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Yep, it's exactly the same, I'd imagine. Except of course the Encumbrance limit in SW was trivially ignored by just picking good items.
Right money is the best magic. Luckily we played that game dirt poor and on the run from the empire which seemed appropriate for the genre.
On PF2 Bulk since they have a place on the sheet for worn and ready items it might still be a restriction at high levels since Id assume things like bag of holding and portable hole would count as stowed. Of course there is nothing to stop a high Str character from carrying all the things but I think that is their right.
I like Bulk, I have a much easier time estimating bulk for random objects without a stat block than I do weight, since I get bogged down thinking about density.
Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?
I understand you'd like to go back to weight.
I don't mind them adding bulk, I just don't want it to replace it. [much like some systems list both meter and feet or pounds and kilograms].
Me, I'd prefer neither, if that were possible!
*shrug* There should be something for those that want to track it: it's up there with rations and water as things some don't worry tracking.
I don't like keeping track of encumbrance, it's too boring for me.
I don't mind tracking: I don't find it exciting but I generally doesn't take long enough to be a drag. For me I want weight for visualizing what the item is like. IMO pounds are simple: I know how much a flour bag [5 and 10 pounds] feels like in heft. I know the same with a 50 pound bag of sand, 40 pound of salt, 30 pound bag of cat food, 25 pound bag of rice, ect. Bulk? My best bet is to convert it into a range of weights which is... unsatisfying. 'So this is 50-100 pounds? That's a big difference in how easy it is to move.'
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Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?
Yeah, it's 1d8 + spellcasting mod. (Which on Sorcerer's 1/day use would be Cha.)
Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?
Heal starts at 1d8+Spellcasting Modifier (per the wording in the All About Spells blog), which I'd assume is Wisdom+Level+Proficiency (which is what her Spell Roll is noted as in the sheet). But in that case she'd be healing 1d8+5, not +4; so I've got no idea how it's calculated.
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Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?Heal starts at 1d8+Spellcasting Modifier (per the wording in the All About Spells blog), which I'd assume is Wisdom+Level+Proficiency (which is what her Spell Roll is noted as in the sheet). But in that case she'd be healing 1d8+5, not +4; so I've got no idea how it's calculated.
I'm pretty sure Spellcasting Modifier refers to Wisdom for Clerics, and Charisma for Sorcerers.
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For Bulk, I'm cool with specific items weighing less or more than the 'default' based on awkwardness. I just really want 'about X pounds of dead weight is 1 Bulk' stated somewhere so we can figure out how much Bulk it is carrying a 200 lb boulder. Or your unconscious friend. Or whatever else comes up.
The Starfinder answer ("Well, 200 lbs is between 20 and 40 Bulk") is the opposite if helpful. It's too big a range to actually use for anything.
I don't really like Bulk either. I would prefer to just use mass for encumbrance instead.I think weight encumbrance is better than mass encumbrance.
Sorry, old Hero System habits... for heroic fantasy 'Weight' is indeed a superior measurement for ease of use. Likewise Boyancy would be equally useful (to note in addition) if Underwater campaigning is a systemic expectation.
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I like Bulk, I have a much easier time estimating bulk for random objects without a stat block than I do weight, since I get bogged down thinking about density.
Myself, I have a FAR easier time with weight: A simple web search gives a weight of even the most esoteric items. For instance, in a second I found out an average beef carcass weighs about 600 pounds and a side usually weighs slightly over 300 lbs. An Antique Chinese Mah Jong set 7 pounds. A human skeleton [desiccated] around 11.
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The Starfinder answer ("Well, 200 lbs is between 20 and 40 Bulk") is the opposite if helpful. It's too big a range to actually use for anything.
For me, if for some reason I know the item in question is 200 lbs (which I probably won't- I don't tend to know the weights of random objects) the question will be "well, then how difficult is it to carry."
If it's easy to carry, like it's got straps and the weight is well distributed it's towards the 20 end of the spectrum. If it's difficult to carry (It's large, has no obvious handholds, had its weight oddly distributed) it's towards the 40 end of this spectrum. So note the weight and apply the "how hard to carry?" modifier.
So 200 lbs of uranium in bar shape (roughly the volume of a gallon of water) is 20 bulk, but two toilets fused together as an object d'arte is 40 bulk.
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I like Bulk, I have a much easier time estimating bulk for random objects without a stat block than I do weight, since I get bogged down thinking about density.Myself, I have a FAR easier time with weight: A simple web search gives a weight of even the most esoteric items. For instance, in a second I found out an average beef carcass weighs about 600 pounds and a side usually weighs slightly over 300 lbs. An Antique Chinese Mah Jong set 7 pounds. A human skeleton [desiccated] around 11.
The fact that both these attitudes exist is why we should go with Bulk but with a clear conversion number. It lets everyone use the version they're comfortable with.
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The Starfinder answer ("Well, 200 lbs is between 20 and 40 Bulk") is the opposite if helpful. It's too big a range to actually use for anything.For me, if for some reason I know the item in question is 200 lbs (which I probably won't- I don't tend to know the weights of random objects) the question will be "well, then how difficult is it to carry."
If it's easy to carry, like it's got straps and the weight is well distributed it's towards the 20 end of the spectrum. If it's difficult to carry (It's large, has no obvious handholds, had its weight oddly distributed) it's towards the 40 end of this spectrum. So note the weight and apply the "how hard to carry?" modifier.
200 lbs is about the weight of a large-ish fit person. A Human Fighter/Soldier for example. Carrying unconscious comrades is a thing.
The big issue with the 'how hard to carry' thing is that I don't know what the default is. Is a backpack where 5 lbs kicks in? Is a giant block of stone where 10 lbs does? Where between those is a human body? And, given that carrying a fallen comrade might be necessary for their survival, I'm basically arbitrarily and with no guidance deciding whether the unconscious PC is gonna die.
When the rule is 'make something up to see whether a PC lives or dies' that's kind of a s%&&ty rule.
It's not necessary to have this unfortunate ambiguity to use Bulk, though. You can have a clearly stated conversion number and then say it varies up or down based on awkwardness and there's suddenly actual guidelines.
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Likewise going in the "I like bulk" camp. Having dealt with carrying stuff recently when I moved apartments upstairs, I can say I was more encumbered by lighter objects that were unbalanced or otherwise unwieldy than heavier items that were in a backpack, or had hand grips or otherwise designed to be carried easily. If bulk can represent this better than weight, then I'm all for bulk.
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Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.
I'm pretty sure Spellcasting Modifier refers to Wisdom for Clerics, and Charisma for Sorcerers.Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?Heal starts at 1d8+Spellcasting Modifier (per the wording in the All About Spells blog), which I'd assume is Wisdom+Level+Proficiency (which is what her Spell Roll is noted as in the sheet). But in that case she'd be healing 1d8+5, not +4; so I've got no idea how it's calculated.
Furthermore, I think the heal spell changed between the Playtest characters and the "All about Spells" blog; the VSM version just heals equal to spellcasting modifier (+4 for an 18 WIS for example). Heightening adds extra dice as noted in the blog. (If you are using VSM, it adds +1d8; if you are using the V or VS version, add +2d8). In the Glass Cannon playtest the VSM version was only adding 4 points of healing on each cast.
Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.
That does suck, but it looks like any PF1 ranged touch: +1 for level, and +1 for DEX of 12. At least it's vs. touch AC.
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I'm pretty sure Spellcasting Modifier refers to Wisdom for Clerics, and Charisma for Sorcerers.Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?Heal starts at 1d8+Spellcasting Modifier (per the wording in the All About Spells blog), which I'd assume is Wisdom+Level+Proficiency (which is what her Spell Roll is noted as in the sheet). But in that case she'd be healing 1d8+5, not +4; so I've got no idea how it's calculated.Furthermore, I think the heal spell changed between the Playtest characters and the "All about Spells" blog; the VSM version just heals equal to spellcasting modifier (+4 for an 18 WIS for example). Heightening adds extra dice as noted in the blog. (If you are using VSM, it adds +1d8; if you are using the V or VS version, add +2d8). In the Glass Cannon playtest the VSM version was only adding 4 points of healing on each cast.
I'm not seeing what changed? Both the blog and the pregen show healing for VSM version as equal to spellcasting modifier.
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Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.
It seems to be a standard ranged attack, just vs. Touch AC. That's pretty solid, really.
Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.That does suck, but it looks like any PF1 ranged touch: +1 for level, and +1 for DEX of 12. At least it's vs. touch AC.
If they allowed +casting stat instead of +dex for spell attacks that would both be more consistent with how DCs are calculated and probably allow them to get rid of TAC and replace it with reflex defense.
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If they allowed +casting stat instead of +dex for spell attacks that would both be more consistent with how DCs are calculated and probably allow them to get rid of TAC and replace it with reflex defense.Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.That does suck, but it looks like any PF1 ranged touch: +1 for level, and +1 for DEX of 12. At least it's vs. touch AC.
They may actually have done this. These look like the early versions of the sheets, and some stuff may have changed a little since they were made.
I'm not seeing what changed? Both the blog and the pregen show healing for VSM version as equal to spellcasting modifier.I'm pretty sure Spellcasting Modifier refers to Wisdom for Clerics, and Charisma for Sorcerers.Is the 1d8+4 on heal new? I feel like maybe it was 2d8 before? is the +4 a set amount or is it the Cleric's Wis Mod being added to a base d8?Heal starts at 1d8+Spellcasting Modifier (per the wording in the All About Spells blog), which I'd assume is Wisdom+Level+Proficiency (which is what her Spell Roll is noted as in the sheet). But in that case she'd be healing 1d8+5, not +4; so I've got no idea how it's calculated.Furthermore, I think the heal spell changed between the Playtest characters and the "All about Spells" blog; the VSM version just heals equal to spellcasting modifier (+4 for an 18 WIS for example). Heightening adds extra dice as noted in the blog. (If you are using VSM, it adds +1d8; if you are using the V or VS version, add +2d8). In the Glass Cannon playtest the VSM version was only adding 4 points of healing on each cast.
Oops, I missed that -- there was some discussion of it changing during the podcast, and I misread the last sentence. So the pregen was consistent anyway.
They may actually have done this. These look like the early versions of the sheets, and some stuff may have changed a little since they were made.If they allowed +casting stat instead of +dex for spell attacks that would both be more consistent with how DCs are calculated and probably allow them to get rid of TAC and replace it with reflex defense.Also, does anyone know if the fire ray modifier is in addition to something else (like your DEX Mod, or your Spell Roll), or just the +2? Because the latter option just seems very weak.That does suck, but it looks like any PF1 ranged touch: +1 for level, and +1 for DEX of 12. At least it's vs. touch AC.
Hmm but they kept TAC. Of course I know they locked in everything once they sent the book to the printers but I am still of the (admittedly uninformed) opinion that TAC should be removed since it is adding a redundant statistic. But I know this has been discussed to death on the forums so I'll wait till next month to make a new opinion.
I did think that heal X/day was charisma based but it appears to be Wis based here I like that.
I am also starting to get annoyed that spell points are used exclusively for powers and think they should probably be called power points.
I did think that heal X/day was charisma based but it appears to be Wis based here I like that.
3 + CHA mod of 2, for 5.
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In PF2, even with the rope, everyone without Assurance has to roll. There's no mechanic available for easily solving this kind of stuff.This is actually not true. Mark Seifter has specifically stated that there's a 'Take X' mechanic even for people without the Assurance Feat.
It's less generous than Assurance is (which is why Assurance is good), but it exists, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it solves this problem for a lot of people (Untrained people may be in trouble...we really don't know).
This is correct, as far as Assurance is a "Take X" mechanic for people with the Assurance feat, but I've seen from some of the responses to your post that people are thinking that the mechanic is actually going to be something like "Use the result as if you rolled X" which it is not. It's more like Assurance, a way to determine that a check is easy enough that usually nobody has to roll.
I did think that heal X/day was charisma based but it appears to be Wis based here I like that.3 + CHA mod of 2, for 5.
oh I was thinking lvl + wis but 3+Cha makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
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Assurance athletics is from her background as a farmhand, so she probably got it for free without needing to meet the requirements. Fumbus has his background feat and alchemical crafter from being an alchemist.
Yup, it grants the Assurance feat for Athletics but not training in the skill:
FARMHAND BACKGROUND
With a strong back and an understanding of seasonal cycles you tilled the land and tended crops. Your farm could have been razed by invaders, you could have lost the family tying you to the land, or you might have simply tired of the drudgery, but at some point you became an adventurer.
Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Constitution or Wizdom, and one is a free ability boost.
You gain the Assurance skill feat with Athletics, and you're trained in the Farming Lore skill.
So what does untrained assurance give you?
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So what does untrained assurance give you?
Depends on precise wording, but probably the same as Trained (that's certainly what Kyra's seems to give). It will just never upgrade unless you get to Expert (which would involve getting Trained first).
It's also probably impossible without a Background giving it to you.
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Count me among someone super happy about bulk. I can eyeball it and as a Brit it makes me happy to have an alternative to trying to get a feel for units I don't even touch outside of American RPGs.
Count me among someone super happy about bulk. I can eyeball it and as a Brit it makes me happy to have an alternative to trying to get a feel for units I don't even touch outside of American RPGs.
Heh, it hadn't even occurred to me that pounds would be less than ideal to much of the world anyway.
Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...
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Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...
I don't think spellcasters get class feats at level one, instead they get... spells.
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Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...I don't think spellcasters get class feats at level one, instead they get... spells.
I thought that may have been it so I went back to the blog:
At 1st level, you might pick Communal healing so when you cast heal to tend to a creature other than yourself, you regain some Hit Points too, or you might take Turn Undead, which forces undead that critically fail their saves against your heal spells to flee from you. (This works great with the 3-action version of heal!) You could also pick Expanded Domain to explore your deity's domains further, gaining the initial power from a different domain than the first one you chose. You can select this feat twice, letting you delve into a maximum of three domains!
So it does seem a class feat is missing here or the blog meant 2nd level.
Getting access to two domains at first level (and therefore more spell points if I recall correctly) could be pretty amazing.
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Oh, Keith Slashmaster Valeros the Human Fighter is up.
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Oh snap now were talking.
I like it but man I can see myself going through a lot of shields.
So Attack of Opportunity doesn’t seem to do anything to spellcasters?
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Shields iirc can be fixed after a fight. Also, of course this is a base-quality non-magical shield, later on you get the real deal. Anyways, if you block you're still ignoring attacks that deal 1-4 hps, but if it gets dented you can still just raise it without blocking and that alone gives Valeros an AC of 19. Pretty tough nut to crack. He's also expert with weapons, he has a total +2 skill bonus, not just +1 like Kyra.
Attacks of opportunity don't do anything to spellcasters per se (it's a tanking ability), but I think any amount of damage while casting should force a save to not have the spell fizzle. We'll see.
Also notice his sudden charge lets him run at speed x2 and attack at the price of just 2 actions, with 1 left to attack again against a mage, or raise shield (and then block) against a warrior. Nothing to laugh at imho.
So Attack of Opportunity doesn’t seem to do anything to spellcasters?
Hmm well does a spell require a manipulate action? I don't know the types of actions that well yet. on the plus side interrupting the action as part of your reaction does seem kind of nice. It just depends on what counts as a manipulation action.
The reactive shield bit does seem pretty nice. So am I right in that I can not choose to do igther on my turn then later in the round decide if I want to AOO or raise my shield in response to my opponents actions. So my opponent decides to attack me I raise shield if they try to run I AOO them.
Also notice his sudden charge lets him run at speed x2 and attack at the price of just 2 actions, with 1 left to attack again against a mage, or raise shield (and then block) against a warrior. Nothing to laugh at imho.
Everyone can already move twice and attack once at full attack using the new action economy so the feats only function is to reduce it to two actions. Still very useful but we’ve known that since the fighter preview blog.
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Also notice his sudden charge lets him run at speed x2 and attack at the price of just 2 actions, with 1 left to attack again against a mage, or raise shield (and then block) against a warrior. Nothing to laugh at imho.Everyone can already move twice and attack once at full attack using the new action economy so the feats only function is to reduce it to two actions. Still very useful but we’ve known that since the fighter preview blog.
I think I know how the action economy works. I was explicitely pointing out "his sudden charge lets him run at speed x2 and attack at the price of just 2 actions".
The reactive shield bit does seem pretty nice. So am I right in that I can not choose to do igther on my turn then later in the round decide if I want to AOO or raise my shield in response to my opponents actions. So my opponent decides to attack me I raise shield if they try to run I AOO them.
Exactly right.
Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...I don't think spellcasters get class feats at level one, instead they get... spells.I thought that may have been it so I went back to the blog:
At 1st level, you might pick Communal healing so when you cast heal to tend to a creature other than yourself, you regain some Hit Points too, or you might take Turn Undead, which forces undead that critically fail their saves against your heal spells to flee from you. (This works great with the 3-action version of heal!) You could also pick Expanded Domain to explore your deity's domains further, gaining the initial power from a different domain than the first one you chose. You can select this feat twice, letting you delve into a maximum of three domains!So it does seem a class feat is missing here or the blog meant 2nd level.
Getting access to two domains at first level (and therefore more spell points if I recall correctly) could be pretty amazing.
Huh. My guess is that with all their features compared to Wizard (casting, armor proficiency, a martial weapon proficiency or upgrade to a simple weapon, a bunch of heal/harm spells, 8 hp, and a domain power), Cleric doesn’t get a class feat at first level. The feats still have level 1 as their requirement, because (as seen in Valeros) humans can get an extra class feat at first level.
Or it’s a sheet error.
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So Attack of Opportunity doesn’t seem to do anything to spellcasters?Hmm well does a spell require a manipulate action? I don't know the types of actions that well yet. on the plus side interrupting the action as part of your reaction does seem kind of nice. It just depends on what counts as a manipulation action.
Actually, Mark explicitly answered this back in the fighter preview thread.
So, the blog might not have made it clear, but most spells require the kind of fine manipulation that triggers an AoO (somatic gestures, material components).
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Huh. My guess is that with all their features compared to Wizard (casting, armor proficiency, a martial weapon proficiency or upgrade to a simple weapon, a bunch of heal/harm spells, 8 hp, and a domain power), Cleric doesn’t get a class feat at first level. The feats still have level 1 as their requirement, because (as seen in Valeros) humans can get an extra class feat at first level.Or it’s a sheet error.
Valeros has the same total number of class feats + features as Fumbus, so I don't think that extra feat is coming from human. Though maybe I'm wrong and that's what natural ambition does, which wouldn't be too surprising I guess. Kyra's ancestral feat is spent on a general feat (toughness) it would seem.
I notice these characters begin with armor they couldn't have afforded as new PCs in 1st edition, such as chainmail and a breastplate.
I'm assuming plate mail will still be out of the beginning price range, but I guess we'll see when Seelah shows up.
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Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...I don't think spellcasters get class feats at level one, instead they get... spells.I thought that may have been it so I went back to the blog:
At 1st level, you might pick Communal healing so when you cast heal to tend to a creature other than yourself, you regain some Hit Points too, or you might take Turn Undead, which forces undead that critically fail their saves against your heal spells to flee from you. (This works great with the 3-action version of heal!) You could also pick Expanded Domain to explore your deity's domains further, gaining the initial power from a different domain than the first one you chose. You can select this feat twice, letting you delve into a maximum of three domains!So it does seem a class feat is missing here or the blog meant 2nd level.
Getting access to two domains at first level (and therefore more spell points if I recall correctly) could be pretty amazing.
I'll reiterate that I expect these are the first draft pregens and may be slightly mechanically wrong to the final version of the rules.