YES!!! I would love to see some sort of mechanic that runs to the (IN-game fiction) effect of "if you treat the wound and clean it every day it should only scar a little." While high fantasy doesn't tend to come with a ton of magic nowadays, it can still be interesting to play a low magic campaign where you're having to hunt down some magic thing to fix another magic thing, or to travel through a city that's liable to burn you all at the stake for having associated with magic users in that one battle 20 years ago-let alone what they'd do if they realized your "eccentric scholar" was actually a wizard!
Also, just because there's magic doesn't mean everyone can afford it or even wants it. Why get the magic healing from the religious zealot down the street when you can have a cool scar and avoid a lecture?
the feat is buried, and doesn't have the best name for what it does, but it's there, it's called battle medic, and allows you to restore someone's hit points with a DC 20 medicine check
The only thing that sucks about is is the 1/day use per character only
The entire game so far is built to have really short adventuring days, so I will be heavily surprised if they add anything to change that paradigm. Unless they reverse course completely on that design goal, i.e. remove resonance and 1/day non-magical healing.
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Man, I don't get how that short of an adventuring day would be enjoyable at all.
"Well, we just woke up and did our daily prep, but our only healer is a guy with battle medic and he just used it on all of us after that last battle, so it's back to sleep for us."
I quite disagree with you, actually!
In my opinion, short adventure days create a lot of of opportunities and choices for the group, and it seems like they want to adopt a more 'gritty' view of things, which I welcome.
But first, I need to test things to be sure if it's good.
About the topic: I don't feel like those extra healing options are needed. For me, one of the main points of the system now is power management (more so than action management). You need to choose what to use, and what you're going to be without, for me this is REALLY interesting
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Wait, were non-magical healing resources really that unpopular? I always thought hit-dice were a great solution for extending the adventuring day, and always thought of them as less cheesy than wand of cure light wounds.
I just wish battle medic wasn't so limited. I always preferred the feel of non-magic healing in tabletop settings over the magical counterparts.
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I was really hoping for non-magical healing to be able to carry a party through an adventuring day. The blogs sort of implied that it was possible. As it is, I have the impression that having a Cleric is, once more, compulsory, at least at the low levels.
Big disappoint. :(
I guess they were testing battle medic out, but they need to implement cure deadly wounds feature into the base trained medical skill, and possibly make feats that can speed that up or allow it to be used more than once.
By the way, has anyone tested battle medic in game yet? And how long are the adventuring days in the playtest campaign?
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As written, it is quite unusable at 1st level, since you're way too likely to accidentally kill your friend with a bad roll. Rather than 1/day at DC 15, I'd start at DC 10 or so and just add +5 for each additional use.
Then again, perhaps it's a design goal of the devs to send the party home to lick their wounds after literally the first fight of the dungeon. :\
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The entire game so far is built to have really short adventuring days, so I will be heavily surprised if they add anything to change that paradigm. Unless they reverse course completely on that design goal, i.e. remove resonance and 1/day non-magical healing.No, the game isn't.
The game is built so that casters have to conserve, using cantrips most of the time, and only using spells only when absolutely necessary. You aren't supposed to heal up between every fight. You aren't supposed to approach things like in PFS and try to nova everything down.
The name of the game is slow and steady.
That remains to be seen how it works out in practice. But resonance, less spells per day and the absolute necessity to have one player forced into playing a walking healing battery indicate to me that my view is the correct one.
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I guess the solution is to make Bolstered have a shorter duration so that you can't spam Battlefield Medic, but can use it frequently enough that it isn't irrelevant.
Come to think of it Bolstered should probably be more like an hour in most cases.
Yeah, that'd be a solution. Since the vast majority of spells last exactly enough for one combat, you don't have to rush to the next room, either.
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The natural ways of healing are terrible and take feats.
There is no short rest. There is no ritual. There is no UMD.
You need someone who can cast Heal and we're back to dedicated healers again. This is the most game breaking design aspect and is extremely discouraging.
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No, the game isn't.
The game is built so that casters have to conserve, using cantrips most of the time, and only using spells only when absolutely necessary. You aren't supposed to heal up between every fight. You aren't supposed to approach things like in PFS and try to nova everything down.
The name of the game is slow and steady.
Going «slow and steady» does not help you survive combats that start when you're at half hitpoints. That would only be true if it would help you regain hitpoints (as a short rest does in D&D5), but it doesn't. A tough fight with half starting HP is suicide, and you don't know in advance whether next fight is going to be tough. That sounds like Russian Roulette, and that is not a kind of game I like playing.
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The natural ways of healing are terrible and take feats.
There is no short rest. There is no ritual. There is no UMD.
You need someone who can cast Heal and we're back to dedicated healers again. This is the most game breaking design aspect and is extremely discouraging.
I agree.
(Note, though, that Bards can cast Soothe, which is useful for out-of-combat healing, albeit at a very slow pace.)
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There is no UMD.
Actually, there is.
Trick Magic Item is a feat that allows you to use your skill in one of the magical traditions (Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occult) that you are trained in to activate magic items of that tradition.
It doesn’t work exactly the same way, but it basically does what UMD used to do.
Trick Magic Item is a feat that allows you to use your skill in one of the magical traditions (Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occult) that you are trained in to activate magic items of that tradition.
It doesn’t work exactly the same way, but it basically does what UMD used to do.
Great, thanks for letting me know, I asked around my entire area and no one knew this.
Divine and Primal have Heal, Occult has Soothe (1 minute cast for 1d6+stat). I guess it's only Arcane that is left out.
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Yeah, I don't disagree. Especially since the feat has a chance of hurting the target more. They really should either get rid of that or get rid of the limited use.the feat is buried, and doesn't have the best name for what it does, but it's there, it's called battle medic, and allows you to restore someone's hit points with a DC 20 medicine checkThe only thing that sucks about is is the 1/day use per character only
Oh please God no. Making that unlimited use is about the worst idea I have seen yet on this forum.
And D&D 5ed, has way too much recovery, that's why I have played in 4 APs and taken a cleric the 16th level and never seen a character death. Keep that care bear system out of PF2.
If you guys are hurt and beat up got rest, who cares what kind of rest it's called. If you have time pressure, and can't rest for 8 hours, to bad. Sorry you had to struggle. This is not a game for millennial's seeking safe spaces.
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If you guys are hurt and beat up got rest, who cares what kind of rest it's called. If you have time pressure, and can't rest for 8 hours, to bad. Sorry you had to struggle. This is not a game for millennial's seeking safe spaces.
Adventuring with depleted hitpoints is not «struggling», it's «dying». If I wanted to play a game of inevitable mortal attrition, I'd play Call of Cthulhu or something of the like.
(Also, resting for 8 hours does not solve the problem, it gives you back 2 HP. You have to rest a week to recover from a single hard fight.)
I suppose this will just have to be one of those games where you need a healer. It's just that compared to PF1, the range of effective party healers has apparently shrunk down to «Cleric». :\
Cleric
Druid
Sorc with divine
Healing items
Resting
There is enough healing to get by in an adventure, no need to have 5th edition auto healing.
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Cleric
Druid
Sorc with divine
Healing items
RestingThere is enough healing to get by in an adventure, no need to have 5th edition auto healing.
And if you have nobody who wants to play a healbot? You're SOL?
If you don't want a cleric you might get one or 2 PCs with Battle Medic and Nature Medicine, but they would be only effective early game as they don't scale well.
Also I don't understand why Nature Medicine does not have critical success/failure stanzas, only the weird thing that in wilderness you might heal 1d8 more up to the GM.. And it seems Battle Medic bolsters you, while Nature Medice does not, meaning that other creatures cannot do Battle Medic you if you were already medicated, but they can use Nature Medicine on you?
Trick Magic Item is a feat that allows you to use your skill in one of the magical traditions (Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occult) that you are trained in to activate magic items of that tradition.
It doesn’t work exactly the same way, but it basically does what UMD used to do.
Great, thanks for letting me know, I asked around my entire area and no one knew this.
Divine and Primal have Heal, Occult has Soothe (1 minute cast for 1d6+stat). I guess it's only Arcane that is left out.
Soothe has a cast time of two actions. It has 1 minute duration after healing when it gives +1 conditional bonus to saving throws against mental effects.
If you don't want a cleric you might get one or 2 PCs with Battle Medic and Nature Medicine, but they would be only effective early game as they don't scale well.
Also I don't understand why Nature Medicine does not have critical success/failure stanzas, only the weird thing that in wilderness you might heal 1d8 more up to the GM.. And it seems Battle Medic bolsters you, while Nature Medice does not, meaning that other creatures cannot do Battle Medic you if you were already medicated, but they can use Nature Medicine on you?
Nature Medicine does bolster you, it just doesn't use the "bolster" terminology for whatever reason. For either ability you can't use it more than once per day per creature.
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Cleric
Druid
Sorc with divine
Healing items
RestingThere is enough healing to get by in an adventure, no need to have 5th edition auto healing.
Druid, Divine Sorcerer, Bard all have to sacrifice their primary class feature to heal.
Healing items are now expensive since they abolished the CLW wand.
Resting takes forever.
The entire game so far is built to have really short adventuring days, so I will be heavily surprised if they add anything to change that paradigm. Unless they reverse course completely on that design goal, i.e. remove resonance and 1/day non-magical healing.
Maybe the game is built to have easy encounters (by PF1 standards). You fight six or seven battles against low-CR enemies and, by the end, you're running out of spells and resonance, on low HP, with no possibility of healing.
Anyone got any experience of this yet?
Nature Medicine does bolster you, it just doesn't use the "bolster" terminology for whatever reason. For either ability you can't use it more than once per day per creature.If you don't want a cleric you might get one or 2 PCs with Battle Medic and Nature Medicine, but they would be only effective early game as they don't scale well.
Also I don't understand why Nature Medicine does not have critical success/failure stanzas, only the weird thing that in wilderness you might heal 1d8 more up to the GM.. And it seems Battle Medic bolsters you, while Nature Medice does not, meaning that other creatures cannot do Battle Medic you if you were already medicated, but they can use Nature Medicine on you?
Natural Medicine says, "You can use this feat to heal a particular creature only once per day." That is superior timing to Battle Medic, which says, "Regardless of your result, the target is bolstered to your use of Battle Medic." Bolster is once every 24 hours, so an evening healing via Battle Medic cannot be repeated before the next evening. As Corwin Icewolf joked above, the party might as well sit still until evening. But once per day resets in the morning.
A weird side effect of limiting Battle Medic and Natural Healing by timing is that if two party members learn the feat, then each one can tend a particular patient once per day for twice as much healing. Reality flies out the window, revealing that this is solely a power limitation.
I myself would prefer the wording, "The target is bolstered against all uses of this feat until he takes another 10 damage or has 8 hours of sleep or 24 hours pass." But if the healing scales too high, then we would have the abusive possibility of, "I'm legendary, so I can heal you for another 4d10, but I have to hurt you for 10 more damage first. Hold still while I stab you with my dagger." ("Oops, sorry about that crit.")
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You can patch up yourself or an adjacent ally,
even if you’re in the middle of combat. In order to
do so, you must attempt a DC 20 Medicine check.
Regardless of your result, the target is bolstered to your use of
Battle Medic.
If you’re a master of Medicine, you can instead attempt a
DC 25 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 2d10, and
if you’re legendary, you can instead attempt a DC 30 check to
increase the Hit Points regained by 4d10.
Success The target regains Hit Points equal to 1d10 plus your
Wisdom modifier.
Critical Success As success, but target regains 1d10
additional HP.
Critical Failure The target takes 1d10 damage
If I have a +3 Medicine modifier and Wis 14, for example, I would seem to have a 20% chance of healing 1d10+2 (roll 17-20), and a 35% chance of inflicting 1d10 damage (roll 1-7). That doesn't seem usable — am I missing something?
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If I have a +3 Medicine modifier and Wis 14, for example, I would seem to have a 20% chance of healing 1d10+2 (roll 17-20), and a 35% chance of inflicting 1d10 damage (roll 1-7). That doesn't seem usable — am I missing something?
It seems horrible, it's Russian Roulette.
I think they might have taken their crit failure methodology a little too far in this case. Maybe there should be no crit failure on uses of Medicine.
We've also seen that when administering first aid, players are afraid to prevent their allies from dying because the threat of killing them in high. This shouldn't be the case.
On both Medicine checks, Stabilizing and Battle Medic, either:
1) There should be no critical failure; or
2) The DC should be 10 or lower.
I agree that these talents are not a viable option. I'd rather have characters get their own healing mechanics even if it's not in combat.
On this the short rest of 5e is working flawlessly.
I'd rather have class talents that refresh every fewer hours or that scale better or that'd don't inflict damage on crit failure. This playtest is basically forcing at least one player to get a support archetype..
I think they probably need the allow the skill to heal more then once per day.