the deculi on the other side of a narrow crack. And since no one prepared a light cantrip the deculi really controlled the battlefield since only two people could see in the dark at any given time, beingthe orc cleric and animal instinct barbarian at first but the barbarian lost his rage due to a critical hit deck card that made him fatigued. Then the ranger with the eldritch archer Archetype cast darksvision on himself so that helped. And even though the rogue sorta kinda metagamed his way into more combat after going down once they wound up victorious.

I have an idea... depending how things go I'll suggest to them that they rest before they go into that room. There's an NPC from our previous game that I might incorporate into the Grikkitog encounter. That NPC was a Bogeyman with the Implacable Stalker, Nightmare Lord, and a few other templates. It stalked one of the players (who is not currently playing anymore) but I might just bring him back to give them a terrifying vision in their dreams of a violent death in the kitchen, but when they wake the kitchen is still just a kitchen with no Grikkitog in it.

If they die it was all just a dream and it'll be the return of a MUCH hated NPC. Maybe they'll even find a top hat in the kitchen with a poorly drawn stick figure...

BeardedTree wrote:

When the Grikkitog entry says "This effect spreads even if the grikkitog does not have line of effect, though it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well." Does that mean that some part of the creature isn't disguised and is easily observed and targeted?

No it means that the grikkigog must be exposed, but when it is exposed, it is disguised.

This creature is a literal TPK machine, handle it with care, and make sure its restrained to the kitchen for some reason or another.

I was really hoping that's what it meant because like you said otherwise it's a literally TPK machine. What did you do for it? The only way anyone can detect it by RAW is if they roll a natural 20 on their perception, and my players are already getting frustrated with things requiring such high rolls (and they have some PTSD from a previous DM adding so many templates to everything that regular monsters were almost invincible).

I might make it slightly more easily detected when it is attacking them, maybe give it a -5 on its Deception DC. A 36 is easier to hit than a 41 after all.

I know this creature has been discussed a lot and my guys won't get there this weekend but the way things have been going for them lately... they could die if the Grikkitog is played by the book.

When the Grikkitog entry says "This effect spreads even if the grikkitog does not have line of effect, though it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well." Does that mean that some part of the creature isn't disguised and is easily observed and targeted?

BeardedTree wrote:

The only problem my party had was me trying (and admittedly failing) to always properly scale the adventure for 7 people.

So far, I'm keeping ahead of my party of 6 players. I'm figuring out and adding the 5 & 6 player loadouts for enemies and hazards. That way, regardless of who shows up that session, I'm set!

It's super easy with pf2e, especially thanks to sites like:
https://www.stephanedoiron.com/rpgs/pf2/encounter-calculator

I'm happy that you're doing a better job than I did haha I almost killed them when they fought Voz... it was almost a TPK.

BeardedTree wrote:

There's nothing to worry about. They'll wind up with more money than they need I'm sure. My party didn't really have an issue with money or magic items.

Money's not the issue from what I can see. They're supposed to have gotten a total of 175gp for 1st level, but if they sold everything it's over 300gp. The issue is that they don't have but a single +1 Potency rune that they took from Calmont's bow. That's it. And by the time they hit 4th, they will still only have +1 Potency runes on their weapons. That's it. No Striking. Just a bunch of 2nd level magic weapons.

But if your party did well with that, then I guess I won't worry about it.
Thanks for the feedback!

The only problem my party had was me trying (and admittedly failing) to always properly scale the adventure for 7 people. I do remember being concerned with my party not getting enough magic items at the outset buy they can buy +1 weapons with whatever money they get from selling things. I think the fighter and monk had +1 weapons pretty early on (they're only 35 gold each).

I think that table 10-9 is just a rough guideline, you don't have to follow it exactly.

And monetarily speaking I think they had enough money to almost completely finish repairs to the citadel after book one.

There's nothing to worry about. They'll wind up with more money than they need I'm sure. My party didn't really have an issue with money or magic items.

Hi. I have two unrelated questions about the narrative:

(1) The PCs just defeated One Eyed Amnin, and did so before going to the slaver boat. At this point, wouldn't it make sense for Bullbutcher to take off in the ship with the slaves in the hold? Or is he just so confident that he assumes he can defeat and enslave them as well?

My guys went to the boat first and when they got to One-Eye Amnin they tried to convince him that he didn't have a boat anymore and was therefore no longer a captain.

BeardedTree wrote:

doctorfabius wrote:

Hello guys, on page 27-28 are described the stats of the remnants of Barzillai. No AC or HP is provided so it appers that the only way to get rid of them is disable through expert religion check or counterperform. How should I manage that in a group where there isn't an expert in religion or performance?

You mean the Hellhound and Phantom Bells haunts? If none of your players are expert in Religion then they'll have to do what my players had to do, which was run away. No one was expert in religion at that point and they couldn't continue. I don't know if anyone else's players had trouble with that stuff but mine did. The Gelugon almost killed them but they thought "we have to check out everything right now!" And went to Lady Docur's and then the coffeehouse without resting. It was almost a TPK but they managed to escape. They came back the next day and missed all the other encounters inside the coffeehouse because the local police had shown up.

yes, I meant the haunts. thanks for advising, I think I will homebrew something to allow players to defeat the haunts even if not expert in religion

In book 2 I had to do that with my guys because no one was Expert in Thievery or Religion when they faced the Wrath of the Destroyer hazard. I would have thought that would have been a clue that they'll need an Expert in religion at some point. We're in book 4 now but when the PC who was playing an Alchemist decided to retire that character and play a cleric I hinted heavily that being Master in religion might come in handy.

Hello guys, on page 27-28 are described the stats of the remnants of Barzillai. No AC or HP is provided so it appers that the only way to get rid of them is disable through expert religion check or counterperform. How should I manage that in a group where there isn't an expert in religion or performance?

You mean the Hellhound and Phantom Bells haunts? If none of your players are expert in Religion then they'll have to do what my players had to do, which was run away. No one was expert in religion at that point and they couldn't continue. I don't know if anyone else's players had trouble with that stuff but mine did. The Gelugon almost killed them but they thought "we have to check out everything right now!" And went to Lady Docur's and then the coffeehouse without resting. It was almost a TPK but they managed to escape. They came back the next day and missed all the other encounters inside the coffeehouse because the local police had shown up.

I would think since it's not positive "damage" it would work fine.

It says in the book that they used the dream chambers with their dream haunting ability, so the night hag can definitely use that to escape.

I almost had a TPK with the Jaggaki fight. It didn't help that the rogue ran straight for him with piercing weapons and barely did any damage. He went down in round 2 or 3. The ranger started shooting at him also and only did damage with the elemental runes from his bow, and his animal companion made a beeline for him also, and went down before the rogue. The Graveknights I added didn't really deter the party too much except for their Devastating Blast. I know they could have done better if they had just focused their core on one enemy at a time but they didn't, and in the final round Jaggaki had 9 hitpoints left and cast Eclipse Burst on everyone (including himself. In my defense it was 1 am and we were getting tired) and dropped everyone except for the druid and barbarian.

I expect the Laslunn fight to be almost as nasty since Barushak (and a slaver demon) will be there as well. Although I guess I could make it a Sacristan from the Bestiary 2 since that's also a velstrac. And my guys HATE them...

Do you have to be able to see the creature to make the recall knowledge check? Did I miss that rule somewhere? If you don't have to then what's the time limit on that? Can you recall knowledge on the creature 5 minute later when you've scouted the area and returned to your allies (like my rogue often likes to do)?

BeardedTree wrote:

I think my players won't free the slaves by the time they get to Laslunn. They cleared areas J3-J4 and then the rogue decided to use his invisibility to scout out J2. A few low rolls and successful Seeks from the giants made him retreat. They now know that the pits have slaves but have decided to clear the rest of the areas first. They didn't have too much trouble with J5 but decided to go out and rest before they tackled J6 and I gotta say... I'm kinda disappointed the Ghastly Bears didn't give them any trouble haha. Granted I rolled more 1s with those bears than I did any other night but still. They are just now going in to J7 and we're greeted by Jaggaki before we called it for the night. Since there are 6 players and this being a Severe encounter I'm going to add two Graveknights to this fight (fits the undead theme and I have 60 xp to use in the encounter budget) but might make them giants because that fits the giant theme AND even though according to the book Jaggaki doesn't have create undead, his giants are certain he can make them undead if they die so why would they think that unless there's a reason for that? Hence giant graveknights.

As an advice on GMing for those adventure paths, adding creatures is often more a of a time sink with 6 players.

What I do is I often have ''leakover'' encounters. So I'll have them fight the bears for 1-2 rounds, then have Jaggaki and his 2 stone giants come in at the end of round 2, making this into a bigger encounter, but overall not disturbing the amount of actors the players will fight.

If I could actually get my players to focus long enough to actually DO something during their fights instead of them taking 2~3 real time hours to plan and then the plan falling through and them just doing whatever I'd do that. But more often than not they're lucky to get through one fight a session. Somehow the past two sessions they've actually gotten through two encounters a night.

But with areas J9-J11 with there not being any doors I don't see how there can't be leakover.

I think my players won't free the slaves by the time they get to Laslunn. They cleared areas J3-J4 and then the rogue decided to use his invisibility to scout out J2. A few low rolls and successful Seeks from the giants made him retreat. They now know that the pits have slaves but have decided to clear the rest of the areas first. They didn't have too much trouble with J5 but decided to go out and rest before they tackled J6 and I gotta say... I'm kinda disappointed the Ghastly Bears didn't give them any trouble haha. Granted I rolled more 1s with those bears than I did any other night but still. They are just now going in to J7 and we're greeted by Jaggaki before we called it for the night. Since there are 6 players and this being a Severe encounter I'm going to add two Graveknights to this fight (fits the undead theme and I have 60 xp to use in the encounter budget) but might make them giants because that fits the giant theme AND even though according to the book Jaggaki doesn't have create undead, his giants are certain he can make them undead if they die so why would they think that unless there's a reason for that? Hence giant graveknights.

BeardedTree wrote:

xNellynelx wrote:

BeardedTree wrote:

When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?

My group fought Aadrushian first, but did not free the slaves immediately. They didn't want to risk freeing them in an area filled with enemies and wanted to clear the area first. After clearing the threats, they returned to free the slaves.

Did they free them before or after they fight Laslunn? I have a feeling my guys won't free the slaves until after they fight Laslunn and might lose some slaves before they can be freed. They took the passage to J3 first, but with how often they're going to have to rest they might just get to Aadrushian before Laslunn.

After. My players were actually pretty clever with the Laslunn fight. The fighter used Cape of the Mountebank to D-Door to the mechanism for the water, third action to Strike and got a crit. Using the crit specialization, he moved Lasluun 5ft away from the device before it could be activated. Then body blocked the device for the remainder of the fight.

Unless I'm misreading the description of the hazard, isn't it a reaction to trigger it?

If the guy in J3 escaped to J4, then that group would join. It's a long haul around the quarry that way—even if the guards sent one person to get more help, it's about 400' just to the giants in J5.

If they also shouted out the opening to J2, theoretically Aadrushian could start running over if he feels it's okay to leave the prisoners unattended. It would also take him several rounds to get over to the fight.

It's an extreme encounter, so an extra 80 XP budget for 2 extra players. So Barushak and adding elite to the interlocutor would cover that. But be wary of the possibility that other rooms join in—the two snipers would also be another 80 XP to the budget.

For me, I had an elite interlocutor and had the snipers head over after they saw that the sluice had been opened. But as I said above, it was pretty anticlimactic as the sorcerer used a wall of stone to trap Laslunn with the opened sluices and she drowned. If your party makes regular use of wall of stone, make sure Laslunn moves away from the sluices after opening them!

My group has a bad history against anything I elite. So I think it would be bad to elite the Interlocutor as it'll already be a rough fight with a normal one. I think the slaver demon is a good fit because I've already thrown Sacristans at them and they don't like those (they hate bleed damage). And with the demon not being weak to silver they'll try to use silversheen on their weapons for that instead of the Interlocutor. Plus the Dimension door ability would be good to keep the casters on their toes. No one has Wall of Stone that I know of, and I say that because no one really tells me what spells they have, and the only one in the party that could cast it (the druid) wouldn't think to use it unless prompted by other players. Plus she mostly heals. But... Barushak knows Wall of Force. If I get the PCs in position I could use that against them.

Next session the group from J4 is gonna walk in on them whether they're prepared or not.

Even if one of the thugs from J3 (as written) flees wouldn't he then alert the rest of the quarry, putting them either on high alert or rushing to fight the PCs?

I'm just trying to figure out the logistics of all this because one fled in our game Saturday but with it being late I didn't have the other room rush them, that'll probably happen next session.

And I'm trying to figure out how to scale the final fight for 6 people since Barushak fled the tower and will be there. If he wasn't going to be there I'd just add another Interlocutor but I'll probably just add a slaver demon to the mix.

BeardedTree wrote:

When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?

My group fought Aadrushian first, but did not free the slaves immediately. They didn't want to risk freeing them in an area filled with enemies and wanted to clear the area first. After clearing the threats, they returned to free the slaves.

Did they free them before or after they fight Laslunn? I have a feeling my guys won't free the slaves until after they fight Laslunn and might lose some slaves before they can be freed. They took the passage to J3 first, but with how often they're going to have to rest they might just get to Aadrushian before Laslunn.

When your groups got to the quarry did they fight Aadrushian and free the slaves first, or did they take the path to J3 first? Did any of them not rescue the slaves?

My guys started using invisibility to bypass the pillar's beams which made some of the fights anticlimactic but also frustrated them when they finally circled back to A5 and the black pillar. I almost killed the monk because he tried sneaking up to the pillar and as soon as he got within 30 feet of the two Racharaks (I had 7 people at that point and they were level 7) they used their breath weapons because they smelled him but couldn't see him (and it didn't help everyone else was over 130 feet away). That fight was almost a TPK when he went down and the pillar started blinding people.

It also didn't help that the only people that COULD disable the pillar were the three people that were trained in Athletics. Word of advice. If you haven't already stress the importance of increasing their ranks in various skills... namely Religion and Thievery. None of my characters were expert in either to disable Wrath of the Destroyer. That almost killed them too. I took pity on them and let the bard use Performance to pray to Desna to disable it.

BeardedTree wrote:

I agree the Quarry looks like a lot (we might get there next week) but the bard in my group has Rope Trick which is almost as useful. The problem with the Quarry is that if they assault once, then retreat to rest shouldn't the entire Quarry be on guard and attack them on sight?

Keep in mind that the quarry is huge. If they don't just stride into the center of the quarry, but work their way around from the entrance off J1, it's a lot more manageable. But everything in the quarry pretty much attacks intruders on sight, anyway.

My party finished tonight. They worked their way around. Laslunn was a bit anticlimactic, as the sluices were opened for a round and then the sorcerer created a wall of stone that left Laslunn walled in with the sluices. She drowned before she could break through the wall.

The snipers did see the water running into the pits for a round, so they ran over to see what was happening. They took on the giant last, and it was probably the hardest fight on the night.

The Quarry is huge and I know they're going to try and sneak around and try and scout things out. That's what the rogue has done on Tanessen Tower so far with the exception of the 8th floor. And that is going to go badly for them. But with the Quarry being so huge i don't think a 10 minute invisibility (the rogue has a cloak and boots of elvenkind) will last him that long. How often did your party rest?

BeardedTree wrote:

Did you let your party assault the quarry in parts? Let them rest after they attacked a few times? I don't think my players will survive the quarry AT ALL. They just finished floor 7 of Tanessen Tower and are already almost completely out of healing. I think the bard is the only one with any healing spells left.

I gave my party the Gourd Home from the Bellflower network, which helped them rest in the Quarry. I'd recommend that anyone running this book do the same, the Quarry is a *lot*.

I agree the Quarry looks like a lot (we might get there next week) but the bard in my group has Rope Trick which is almost as useful. The problem with the Quarry is that if they assault once, then retreat to rest shouldn't the entire Quarry be on guard and attack them on sight?

BeardedTree wrote:

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

You can wear your entire bulk allowance on your body. You can wear a few thousand candles if you want.

Okay I figured I'd ask because I know my players will definitely ask. And make dumb jokes.

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

Did you let your party assault the quarry in parts? Let them rest after they attacked a few times? I don't think my players will survive the quarry AT ALL. They just finished floor 7 of Tanessen Tower and are already almost completely out of healing. I think the bard is the only one with any healing spells left.

BeardedTree wrote:

If I was your GM I would give you the +5 bonus to damage on top of your Animal Instinct rage because it seems like that Instinct is ridiculously underpowered compared to the Titan Mauler.

Have you ever seen a Titan Mauler in play? Because the cost of that damage is the worst AC of any martial. The Animal Barbarian meanwhile gets the best AC of the class. Compare at level 8:

Giant = 10+10(t)+ 1 rune + 5 dex/armor - 2 rage penalty = 24
Animal = 10+12(e) + 1 rune + 3 dex + 1 status bonus = 27

A 3 point AC swing is actually really absurd. You can make a pretty good case that Titan Mauler is just straight worse. (This is without touching on the fact that Animal can rock a d12 weapon while keeping a hand free for shields and potions, which is admittedly not relevant in Animal Form.)

Quote:

Seriously though why do the Animal Instinct feats stop at level 12?

Same reason spirit's did: page count.

Pumpkinhead11 wrote:

Damage increases don’t seem to be that rare just looking through the CRB. All of them seem to come at either a cost, or are subject to variety of some kind. Gaining the damage from Animal Form would come the cost of being Polymorphed.

Care to name some examples? Because being polymorphed isn't a particular hard cost for a build that doesn't need its hands and can't take concentrate actions like spell casting anyway. You can deal that extra damage on every attack, which is way more often than say "the first attack you make after casting a spell that round" and cheaper than "I'm stuck swinging d6 weapons around to use this" and what have you.

Quote:

The damage seems like it might still be lower than a Titan Mauler as well, but would have to check the math before i can say for certain.

Again, though, damage isn't the whole picture here. Titans are FRAGILE.

I actually have a Titan Mauler in my game and he is NOT that fragile, especially with the bard constantly harmonizing Inspire Courage and Defense. Granted, he used a shield a lot but now that he's taking Mauler Archetype feats he'll probably be more squishy. But with three characters healing him damage won't really matter too much until they get into multiple encounters per day, or if he gets fatigued like he was in the second part of book three of AoA.

But you're right a 3 point AC swing is huge in this edition where every + or - 1 counts. My guys are level 10 and I think his AC is 26 while raging (I don't have his sheet in front of me) before the Bard does his thing.

If I was your GM I would give you the +5 bonus to damage on top of your Animal Instinct rage because it seems like that Instinct is ridiculously underpowered compared to the Titan Mauler. But there is one other positive to this feat that will be situational but still useful. It has the polymorph trait. So if they want to cast something like Baleful Polymorph on you they gotta counteract it.

Seriously though why do the Animal Instinct feats stop at level 12?

My characters don't have good synergy that way. They're already failing knowledge checks against things because their relevant skills are only trained. Even for the mastermind rogue he's only an expert in Nature and Arcane. Hopefully someone at least gets expert in religion because of what all is in the next book. I think I'll give them a few days of downtime before they assault Tanessen Tower, that's not really time sensitive is it? And maybe some more before they leave for the quarry. But I'll definitely allow them to retrain some skills if they want after they get back to the citadel.

I've stressed to them the importance of skill diversity on multiple occasions, and in the past doing recall knowledge checks has saved them a lot of hassles in fights, si they geared appropriately.

Alchemist is master in arcana and crafting
Bard is master in occultism
Paladin is master in society and religion
Druid is now expert in nature
Rogue is master in society

They often roll recall knowledge at the beginning of the fight and then handling the dc26 for the haunts was child's play.

The gelugon fight was harsh on them but the druid had fly prepared and the paladin uses a silver holy bastard sword two handed and has attack of opportunity. It took them a while to get into position, but when they did the devil went down fast. They did not like it's 2 cones of cold though.... The druid had to use a lot of healing spells for that.

Otherwise the druid is master in medicine and has ward medic and continual recovery as well as a pair of healers gloves. Her modifier in total is +23 which means she almost always heals 2d8+30 after 10 minutes to almost everyone in the party. Trivializes after combat healing.

In the warehouse the druid trapped the golem in a wall of stone while they handled the two chumps in the corner and then they were able to focus fire the golem and the rogue had anticipated golem fights (after the clay golem from cinder cult) and gotten some adamantine arrows. He got some Crits in and pinned the thing to the wall.

Overall they did very good I'd say. It's important for your players to realise what the meta is and to team build around It, something that, as a DM, I stress to then a lot since it's their first campaign ever (they never played dnd or pf2e before, except my gf who plays the alchemist)

Then your guys are playing much smarter than mine, who 5/6 of them have been playing for probably 30+ years. They JUST decided to buy Holy Water which would have helped them in a few balls in the first book, and after the Wrath of the Destroyer in book 2 I thought they knew they'd need to boost their knowledge skills. And after the golem fight in book 2 I thought they'd definitely try to recall knowledge on the one here but nope. Druid casts Tempest Surge on it, then finally someone did and realized Ray of Frost is important here (combine that with the critical fumble deck and it lead to an interesting rules discussion on Magic Missile and Mirror Image).

Our druid has the same skill setup yours does but I think her modifier is one lower. She has gloves of healing, as does the barbarian, and almost everyone is trained/expert in medicine because they almost all have Battle Medicine. But otherwise there's no team building, no synergy. I expressed concern about why no one had the training in Religion and was informed that they "almost have to specialize" in their stuff. Yeah Alchemist is master in crafting, Druid master in Medicine and maybe Nature, and aside from the bard being Master in Performance I don't think anyone else is Master in any skills.

Add to this when they're in any combat with multiple creatures they're more likely to fall because they don't work as a team.

I'm trying something different with respect to the fortress, and we'll see how it works out. In general, I have found the module a little too deadly for my PCs and have been concerned that the fortress would be REALLY deadly if they took it on as written. So, I have been letting the PCs bleed out adversaries from inside the fortress so there will be fewer fights once they get inside. It's not like Belmazog is a master tactician, so it's very plausible she would let that happen.

For example, those biloko who can get huge hunted the party down at the site of the ruin/pillar near the fortress -- which was more fun because it gave more space for a combat with huge opponents. Subsequently, the party fought the dinosaur in the water around the fortress and then withdrew, so the fortress has time to reinforce the boggards outside -- including with the two chimera from inside. And the fight with them will be more fun because they can fly around.

It may be that things ultimately will be a little too easy inside, but I'm ok with that if things will feel more balanced and fun overall. Anyhow, thought I'd share and I'll let you know how it goes!

I let my guys plink away at the inside of the fortress, mainly because after adjusting everything for 7 PCs the fights turned NASTY and my guys don't use tactics very well...

My own 2 coppers on the resting situation for part 2:

My players were severely depleted after sunset imports+gelugon fight+coffee house+house for girls but they knew that if they were warned the people in the tower would move their 25 or so slaves.

So they set up a watch on the tower, the rogue of the party disguising everyone as beggars as they kept a close eye on the place and rested.

I think the point here is to create tension. Let them know that this is a risk that might ... Or not ... Pay off.

How did yours get through all of those without resting? My guys know that there was some urgency and that's why they plowed through, it's really the lack of expert training in Religion that really slowed them down. And the fact that other than the mastermind rogue, no one really takes the action to recall knowledge on anything (it took almost 4 or 5 rounds in the coffeehouse before the Alchemist decided to make the knowledge check). And I guess the fact that the bard, rogue, and Alchemist went into the coffeehouse first. Next session I'll straight up tell them that they can rest, get the authorities involved. They they actually tracked Barushak back to Tanessen Tower and wanted to go to the Silver Council and tell them about the Scarlet Triad being holed up in there but I wouldn't even know how to handle that. Maybe have the Council give them some sort of supplies, healing potions and the like. I don't really think they have the troops to handle that sort of thing. And since they just sort of booked it from Sunset Imports they never found the stash in the warehouse or talked to Sedranni to get that Moderate Maestro's Instrument. And I know the bard would love to have that...

BeardedTree wrote:

My group has a problem. They managed to take out the Gelugon without TOO much trouble (less that I thought), although it did use up almost all of their remaining healing. But since they still felt like they were on a time limit they went direct to the coffeehouse and almost got wrecked by the Remnants, phantom bells, and Barzillai's Hounds. They finally managed to destroy the undead, the bard used performance to disable the bells... but no one is an expert in religion. No one can disable Barzillai's Hounds. At least it'll manifest elsewhere in the city after the next sunset but otherwise they can't disable it. I'm going to float the idea of rest and getting the authorities involved in that one. That'll mean the rakshasas and Elianda will be gone but they'd be able to procure the services of an adequately trained cleric.

My players had to rest in there too. Definitely was too hairy to push through like the book recommends.

I think sometimes as a GM it's really okay to relax the timing of the story and keep your players from wading into things they really don't want to. Depends a bit on how much your players love overcoming challenges, especially when the challenge is one of attrition.

I'm definitely going to imply that they can rest. They'll need it since they have a habit of using up their healing spells during combat. I tried last night but they were insistent that they were on a schedule. And that insistence almost got them killed.

The only problem for the coffeehouse would be whether or not I should keep the rakshasas there without moving things along or if when they come back in the morning the town guard would be there trying to get things sorted out themselves and the rakshasas "hiding" upstairs. That could work since they're still trying to pin this on the Nidalese...

My group has a problem. They managed to take out the Gelugon without TOO much trouble (less that I thought), although it did use up almost all of their remaining healing. But since they still felt like they were on a time limit they went direct to the coffeehouse and almost got wrecked by the Remnants, phantom bells, and Barzillai's Hounds. They finally managed to destroy the undead, the bard used performance to disable the bells... but no one is an expert in religion. No one can disable Barzillai's Hounds. At least it'll manifest elsewhere in the city after the next sunset but otherwise they can't disable it. I'm going to float the idea of rest and getting the authorities involved in that one. That'll mean the rakshasas and Elianda will be gone but they'd be able to procure the services of an adequately trained cleric.

BeardedTree wrote:

They'd probably want the police to assist or take over the investigation.

I'm sure they'd love to, but this ignores the reality of level, a very real thing in-world. The PCs are a minimum of 10th level by this point. It's pretty clear that, without those currently in the Darklands, they lack a party capable of matching that and sending underleveled people is a suicide mission, so they have little choice but to let the PCs do it.

BeardedTree wrote:

We broke just as they saved Hundy and one of them spoke to him but the druid said that she was going to start healing people. I was going to try to use Hundy as the driving force to get them to decide what to do (because he's frantic) but I don't know what they'll wind up doing. My main concern is the Gelugon wiping them since by the time they fight it their silversheen will run out and with its high AC, To Hit, and the fact that we use the critical hit and fumble deck things could go very very badly. With how they play (with almost no tactics whatsoever) I'm even worried about the coffeehouse because I'll have to add another remnant and rakshasa.

In case anyone is wondering my party makeup is:
Human Druid
Lizardfolk Ranger w/animal companion
Halfling Mastermind Rogue
Halfling Bard
Hobgoblin Alchemist
Dwarven Giant Totem Barbarian

They can probably sleep between the Gelugon and later fights, if they like. It's delivering the warning that's the really urgent part. For the Gelugon, Nolly Peltry is there to help, and you could allow her to provide them with silversheen or other consumables if you wanted. Given her work with the Bellflower Network, silversheen is not an unreasonable item for her to possess...

I'll have to figure out a way to let them know that yes while there are police they're not necessarily qualified to handle things that mid level PCs can.

They're going to need to rest. And since it's already after noon and the Triad attacks during the lunch rush I'll let them. They still have some doses of silversheen left but I was hoping they could get to the Gelugon before their current application fizzles out y'know? If anything they'd definitely be able to get some more from Lady Mialari, considering Silver's Refrain is available through her teachings. I just hope they don't botch the social interaction with her because my guys have a tendency to either not ask questions or not ask the right ones (like asking about things not covered in the AP).

BeardedTree wrote:

That's actually a good point, and as soon as Sedranni mentioned the slave trade was illegal they changed their minds about the Silver Council being involved with the Scarlet Triad. But I don't know what the authorities could or would give them.

Well, per the AP's article on Kintargo, the high level people are busy doing something in the Darklands, so I'd assume it'd be limited to logistical support. I'd expect they can heal the party at some sort of central location, or provide some consumables, but probably not much else.

They'd probably want the police to assist or take over the investigation. We broke just as they saved Hundy and one of them spoke to him but the druid said that she was going to start healing people. I was going to try to use Hundy as the driving force to get them to decide what to do (because he's frantic) but I don't know what they'll wind up doing. My main concern is the Gelugon wiping them since by the time they fight it their silversheen will run out and with its high AC, To Hit, and the fact that we use the critical hit and fumble deck things could go very very badly. With how they play (with almost no tactics whatsoever) I'm even worried about the coffeehouse because I'll have to add another remnant and rakshasa.

In case anyone is wondering my party makeup is:
Human Druid
Lizardfolk Ranger w/animal companion
Halfling Mastermind Rogue
Halfling Bard
Hobgoblin Alchemist
Dwarven Giant Totem Barbarian

My PCs almost got wrecked by the golem. Two of them were at 0 hp after the fight. I allowed them to trek back to Breachill to purchase potions afterwards.

BeardedTree wrote:

But they do want to get an audience with the Silver Council to report the Scarlet Triad. How would I even do that? Do they meet with random people? They tried going to Halleka to have him get them an audience but with him being such a low ranking diplomat I don't even...

Ravounel is a relatively new nation, so it probably wouldn't have an extensive buerocracy. And given how much they hate slavers in Kintargo, walking into an office to say "hey I'd like to report some slaver activity" could get the attention of some higher ups. This could be a good opportunity to communicate information about Ravounel's recent history, particularly about the revolution and Ravounel's secession from Cheliax.

That's actually a good point, and as soon as Sedranni mentioned the slave trade was illegal they changed their minds about the Silver Council being involved with the Scarlet Triad. But I don't know what the authorities could or would give them.

I'm afraid I'm going to have a TPK on my hands soon. My group had a problem with the One-Eye Amnin fight, and all I did for that was to add a Slaver Demon. I almost killed everyone there.

Fast forward to the Sunset Imports. They managed to get Sedranni to be cordial with them (even though I was seriously concerned that the druid would just cast Ray of Frost on her because that's the kind of person she is, AND because they were convinced for a long time that Sedranni and the Silver Council were allied with the Scarlet Triad until they finally got the correct information about both of them) and when they found out about the hallway that lead to. The back they had the plan to use that. After a few critical failures in sneaking they started out the door while Lurb and Krawn had just started making their way to the door. If the Barbarian hadn't tanked the golem (even though he failed his initial save against slowed and a few against paralyzation) it would have gone even worse but I dropped the rogue twice and the ranger once, and the Barbarian fell a few times. I didn't even add anything for there being 6 of them. They've already used a LOT of resources to heal and even though they did a little shopping before they investigated the warehouse (mainly to buy healing supplies and some Silversheen and Holy water which I gotta say is impressive that they're finally making those kinds of preparations) they used said silversheen before they entered the warehouse and even though it didn't help them there if they take time to heal and with the time it will take them to get to Kite Hill it will have worn off by the time they could fight the Gelugon. Which I'm pretty sure will kill them. And that's not even with the other encounter at the coffee house.

But they do want to get an audience with the Silver Council to report the Scarlet Triad. How would I even do that? Do they meet with random people? They tried going to Halleka to have him get them an audience but with him being such a low ranking diplomat I don't even think he could.