Monk Strebgth to AC


Prerelease Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Would a feat that allows monks to add Strenth to AC and TAC instead of Dexterity whilie unarmored or lightly armored be feasable?
If so could we also have this for Barbarians?
If it isnt could we use Constitution to AC instead?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Only unarmored or lightly armored because if somethong can punch through steel in can pierce your Thogh Hide


No need for such a feat.

Since you have several attribute boosts to spare, giving Barbarians better Unarmored Proficiencies should be easier. With Bracers of Armor, that puts them in a pretty good spot, particularly considering they'll keep their damage reductions.

For STR Monk, here's hoping they wizen up and build into it a quick +1 AC if your STR is your main attribute.


Biztak wrote:

Would a feat that allows monks to add Strenth to AC and TAC instead of Dexterity whilie unarmored or lightly armored be feasable?

If so could we also have this for Barbarians?
If it isnt could we use Constitution to AC instead?

5th Ed allows Dex + Con, which is pretty cool, and in 3rd Ed there is a PrC, Deepwarden, that lets you use your Con instead of Dex for AC, so this sort of thing has legacy.

As for Str to AC, I am all for it, Str needs all the help it can get these days!


One thing that I do want to see in PF2 is support for a sort of "Iron Body" defense option for monks and monk-adjacent folks.


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How about str as DR instead then? (you know iron body.)


Biztak wrote:

Would a feat that allows monks to add Strenth to AC and TAC instead of Dexterity whilie unarmored or lightly armored be feasable?

If so could we also have this for Barbarians?
If it isnt could we use Constitution to AC instead?

The developers already said that adding more then dex to the ac pretty much screws up the math, so while this seems mechanically fitting and in universe not unlikely I heavily doubt that it will happen at any point.


Seisho wrote:
Biztak wrote:

Would a feat that allows monks to add Strenth to AC and TAC instead of Dexterity whilie unarmored or lightly armored be feasable?

If so could we also have this for Barbarians?
If it isnt could we use Constitution to AC instead?

The developers already said that adding more then dex to the ac pretty much screws up the math, so while this seems mechanically fitting and in universe not unlikely I heavily doubt that it will happen at any point.

Yes, Monks do not add Wis mod to AC, they get up to Legendary proficiency in unarmoured; but you could substitute Dex with another score for AC and keep the maths right.


I think even with a feat tax you might screw up the math on Dex vs strength balance though. Despite seeming to have bad defenses on paper, in actual play the strength monk kicks a lot of ass. At least part of that is probably from using non-finesse high damage weapons or style strikes.

Why use d6s for Dex if you can use d10s for strength to AC builds?


We could also do away with Abilities altogether.

It would increase the number of character concepts supported by the system, improve game-balance, and put an end to debates like this one or Dex-to-Damage.


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While no abilities altogether may be an solution from some points of view, it would just not feel the same...
Also I would like if there are some things that make a difference between a fighter and the mage, attributes are good for that


Seisho wrote:

While no abilities altogether may be an solution from some points of view, it would just not feel the same...

Also I would like if there are some things that make a difference between a fighter and the mage, attributes are good for that

It seems like training is probably the better differential between a fighter and a mage than attributes.


I personally like my mage be smarter and the fighter be brawnier


Seisho wrote:
I personally like my mage be smarter and the fighter be brawnier

Well, the Fighter would (probably) still be tougher, harder to hit, and be able to inflict damage due to Class Features associated with their choice of Class - they just wouldn't necessarily be tied to things like Constitution, Dexterity, or Strength.


I wouldn't mind a Monk-specific feat, maybe called "Tough Skin," that converts their Strength modifier as an Armor Bonus to AC (which doesn't stack with other forms of armor, even Bracers of Armor, of course).

It would make Monks who devote more into their Strength more viable, while also not making it so everyone can just get Strength to AC.


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I'd prefer if DEX and STR were more distinct rather than more similar.


Seisho wrote:
I personally like my mage be smarter and the fighter be brawnier

We will see how smart a wizard needs to be in this system. I am betting we will see a fair number of support wizards who might be stronger than they are smart, or at least equal.


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Im thinking rather than switch ability scores around they are more likely to do a defensive stance.

Ex: Mountain Stance
While in this stance you gain +4 armor bonus to AC and TAC and your maximum dexterity bonus drops to +2. Your speed is reduced by 5 ft and you have a -3 armor check penalty.

Something like that, where the stance is kind of mimicking armor just like the stances let your unarmed strikes king of mimic weapons.


Bardarok wrote:

Im thinking rather than switch ability scores around they are more likely to do a defensive stance.

Ex: Mountain Stance
While in this stance you gain +4 armor bonus to AC and TAC and your maximum dexterity bonus drops to +2. Your speed is reduced by 5 ft and you have a -3 armor check penalty.

Something like that, where the stance is kind of mimicking armor just like the stances let your unarmed strikes king of mimic weapons.

Despite considering this a joke thread, and really disliking the way armor works in PF2, this is really a elegant ability under this system.

Good job.


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@Bardarok: That is a really cool and much better realized version of this idea.

Edit: Also on the tangent up thread, I hope it's viable to have a highly intelligent fighter in this edition. Possibly using the knowledge skill feats to exploit weaknesses and picking up a tactician archetype that pulls a bit from the old cavalier but with some intelligence based tactics.


One think that i also like much about Bardok ability is that it "rewards" stance/style dancing... and with 3 actions and the flurry of blows system, i would like to have the options to chose to use the actions to move (like seems to be the current design intent) or to stance dance for better adjusting to situations.

So people who want to play dodgy/speedy monks could do their way, but people who wants to play tough "less mobile" monks would also have the tools to do so.


Bardarok wrote:

Im thinking rather than switch ability scores around they are more likely to do a defensive stance.

Ex: Mountain Stance
While in this stance you gain +4 armor bonus to AC and TAC and your maximum dexterity bonus drops to +2. Your speed is reduced by 5 ft and you have a -3 armor check penalty.

Something like that, where the stance is kind of mimicking armor just like the stances let your unarmed strikes king of mimic weapons.

I like this, though I could also see not having an ACP. My main issue with this is that it takes up your stance, which could make STR monk builds a bit too samey, but I guess it depends on how much customization you can get within stances.


Wolfism wrote:

@Bardarok: That is a really cool and much better realized version of this idea.

Edit: Also on the tangent up thread, I hope it's viable to have a highly intelligent fighter in this edition. Possibly using the knowledge skill feats to exploit weaknesses and picking up a tactician archetype that pulls a bit from the old cavalier but with some intelligence based tactics.

Having the knowledge skills let you dabble in ritual casting without much of an investment means a smart fighter can also invest in some basic utility, rather than leaving all of that sort of thing up to the wizard. Also minor alchemy dabbling if relevant.

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