Sabriyya Kalmeralm

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Goblin Squad Member. 567 posts (2,792 including aliases). No reviews. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 6 aliases.


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Good point about duration, although for my (GM) purposes I could say the wand has a higher CL. As to your first point, I think you are probably right, although there is some difference of opinion (see thread at link below), and it does make wand wielder sort of useless if you can't spellstrike with the spell. rike

Am I correct that with Wand Wielder + Close Range + Weaponwand + Spell Combat + Spellstrike a magus could have a wand of ray of enfeeblement embedded in their weapon and choose each round in a full attack to either: (1) take all melee attacks PLUS take a spellstrike attack using the wand, OR (2) take all melee attacks PLUS take a spellstrike attack using some other spell cast with the free hand. The idea is a magus wand wielder who can freely choose to do spellstrike attacks with the wand while leaving a hand free to cast other spells in rounds they opt not to use the wand. Being able to do so with a wand of ray of enfeeblement seems like a particular good option for going toe-to-toe with a beefy melee fighter, making the opponent weaker as the fight progresses. Any problems I'm not seeing? Thanks!

That’s wild! What feats did you take? I guess you recommend as my first investigator talent that I take the alchemist discovery mutagen? Did you go for the Piranha Strike feat , using an effortless lace?

Thanks. That makes sense. I'll go with the inspired blade build, but it's good to know about the other option.

Thanks. But are the builds mutually exclusive? It seemed like you were suggesting a DEX build could be a effective polymorpher with the agile amulet. How would the builds differ?

Thanks, everyone! Great suggestions. I will definitely do with the inspired blade swashbuckler dip. Do you have suggestions for traits and for feats beyond fencing grace. Down the line I will get an effortless lace and then Piranha Strike, but what other feats should I consider.

Ferious Thune wrote:

If you want a different direction, I struggled with my Investigator up until 6th level, because I didn’t really understand the class’s strengths. I also heavily focused on skills. My fix was to become a natural attacking Investigator. Starting at 4th, you can turn into a troglodyte and get three attacks. Grab an Agile Amulet of Mighty a Fists around 4th so all of your natural attacks get Dex to Damage. At 7th, turn into a Charda. It’s a small creature with 5 natural attacks, so not only do you get lots of attacks, but you get a +2 size bonus to Dex as well. And as a bonus, they have a swim speed and can breath water when you need it. One of the weaknesses of natural attack builds is getting through DR, but you can just turn into a gargoyle or popabola to get a big primary attack. Or a gargoyle when you need to fly. Buy a Monstrification Staff. You can explicitly recharge it with extracts. Now you don’t have to prep Monstrous Physique. Adding Studied Combat and Dex to Damage onto 5 attacks is very effective, and they all have good accuracy, since they are all primary (4 claws and a bite).

Interesting! Is all this shapeshifting available to all investigators, or is it an archetype? Just doing it with alchemical extracts?

Thanks. That looks interesting. Any downsides to the rapier? It isn't a light weapon, which I guess would mostly matter for two weapon fighting because it couldn't be a light offhand weapon. Would you recommend I also go the TWF route? Are other feats than TWF necessary? What would be a good offhand weapon choice?

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I’m making a high-dex, low-str investigator who needs to serve as the party’s rogue-type but also needs to be one of the primary melee combatants. I’d love suggestions on how to make him effective. I was thinking weapon finesse and then slashing grace (with Aldori dueling sword) or fencing grace (with rapier), taking a dip into fighter to help with the feat tax. Eventually planning on getting the weapon keen to get more critical hits. I’d appreciate any thoughts on that plan. I am also open to considering two weapon fighting, and I'd love to hear any other ideas. Thanks!

Did any of you change up the Worm That Walks' spell list? The default list in the Bestiary makes no sense for his position as a guardian who fights to the death (teleport, plane shift, dimension door X 2, etc.). I ended up having him prep deflection, and he's giving the PCs a heck of a time -- his high DR and high fast healing, combined with deflection making the PCs hit themselves all the time. He's been a major resource suck for the party before the final battle in Renchurch. Anyhow, just wondering if any of you changed his spell list as well. I think I may have overdone it...

That seems right, and an interesting observation about spread spells. Am I right that because channeling is a burst effect it could penetrate another room through an open door but only affect targets that are directly in front of the opening, rather than to the side? I guess it's just a question of whether the target has total cover from the point of origin? Sorry if this is a really basic question.

Interesting ideas, everyone! The mirror is not a major plot element, and for reasons I won't go into it is not something they are likely to manage to keep for loot...

This is an interesting observation:

2bz2p wrote:
Well they have to look at the mirror for three rounds, when you make them make a save on the first round, you have a good chance they look away and break the spell!

It appears the magic item requires repeated saves with repeated glances (not one of those save once every 24 hours things), so for the wizard to stare at the mirror for 3 rounds I guess he would have to make 3 saves... It does make it more likely they will break the mirror. And the fact those trapped within are stripped of gear is inconvenient -- and provides good humor value too!

The wizard in the party will practically automatically succeed the spellcraft check, but if he's captured in the mirror it may be a little harder for the other PCs. I guess this basically means that given half a minute the wizard would be able to figure out how to release any PCs trapped by the mirror. Kind of anti-climatic...

Thanks. The spellcaster absolutely knows the spell it wants to target. I think I will probably allow it with some kind of roll... Further thoughts very welcome!

Hey all. The party in a game I am running are soon going to encounter a mirror of life trapping. If it captures any of the PCs, it will take a command word to make them appear in the mirror and another to release them. "Each pair of command words is specific to each prisoner."

My question is what would be involved for the other PCs to discover the command words. The rules state, "The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified." But it seems ridiculous a ZERO level spell (detect magic) will allow the party to figure out the command words. Any thoughts?

It's because it is down a passage that has some curves that affect line of sight. The rulebook says, "Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile, after it appears it can move regardless of the spell's range." So by that logic it seems like a spellcaster could easily "define" a location in the next room even if he can't see it. Even though there's no line of sight, there's no actual physical barrier down the passageway.

How about targeting spells that don't, like fireball, include something shooting from the caster to the target location. For example, can a spellcaster cast an unholy blight into a neighboring room that he/she is familiar with, even if she can't see the room at the time of casting?

As another question about area dispel magic -- I know the caster can't choose which spell to dispel as is possible with the targeted dispel against a single target, but what if the targets have a bunch of spells all of the same CL? This must happen a lot, because a party of PCs that receives a lot of buffing spells from one spellcaster -- all will have the same CL. In that instance, does the caster of the area dispel get to choose which spell to target among the spells with the same CL?

Any other views on this? This is likely to come up at the table tonight and I would like to be able to say definitively that air bubble does not protect against suffocation, so we don't have arguments at the table...

Thanks! I appreciate the clarification. Yes, he's a pretty interesting NPC. Hope to keep him alive for 2 more skirmishes.

Hey all. Why is Lucimar able to channel negative energy and what is the damage he does with it? The module lists the frequency and DC, but not the damage. I was not aware necromancers could channel negative energy, but maybe I missed that somewhere.

Thanks. Good to have your views. Sounds like I made the right ruling.

Yes, and partly negates shaken. But to guarantee the PCs won't run away (or drop their weapons) in a fear situation is pretty powerful...

That's what I ruled at the table last night (in part because I was feeling lenient because it would have been a TPK otherwise, or at least a full retreat and I wanted to keep things moving forwards), but that seems a lot for a first level spell, especially compared to remove fear, which is also a first level spell. I guess the difference is that remove fear suppresses ALL fear effects, but it only gives a +4 bonus on NEW fear saves for 10 minutes. Also, the fact that Remove Fear is so explicit about new effects makes me think Swallow Your Fear does not apply to new effects.

Remove Fear:
You instill courage in the subject, granting it a +4 morale bonus against fear effects for 10 minutes. If the subject is under the influence of a fear effect when receiving the spell, that effect is suppressed for the duration of the spell.

Remove fear counters and dispels cause fear.

Swallow Your Fear, which is a mass effect and lasts 10 minutes, provides "You make the affected subjects ready for battle despite their fear. If a target is suffering from a fear effect of any kind, he gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a -2 penalty to AC. If the subject is frightened, he remains in place and gains the confused condition for the remainder of the fear effect, except he treats all results of 'attack self ' as 'do nothing' and treats 'attack nearest creature' as 'act normally.' If the subject is panicked, he remains in place and gains the confused condition for the duration of the fear effect."

Does this offer ongoing protection from NEW fear effects. That is, if a PC has this spell on him/her ongoing and then is subject to a fear effect, does he/she benefit from the spell, or is the spell completely irrelevant in that instance (that is, it only effects fear effects in existence at the moment of casting)?

Odd for it to have such a long duration if it only is relevant to effects in existence at the time of casting.

Thanks, Brandon! I'll take a look. I'm the first to admit that a big part of the challenge is my inexperience at GMing at these levels. The game relies on stacking buffs and teamwork to make minions more effective against high level PCs, but I don't have a lot of familiarity with all that and I can end up leaving it aside while trying to manage everything else!

Yes, I agree. Although I would probably allow it in my home game. So I guess that's the answer to the question -- not under RAW but a lot of GMs would allow it anyways.

By the way, I really appreciate everyone's help. I've never GM'd or even played at anywhere near this level (currently the PCs are 14th) in Pathfinder, so I'm really flying by the seat of my pants!

Right. Definitely an appropriate use for the haunt!

On a separate note, am I missing something or is the lich alchemist's fear aura really tough for the PCs? As I understand it, it lasts 12 rounds, and anytime the fear runs out or gets removed the PC needs to re-save upon re-entering the aura. Am I missing something?

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I'll see what the GM says. I do disagree with 2bz2p's shotgun analogy, because this is a force being generated by the character itself -- it's much more like pulling a punch than trying to do less damage with a bullet.

Thanks! I've never used magic jar, so I'm not too familiar with it, but I think I see the idea now. I think the PCs always have mass PvE up (why on earth would they not, given PvE is one of the most overpowered spells in the game), so there would probably need to be some dispelling before the magic jar plan could be implemented. Currently they are fighting in the honeycomb, with the addition of the alchemical golems blocking both doors and the lich alchemist throwing bombs. We are just starting, so it will be interesting to see how they do. Then I guess Lucimar will take his stand with minions in the next set of rooms.

I'm playing a telekinetic kineticist. I'm contemplating using throw foe against a potential foe that may not have many HP. Can I choose to do less than my full blast damage of 3d6+7, which might kill the target?

Thanks! That's generally along the lines of what I was thinking, although it isn't clear to me the minions have much ability to harm the PCs. Any mass buffs you would suggest?

I'm not very experienced with magic jar and/or possession. Can you explain better how that works? Did you cast both spells or one or the other? What is the difference? Is the general idea that Lucimar casts spells at a distance from the body of a minion? With both spells could Lucimar fully perceive the battle scene from a couple rooms away?

Thanks again!

After having to retreat after an ambush by the morhgs and the worg necromancer Lucimar descending into the catacombs, the party is planning to re-enter through the grate past St. Vesbias' tomb. The WW knows the party's whereabouts, so I'm curious about any tips on how to arrange the foes at this point. I figure the lich alchemist will continue to defend his lab, but perhaps the golems will throw bombs at the PCs while they are engaged with the demon in the honeycomb. I think the Morhgs and monks may head over to the grotto to reinforce the monks already there -- basically meaning there will be a battle royale in those chambers past the catacombs.

Any thoughts on how to run that big battle in the catacombs -- strategies of WW monks (novices) in that kind of a battle? Any other thoughts?


Can I make repeated attempts to sicken a single foe? The spell does not say no...

Very interesting observation. Is this a well-recognized thing, that "thematic" means no effect on mechanics? I can't find anything along those lines with a quick search.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
The one thing I've always been unclear on how it's supposed to work regarding the kineticist is - how visible is aether normally?

Aether is normally invisible I think. For example, the aether elemental has constant invisibility.

I agree with the points people are making about the manifestations not being visible if not emitting light...

Thanks. Yeah, I tend to agree that it would allow a foe to pinpoint the my location, but still suffer the other difficulties in targeting me. Even if they could not see what was happening on my body (because I'm invisible), I think they would see a disturbance in dust and pebbles or whatever around my character.

Elemental overflow provides that "a kineticist’s body surges with energy from her chosen element whenever she accepts burn, causing her to glow with a nimbus of fire, weep water from her pores, or experience some other thematic effect.... The kineticist can suppress the visual effects of elemental overflow by concentrating for 1 full round, but doing so suppresses all of this ability’s other benefits, as well. The next time the kineticist uses any wild talent, the visual effects and benefits return instantly."

How does this interact with telekinetic invisibility? Say that a kineticist has suppressed the manifestations of elemental overflow and goes invisible. If the character uses telekinetic healing while invisible and accepts burn, does the resulting elemental overflow effectively cancel the invisibility, or does it just decrease the effectiveness of the invisibility by creating some visual manifestations? Also, since the benefits return "instantly," does that mean those benefits (bonuses to attack, damage, and points of healing) apply to the healing performed while invisible, or an attack made while invisible that involves the acceptance of burn? Or do the benefits only apply to subsequent actions?

DitheringFool wrote:
Woo-hoo!!! Aboleths for the win. I can't get enough of them. Darkness without Form is still one of my favorite supplements.

What is Darkness Without Form? Google is coming up empty.

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That interpretation makes sense, but the module says that the vampire they meet with The Chamberlain has a dimension door wand she will use to escape, and there's no mention of her ending up in the cage. The module says the trap covers, "All long-range teleportation (including
shadow walk, teleport, greater teleport, teleportation circle,
and transport via plants spells)," so I think the author did not intend to include dimension door. But that leaves plane shift and summoning unclear. I guess I'm inclined to say plane shift triggers the trap (given that it is in the teleportation subschool), but summoning somehow does not -- I guess because the summoning subschool's conjuration mechanism is different than teleportation.

In my game a barbed devil summoned by the guardian barbed devil tried to teleport and ended up in the banshee's cage. THAT must resulted in an interesting negotiation! Any thoughts on how that would have played out would be welcome. The summoned devil did not really have any way "to show proper dedication to Urgathoa or produce evidence of the cult’s good graces." I rolled some diplomacy and the devil rolled poorly, so the PCs did hear a banshee wail in the distance, but I haven't figured out where things went after that. The devil would be long gone in any event. The PCs may come across the banshee tonight as they seek somewhere to rest.

Thanks! I found the reference to them being able to hide among the ruins along the walls, so that seems feasible, especially if they use rope trick.

I guess the teleport trap effect has no impact on moving into an interdimensional space like a rope trick cubbyhole. But what about interplanar travel? Could the party plane shift to somewhere friendly? Planar Shift is in the teleportation school, but so is dimension door, which is not affected by the trap. Does the teleport trap affect summoning bringing creatures from another plane? Or does it only affect spells with "teleport" in the name? I'm finding the teleport trap mechanic a little unclear...

Hey all. The PCs in my campaign are almost done with the first floor of Renchurch, and their resources are running low (and they have no idea just how much waits for them below!). I suspect they may be talking soon about resting. Where did your PCs rest when going through Renchurch? It seems like there is no way to get a good 8 hours rest INSIDE the monastery. I seem to recall reading something in the module on the topic, but I can't find it. What did your PCs do and what did you throw at them?

Also, given the magic circle of good effect in the monastery, does that mean it is impossible to summon good creatures at all, or only that they can't touch the PC's foes in the monastery? If the latter, how is that any different than just having the monastery's inhabitants benefit from a PvG effect?


And spell-like abilities don't have a verbal component. Like Melkiador, I don't see why moving arms breaks stealth.

Diego Rossi wrote:
Base Dc of noticing you 0, +10 for the TK invisibility effect, total DC 10. Plus distance and other effect hiding you.

I definitely disagree with the notion that one cannot use stealth while using telekinetic invisibility. They have already made it a lot weaker than regular invisibility. To say you can't use stealth would just nerf it. Unless you're suggesting that one cannot use stealth just during the one round you are initiating the effect, but can use it the 6 minutes thereafter. I don't necessarily agree with that either, but it is less problematic.

Oh, gosh! I had forgotten that. Thanks so much! We were giving him a hard time about summoning a devil and he said that most of the good summoning at his level were evil creatures. Not sure if that is right.

The ability description says: "You weave strands of aether, bending light and dampening sound; This works as invisibility except that the aetheric bending is easier to notice than normal invisibility, so your bonus on Stealth checks is halved (+10 while moving and +20 while perfectly still)." I do think aether is generally invisible and if it weren't then I don't think it would be possible to use it to bend light and and make a character invisible.

I do generally agree with PossibleCabbage about manifestations and won't use the interpretation of the FAQ that some have articulated in the game I run -- the FAQ says nothing about invisibility so I stand by my interpretation of how the spell works. But of course most casting has an audible component that might give a caster away. But spell-like abilities such as the kineticist's do not have verbal components...

It does say "the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details." So that seems to suggest it is up to the PC, subject to the GM's veto if the PC is being unreasonable. I don't know what being "up to your group" means, but I doubt the other PCs would object to a PC defining his/her manifestations.

But, in any event, I prefer an interpretation that invisibility, by necessary implication, suppresses the manifestations of non-offensive spells. Nothing in the FAQ states to the contrary.

Ravingdork quoted it above. I'd be interested in your take:

Ravingdork wrote:
Official FAQ wrote:

What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?

Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.

But given the FAQ makes no reference to invisibility, I think it is a little much to take it as announcing a major change in that respect. But I do understand your interpretation of it. Also, as the FAQ allows the spellcaster to invent their own manifestations, the caster could invent manifestations that do not involve light but would otherwise be noticeable if the caster were not invisible. For example, the kineticist's body could vibrate, and/or the body of the recipient of a spell-like touch effect from a kineticist could vibrate. To take another example, a caster's hands could change color; runes that don't exactly emit light could appear on a caster's palm; etc.

But better to avoid such creative evasion and just rule that manifestations don't appear when casting non-offensive spells while invisible. That interpretation even makes more sensible the notion that offensive spells break invisibility -- such spells DO have visual manifestations, which break the invisibility effect. In that light, the notion that non-offensive spells do not have visual manifestations while a caster is invisible is basically implied by the spell.

Telekinetic blast states: "You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast’s damage. Since the object is enfolded in strands of aether, even if you use this power on a magic weapon or other unusual object, the attack doesn’t use any of the magic weapon’s bonuses or effects; it simply deals your blast damage."

As I understand it, the blast does the same damage regardless of the size of the object. So how large must the object be? Can it be a sling bullet? I ask because the aether kineticist does not want to run out of ammunition.

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