3 - Tomorrow Must Burn (GM Reference)


Age of Ashes

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Sporkedup wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
Does one-Eye Amnin's Pummeling Flurry take a multiple attack penalty on the kick? The ability doesn't specify that it does.
I'd say yeah it does. The game is always very clear when standard MAP rules do not apply.

They're also clear about when abilities like that have an MAP.


Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

In my game my PCs have cleared Cypress Point and are resting prior to the trip to Kintargo. They have talked about owning the genie's smile and maybe sell it, but I have no idea about how many gold pieces a ship of that size is worth.

Assuming the PCs want to sell the ship, and that they find a buyer, how much money should they get? I'm looking for an amount of money that doesn't alter too much the supposed wealth the characters should have at the levels indicated in the adventure. Did anyone came up with a specific value?

Thanks!

My guys are in the process of clearing out Cypress Point and almost died at the boathouse because they didn't heal up the whole way from the first combat and the Krooths almost destroyed them. That tooth ability is nasty.

But they (or at least one of them) mentioned taking the boat. What does keep them from taking the boat when they clear out the Scarlet Triad? They were also asking about disabling the boat so it couldn't be used by the Triad to get away but that's not covered in the book or I'd let them. They're worried the boat will leave with the prisoners if they go to the smokehouse, or that the prisoners at the smokehouse will be murdered so they're not going to rest but they keep spending resources so I have a feeling the next few encounters (especially Bullbutcher) will turn out horribly for them, even if they are already almost to level 10. Also the rogue and Giant Instinct barbarian are fatigued thanks to the critical decks, so that kinda takes some of their combat potential out.

The bard is caring the non-cursed dreamstone. Maybe after this they'll give it to the person that benefits the most from getting a full night's rest in 2 hours.


Just as a note for those who ask how to price the ship, a sailboat is 2000gp a galley is 3000 gp, they can sell for half of that, it's appropriate treasure for a party that size.

However, to make it more fun, i'd actualyl mark it as a ''red good'' because of the slave implications and rule it as a special one time level 12 (for after the chapter 3 AP) Downtime activity that takes 2 weeks doable with either an appropriate lore skill or diplomacy if you have the bargain hunter feat.

You could also make it society exceptionally.

My 2 cents.


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In the interest of pacing, I’ve decided to cut out the visit to Lady Docur’s , and just have a few Scarlet Triad agents show up as the party is wrapping things up at the coffee house, see the party, and run. This will lead to a rooftop chase scene (kind of a Crimson Throne callback.) And to increase the players’ suffering, every obstacle will be named with a horrible pun that I get to flash up on roll20. So far, they’ll be dealing with obstacles such as A Bad Case of The Shingles, DC 21 Jump Street, Clothesline is it Anyway?, Church and Destroy and a swarm flying out of a crumbling chimney known as Bat on a Hot Tin Roof. I’ll see myself out now.

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BeardedTree wrote:


But they (or at least one of them) mentioned taking the boat. What does keep them from taking the boat when they clear out the Scarlet Triad? They were also asking about disabling the boat so it couldn't be used by the Triad to get away but that's not covered in the book or I'd let them.

In my game the monk (who has some rogue-like skills) received the benefit of invisibility and sabotaged the rudder and came back with a lot of scouting information for the party. All within the short time limit of the spell's duration.

I have some suggestions to tone down the monetary reward of stealing a ship.

As mentioned previously in this thread, a slave-trading ship should be refitted before being sold. Skulls and Shackles actually had interesting mechanics about "squibbing" a ship (i.e. changing some details about it so that no one notices it's a stolen-and-reconverted ship). You could ask for an upfront downtime activity using some appropriate skills (applicable lore skills or expert crafting) and have them reconvert the ship while using some downtime. That activity would also require some timber, nails, new sails, that sort of thing. So if the ship had a value of 3000gp you could ask for 500gp upfront to do this (plus the week or so of work).

When they get to Ravounel, have them sell the ship at half price (1500) which means an effective gain of 1000gp.

Sir NotAppearingInThisFilm wrote:
A Bad Case of The Shingles, DC 21 Jump Street, Clothesline is it Anyway?, Church and Destroy and a swarm flying out of a crumbling chimney known as Bat on a Hot Tin Roof. I’ll see myself out now.

Wow! Just plain awesome. Was not expecting this. Thanks!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My group is running pretty low on spell slots and haven't attacked the tower yet. I wonder if they will rest first. Kind of a moral conundrum. The Ice Devil fight took a lot out of them.


Captain Morgan wrote:
My group is running pretty low on spell slots and haven't attacked the tower yet. I wonder if they will rest first. Kind of a moral conundrum. The Ice Devil fight took a lot out of them.

I have a feeling the ice devil will be rough on my guys too. How did you break your guys of the "we're out of combat so let's just use spells to heal up" habit. I told my group that they might now have the luxury of resting between fights and the druid still pops off a heal spell after combat. I'm also not sure she's preparing spells correctly. I'm surprised that I didn't kill anyone in the Bullbutcher fight since I had two slaver demons (6 people) but I had one of them chase the ranger around the ship for a few rounds so that's probably why.


Has anyone added Sacristan velstracs to any encounters? They're a level 10 creature and kind of fit the aesthetic of the adventure path.


Captain Morgan wrote:
My group is running pretty low on spell slots and haven't attacked the tower yet. I wonder if they will rest first. Kind of a moral conundrum. The Ice Devil fight took a lot out of them.

We just reached that point over the weekend. From the moment of completing Sunset Exports it's kind of one long extended encounter, with maybe some 10-minute rests. When the party discovered the tower, I tried to stress to them that they knew where their enemies were hiding - they could easily leave someone casing the tower while they equipped/rested for a night. Ironically, it was the party wizard, completely out of spells following the ice devil AND the raksashas, who argued that taking on a tower full of scarlet triads with only his cantrips was completely doable. Of course, that player may or may not have been doing some drinking :). Luckily, the rest of the party opted for the rest.


So I am about to go into the Laslunn fight in my next game. The invisible barbarian tried sneaking in to the room, and made enough noise that, although still invisible, Laslunn and the Interlocutor are using seek actions, so we ended with an initiative roll.

My question is about the remaining NPCs. My players have not confronted the shadow giant or the snipers yet, though they have at least seen the shadow giant. How do you think the giant and snipers would react to the quarry flooding?

Also, I'm a bit worried about how it will go down if the party try to free the slaves and end up split dealing with Laslunn, the Interlocuter, the Shadow Giant and the Snipers at the same time. I anticipate making a post in the obituaries thread next week...

Liberty's Edge

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Well, how they react should probably depend on whether they know that the sluice being used that way is Laslunn's getaway plan. If they know, I'd expect the giant to evacuate post haste, while the snipers probably relocate to cover whatever they think her way out is, since they'll assume she's retreating (which might even be true).

That might honestly be the best way to run it, since it leaves the prisoners more or less unguarded for the PCs to rescue. You can give them the opportunity to deal with the giant and the snipers a bit later and in a different encounter.

If they don't know, they probably just stay at their posts. This would mean that the Giant fights, at least if attacked, but as discussed in Area J2 the snipers wait to see how the fight with the giant plays out before they start shooting.

However, if they don't know what's going on, I'm not sure if they'd even attack the PCs. A PC approaching with confidence and telling the giant 'Something's gone wrong! We need to get the prisoners out or we'll lose all our labor!' might easily result in the giant actually aiding the PCs in prisoner rescue with a successful Deception check (DC 30 due to the giant's Perception). And even on a failure, I'd expect the giant to be unsure what to do rather than attack the person trying to save the work force (I'd reserve that for a critical failure).

The second version is more realistic, probably, and certainly more interesting, and definitely rewards the PCs being clever and rolling well, but has a much greater downside and odds of, as you say, killing PCs. So like I said I'd probably go with the first option.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Any thoughts on what y'all would do if your players defeated the lower and middle floor of Tanessen Tower and then decided to leave for an eight hour rest?


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GimmeYourShoes wrote:
Any thoughts on what y'all would do if your players defeated the lower and middle floor of Tanessen Tower and then decided to leave for an eight hour rest?

I'm not in the habit of punishing my PCs over rest and resource concerns, but launching a strike at the tower and then withdrawing midway seems like exactly the kind of development that would force a negative story reaction, given the stakes and what's in the tower. This is probably what I would do:

Knowing that their location has been compromised, Barushak decides to cut his losses and evacuate. All currently shackled prisoners are executed and left to rot, unable to safely transport them in a timely manner in broad daylight. All surviving Triad relocate to the quarry to reinforce and investigate who has launched a counteroffensive, taking every resource they can carry. Barushak leaves the Evangelists (and a few extra) behind to ambush anybody that comes up to the top floor, and can be encountered again later with Laslunn. Maybe he leaves a taunting letter behind telling the party that the blood spilled here is on their hands, and many more lives are imperiled if they or the Tillers continue their pursuits.

Laria Longroad manages her escape however, and can be found later at the coffee house after notifying the Bellflower Network of her freedom, so she's still available to point the party towards the quarry. I imagine Nolly Peltry and Mialari Docur would cool a bit on the party after hearing of their tactical withdrawal for nappy time.

Liberty's Edge

Whether they'd kill the prisoners, I think, depends on the time of day. Barushak can casually summon an Augur Velstrac and get a couple of augury uses out of that (in fact, he can do so twice).

That, with the right questions, can let him know how safe moving the prisoners is, and if the PCs 'eight hour rest' includes it being dark, he'd move the prisoners rather than kill them. They're an investment, after all. They'd presumably be taken to the quarry and stored with the other prisoners there.

I think I'd even be tempted to fudge the timeline a little to make this be the case were it me, or give the Scarlet Triad some other opportunity to transport them out, since having the prisoners executed is pretty harsh.

I do agree with the rest, though I'm not sure if he'd actually ;eave his summoned creatures, each of those represents days of work. I'd probably say he takes those with him. I do think Laria Longroad getting free to give the PCs the necessary info is probably correct, though.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

thanks for the input guys, I think I'm gonna go with something more towards xcmt's suggestion


So I'm still preparing for the fight with One-Eye Amnin and I have to ask. Shouldn't he have Improved Knockdown? That would make his Pummeling Flurry more dangerous and would make more sense for those two attacks to be combined into one action like that.

Liberty's Edge

BeardedTree wrote:
So I'm still preparing for the fight with One-Eye Amnin and I have to ask. Shouldn't he have Improved Knockdown? That would make his Pummeling Flurry more dangerous and would make more sense for those two attacks to be combined into one action like that.

Generally, NPCs shouldn't have additional stuff like that by default. their basic stats are quite dangerous enough. I've heard nothing indicating that Amnin is an exception to that.

That said, if you want to make the fight harder, this seems a reasonably thematic way to do it.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
So I'm still preparing for the fight with One-Eye Amnin and I have to ask. Shouldn't he have Improved Knockdown? That would make his Pummeling Flurry more dangerous and would make more sense for those two attacks to be combined into one action like that.

Generally, NPCs shouldn't have additional stuff like that by default. their basic stats are quite dangerous enough. I've heard nothing indicating that Amnin is an exception to that.

That said, if you want to make the fight harder, this seems a reasonably thematic way to do it.

I'm going to have to make the fight harder since there will be 6 PCs, but instead of having two Amnins I'll just bring in another slaver demon. They just hit level 10 and rested and will be coming into this fight fresh will all of their resources (and with his "he goes after the biggest foe" he'll be facing off against a Dwarven giant Instinct barbarian and probably getting sneak attacked by the rogue)


BeardedTree wrote:
So I'm still preparing for the fight with One-Eye Amnin and I have to ask. Shouldn't he have Improved Knockdown? That would make his Pummeling Flurry more dangerous and would make more sense for those two attacks to be combined into one action like that.

I added improved knockdown to his greatclub attack, and it worked great, upping his offense and surprising the characters.


GimmeYourShoes wrote:
Any thoughts on what y'all would do if your players defeated the lower and middle floor of Tanessen Tower and then decided to leave for an eight hour rest?

I'm on the same boat as you. My party reached Tanessen tower after the fight with the gelugon (following the trail, their rolls were high enough) and bypassed the sixth floor (the enemies didn't detect them). They were discovered by golems on the seventh floor, and right now they hare dealing with the 3 poisoners and one golem (the other was defeated). Since they have made a a lot of noise, and one of the poisoners called for help, the whole tower is on alert.

I think Deadmanwalking's is the way I'll approach the situation if the party defeats the sixth and seventh floor, and then run away to rest. The fight in Sunset Imports and Kite Hill took quite a lot of resources from them so I see it as the most probable situation, although it may be that my players will try to finish the tower and deal with Barushak because they expect consecuences for their actions.

Liberty's Edge

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For the record, I'd 100% have their actions have consequences...specifically, I'd add Barushak and anyone he escapes with directly to existing fights at the quarry. He'd probably wind up personally backing up either Laslunn or Vaklish.

That makes the whole quarry much tougher to deal with. I'm just reluctant to kill large numbers of prisoners over them retreating in order to survive if there's any logical reason for that not to happen.


Yeah, my idea is to reinforce the quarry with Barushak & co.

Regarding the slaves, as you said, I think he values them for the money. If the slavers can exit Kintargo in the night to go to the quarry, Barushak would surely keep the slaves.

As xcmt suggested, Laria will escape. Where she ends and how the characters will meet her, that depends on how the game flows.

Killing the prisoners is an extreme measure that Barushak may use depending on how the characters try to deal with the tower. I think that's what the adventure comments when it says that he will strike some kind of deal (this was cut in the final draft, it seems).

The other thing to keep in mind is what happens in the other two locations: Lady Docur's and Long roads Coffeehouse. I think if my players have too much trouble, maybe Mialari will end up in Tanessen Tower to help them fight the Triad, after interrogating or releasing the slavers by herself. As for the rakshasas and barzillai spectres in the Coffeehouse, after one or two hours, the rakshasas will probably relocate to the quarry, reinforcing it. The spectres I don't know... maybe I'll keep them were they are, and the characters will face them as stated in the module; or maybe the city guards will find out about the situation (at some point someone has to notice the strange things happening inside the coffeehouse) and deal with it, of course with some deaths. The PCs will find about this when they visit the location and talk to a pair of guards that keep the place closed until a group of clerics from the city guard can "declare it clean" from the supernatural apparitions.

This is something I'll have to think about for my next session.

Scarab Sages

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Sir NotAppearingInThisFilm wrote:
I'm kind of confused about how to run the encounter with Barushak Il-Varashma, and summoning in general.

It doesn't help that he's listed as having Summon Fiend prepared at 2nd level and 4th level when it's a 5th level spell. I don't think it's even possible to de-heighten a spell that way.


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TomParker wrote:
Sir NotAppearingInThisFilm wrote:
I'm kind of confused about how to run the encounter with Barushak Il-Varashma, and summoning in general.
It doesn't help that he's listed as having Summon Fiend prepared at 2nd level and 4th level when it's a 5th level spell. I don't think it's even possible to de-heighten a spell that way.

The rules for Pathfinder 2e in general were in flux while Age of Ashes was being written, and a couple of NPCs tell us that how summoning spells worked were one of the things undergoing changes. For instance, in Book 2 Belmazog has a spell called "Summon Monster". That spell doesn't exist.

Likewise, Barushak has Summon Fiend prepared at levels you can't prepare Summon Fiend at, presumably because at some point Summon Fiend was a lower level spell you could heighten, like Summon Animal or Summon Elemental. Fortunately, the book tells us what Barushak likes to summon with those spells: an Evangelist Velstrac at 6th level, a Bearded Devil at 5th level, a hell hound at 4th level, and an Auger Velstrac at 3rd or 2nd level.

As a side note, you are correct that you are not allowed to de-heighten a spell.


ToiletSloth wrote:
TomParker wrote:
Sir NotAppearingInThisFilm wrote:
I'm kind of confused about how to run the encounter with Barushak Il-Varashma, and summoning in general.
It doesn't help that he's listed as having Summon Fiend prepared at 2nd level and 4th level when it's a 5th level spell. I don't think it's even possible to de-heighten a spell that way.

The rules for Pathfinder 2e in general were in flux while Age of Ashes was being written, and a couple of NPCs tell us that how summoning spells worked were one of the things undergoing changes. For instance, in Book 2 Belmazog has a spell called "Summon Monster". That spell doesn't exist.

Likewise, Barushak has Summon Fiend prepared at levels you can't prepare Summon Fiend at, presumably because at some point Summon Fiend was a lower level spell you could heighten, like Summon Animal or Summon Elemental. Fortunately, the book tells us what Barushak likes to summon with those spells: an Evangelist Velstrac at 6th level, a Bearded Devil at 5th level, a hell hound at 4th level, and an Auger Velstrac at 3rd or 2nd level.

As a side note, you are correct that you are not allowed to de-heighten a spell.

Thank you for this explanation, I too didn't understand how to run barushak. I thought maybe he had some power specific to a conjurer specialization (if there is such a thing).

I think I will just substitute the summoning spells that actually exist for each level


Since it's still spooky season I thought I'd replace the moderate encounter right before One-Eye Amnin with two Sacristan because why not. It changes things up and might show that the Scarlet Triad has some decent resources.

But then I realized... they (and the other velstracs like the evangelist) have Regeneration. My group doesn't have a champion and I don't think they have ANY silver weapons. They might not be able to kill them. But this would also be a good experience to let them know to carry different weapon types. I know they have a bunch of shoddy silver weapons from the citadel but I don't think anyone has any on hand.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Alright guys, my group got to the quarry saw the giant in the center and started taking the tunnels. IDK if it was hubris or a deathwish but they fought and had a fairly easy time with the scarlett triad bunker, the stone giant's bunker and the bears. After the bears they did a ten-minute rest to heal and were talking about taking an hour when I introduced Jaggaki from the next chamber. First chain lightning downs 2 players and then they just refused to flee; long story short TPK.

I'm fishing for ideas to get a new party in the quarry that aren't just a "search party" although that might be the simplest. Also open to ways to connect this new party to Breachhill.


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Personally, since the conclusion of this area is the mid point of the campaign I'd probably just start a new campaign if my party TPKed. But that's not what you asked, so how about the new party is from the Silver Ravens, come to free the slaves in the quarry? Afterwards they could also be tasked with investigating Dreamgate, and this would naturally lead them to Citadel Altaerein. Perhaps the Silver Ravens are concerned the aiudara could be used to quickly and discreetly transport slaves all over Golarion and thus the party is tasked with finding out where they go and shutting them down. Alternatively they could use the aiudara to help slaves escape oppressive regions, with the citadel as their home base.


We have played two more sessions, and as I predicted, the PCs defeated the sixth and seventh floors, and then retreated because they were depleted of resources.

Barushak and his minions fled, and now I'm thinking about how to position this new forces in the quarry.

- The two scarlet triad thugs will be in the trail (area J1) watching over the tunnel. They know they have enemies, and Laslunn is smart. There is no way that they will leave this part undefended. This two guys will periodically switch positions with those in areas J3-J4, so there will be gaps in the defense that smart players can exploit.

- Barushak will be with Laslunn in J11. For ease of play on my side, I will change his summon spells with other spells. He can do some nasty things by throwing a wall of force and using collective tranposition (teleportation effects work through the wall) to bring the PCs he wants to the other side, so his allies can defeat them more comfortably.

I you were to change his summon spells, wich spells will you add? I'm looking for some suggestions.

At one point I thought about substituting the velstracs that accompany him for a stronger monster (a hellcat or a more powerful kyton like a sacristan), but right now I lean toward keeping the three evangelists and making them elite (7th lvl, so they shouldn't be a big problem for 11th level characters).

Again, any suggestions about this will be appreciated.

- I don't know what to do about the rakshasas that appear in the Longroads coffehouse. My party never got to the place to experience the encounter, only the aftermath. For my game I have established that Vaklish and his two rakshasa cronies went to the Terapasillion, and there did a ritual that allowed them to tap into the remnants of Barzillai by using his original mace as a focus. Maybe the two rakshasas went back to this place and won't appear at the quarry? If you had this same situation, will you use them in the quarry? where?

The mace will be in Vaklish posession, so if the PCs defeat him, they can undo the ritual at the Terapasillion to stop the remnants/hauntings from appearing ever again.

Also, I noticed that the module doesn't describe how high are the exterior walls of the quarry. Smart PCs may want to climb them to have a tactical advantage or to do some scouting. I'm thinking 50-60 ft. should be enough. What do you think?


Did any of your groups sneak past the encounter with Helgi Ironhair to get straight to One-Eye Amnin (this is the encounter i replaced with two Sacristan)? My group set the pirates on alert because the rogue (after almost two hours of conversation and me trying to get a definitive answer on what they were going to do) decided to disguise himself and go right up to the smokehouse to scope the place out, and then failed his disguise check against One-Eye Amnin and then proceeded to try and tell him that he was mistaken and just didn't remember him being a part of the crew.

They had a good plan, the party was coming from the northwest (not trying to sneak) and had cast Fly on the barbarian and rogue so they could go directly to One-Eye Amnin and take him out (who by their logic was no longer the captain, he just didn't realize it yet) and the slaver demon accompanying him on the roof. That's when One-Eye Amnin greeted them and told his crew to "let our friends have some fun".

Bleed damage is nasty. The ranger bled for maybe 6 rounds, I managed to drop the rogue and almost dropped the barbarian. Their Shadow Screams made the bard use up two of his 5th level slots on Dispel Magic. The druid spent a few Heal spells. They weren't really prepared for their regeneration, but the Alchemist wound up having a silver dagger so that made things easier. I figured they'd just try to tie them up as soon as they dropped but no one thought of that either.


After reviewing the quarry, I wanted to improve the areas where the giants live, and got some ideas after reading the Minderhal article in the Giantslayer AP.

What I'll probably do is modify the room where Jaggaki is, so it has runes hidden in the walls that you can use to activate the portal to Stonepeak (Minderhal's realm). Jaggaki has procured himself some sacred stones (required for the ritual), but he seems incapable of using them. the critical part is the order of activation of the runes hidden in the walls, and that you need to sing a paean to Minderhal while doing it to complete the ritual.

So depending on how the PCs play this part, and if they roll well enought to investigate the cave and deduce its purpose and what's needed, they may be able to open the portal(aiding Jaggaki, or after defeating him). That will summon Great Elder Iuu (Minderhal's Herald), accompanied by some fiendish stone giants.

My group ALWAYS try to socialize with NPCs (and they passed the checks to recognize the symbols that Canton Jhaltero saw in the quarry before he closed it, so they know more or less the ), so I suspect this will be a social encounter that the PCs can use to get an edge against the Triad.

If the conversation with Iuu goes well, he may gift them a lesser version of Anfaru to use temporarily, until they "clean" the quarry and leave the chambers of Minderhal to new generations of stone giants.

If things don't go well, Iuu will rebuke them and tell them not to activate the portal again or suffer a severe punishment.

If thing go SUPER WELL, maybe Iuu will offer to teach the group about creating some magic items in their next downtime. I have a halfing druid with an affinity for stone and the Magical Crafting feat, so I think this will be a cool opportunity for him to get some interesting formulas.

If Jaggaki is still alive and the portal opens... well, that can lead to an interesting situation since the lich is not a follower of Minderhal and only want to summon devils from Stonepeak to fullfill his own agenda. If the players know this, maybe they will use it to gain Iuu's trust in the conversation.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My party decided to scout the tower using their remaining spell slots, then rest for the night and attack fresh in the morning. It worked well and they are doing the same thing for the quarry-- the draconic sorcerer had already learned Shadow Walk from the Nidalese. An investigator with flight and invisibility makes for an excellent scout. He was able to peep in through all the windows and identify the creatures inside. ID'ing the golems was especially clutch. The party disguised themselves and as Triad and then used a Veil spell on the poisoners to make them look NOT Triad, and the golems murdered the poisoners with the party barely having to lift a finger. Veil not being limited to WILLING creatures is a nice detail I'd overlooked.

Now at the quarry they have peeped into all the entry points and identified all the creatures visible from outside, and will be going in fully rested tomorrow. They are contemplating using teleport to pop in behind the snipers. (My sorc missed the Uncommon tag, but given there's a scroll of it they can get in the quarry it hardly seemed fussing about.)

The Investigator also used Gnome obsession to get Scarlet Triad Lore, which I've been generally using to apply a -5 adjustment to the ID DCs. It usually just offsets the "rare" tag such creatures seem to have. But sharing their abilities is always a little weird. It is jsut harder to justify knowing their shtick than a monster.

BeardedTree wrote:


I have a feeling the ice devil will be rough on my guys too. How did you break your guys of the "we're out of combat so let's just use spells to heal up" habit. I told my group that they might now have the luxury of resting between fights and the druid still pops off a heal spell after combat.

They never really had this habit to be honest. I usually need to really pressure them to NOT stop and Treat Wounds.

Edit: Also... Man, I do not get why those snipers don't assist the shadow giant, besides it leading to an extreme encounter. Hopefully my players are smart enough to divide and conquer so I don't have to play the NPCs dumb.


I've read in the description of krooths that their guts are of interest to alchemists and that is possible to sell them to that kind of customer. Sinche there is an alchemist in my party, he could us them himself, but to do what? I was thinking something in the line "is worth 200 gp as a component to craft poisons or acid formulae". What do you think?


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I've never been a fan of allowing players to carve up monster parts as free treasure, because in my experience when you allow it once they come to expect free money from every single thing they kill, and it throws off my already meticulously plotted award curve. What I do enjoy is letting them use recovered monster parts as flavoring for stuff they're already planning to craft, which lets them be more descriptive about their appearance and equipment (and pins that item to a particular campaign memory), which can lead to a better roleplay atmosphere. This is maybe less useful for potions and poisons though.

If I felt compelled to enrich my alchemist's life with this kind of material windfall I'd probably do something like "the membranes and gut flora of this creature will allow you to add a +3 circumstance bonus to any alchemical crafting check made in the next two weeks (after which your ability to preserve the flesh begins to fail) or add +3 task levels to alchemical-crafting-related Earn Income checks." It would still provide a small benefit, but my player would need to work for it.


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How did folks handle the alarm in the quarry? Can someone shouting for help in one chamber alert the creatures in the next? That seems like a fair assumption if they are directly adjacent to each other, but probably not if between different maps.

Can the shadow giant hear a commotion in a chamber which opens onto the quarry? Since it says a fight with him draws the attention of the stone giants on J5, if seems like the reverse would occur. And if he's alerted, that would quickly mean he could shout and alert everyone else.

Does Jaggaki or Vaklish respond to the alarm? I'd guess the former does as it is part of his agreement with Laslunn, and the latter doesn't because he is very lazy. But given Jaggaki and his two body guards are already a severe encounter, that seems really dangerous.

What I'm getting at it is it seems almost impossible to do this without quickly setting off the alarm, and that means the quarry starts working together towards their demise. (Except to come to the aid of the Shadow Giant, for some reason I don't understand beyond game balance.)

The best shot I can think of is popping into one of the chambers, murdering the inhabitants without letting any escape, and then hoping the shadow giant comes to investigate the commotion by himself. If they can get him inside and hank him, maybe they can work their way through the chambers one by one?


Captain Morgan wrote:

How did folks handle the alarm in the quarry? Can someone shouting for help in one chamber alert the creatures in the next? That seems like a fair assumption if they are directly adjacent to each other, but probably not if between different maps.

Can the shadow giant hear a commotion in a chamber which opens onto the quarry? Since it says a fight with him draws the attention of the stone giants on J5, if seems like the reverse would occur. And if he's alerted, that would quickly mean he could shout and alert everyone else.

Does Jaggaki or Vaklish respond to the alarm? I'd guess the former does as it is part of his agreement with Laslunn, and the latter doesn't because he is very lazy. But given Jaggaki and his two body guards are already a severe encounter, that seems really dangerous.

What I'm getting at it is it seems almost impossible to do this without quickly setting off the alarm, and that means the quarry starts working together towards their demise. (Except to come to the aid of the Shadow Giant, for some reason I don't understand beyond game balance.)

The best shot I can think of is popping into one of the chambers, murdering the inhabitants without letting any escape, and then hoping the shadow giant comes to investigate the commotion by himself. If they can get him inside and hank him, maybe they can work their way through the chambers one by one?

My group avoided the quarry entering through the side cave and taking out the guard forces first, then ran into Jaggaki when moving along the tunnels. That was one tough fight. Be careful running that. It is vicious.

Liberty's Edge

Captain Morgan wrote:
How did folks handle the alarm in the quarry? Can someone shouting for help in one chamber alert the creatures in the next? That seems like a fair assumption if they are directly adjacent to each other, but probably not if between different maps.

My preferred assumption is that, based on the iron cage in area J8, the alchemists there often have loudly screaming prisoners and other odd sounds coming from their lab, and thus that whole section of things is rather inured to such noises and unlikely to investigate unless the PCs get really blatant with it or some people escape to go warn them (or, contrariwise, that room is soundproofed in some fashion...same result either way).

And I don't think Jaggaki would emerge from his studies to help anyone. As clearly indicated in regards to any deals he makes with the PCs, he's got no compunctions about breaking his word. He probably doesn't want the Scarlet Triad to see him doing so, but I see no reason he'd go out of his way to help them, or even his own minions. Now, if the PCs walk in on him, well, that's another matter, and he can be seen to be useful, but if not why would he care?

The Shadow Giant, meanwhile, is presumably under orders to not leave his post so that a distraction doesn't lead to a lot of freed slaves (an otherwise pretty easy plan in lots of ways if freeing slaves is your primary goal...the threat I'd expect them to be prepared for). That's how I'd run that guy, anyway.

The only places that seem likely to receive aid from other locations are J3 and J4, which are close enough that if one is attacked the other might come to their aid, but I think the expectation is that the folks in J4 are sleeping, so I'd probably only have them come and help those in J3 if the combat took an unusually long time (they'd be up and ready for battle by the time the PCs hit them barring silence or something, but that'd take several turns).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My players wound up teleporting into JR to murder the sleeping naked guards (since most creatures can't sleep in armor) and took out the gamblers as well without anyone escaping. I figured that would make enough noise to draw attention from some combination of shadow and stone giants, but the party cheesed it out the exit before that happened. They did take a few moments to try and alter the crime scene to look like a fight had broken out over the poker game and the guards had murdered each other, which ultimately might not fool them for long. They recovered and then teleported into J12 And took out the snipers. That's where we ended, so I haven't had to decide on how the other forces will respond to either attack.

I had considered shifting the Shadow Giant further towards the entrance of the quarry since that would have been the obvious escape route for whoever murdered the guards. You're right that they wouldn't leave the slaves unguarded, though. Maybe he can be within sight of the pits but far enough away to where he can't hear the snipers scream? The quarry is really big and I am not clear on how all the tunnels carry acoustics.

No one but Laslunn is trained in Survival so it seems unlikely the Triad would send anyone away to try and track the killer(s) down, since she'd want to stay by her panic button. The poisoners are one of the only creatures that have Medicine, so they might actually be investigating the crime scene. Maybe while leaving the golem behind to guard the chambers, but the party already figured out that they could bypass those by wearing Scarlet Triad symbols.

They might wind up with a straight shot to Vaklish and then to Laslunn, which would be ideal. Although they may miss a fair chunk of treasure that I may need to compensate for, especially since they emptied their coffers getting a divine servitor of Milani (elite veteran reclaimer, basically) to join their efforts. Maybe they will mop up Jaggaki at a later date if they learn there is a lich.


I'm afraid I'm going to have a TPK on my hands soon. My group had a problem with the One-Eye Amnin fight, and all I did for that was to add a Slaver Demon. I almost killed everyone there.

Fast forward to the Sunset Imports. They managed to get Sedranni to be cordial with them (even though I was seriously concerned that the druid would just cast Ray of Frost on her because that's the kind of person she is, AND because they were convinced for a long time that Sedranni and the Silver Council were allied with the Scarlet Triad until they finally got the correct information about both of them) and when they found out about the hallway that lead to. The back they had the plan to use that. After a few critical failures in sneaking they started out the door while Lurb and Krawn had just started making their way to the door. If the Barbarian hadn't tanked the golem (even though he failed his initial save against slowed and a few against paralyzation) it would have gone even worse but I dropped the rogue twice and the ranger once, and the Barbarian fell a few times. I didn't even add anything for there being 6 of them. They've already used a LOT of resources to heal and even though they did a little shopping before they investigated the warehouse (mainly to buy healing supplies and some Silversheen and Holy water which I gotta say is impressive that they're finally making those kinds of preparations) they used said silversheen before they entered the warehouse and even though it didn't help them there if they take time to heal and with the time it will take them to get to Kite Hill it will have worn off by the time they could fight the Gelugon. Which I'm pretty sure will kill them. And that's not even with the other encounter at the coffee house.

But they do want to get an audience with the Silver Council to report the Scarlet Triad. How would I even do that? Do they meet with random people? They tried going to Halleka to have him get them an audience but with him being such a low ranking diplomat I don't even think he could.


BeardedTree wrote:
But they do want to get an audience with the Silver Council to report the Scarlet Triad. How would I even do that? Do they meet with random people? They tried going to Halleka to have him get them an audience but with him being such a low ranking diplomat I don't even...

Ravounel is a relatively new nation, so it probably wouldn't have an extensive buerocracy. And given how much they hate slavers in Kintargo, walking into an office to say "hey I'd like to report some slaver activity" could get the attention of some higher ups. This could be a good opportunity to communicate information about Ravounel's recent history, particularly about the revolution and Ravounel's secession from Cheliax.


ToiletSloth wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
But they do want to get an audience with the Silver Council to report the Scarlet Triad. How would I even do that? Do they meet with random people? They tried going to Halleka to have him get them an audience but with him being such a low ranking diplomat I don't even...
Ravounel is a relatively new nation, so it probably wouldn't have an extensive buerocracy. And given how much they hate slavers in Kintargo, walking into an office to say "hey I'd like to report some slaver activity" could get the attention of some higher ups. This could be a good opportunity to communicate information about Ravounel's recent history, particularly about the revolution and Ravounel's secession from Cheliax.

That's actually a good point, and as soon as Sedranni mentioned the slave trade was illegal they changed their minds about the Silver Council being involved with the Scarlet Triad. But I don't know what the authorities could or would give them.

Liberty's Edge

BeardedTree wrote:
That's actually a good point, and as soon as Sedranni mentioned the slave trade was illegal they changed their minds about the Silver Council being involved with the Scarlet Triad. But I don't know what the authorities could or would give them.

Well, per the AP's article on Kintargo, the high level people are busy doing something in the Darklands, so I'd assume it'd be limited to logistical support. I'd expect they can heal the party at some sort of central location, or provide some consumables, but probably not much else.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
That's actually a good point, and as soon as Sedranni mentioned the slave trade was illegal they changed their minds about the Silver Council being involved with the Scarlet Triad. But I don't know what the authorities could or would give them.
Well, per the AP's article on Kintargo, the high level people are busy doing something in the Darklands, so I'd assume it'd be limited to logistical support. I'd expect they can heal the party at some sort of central location, or provide some consumables, but probably not much else.

They'd probably want the police to assist or take over the investigation. We broke just as they saved Hundy and one of them spoke to him but the druid said that she was going to start healing people. I was going to try to use Hundy as the driving force to get them to decide what to do (because he's frantic) but I don't know what they'll wind up doing. My main concern is the Gelugon wiping them since by the time they fight it their silversheen will run out and with its high AC, To Hit, and the fact that we use the critical hit and fumble deck things could go very very badly. With how they play (with almost no tactics whatsoever) I'm even worried about the coffeehouse because I'll have to add another remnant and rakshasa.

In case anyone is wondering my party makeup is:
Human Druid
Lizardfolk Ranger w/animal companion
Halfling Mastermind Rogue
Halfling Bard
Hobgoblin Alchemist
Dwarven Giant Totem Barbarian

Liberty's Edge

BeardedTree wrote:
They'd probably want the police to assist or take over the investigation.

I'm sure they'd love to, but this ignores the reality of level, a very real thing in-world. The PCs are a minimum of 10th level by this point. It's pretty clear that, without those currently in the Darklands, they lack a party capable of matching that and sending underleveled people is a suicide mission, so they have little choice but to let the PCs do it.

BeardedTree wrote:

We broke just as they saved Hundy and one of them spoke to him but the druid said that she was going to start healing people. I was going to try to use Hundy as the driving force to get them to decide what to do (because he's frantic) but I don't know what they'll wind up doing. My main concern is the Gelugon wiping them since by the time they fight it their silversheen will run out and with its high AC, To Hit, and the fact that we use the critical hit and fumble deck things could go very very badly. With how they play (with almost no tactics whatsoever) I'm even worried about the coffeehouse because I'll have to add another remnant and rakshasa.

In case anyone is wondering my party makeup is:
Human Druid
Lizardfolk Ranger w/animal companion
Halfling Mastermind Rogue
Halfling Bard
Hobgoblin Alchemist
Dwarven Giant Totem Barbarian

They can probably sleep between the Gelugon and later fights, if they like. It's delivering the warning that's the really urgent part. For the Gelugon, Nolly Peltry is there to help, and you could allow her to provide them with silversheen or other consumables if you wanted. Given her work with the Bellflower Network, silversheen is not an unreasonable item for her to possess...


Deadmanwalking wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
They'd probably want the police to assist or take over the investigation.

I'm sure they'd love to, but this ignores the reality of level, a very real thing in-world. The PCs are a minimum of 10th level by this point. It's pretty clear that, without those currently in the Darklands, they lack a party capable of matching that and sending underleveled people is a suicide mission, so they have little choice but to let the PCs do it.

BeardedTree wrote:

We broke just as they saved Hundy and one of them spoke to him but the druid said that she was going to start healing people. I was going to try to use Hundy as the driving force to get them to decide what to do (because he's frantic) but I don't know what they'll wind up doing. My main concern is the Gelugon wiping them since by the time they fight it their silversheen will run out and with its high AC, To Hit, and the fact that we use the critical hit and fumble deck things could go very very badly. With how they play (with almost no tactics whatsoever) I'm even worried about the coffeehouse because I'll have to add another remnant and rakshasa.

In case anyone is wondering my party makeup is:
Human Druid
Lizardfolk Ranger w/animal companion
Halfling Mastermind Rogue
Halfling Bard
Hobgoblin Alchemist
Dwarven Giant Totem Barbarian

They can probably sleep between the Gelugon and later fights, if they like. It's delivering the warning that's the really urgent part. For the Gelugon, Nolly Peltry is there to help, and you could allow her to provide them with silversheen or other consumables if you wanted. Given her work with the Bellflower Network, silversheen is not an unreasonable item for her to possess...

I'll have to figure out a way to let them know that yes while there are police they're not necessarily qualified to handle things that mid level PCs can.

They're going to need to rest. And since it's already after noon and the Triad attacks during the lunch rush I'll let them. They still have some doses of silversheen left but I was hoping they could get to the Gelugon before their current application fizzles out y'know? If anything they'd definitely be able to get some more from Lady Mialari, considering Silver's Refrain is available through her teachings. I just hope they don't botch the social interaction with her because my guys have a tendency to either not ask questions or not ask the right ones (like asking about things not covered in the AP).


My group has a problem. They managed to take out the Gelugon without TOO much trouble (less that I thought), although it did use up almost all of their remaining healing. But since they still felt like they were on a time limit they went direct to the coffeehouse and almost got wrecked by the Remnants, phantom bells, and Barzillai's Hounds. They finally managed to destroy the undead, the bard used performance to disable the bells... but no one is an expert in religion. No one can disable Barzillai's Hounds. At least it'll manifest elsewhere in the city after the next sunset but otherwise they can't disable it. I'm going to float the idea of rest and getting the authorities involved in that one. That'll mean the rakshasas and Elianda will be gone but they'd be able to procure the services of an adequately trained cleric.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
BeardedTree wrote:
My group has a problem. They managed to take out the Gelugon without TOO much trouble (less that I thought), although it did use up almost all of their remaining healing. But since they still felt like they were on a time limit they went direct to the coffeehouse and almost got wrecked by the Remnants, phantom bells, and Barzillai's Hounds. They finally managed to destroy the undead, the bard used performance to disable the bells... but no one is an expert in religion. No one can disable Barzillai's Hounds. At least it'll manifest elsewhere in the city after the next sunset but otherwise they can't disable it. I'm going to float the idea of rest and getting the authorities involved in that one. That'll mean the rakshasas and Elianda will be gone but they'd be able to procure the services of an adequately trained cleric.

My players had to rest in there too. Definitely was too hairy to push through like the book recommends.

I think sometimes as a GM it's really okay to relax the timing of the story and keep your players from wading into things they really don't want to. Depends a bit on how much your players love overcoming challenges, especially when the challenge is one of attrition.


Sporkedup wrote:
BeardedTree wrote:
My group has a problem. They managed to take out the Gelugon without TOO much trouble (less that I thought), although it did use up almost all of their remaining healing. But since they still felt like they were on a time limit they went direct to the coffeehouse and almost got wrecked by the Remnants, phantom bells, and Barzillai's Hounds. They finally managed to destroy the undead, the bard used performance to disable the bells... but no one is an expert in religion. No one can disable Barzillai's Hounds. At least it'll manifest elsewhere in the city after the next sunset but otherwise they can't disable it. I'm going to float the idea of rest and getting the authorities involved in that one. That'll mean the rakshasas and Elianda will be gone but they'd be able to procure the services of an adequately trained cleric.

My players had to rest in there too. Definitely was too hairy to push through like the book recommends.

I think sometimes as a GM it's really okay to relax the timing of the story and keep your players from wading into things they really don't want to. Depends a bit on how much your players love overcoming challenges, especially when the challenge is one of attrition.

I'm definitely going to imply that they can rest. They'll need it since they have a habit of using up their healing spells during combat. I tried last night but they were insistent that they were on a schedule. And that insistence almost got them killed.

The only problem for the coffeehouse would be whether or not I should keep the rakshasas there without moving things along or if when they come back in the morning the town guard would be there trying to get things sorted out themselves and the rakshasas "hiding" upstairs. That could work since they're still trying to pin this on the Nidalese...


My own 2 coppers on the resting situation for part 2:

My players were severely depleted after sunset imports+gelugon fight+coffee house+house for girls but they knew that if they were warned the people in the tower would move their 25 or so slaves.

So they set up a watch on the tower, the rogue of the party disguising everyone as beggars as they kept a close eye on the place and rested.

I think the point here is to create tension. Let them know that this is a risk that might ... Or not ... Pay off.


AlastarOG wrote:

My own 2 coppers on the resting situation for part 2:

My players were severely depleted after sunset imports+gelugon fight+coffee house+house for girls but they knew that if they were warned the people in the tower would move their 25 or so slaves.

So they set up a watch on the tower, the rogue of the party disguising everyone as beggars as they kept a close eye on the place and rested.

I think the point here is to create tension. Let them know that this is a risk that might ... Or not ... Pay off.

How did yours get through all of those without resting? My guys know that there was some urgency and that's why they plowed through, it's really the lack of expert training in Religion that really slowed them down. And the fact that other than the mastermind rogue, no one really takes the action to recall knowledge on anything (it took almost 4 or 5 rounds in the coffeehouse before the Alchemist decided to make the knowledge check). And I guess the fact that the bard, rogue, and Alchemist went into the coffeehouse first. Next session I'll straight up tell them that they can rest, get the authorities involved. They they actually tracked Barushak back to Tanessen Tower and wanted to go to the Silver Council and tell them about the Scarlet Triad being holed up in there but I wouldn't even know how to handle that. Maybe have the Council give them some sort of supplies, healing potions and the like. I don't really think they have the troops to handle that sort of thing. And since they just sort of booked it from Sunset Imports they never found the stash in the warehouse or talked to Sedranni to get that Moderate Maestro's Instrument. And I know the bard would love to have that...

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