Instantaneous, long range, two way conversation over any distance?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I'd like a phone. Just a way for 2 characters to instantly contact each other and speak no matter distance. In a world with people who turn into dragons and the ability to see anyone, anywhere, I feel like this should be possible. Is it?

Bonus points if it's in the form of something that anyone can use, i.e. two Fighters could use it to talk to each other.


Can't find anything that fits what you need exactly:

Missive stone - Pass whispered messages with the paired stone (must be within 3 miles).

Communique Rings - Pass whispered messages with the paired ring (must be within 1 mile).

Shell of Sending - 1/day message of 25 words or less, no range limit.

Telepathic Bond - Unlimited communication with unlimited range.

Permanent Telepathic Bond would be closest to what you need but some don't like the investment given the dispel chance. It would also require a lvl 13 caster to set it up and a fair amount a gold depending on how many you want to be linked.

Dark Archive

slade867 wrote:

I'd like a phone. Just a way for 2 characters to instantly contact each other and speak no matter distance. In a world with people who turn into dragons and the ability to see anyone, anywhere, I feel like this should be possible. Is it?

Bonus points if it's in the form of something that anyone can use, i.e. two Fighters could use it to talk to each other.

Custom Wondrous Item based on the Sending spell.

You'd need to use it in 25 word increments, one of which would, of course, have to be 'Over'.


Gallant Armor wrote:

Can't find anything that fits what you need exactly:

Missive stone - Pass whispered messages with the paired stone (must be within 3 miles).

Communique Rings - Pass whispered messages with the paired ring (must be within 1 mile).

Shell of Sending - 1/day message of 25 words or less, no range limit.

None of those are even close. How weird is it that this doesn't seem to exist in Pathfinder?


Crystal Ball with telepathy ("The viewer is able to send and receive silent mental messages with the person appearing in the crystal ball. Once per day, the character may attempt to implant a suggestion (as the spell, Will DC 14 negates) as well.")


slade867 wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:

Can't find anything that fits what you need exactly:

Missive stone - Pass whispered messages with the paired stone (must be within 3 miles).

Communique Rings - Pass whispered messages with the paired ring (must be within 1 mile).

Shell of Sending - 1/day message of 25 words or less, no range limit.

None of those are even close. How weird is it that this doesn't seem to exist in Pathfinder?

I made an edit to my post to include Permanent Telepathic Bond as an option, not sure if that helps.

Long range communication is generally highly valued in Pathfinder. You could use the items as a baseline to create more powerful versions that work as you desire.


The crystal ball is nice, but an agent's clasp seems to be an even better option. You could also use a normal crystal ball without the telepathy as long as one of you has access to the message spell, which can work through scrying.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Crystal Ball with telepathy ("The viewer is able to send and receive silent mental messages with the person appearing in the crystal ball. Once per day, the character may attempt to implant a suggestion (as the spell, Will DC 14 negates) as well.")

I had a character once in the King Maker AP that used that sort of crystal ball to keep in contact with his circle of spies. Really one of the best ways of communicating in Pathfinder, though you have to make sure the people you want to contact regularly don't accidentally resist the scrying attempt. Honestly, if you're agents are being scryed its less suspicious if they fail to save!


slade867 wrote:
None of those are even close. How weird is it that this doesn't seem to exist in Pathfinder?

Instant verbal communication of any significant distance in the real world is a fantastically new technology comparatively, with the telephone originating somewhere in the 1850s, radio in the 1890s, the cellphone in the 1970s, etc. Arguably, there are few greater discoveries/inventions in terms of the impact, both overt and subtle, upon human existance.

Lets compare those dates to some of Pathfinder's notable anachronisms: gunpowder and the printing press. In the real world, the printing press has existed since the 14th century, and gunpowder dates as far back as the 9th.

If I were a deity tasked with managing elements of a vibrant world, I would likely vote to delay instantaneous communication as long as possible, regardless of what my portfolio is. Only the most change-focused, status-quo-destroying forces would aggressively advocate it. This isn't a judgement on the morality of it, change occurs when ideas and knowledge is shared, and removing the "wait time" of such interactions (especially those that might not ever have occured due to distance) exponentially speeds up that process.

The ascension of Nethys could be seen as the ultimate cautionary tale of instant communication, actually.

And then of course, is the good for goose, good for gander argument. If instant communication exists for one, it exists for all, unless that one is somehow unique and impossible to replicate (which would make it a greater artifact). Imagine what Cheliax could become with a state controlled cellphone network. What could the orc warchiefs of Belkzen do with the ability to be heard nationwide? What could cultists of Gyronna, Lamashtu, or Ghlaunder accomplish?

For that matter, what of Hell? The abyss? What could the Four Horsemen do, with the armies and weapons of Szuriel, Horseman of War?

Finally, as an amateur author, I can say that instant communication is the single biggest obstacle in effective mystery or horror stories, which depend on restricted information and/or isolation. Hence the Cell Phones are Useless trope, where you commonly find in such stories that the phone gets broken, runs out of battery, is lost, etc.

Certainly, what you do in your game is up to you and your group. But I would caution that certain doors shouldn't be opened unless you are willing to either accept the consequences or willfully pretend it didn't happen.

tldr; Knowledge is power, and instant knowledge is instant power. Smart game designers treat such abilities with care.

PS Not trying to be harsh or anything, just wanted to present some good reasons why the abilities aren't in the game.


This is of course not even touching on the fact that the subject title is something science fiction has to handwave or vaguely talk about how their communications are based on entangled particles technobabble. The fact is that as soon as you start trying to communicate between worlds much less solar systems you start dealing with a tremendous lag issue. Even communications systems that travel "at light speed" would deal a considerable amount of communications lag.

unlimited range is huge thing to introduce and it comes with a lot of ramifications that you have to be willing to deal with once its been introduced.


You could have the characters find an ansible in Numeria somewhere.


The Black Bard wrote:
Lets compare those dates to some of Pathfinder's notable anachronisms: gunpowder and the printing press. In the real world, the printing press has existed since the 14th century, and gunpowder dates as far back as the 9th.

People forget the printing press didn't originate in Europe either. 9th century in China, just like gunpowder, albeit with some severe limitations compared to Gutenberg's improved version.


Yep, the rest of the world kept going even if Europe stalled once Rome fell.


The Black Bard wrote:
PS Not trying to be harsh or anything, just wanted to present some good reasons why the abilities aren't in the game.

Its a good read, and something to keep in mind. However, when you consider that Teleportation is something that is very common once you hit mid-levels...

Seriously almost every demon and devil has Greater Teleport at will. They can deliver written messages with ease anywhere on the plane. There really is no excuse for a Demon to send a written message, it takes more effort to writ it than it does for them to teleport to the recipient and just talk it out.

Any ruler in Galorian should have someone with access to Teleport working for them. Every major city should have some sort of defense against enemies teleporting into the city and just wrecking havoc before teleporting out.

The main thing is to keep long distance communication from being cheap and convenient. Players may want the internet and cell phones, but it totally goes counter to the feel and vibe of any fantasy setting. But a few limited communication devices isn't going to be horribly disrupting. Well, no worse than Teleportation.


avr wrote:
The Black Bard wrote:
Lets compare those dates to some of Pathfinder's notable anachronisms: gunpowder and the printing press. In the real world, the printing press has existed since the 14th century, and gunpowder dates as far back as the 9th.
People forget the printing press didn't originate in Europe either. 9th century in China, just like gunpowder, albeit with some severe limitations compared to Gutenberg's improved version.

I could have sworn that somebody in ancient Greece or somewhere nearby invented a printing press or at least moveable type, but it didn't catch on due to the ready availability of slave scribes, But now I can't find this.

The Sideromancer wrote:
Yep, the rest of the world kept going even if Europe stalled once Rome fell.

Rome wasn't the most friendly to technological innovation, again due to the ready availability of slave labor.


ring gates~?
100 miles on same plane. cost 40k. 20k to make'em.
depending on gm if sound can travel from one side to the other (if it is like an open window or is it a phase door that only object pushed can travel).
if it won't work like a window you can still stick your head through(it is actually one of it's many uses described) to talk. and it won't count against the daily limit since :
"(Objects only partially pushed through and then retracted do not count.)".

btw if you'r filthy rich and need longer distance you can make a relay by putting more rings in between and linking the 'out' side of one to the 'in' side of the other.

edit:
after looking again it seem to me that it work more like a window. if it was like a phase door that you can't hear (and maybe see) through it then attacking, and even more so casting a spell, would be somewhat problematic. but since it say "A spellcaster could even cast a spell through a ring gate" without anything added -which mean any normal spell can be cast through even word depended spells like 'command'. so voice seem to not be hindered going through like an open window effect and not a phase door. (sticking one's head was mentioned for looking around)


The 3rd level spell Irrisen Mirror Sight can be made into an item. A rank in linguistics gets you lip-reading. I made a 1/day magic item of the spell with a price of 6,000 gp. I used it to run my info/spy net across the inner sea.

/cevah


Permanent telepathic bonds, though admittedly that is a bit inflexible.


Having seen a number of threads concerning the topic here's a somewhat partial list of ways to communicate via spells.

- Telepathic Bond, can be made permanent between two (or more) individuals. Fairly expensive to use as a permanent solution. Unlimited range within a plane but unable to cross planes.
- Many Scrying spells + Message, can work but Message thru the sensor is unreliable especially at lower levels (5%/ caster level). The sensor can be detected/perceived.
- Sending, allows a response by target, can be interplanar but becomes less reliable when across planes (5%+ failure rate). Demand (8th level Sor/Wiz) as Sending but adds in a Suggestion. Must be familiar with the target.
- Helping Hand, anywhere within up to 5 miles but lots of delay built into the spell (up to 4 hours at max range) but could be useful when separation is under 1000 feet or the communication is not time sensitive.
- Any familiar (and possible an animal companion taught the right trick) might act as a messenger/go between. Add in Share Senses for extra communication capability.
- Animal Messenger, low level but reliable, ultimate "carrier pigeon" spell. Must send carrier to designated location, potential for interception.
- Teleport Object, high level (7th) but can send an object to a targeted location (and hence obviously one-way).
- Teleport spells can be used to set up rapid movement between locations with those teleporting carrying messages. Planar Ally spells often mentioned to call on the aid of an Outsider (a Lantern Archon is frequently mentioned) who possesses Teleport/Greater Teleport.
- Dream, range unlimited but one-way. Requires the recipient to be asleep (and hence capable of sleeping). Either the caster or someone the caster touches can send the message. The messenger must be in a trance for the duration of the spell and is "defenseless" and unaware while in the trance (fails all saving throws, 'helpless condition' implied but not so stated).
- Whispering Wind, lower level but requires caster to send the Wind to a familiar location where it may or may not find a recipient. Range in miles per level
- Message, cantrip (0 level spell) limited range, can be combined with many Scrying spells. Language dependent. Must mouth and whisper the words.
- Mirror Sight
- Minor Dream

and probably others I'm unfamiliar with particularly outside the core rules.

I've personally used a Permanent Telepathic Bond with my, ultimately, very high level Loremaster. Note it can be blocked by many things especially at high levels where PCs might use it. Mind Blank, for instance, is likely to block the spell as Telepathic Bond is a divination, but I could see arguments made that it doesn't actually 'gather or divine' information and therefore isn't affected. Personally I just used my very high Will save and other precautions and didn't press the issue within our gaming group and typically went without Mind Blank.


Cevah wrote:

The 3rd level spell Irrisen Mirror Sight can be made into an item. A rank in linguistics gets you lip-reading. I made a 1/day magic item of the spell with a price of 6,000 gp. I used it to run my info/spy net across the inner sea.

/cevah

If Paizo ever does a Nineteen Eighty-Four AP, this spell and its permanent items should totally be a thing.


Import the Scrolls of Communication from BECMI/RC.
A set of paired scrolls where anything written on one instantaneously appears on the other. The two must be on the same plane, and there is a limit of 100 words per message, which must be erased before a new one can be sent. Other than that, it is an at will item. I would suggest ignoring the 5% chance per message of being destroyed that the original has, though.

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