New Weapon Ideas

[Edge93]

As the title implies, a place to post ideas for weapons in PF2. Just a reminder of the standards that are mostly kept to in the Playtest:

Simple 1H, d4 with 3 traits or d6 with 1.

Simple 2H, d8 with 1 trait (there's literally only one 2H simple weapon rn, but it's safe to assume d6 with 3 traits would fit).

Martial 1H, d4 with 5 traits, d6 with 3 traits, or d8 with 1 trait.

Martial 2H, d8 with 3 traits, d10 with 2 traits, or d12 with 1 trait.

Exotic, 1 additional trait over a Martial weapon of their Handedness.

Ranged weapons I am unsure of how they work.

(Two exceptions, some weapons have Thrown 10 without costing a trait and the Fatal trait seems to work differently and generally isn't worth it)

Before I get to my presented weapon, a couple personal tweaks I Houserule because they don't match these standards:

Scimitars get finesse. As a d6 Martial 1H they should have 3 traits, not 2. I picked finesse because Dervish Dancers.

Elven Curve Blade gets Sweep. As a d8 Martial 2H it should have 3 traits, not 2. I picked sweep because it seems fitting and it continues the theme of the ECB being basically a finesse Falchion or 2H Scimitar.

Also Staff is weird. It's a Simple 1H with only the two hand (d8) trait. By shown standards it should start as a d6 or have two additional traits. Maybe it could have Parry and something else? Parry and Trip maybe? That would be cool.

Lastly I make Shuriken d6. Normally compared to a hand crossbow it has less damage and 1/3 the range with the only consolation being no reload, yet the Shuriken is martial while the hand x-bow is simple. I felt that upping the Shuriken damage to match was quite fair.

Now all that done, on to the weapon I present.

Maulaxe (I believe this is traditionally Dwarven but I am unsure):
Exotic 1H weapon, d6, slashing damage, shove, sweep, versatile (Bludgeoning).

I had this idea because I was making an NPC ally for my own game and wanted them to have a weapon meant to fight undead, and thought that a slashing and Bludgeoning weapon would be perfect. I think the Clan Dagger does this but I wanted something heftier. But a simple d8 slashing weapon with versatile (Bludgeoning) was boring. I had the idea to add the typical trait for both axe and hammer, and wanted to make it throwable too, all told the trait cost pushed it to be a d6 1H exotic (though you could turn the throw range down to 10 and make it martial, or make it d4 martial and add deadly d6 or something but eh).

So feel free to post ideas of your own and I will do the same when I come up with more!

[Deadmanwalking]

I've mentioned before that I think there's room for a three-section staff for use by Dex Monks and anyone else who likes two-handed finesse weapons. It'd have stats like this:

Three-section staff:
Martial 2H weapon, d8, bludgeoning damage, monk, finesse, trip.

[Edge93]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

I've mentioned before that I think there's room for a three-section staff for use by Dex Monks and anyone else who likes two-handed finesse weapons. It'd have stats like this:

Three-section staff:
Martial 2H weapon, d8, bludgeoning damage, monk, finesse, trip.

Nice! I like it. Now we can build the protagonist of Suikoden V. XD

Though rightly that should be able to have one more trait (or be a d10 but we don't have precedent for a d10 finesse weapon so...). Monk doesn't actually count toward the limit, similarly to how the racial traits don't count.

[Deadmanwalking]

If Monk doesn't count I'd add Parry or Sweep (probably Parry) as an additional property. A finesse d10 weapon should definitely not be a thing that exists or a lot of basic balance stuff starts having issues.

Also, for the record, the three-section staff should be part of the Flails weapon group.

[HidaOWin]

War Razor
Uncommon simple melee weapon
1d4 S
Agile, finesse, deadly d8, dangerous

New quality: Dangerous: attacks with this weapon deliver a critical hit when it exceeds the targets AC by 9.

[Bardarok]

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

[Deadmanwalking]

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

This is a fair point.

Specifically, Fatal clearly counts as two properties per die size it increases (this is consistent across uses, and should likely be applied to the War Razor above).

Agile and Finesse are both only one property in cost, but are seemingly only available on 1d6 or less one-handed weapons, or 1d8 two-handed ones.

All those restrictions should likely remain the case (okay, I can see dropping Fatal's cost a tad...but it should definitely be higher than other Properties in some fashion).

[Edge93]

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

This is true. Agile is straight better than Sweep or Backswing (unless you've got some method of attacking twice with no MAP while still triggering the trait), which is probably why there isn't a weapon with Agile that's higher than d6.

Fatal seems to come with the drawback of either costing multiple traits or heavily tanking the weapon damage dice that it would normally have, resulting in being typically not worth it. Like the Greatpick, which is straight worse than a Greatsword except that it gets one extra die of damage on a crit. A d12 2 handed martial weapon with Deadly would be loads better than the best Fatal weapon in the game.

[oholoko]

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

Fatal is worse than deadly in most cases. Remember deadly adds 1 if expert, 2 if master and 3 if legendary.

While fatal changes the dies and then adds one.

[Deadmanwalking]

oholoko wrote:

Fatal is worse than deadly in most cases. Remember deadly adds 1 if expert, 2 if master and 3 if legendary.

While fatal changes the dies and then adds one.

Taken in isolation, this is still better for Fatal at every level.

With a normal Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 3d12+8 (27.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 2d10+1d8+8 (23.5)

With a +1 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 5d12+8 (40.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 4d10+1d8+8 (34.5).

With a Master +2 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 7d12+8 (53.5), while Deadly would be 6d10+2d8+8 (50).

With a Master +3 Heavy Pick and Str 20, a crit does 9d12+10 (68.5) while Deadly would be 8d10+2d8+10 (63).

With a Legendary +4 Heavy Pick and Str 22, a crit does 11d12+12 (83.5), while Deadly would be 10d10+3d8+12 (80.5).

With a Legendary +5 Heavy Pick and Str 24, a crit does 13d12+14 (98.5), while deadly would make it 12d10+3d8+14 (93.5).

The gap narrows slightly at Master/+2 and Legendary/+4, but those are actually bad choices that I only threw in to give Deadly every advantage. It's not a huge advantage on average, but it's a very consistent one.

Now, whether Fatal is better enough to be worth as much as it seems to be priced is another matter, but it's flatly superior to Deadly d8 (which seems the default version of Deadly).

[nick1wasd]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

oholoko wrote:

Fatal is worse than deadly in most cases. Remember deadly adds 1 if expert, 2 if master and 3 if legendary.

While fatal changes the dies and then adds one.

Taken in isolation, this is still better for Fatal at every level.

With a normal Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 3d12+8 (27.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 2d10+1d8+8 (23.5)

With a +1 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 5d12+8 (40.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 4d10+1d8+8 (34.5).

With a Master +2 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 7d12+8 (53.5), while Deadly would be 6d10+2d8+8 (50).

With a Master +3 Heavy Pick and Str 20, a crit does 9d12+10 (68.5) while Deadly would be 8d10+2d8+10 (63).

With a Legendary +4 Heavy Pick and Str 22, a crit does 11d12+12 (83.5), while Deadly would be 10d10+3d8+12 (80.5).

With a Legendary +5 Heavy Pick and Str 24, a crit does 13d12+14 (98.5), while deadly would make it 12d10+3d8+14 (93.5).

The gap narrows slightly at Master/+2 and Legendary/+4, but those are actually bad choices that I only threw in to give Deadly every advantage. It's not a huge advantage on average, but it's a very consistent one.

Now, whether Fatal is better enough to be worth as much as it seems to be priced is another matter, but it's flatly superior to Deadly d8 (which seems the default version of Deadly).

Yeah, Fatal seems to be an odd duck when it comes to pricing, and except for Bows (d10) the only Deadly die we've seen is d8, so it does seem like they're "pricing" it because it can get so far out of hand should you abuse it's presence.

[Bardarok]

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

A str Katana
1d8 S, Two-Handed 1d12, Deadly 1d8

A dex katana
1d6 S, Two-Handed 1d8, Finesse, Deadly 1d8

Or something similar.

[The Raven Black]

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

A str Katana
1d8 S, Two-Handed 1d12, Deadly 1d8

A dex katana
1d6 S, Two-Handed 1d8, Finesse, Deadly 1d8

Or something similar.

What about a feat that adds Finesse to a weapon but lowers its damage die ?

[Cellion]

Playing around with some weird ideas...

Orcish Goremulcher
Uncommon Exotic 1-handed Melee weapon
d6 P
Agile, orc, fatal d12
Weapon type - Spear

This slim spike has a dozen retractable bladed barbs along its length in the reverse direction. It takes its name from the ragged, gaping wounds that it sometimes leaves behind.

(This weapon pays for multiple copies (3 to be exact) of the fatal property to continue increasing the die size.)
-----

Wrist Launcher
Martial 1-handed Ranged Weapon
d6 P; 50ft range; Reload 1
Free-hand
Weapon type - Bow

This wrist mounted relative of the hand crossbow uses wound springs to hold a small bolt at extremely high tension. It can be fired by pulling a cord with the thumb, but must be reloaded and rewound with a second hand.

(In a pinch, this gives a single ranged attack without having to switch weapons. Built by taking the hand crossbow, making it martial, and adding one property.)
-----

And one really experimental one...
Piston Fist
Uncommon Exotic 1-handed Melee Weapon
d12 B; Reload 1
Backswing, Attached to gauntlet
Weapon type - Brawling

An Alkenstar-original, the Piston Fist augments a common gauntlet to provide a blast of momentum at the end of each punch. The piston fist's complex mechanisms must be reloaded after each use.

(A one handed d12 weapon that takes an action to reload to balance out the higher damage. This isn't balanced against examples in the weapon table, but the damage should actually be fine.)

[Bardarok]

The Raven Black wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

...

What about a feat that adds Finesse to a weapon but lowers its damage die ?

If this was PF1 I would be all for that. But PF2 is really trying to cut down on miscellaneous feats. I think in this case it is simpler to have two different weapons. Maybe call the str one an o-katana and the other a katana since they should probably have different names in the table.

[Mark Seifter]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

This is a fair point.

Specifically, Fatal clearly counts as two properties per die size it increases (this is consistent across uses, and should likely be applied to the War Razor above).

Agile and Finesse are both only one property in cost, but are seemingly only available on 1d6 or less one-handed weapons, or 1d8 two-handed ones.

All those restrictions should likely remain the case (okay, I can see dropping Fatal's cost a tad...but it should definitely be higher than other Properties in some fashion).

This is pretty close to the chart I made of the weapons, adding important distinctions to the already-insightful OP. However, not just fatal but a lot of properties cost different amounts from each other (to see which ones cost the least, all you have to do is take those top-dice weapons Edge93 identified and see which traits are able to appear on them). Incidentally, this variability accounts for most of the discrepancies Edge found in the playtest weapons; the ones with 1 die down and two traits typically needed to have more expensive traits that wouldn't appear on a top die weapon (or trait synergy; frex sweep is more valuable with forceful since the later attacks do more damage, and agile is extremely powerful with forceful and would usually cost too much to combine them), since if I recall, one of the only traits that full on costs a weapon die is reach. Obviously not all weapons can add up perfectly in any system, but there's no way that a system is going to absolutely perfectly score every possible trait either, so in the end, it should be close.

[Bardarok]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

This is a fair point.

Specifically, Fatal clearly counts as two properties per die size it increases (this is consistent across uses, and should likely be applied to the War Razor above).

Agile and Finesse are both only one property in cost, but are seemingly only available on 1d6 or less one-handed weapons, or 1d8 two-handed ones.

All those restrictions should likely remain the case (okay, I can see dropping Fatal's cost a tad...but it should definitely be higher than other Properties in some fashion).

This is pretty close to the chart I made of the weapons, adding important distinctions to the already-insightful OP. However, not just fatal but a lot of properties cost different amounts from each other (to see which ones cost the least, all you have to do is take those top-dice weapons Edge93 identified and see which traits are able to appear on them)

I mentioned it in a different thread but that sort of chart is exactly the type of thing I would like in a gamemastery/homebrewery guidebook.

[oholoko]

nick1wasd wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

oholoko wrote:

Fatal is worse than deadly in most cases. Remember deadly adds 1 if expert, 2 if master and 3 if legendary.

While fatal changes the dies and then adds one.

Taken in isolation, this is still better for Fatal at every level.

With a normal Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 3d12+8 (27.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 2d10+1d8+8 (23.5)

With a +1 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 5d12+8 (40.5). If it had Deadly d8 instead of Fatal it would do 4d10+1d8+8 (34.5).

With a Master +2 Heavy Pick and Str 18, a crit does 7d12+8 (53.5), while Deadly would be 6d10+2d8+8 (50).

With a Master +3 Heavy Pick and Str 20, a crit does 9d12+10 (68.5) while Deadly would be 8d10+2d8+10 (63).

With a Legendary +4 Heavy Pick and Str 22, a crit does 11d12+12 (83.5), while Deadly would be 10d10+3d8+12 (80.5).

With a Legendary +5 Heavy Pick and Str 24, a crit does 13d12+14 (98.5), while deadly would make it 12d10+3d8+14 (93.5).

The gap narrows slightly at Master/+2 and Legendary/+4, but those are actually bad choices that I only threw in to give Deadly every advantage. It's not a huge advantage on average, but it's a very consistent one.

Now, whether Fatal is better enough to be worth as much as it seems to be priced is another matter, but it's flatly superior to Deadly d8 (which seems the default version of Deadly).

Yeah, Fatal seems to be an odd duck when it comes to pricing, and except for Bows (d10) the only Deadly die we've seen is d8, so it does seem like they're "pricing" it because it can get so far out of hand should you abuse it's presence.

There's d6 deadly too.

[PossibleCabbage]

I am in the market for a finesse, reach, monk weapon (like a rope dart). Would that be martial or exotic? Feels like a rope dart would be a 2h weapon since you use one hand to throw and one to retract and manage the slack.

[Bardarok]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I am in the market for a finesse, reach, monk weapon (like a rope dart). Would that be martial or exotic? Feels like a rope dart would be a 2h weapon since you use one hand to throw and one to retract and manage the slack.

For my own uses I wrote of a meteor hammer as an exotic weapon:

2 handed, 1d6 B, finesse, reach, disarm, trip, monk

[Edge93]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

I like the idea of home brewing new weapons but I think number of traits alone is not a good way to balance the weapons since some traits are just better than others.

Fatal is clearly better than deadly

Finesse and Agile are just better than most of the rest.

So.. be careful of power creep I guess.

This is a fair point.

Specifically, Fatal clearly counts as two properties per die size it increases (this is consistent across uses, and should likely be applied to the War Razor above).

Agile and Finesse are both only one property in cost, but are seemingly only available on 1d6 or less one-handed weapons, or 1d8 two-handed ones.

All those restrictions should likely remain the case (okay, I can see dropping Fatal's cost a tad...but it should definitely be higher than other Properties in some fashion).

This is pretty close to the chart I made of the weapons, adding important distinctions to the already-insightful OP. However, not just fatal but a lot of properties cost different amounts from each other (to see which ones cost the least, all you have to do is take those top-dice weapons Edge93 identified and see which traits are able to appear on them). Incidentally, this variability accounts for most of the discrepancies Edge found in the playtest weapons; the ones with 1 die down and two traits typically needed to have more expensive traits that wouldn't appear on a top die weapon (or trait synergy; frex sweep is more valuable with forceful since the later attacks do more damage, and agile is extremely powerful with forceful and would usually cost too much to combine them), since if I recall, one of the only traits that full on costs a weapon die is reach. Obviously not all weapons can add up perfectly in any system, but there's no way that a system is going to absolutely perfectly score every possible trait either, so in the end, it should be close.

Huh. Thanks for the insight! I hadn't considered traits costing more due to synergy (though I did have thoughts of an Agile Forceful weapon being crazy).

[Edge93]

Bardarok wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I am in the market for a finesse, reach, monk weapon (like a rope dart). Would that be martial or exotic? Feels like a rope dart would be a 2h weapon since you use one hand to throw and one to retract and manage the slack.

For my own uses I wrote of a meteor hammer as an exotic weapon:

2 handed, 1d6 B, finesse, reach, disarm, trip, monk

Cabbage: with that trait cost it could be a d8 Exotic 1H. Or it could gain another trait and be a d8 Martial 2H.

Bardarok: cool! Though couldn't it be d8? It has 4 traits, which with the exotic 2H budget would give it a d8 damage die. (incidentally I don't think there ARE any d6 2H weapons in the Playtest)

[Bardarok]

Edge93 wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I am in the market for a finesse, reach, monk weapon (like a rope dart). Would that be martial or exotic? Feels like a rope dart would be a 2h weapon since you use one hand to throw and one to retract and manage the slack.

For my own uses I wrote of a meteor hammer as an exotic weapon:

2 handed, 1d6 B, finesse, reach, disarm, trip, monk

Cabbage: with that trait cost it could be a d8 Exotic 1H. Or it could gain another trait and be a d8 Martial 2H.

Bardarok: cool! Though couldn't it be d8? It has 4 traits, which with the exotic 2H budget would give it a d8 damage die. (incidentally I don't think there ARE any d6 2H weapons in the Playtest)

It probably could be d8. I try to be pretty conservative with homebrew things though. A power boost because I made a thing too weak to start is generally much better received than a nerf because I made something too strong.

[Edge93]

Bardarok wrote:

Edge93 wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I am in the market for a finesse, reach, monk weapon (like a rope dart). Would that be martial or exotic? Feels like a rope dart would be a 2h weapon since you use one hand to throw and one to retract and manage the slack.

For my own uses I wrote of a meteor hammer as an exotic weapon:

2 handed, 1d6 B, finesse, reach, disarm, trip, monk

Cabbage: with that trait cost it could be a d8 Exotic 1H. Or it could gain another trait and be a d8 Martial 2H.

Bardarok: cool! Though couldn't it be d8? It has 4 traits, which with the exotic 2H budget would give it a d8 damage die. (incidentally I don't think there ARE any d6 2H weapons in the Playtest)

It probably could be d8. I try to be pretty conservative with homebrew things though. A power boost because I made a thing too weak to start is generally much better received than a nerf because I made something too strong.

Hear, hear. I ought keep that in mind as I'm doing a handful of Psionics conversions as I am converting one of my games to PF2 and one character is a Wilder. It's tricky because Psionics isn't the most balanced system. XD

[Dante Doom]

So, I'm working in an archetype for Gunslinger and of course needed to create the guns.

What you guys think?

-Pistol- Exotic Weapon
Reload: 1
Damage: 1d6 piercing
Range: 30
Traits: Deadly d10, Versatile Bludgeoning, Backstabber [don't like the name, but still...]

-Musket- Exotic Two handed weapon
Reload: 2
Damage: 1d10 piercing
Range: 90 feet
Traits: Fatal d12, Deadly d8, Volley 30 feet

[Doktor Weasel]

Dante Doom wrote:

So, I'm working in an archetype for Gunslinger and of course needed to create the guns.

What you guys think?

-Pistol- Exotic Weapon
Reload: 1
Damage: 1d6 piercing
Range: 30
Traits: Deadly d10, Versatile Bludgeoning, Backstabber [don't like the name, but still...]

This kind of shows the absurdity of versatile and removing the ability for a weapon to do more than one kind of damage. Morning Star was a pretty good example already. I'm not saying it's a bad choice here, you're kind of backed into a corner, unless you're using versatile bludgeoning to man you can use the gun itself as a bludgeoning weapon, which would totally work. The rest does seem to fit well. I like backstabber there, despite the name.

Quote:

-Musket- Exotic Two handed weapon
Reload: 2
Damage: 1d10 piercing
Range: 90 feet
Traits: Fatal d12, Deadly d8, Volley 30 feet

Fatal and deadly together seems a bit much. Also I don't think Volley makes sense, muskets aren't inaccurate up close, it's at a distance where they have trouble, much like all smoothbore firearms. There is a lack of applicable traits though. Firearms do seem like they probably should have some of their own traits Maybe it could have a new trait that increases the penalties for range increments. And possibly something for the misfire chance that guns have in PF1.

I originally thought that the reload speed seemed a bit fast. But it's in line with the crossbows, so should probably be fine, especially if there isn't a Rapid Reload ability. And spending a whole round reloading doesn't sound fun, even if it's more realistic.

[nick1wasd]

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

A str Katana
1d8 S, Two-Handed 1d12, Deadly 1d8

A dex katana
1d6 S, Two-Handed 1d8, Finesse, Deadly 1d8

Or something similar.

What you're describing is actually akin to the swords used in Daisho (Samurai duel wielding), which is a katana & wakizashi pairing, and in that case, it would make more sense to have the wakizashi have agile, since they were extremely close to Europe's shortswords.

[HidaOWin]

HidaOWin wrote:

War Razor

Uncommon simple melee weapon
1d4 S
Agile, finesse, deadly d8, dangerous

New quality: Dangerous: attacks with this weapon deliver a critical hit when it exceeds the targets AC by 9.

Hmm maybe strip out Agile and I think that ends up about right. Makes it a better weapon for a single accurate attack. I like the design space of some weapons really amping up on a crit, but being inferior on multiple attacks, particularly in the dagger space where they struggle to find uses despite being iconic.

War Razor
Uncommon simple melee weapon
1d4 S
Finesse, deadly d8, dangerous

New quality: Dangerous: attacks with this weapon deliver a critical hit when it exceeds the targets AC by 9.

[Bardarok]

nick1wasd wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

...

What you're describing is actually akin to the swords used in Daisho (Samurai duel wielding), which is a katana & wakizashi pairing, and in that case, it would make more sense to have the wakizashi have agile, since they were extremely close to Europe's shortswords.

I know that is the real world answer but my suggestion isn't about realism it is about feel. And some players feel like the katana should be a dex weapon. My goal is to try and keep players with different views of how their characters should work (mostly form unrealistic media influences) happy rather than the simulationists. It is a fantasy game after all.

I'd probably have a wakizashi just be a reskined short-sword for the agile property. That way you could be either a str or dex based katana + wakizashi fighter just with the two different katanas.

Dante Doom wrote:

So, I'm working in an archetype for Gunslinger and of course needed to create the guns.
...

I'd probably go with more damage, a longer reload time and a really short range increment. Something that for the most part you don't bother reloading in combat but it worth using because the damage is so high. But that's my opinion and I know it isn't at all how guns worked in PF1 core.

Something like...

Pistol
Hands 1 Bulk 1 Reload: 2
Damage: 1d8 Piercing
Properties: Firepower 1d8, Deadly 1d8
Range: 10 ft

Musket
Hands 2 Bulk 2 Reload: 3
Damage: 1d10 Piercing
Properties: Firepower 1d10, Deadly 1d10
Range: 20 ft

Firepower: This weapon deals an extra die of damage of the listed type. This damage increases to two dice if the weapon is master quality and three dice if the weapon is legendary.

[QuidEst]

I don’t think “crit on AC+9” is good for the game. It’s appreciably slower to check that. Not that it’s long, but hearing “I got a 25” now requires knowing if that’s from the dude with the war razor or not and adjusting crit-AC accordingly.

In general, weapon properties should only require work from the person using them. Have a different MAP from agile? You can write that down in your attack listing. Crit on AC+9? That puts work on the person hit since they’re the one checking against their AC.

[Loreguard]

Doktor Weasel wrote:

Dante Doom wrote:

So, I'm working in an archetype for Gunslinger and of course needed to create the guns.

What you guys think?

-Pistol- Exotic Weapon
Reload: 1
Damage: 1d6 piercing
Range: 30
Traits: Deadly d10, Versatile Bludgeoning, Backstabber [don't like the name, but still...]

This kind of shows the absurdity of versatile and removing the ability for a weapon to do more than one kind of damage. Morning Star was a pretty good example already. I'm not saying it's a bad choice here, you're kind of backed into a corner, unless you're using versatile bludgeoning to man you can use the gun itself as a bludgeoning weapon, which would totally work. The rest does seem to fit well. I like backstabber there, despite the name.

Quote:

-Musket- Exotic Two handed weapon
Reload: 2
Damage: 1d10 piercing
Range: 90 feet
Traits: Fatal d12, Deadly d8, Volley 30 feet

Fatal and deadly together seems a bit much. Also I don't think Volley makes sense, muskets aren't inaccurate up close, it's at a distance where they have trouble, much like all smoothbore firearms. There is a lack of applicable traits though. Firearms do seem like they probably should have some of their own traits Maybe it could have a new trait that increases the penalties for range increments. And possibly something for the misfire chance that guns have in PF1.

I originally thought that the reload speed seemed a bit fast. But it's in line with the crossbows, so should probably be fine, especially if there isn't a Rapid Reload ability. And spending a whole round reloading doesn't sound fun, even if it's more realistic.

In a way, it seems like with firearms, being able to shoot a firearm maybe should become a 'common' tier of weapon. However, make being able to reload a firearm take a feat/class feature. Like a crossbow, they are after all mostly a point and shoot. On critical failures, your gun jams, and clearing the weapon requires the same feat that properly (re)loading a weapon requires.

Might have a class/archetype feat that would grant the ability to load/reload/clear firearms in combat as normal, it might also offer simple firearms a bonus weapon trait. Perhaps there might exist a more widely available skill feat, that allows one to load a firearm in a minute or so while in exploration/downtime mode, but not in combat.

Again, I feel like firing a firearm should be a simple weapon. So it probably shouldn't have that many traits by default. Maybe simply Deadly of the same die as the original weapon damage. If they have the feat to reload and use firearms better, boost the die size of the deadly die. They would have the skilled-reload # negative trait, basically meaning user have to have an ability saying they can load these weapons properly to do so.

I like that you made the pistol and musket's range increments lower than a crossbows. They seem appropriate. I also think Piercing damage is an appropriate choice. Honestly, I think that it shouldn't have versatile bludgeoning. [a potential variant ammo that was shotgun shot, with a reduced base damage die, halved range, could perhaps justify versatile bludgeoning]

I would guess that firearms would likely use the same weapon specialization as darts, for instance, although either the sling or spear specializations might be reasonable choices.

As to the discussion of Katanas earlier:

nick1wasd wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

A str Katana
1d8 S, Two-Handed 1d12, Deadly 1d8

A dex katana
1d6 S, Two-Handed 1d8, Finesse, Deadly 1d8

Or something similar.

What you're describing is actually akin to the swords used in Daisho (Samurai duel wielding), which is a katana & wakizashi pairing, and in that case, it would make more sense to have the wakizashi have agile, since they were extremely close to Europe's shortswords.

My first thought would have been simply expecting the Katana to simply be a oriental bastard sword. So I'd be fine with the Katana having the Two-handed trait. Although looking further at the traits, I could see offering a wielder of a Katana/Wakazazhi pair, the benefits of the Twin weapon trait (superseding the requirement that they be identical, in this case). Of note, the price of a Katana should in my opinion be more than a typical bastard sword, however. They care currently cheaper, since it looks like they were patterned off of longswords and not bastard swords.

I'd be more inclined to have a feat to allow the katana to be used as a finesse weapon than having 2 different versions of the katana.

[HidaOWin]

QuidEst wrote:

I don’t think “crit on AC+9” is good for the game. It’s appreciably slower to check that. Not that it’s long, but hearing “I got a 25” now requires knowing if that’s from the dude with the war razor or not and adjusting crit-AC accordingly.

In general, weapon properties should only require work from the person using them. Have a different MAP from agile? You can write that down in your attack listing. Crit on AC+9? That puts work on the person hit since they’re the one checking against their AC.

I understand the argument but I can’t think of another way to do a weapon that delivers critical hits more often, crits on a roll of a 19 are probably mostly irrelevant but for secondary attacks and +1 to hit is overpowered. 9 higher than AC is also fairly similar math to 10 higher.

I do wonder if ACs should be public knowledge at the table, so when you are putting out your props you have a label for AC. I do wonder if it cuts down on some of the more pointless GM-Player back and forths.

“32 to hit!”
“Nope.”
“Wait you have +2 to hit from Bard Song”
“34 to hit!”
“Still a miss”
“Wait, +2 from the flank!”
“Sigh...thats a hit”

[Dante Doom]

Bardarok wrote:

nick1wasd wrote:

Bardarok wrote:

On an aside I have been thinking about katanas and how there should be at least two versions since different people want different things from them based on both anime tropes and on reality.

...

What you're describing is actually akin to the swords used in Daisho (Samurai duel wielding), which is a katana & wakizashi pairing, and in that case, it would make more sense to have the wakizashi have agile, since they were extremely close to Europe's shortswords.

I know that is the real world answer but my suggestion isn't about realism it is about feel. And some players feel like the katana should be a dex weapon. My goal is to try and keep players with different views of how their characters should work (mostly form unrealistic media influences) happy rather than the simulationists. It is a fantasy game after all.

I'd probably have a wakizashi just be a reskined short-sword for the agile property. That way you could be either a str or dex based katana + wakizashi fighter just with the two different katanas.

Dante Doom wrote:

So, I'm working in an archetype for Gunslinger and of course needed to create the guns.
...

I'd probably go with more damage, a longer reload time and a really short range increment. Something that for the most part you don't bother reloading in combat but it worth using because the damage is so high. But that's my opinion and I know it isn't at all how guns worked in PF1 core.

Something like...

Pistol
Hands 1 Bulk 1 Reload: 2
Damage: 1d8 Piercing
Properties: Firepower 1d8, Deadly 1d8
Range: 10 ft

Musket
Hands 2 Bulk 2 Reload: 3
Damage: 1d10 Piercing
Properties: Firepower 1d10, Deadly 1d10
Range: 20 ft

Firepower: This weapon deals an extra die of damage of the listed type. This damage increases to two dice if the weapon is master quality and three dice if the weapon is legendary.

Ok, so after reading your guys recomendations, that's what i have blended:

Pistol
Hands 1 Bulk 1 Reload: 2
Damage: 1d8 Piercing
Properties: Deadly 1d8, Backstaber, Missfire
Range: 25 ft

Musket
Hands 2 Bulk 2 Reload: 3
Damage: 1d10 Piercing
Properties: Deadly 1d12, Missfire
Range: 60 ft

Missfire: If you critical miss a attack with this weapon, you double the reload time (this actions can be made in any order or number of rounds).

Then I have come with this feat:

Rapid Reload [4]
(Class Feat, Gunslinger)
You decrease the Reload time for Firearms in "1" and remove the trait "Missfire"

[Voss]

The thing with exotic weapons is they are actually significantly worse than other weapons, as proficiency with them is consistently behind (in some cases very far behind).

To be honest, I hope there is some revision to the weapons. There are very, very few that really compete with the 1d12, 1d8 or 1d6 weapons (2h, 1h, or finesse, respectively) and this gap only gets bigger as the +X goes up.

Its not quite as needed as armor revision, but its definitely there.

I noticed a distinct tendency to grab the appropriate S/P sword, a backup blunt weapon with the appropriate damage die and a ranged attack of some kind, and call it a day.

---
Plus, personally, I still want a functional mace and to be rid of the abomination that is the 3rd edition D&D warhammer.

[EliH_14]

HidaOWin wrote:

War Razor

Uncommon simple melee weapon
1d4 S
Agile, finesse, deadly d8, dangerous

New quality: Dangerous: attacks with this weapon deliver a critical hit when it exceeds the targets AC by 9.

Well, you were pretty spot-on, there.