I can't see any value in hacking PC computers.
1. Data? You shouldn't keep valuable data on a networked computer, and you should keep an unnetworked computer with valuable data on yourself. So remote hack mechanics or theft aside, its safe. (Or you put it on a data module not permanently connected to a computer and its entirely safe from everything but theft.)
2. Breaking into your ship or other property? I guess, but if the GM wants an NPC in there he'll just have it happen for story reasons, and you're not going to spend valuable resources on trying to prevent it.
3. Shutting down or disrupting controlled modules? The bonuses are bad enough that you shouldn't be doing this, if GM-controlled hackers disrupt this enough to stop you from doing it in the future they're doing you a favor.
People can already hack cars and cellphones. A character's comm can surely be hacked fairly easily unless measures are taken to prevent it.
"But what would that matter?"
It's simple. Maybe make it go off when you're trying to be sneaky. Shut it down while you're communicating with someone. Turn off the light when you need it.
Not to mention that whoever it is would gain access to all of your contacts, where you've been, and anything else you keep stored on your phone. And then they could completely wipe it clean. Send mean messages to important people disguised as you.
Just think about everything people use a cellphone for today. Just losing it is enough of a hassle. Having it hacked could lead to years of grief.
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If the PCs are never getting their computers' hacked, that suggests the problem is the GM not providing appropriate challenges.
Your DMing is bad is helpful even less often than the allegation is true.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and past a certain point the opposition should include plenty of technically adept opponents who want to compromise their systems.
And do what exactly, besides find a few terabytes of Barathu "adult educational videos" ?
People can already hack cars and cellphones. A character's comm can surely be hacked fairly easily unless measures are taken to prevent it.
"But what would that matter?"
It's simple. Maybe make it go off when you're trying to be sneaky. Shut it down while you're communicating with someone. Turn off the light when you need it.
Not to mention that whoever it is would gain access to all of your contacts, where you've been, and anything else you keep stored on your phone. And then they could completely wipe it clean. Send mean messages to important people disguised as you.
Just think about everything people use a cellphone for today. Just losing it is enough of a hassle. Having it hacked could lead to years of grief.
Unless you build your NPCs with remote hacking abilities (mechanic) or that dumb feat, they can't do any of these things without physically touching the PCs' gear. If they can do that hacking my gear is the least of my concerns, I'd rather they do that than shoot or hit me. Even the remote hacking, if done for these reasons, would be a poor choice of offensive action.
People can already hack cars and cellphones.
Then why is remote hacking even a thing? Shouldn't everyone be able to do that?
The game seems to assume that hacking requires a physical connection.
A character's comm can surely be hacked fairly easily unless measures are taken to prevent it.
Okay, so how does one go about having countermeasures? Is that the sort of thing the player needs to announce? How do you envision this working?
It's simple. Maybe make it go off when you're trying to be sneaky. Shut it down while you're communicating with someone. Turn off the light when you need it.
If someone is watching you close enough to know that you're sneaking or need the light its too late. They know where you live.
Not to mention that whoever it is would gain access to all of your contacts, where you've been, and anything else you keep stored on your phone. And then they could completely wipe it clean. Send mean messages to important people disguised as you.
Its probably backed up on the ship anyway.
But much like taking countermeasures, its REALLY hard to get the DM and players on the same page as to the nitty gritty details of your cyber life.
Just think about everything people use a cellphone for today. Just losing it is enough of a hassle. Having it hacked could lead to years of grief.
You can hack things remotely, provided you have some sort of connection. You don't have to be physically present in that case.
Yes, but the hacking target has to affirmatively choose to be connected to the infosphere for that to happen. My throw away comm unit for casual calls? Sure, why not. AbadarCorp’s e-commerce site? Naturally. My important data or the Stewards war plans? Nah, fam.
Unless the important data or Steward's war plans are on a totally isolated system, the potential for hacking the device is still there.
I can even do so from an outside device or terminal (provided I can some how connect it to the secure device), though I would still have to beat the secure computer's hack DCs, which may be substantially higher.
If the secured device really is isolated, not part of a network, not connected to the infosphere, or anything like that, then I'd need to be close enough to use the remote hacking class ability (if I have it) or close enough to actually interact with the secured device directly (which typically means physical interaction).
Wow this discussion went off the rails fast :)
If anyone here played Cyberpunk then the implications of what you can do with hacking are pretty clear. The framework is there for you in game but its unclear weather or not there is a interactive, jacking yourself into the "net" type of thing like in Cyberpunk but none the less its a treasure trove of things to do.
Players and NPCs alike can do a great deal of harm if that's how you want your campaign to roll. I think people look at it from the old 3.5 / pathfinder / D&D turn based combat perspective. Is it going to help my damage per round? not necessarily but form a narrative / making your break into the heavily secured complex RP / mission perspective it has tons of uses.
Maybe the evil big bad you pissed off last run by taking out some of his lower lvl associates decides to ruin your rep and litter the web with all kinds of planted evidence. Maybe he shuts down your access to your accounts. Sours your favorite store owner from dealing with you. Plants evidence of crimes so the Stuarts come calling.
Narritively there are a ton of things you can do.
I think this is one of the reasons computers in general could use a whole source book. It really needs some boundaries and jumping off points for inspiration. Hell its worthy of a entire class not to mention the tie'ins and potential uses all this has for a technomancer. This universe is exceedingly interconnected with computers so the implications and potential uses of computers and hacking should be pretty profound.
Wow this discussion went off the rails fast :)
If anyone here played Cyberpunk then the implications of what you can do with hacking are pretty clear. The framework is there for you in game but its unclear weather or not there is a interactive, jacking yourself into the "net" type of thing like in Cyberpunk but none the less its a treasure trove of things to do.
Players and NPCs alike can do a great deal of harm if that's how you want your campaign to roll. I think people look at it from the old 3.5 / pathfinder / D&D turn based combat perspective. Is it going to help my damage per round? not necessarily but form a narrative / making your break into the heavily secured complex RP / mission perspective it has tons of uses.
Maybe the evil big bad you pissed off last run by taking out some of his lower lvl associates decides to ruin your rep and litter the web with all kinds of planted evidence. Maybe he shuts down your access to your accounts. Sours your favorite store owner from dealing with you. Plants evidence of crimes so the Stuarts come calling.
Narritively there are a ton of things you can do.
I think this is one of the reasons computers in general could use a whole source book. It really needs some boundaries and jumping off points for inspiration. Hell its worthy of a entire class not to mention the tie'ins and potential uses all this has for a technomancer. This universe is exceedingly interconnected with computers so the implications and potential uses of computers and hacking should be pretty profound.
That's some well-laid out points. But consider this: It doesn't help my DPS so REEEEE!
Do we really want to spend our game auditing the security practices of other people on fictional devices to see if we can find a weak spot?
Only if the players are doing the same to their foes, as standard player tactics that are devastatingly effective would raise the obvious question of why their foes are not doing the same thing.
Do we really want to spend our game auditing the security practices of other people on fictional devices to see if we can find a weak spot?Only if the players are doing the same to their foes, as standard player tactics that are devastatingly effective would raise the obvious question of why their foes are not doing the same thing.
But this is hilariously ineffective.
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Do we really want to spend our game auditing the security practices of other people on fictional devices to see if we can find a weak spot?Only if the players are doing the same to their foes, as standard player tactics that are devastatingly effective would raise the obvious question of why their foes are not doing the same thing.
because different tactics work better with different targets.
Freezing the bank assets of a CEO cripples them, since money is how they do their job and pose a threat.
Hacking the computer of an information broker gets you important information.
Freezing the bank assets of a highly armed mercenary squad is certainly annoying, but they're still a highly trained soldier with a very large weapon and probably a bag full of UPBs they can live on/ pay someone to find out who did this and then go shoot them in the face.
This sort of thing is a plot for an adventure. It won't matter if the PCs invest in countermeasures that are only now kind of available (via buying a high level computer for every device they control)
My group is primarily interested in a book of player options because they feel the backgrounds and classes are still very very limited options-wise. We've already gotten a tonne on the setting for now and now we have enough items to make characters abit more diverse, so it'd be good to get charaters who's capabilities are more varied and interesting.
I do hope a starship focused book isn't coming out next year since my group is very much not a fan of the starship rules of Starfinder, so that combined with my group not playing APs and not needing a beginners box that'd just mean my group would be stuck not buying any first party Starfinder content.
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@Milo: I want a starship book for pretty much the reasons you don't want it: because the out of the box rules aren't that great.
SFS has done quite a few experiments with unusual weapons, terrain, victory conditions and whatnot. 3P publishers and home groups have also come up with things. Put all that together, rebalance some things, expand some officer roles and starship combat becomes a lot more interesting.
Such a book would have to do two things:
1) Fix some flaws in the base framework (rebalancing some weapons and turrets). Make it so Solarians and Mystics have a bit easier time also being valuable.
2) Give the GM a big toolbox with which to write interesting starship combats. Trading broadsides in empty space is boring, but this book could give you a dozen stellar phenomena that you can use to create an interesting battlefield. Alternative ("honorable") victory conditions or duel forms can also spice things up.
There's good ideas all around; at some point we need to bring them together instead of hiding them in scenarios to be used only once.
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I really hope we get something about coming hardbacks soon. Not getting any new big books for a long time into next year would suck a bit.
BUT...it's also a side effect of Starfinder being a new product line and an experiment by Paizo so I can understand why it's been so weird of late.
I wouldn't be surprised with PF2E's development eating a bit into the headspace of plotting and development of new products.
I really hope we get something about coming hardbacks soon. Not getting any new big books for a long time into next year would suck a bit.
BUT...it's also a side effect of Starfinder being a new product line and an experiment by Paizo so I can understand why it's been so weird of late.
I wouldn't be surprised with PF2E's development eating a bit into the headspace of plotting and development of new products.
yeah I believe PF2 is to blame. Not wanting to overshadow the play test an focusing the majority of in house resources on PF2 probably has a lot to do with it. I do hope to hear something soon. Even if its a here is our tentative plan for the next bit would be something.
yeah I believe PF2 is to blame. Not wanting to overshadow the play test an focusing the majority of in house resources on PF2 probably has a lot to do with it. I do hope to hear something soon. Even if its a here is our tentative plan for the next bit would be something.I really hope we get something about coming hardbacks soon. Not getting any new big books for a long time into next year would suck a bit.
BUT...it's also a side effect of Starfinder being a new product line and an experiment by Paizo so I can understand why it's been so weird of late.
I wouldn't be surprised with PF2E's development eating a bit into the headspace of plotting and development of new products.
Of course, any member from Paizo would deny that, as they have done in that past. Having a team work specifically on Starfinder, for instance. But it still seems pretty suspect.
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Creative Director, Starfinder
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Rest assured, the Starfinder team is hard at work on new Starfinder products! We've announced the Starfinder Beginner Box for Spring 2019, and the Dawn of Flame Adventure Path will run from February to July 2019.
There will be further releases (and announcements of those releases) as we go forward, but it is important to remember that Starfinder's release schedule is slower than Pathfinder's, which means announcements of new products will also be slower.
I would encourage everyone to check out Paizo's Twitch stream—in particular, our regular "Starfinder Wednesday" stream, where members of the Starfinder team talk about things Starfinder and answer questions, and where we'll also occasionally announce new products.
Rest assured, the Starfinder team is hard at work on new Starfinder products! We've announced the Starfinder Beginner Box for Spring 2019, and the Dawn of Flame Adventure Path will run from February to July 2019.
There will be further releases (and announcements of those releases) as we go forward, but it is important to remember that Starfinder's release schedule is slower than Pathfinder's, which means announcements of new products will also be slower.
I would encourage everyone to check out Paizo's Twitch stream—in particular, our regular "Starfinder Wednesday" stream, where members of the Starfinder team talk about things Starfinder and answer questions, and where we'll also occasionally announce new products.
Thanks Robert, Many of us are just eager to hear about more is all. I do appreciate the nature of Starfinder's release schedule its just before we had a list of things to look forward to and right now its more like Christmas. We know something is coming but not what yet so the anticipation is getting the better of us I suppose.
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I highly recommend the Paizo Twitch, specifically Starfinder Wednesday. It's not too long, not too short, and always has good stuff for us. My favorite episodes are the ones that discuss and go into detail about the lore.
I for one would buy a 2 or 3-monthly "starfinder player companion" or "starfinder campaign setting line. I feel like theres a happy medium to be found for starfinder between "a core book every 4 months and thats basically it" and "pathfinders schedule of 8 things a month"
Id also buy starfinder modules, starfinder tales and starfinder comics. Just saying.
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Thank you for recommendation of Paizo's Starfinder Wednesday Twitch stream! I can't ever tune in when they're on the air, but with the Twitch App on my iPad I can watch all the backlogs, including the Q&A. It's awesome viewing, especially when they go into detail on a setting!
The AP backmatter seems to be another place where they are launching new and interesting content all the time.
Hmm
I just want more fluffy playable races.
Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3
I have to admit, I am not fond of the Vlaka. Oh, I am fine with wolf-people as a concept. However, core to the Vlaka culture is. . . to put it bluntly, the medical neglect and abuse of children. Which is a thing that gets justified, in real life, on the same grounds that the Vlaka use. This does not thrill me.I just want more fluffy playable races.Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3
You could be a vlaka who was born blind but either they or their parents went ahead and got that fixed.
Personally, and I know a lot of people are going to find this boring, but I'd like to see at least a few aliens that are humans but slightly physically different in terms of skin color and what not. That old school, star trek, star wars, sci fi channel original, we don't have a budget here style alien.
At the moment we've got lashunta, androids, summerborn ryphorians, damais, and I think that's about it, really.
I appreciate the really weird races and I want to see more of them but I'd like to see a few more normies for them to be contrasted against.
I have to admit, I am not fond of the Vlaka. Oh, I am fine with wolf-people as a concept. However, core to the Vlaka culture is. . . to put it bluntly, the medical neglect and abuse of children. Which is a thing that gets justified, in real life, on the same grounds that the Vlaka use. This does not thrill me.I just want more fluffy playable races.Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3
In order to fix something, you first have to believe that something is wrong.
Vlaka blindness or deafness is literally a racial trait. It is who they are. There is nothing to cure.
I imagine many Vlaka would be incensed at the notion that there was something wrong with them.
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I have to admit, I am not fond of the Vlaka. Oh, I am fine with wolf-people as a concept. However, core to the Vlaka culture is. . . to put it bluntly, the medical neglect and abuse of children. Which is a thing that gets justified, in real life, on the same grounds that the Vlaka use. This does not thrill me.I just want more fluffy playable races.Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3In order to fix something, you first have to believe that something is wrong.
Vlaka blindness or deafness is literally a racial trait. It is who they are. There is nothing to cure.
I imagine many Vlaka would be incensed at the notion that there was something wrong with them.
This is makes a pretty good anti-vaxxer argument, too, surprised I haven't seen it yet. Dying of preventable disease is who they are.
I'm pretty horrified by society's discrimination that won't let me drive without correcting my 20/200 vision. Not being able to see clearly is just who I am.
I have to admit, I am not fond of the Vlaka. Oh, I am fine with wolf-people as a concept. However, core to the Vlaka culture is. . . to put it bluntly, the medical neglect and abuse of children. Which is a thing that gets justified, in real life, on the same grounds that the Vlaka use. This does not thrill me.I just want more fluffy playable races.Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3In order to fix something, you first have to believe that something is wrong.
Vlaka blindness or deafness is literally a racial trait. It is who they are. There is nothing to cure.
I imagine many Vlaka would be incensed at the notion that there was something wrong with them.
This is makes a pretty good anti-vaxxer argument, too, surprised I haven't seen it yet. Dying of preventable disease is who they are.
I'm pretty horrified by society's discrimination that won't let me drive without correcting my 20/200 vision. Not being able to see clearly is just who I am.
Should humans and the other Core races seek an extra pair of legs just because they can't keep up with Seprevois?
Should humans and the other Core races seek an extra pair of legs just because they can't keep up with Seprevois?
Humans don't have two slots where those extra legs are supposed to go. Space woofs do have eyes and ears that are, for reasons, not working.
And there are options to boost movement speed. Those options aren't to extra legs(yet, extra arms are an option), but they exist and are pretty mandatory for any melee fighters with standard speed to keep up with faster races.
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Should humans and the other Core races seek an extra pair of legs just because they can't keep up with Seprevois?I have to admit, I am not fond of the Vlaka. Oh, I am fine with wolf-people as a concept. However, core to the Vlaka culture is. . . to put it bluntly, the medical neglect and abuse of children. Which is a thing that gets justified, in real life, on the same grounds that the Vlaka use. This does not thrill me.I just want more fluffy playable races.Did you see the Vlaka in Alien Archive 2? :3In order to fix something, you first have to believe that something is wrong.
Vlaka blindness or deafness is literally a racial trait. It is who they are. There is nothing to cure.
I imagine many Vlaka would be incensed at the notion that there was something wrong with them.
This is makes a pretty good anti-vaxxer argument, too, surprised I haven't seen it yet. Dying of preventable disease is who they are.
I'm pretty horrified by society's discrimination that won't let me drive without correcting my 20/200 vision. Not being able to see clearly is just who I am.
Yes! And wings and extra arms. In Oras’ name we pray, amen.
Humans don't have two slots where those extra legs are supposed to go. Space woofs do have eyes and ears that are, for reasons, not working.
Should humans and the other Core races seek an extra pair of legs just because they can't keep up with Seprevois?
Vlakas that are born blind or deaf are naturally, biologically blind or deaf. It's not that they have organs that don't work, it's that those organs were never developed in the first place.
"Fixing" that is akin to adding an extra pair of legs to a human. You are adding something that wasn't naturally there before.
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Nah, it metioned that their blindness and deafness isncongenital, much like that in IrL dogs. And much like IRL dogs (and humans, for that matter, as the medical principle is the same), they still maintain the genetic ability to see, and even the functional hardware, so to speak. But a defect in the occipital or parietal lobes makes it impossible to perceive sound or hearing. However, corrective surgery for a society as technologically adept as SF’s, such as neurological fix is probably relatively simple. As to the justification as to why you should or shouldn’t fix a congenital defect...I mean technically it is a choice, sure. It *is* a weak cultural justification IMO. This gets used for the argument of whether we should “fix” autism if found. Speaking as someone who has autism, yeah I’d have preferred functional social skills thank you very much, and a lower predisposition towards GI problems. That would’ve been nice. And the whole “it’s just a different experience” is an argument. I don’t buy it though. Different, sure. It also causes me grief. That’s just me though. Still, it’s a bit of stale reasoning.
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I suppose there's something to be said for the Vlakas having not have had the technology to fix their congenital defects for so long, that they've developed culture/language to cope with it. And at least the blind ones get blindsight, which is a realm of experience they might lose if they got artificial eyesight.
I was loving starfinder for a long time, but the lack of anything to look forward to and mention of having a slower release schedule than pathfinder makes me want to move on. The most exciting part for me is making characters and theory crafting, which is always so fun when a new rulebook comes out.
I was loving starfinder for a long time, but the lack of anything to look forward to and mention of having a slower release schedule than pathfinder makes me want to move on. The most exciting part for me is making characters and theory crafting, which is always so fun when a new rulebook comes out.
All of the Adventure Paths have new options in them, and those are now monthly...
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It's almost as if people with autism are individuals and not a monolithic block who all want the same things.
I think that the Vlaka are an interesting way to explore the issue of differences without the kind of stakes that are involved in the real world with real people of differing abilities.
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It's almost as if people with autism are individuals and not a monolithic block who all want the same things.
I think that the Vlaka are an interesting way to explore the issue of differences without the kind of stakes that are involved in the real world with real people of differing abilities.
Very true. It is indeed an issue of each individual decision. I have more to say but that's off-topic for this thread and would gladly engage in discourse via PM.
However, this is actually one of the reasons I would like more books like Pact Worlds in the future (i.e. more culture books). As fun as game mechanics are, SF as a setting is actually well poised to let GMs pick at really interesting cultural issues. I'd love to see the viewpoints of literal alien creatures more, as it can be quite insightful (Vlaka's perception thing, Maraquoi's views on relationships as a result of biology, etc. All very cool).
"Fixing" that is akin to adding an extra pair of legs to a human. You are adding something that wasn't naturally there before.
Your analogy doesn't hold at all.
There are eyes. They do not do anything.
There are ears. They do not do anything.
We know what eyes do on a vlakka. Not only do other species have eyes, other vlaka have eyes and ears.
You aren't adding jack. You're fixing whats there.
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Coming from the not seeing well side of things, I can tell you for certain that despite my vision being totally borked and have other issues on top of it, I wouldn't fix it for anything. I was actually offered the chance to take part in a test of an experimental device that could help my eyes, I declined, and the reason I declined is that I've gone so long not having the ability to see clearly that losing that wouldn't be fixing anything for me, it'd be taking away part of myself.
Do try to keep in mind that they are all individuals. Just as there are some people with autism who want a "cure," and others who do not, I'm sure that there are some Vlaka who want a cure and others who don't.
There may even be Vlaka who try to purposefully blind or deafen themselves, so as to better "fit in" with other Vlaka. And there are humans who do that, as well. One such instance is the woman who dried to blind herself by pouring bleach in her eyes.