I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
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There's all sorts of possible answers to this question. Maybe they later died saving the world a second time. Maybe they became the ruler of a nation. Maybe they went off to have adventures in another plane and were never heard from again.
The thing is, Paizo shouldn't answer these questions explicitly, because that puts those heroes in a box. If they leave it vague and open ended, any given table can say "Oh yeah, it was OUR party from the other game that saved the day that one time. Here's what should happen with them..."
Otherwise, this is simply the question of "what are all the high level characters doing?" This has been explored to death in other topics-- see the Magical Exploits We Hope Get Fixed thread for examples.
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In my campaign, those 17th level people went to Irrisen for the Witchwar Legacy. Next I sent them back to the Runeforge on another mission and then to Nidal. Later they traveled to Minkai to visit an old friend who was now clan leader of the Amatatsu clan.
In other words, the question of "What happened to the PCs?" would be hard to answer in the PF1 Golarion setting. We don't need a definite answer merely because PF1 becomes PF2.
I own a copy of Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting, the Dungeons & Dragons version of the Inner Sea World Guide. Golarion did not change much between D&D 3.5 and PF1. It will probably change as little between PF1 and PF2.
They have children who are born to the world of 2E.
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They take the test of the Starstone. Results to be determined.
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They pushed the big red button and caused the Gap.
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They, as important NPCs, are converted into Second Edition stats. We know that most of our iconic pregens — Ezren, Harsk, Valeros, Seoni, etc — are being converted into relevant 2E forms. Why not other NPCs too?
Player characters stay in their own universes, but I see no reason why some of the iconic NPCs of our shared universe have to change.
Hmm
I think the question focuses more on the stories than the mechanics.
There have been lots of APs making many high-level PCs.
It's not just a question of what does one plucky band of upstarts do with their free time after achieving nation-shaping levels of power. There are far more PCs than that. What effect has 100 or so PCs with nation-shaping power had on Golarion, not just via the APs that got them there, but afterward? At least one band is even Mythic.
For example, with the new Runelords AP, those Runelords hypothetically have to contend with all the dedicated-evil-stompers developed in the other APs. And maybe pick up the more mercenary ex-PCs for their own side.
For continuity, I would love to see this addressed, if only to have ex-PC forces neutralize one another or be neutralized by the Runelords and their armies. The latter option would also allow the Runelords to be truly overwhelming (because they planned so well) while giving the AP's PCs a chance to take advantage of the setbacks caused by all those ex-PCs giving unexpected pushback. It'd be extra cool to seed the modules with distinct treasures from other APs taken off the bodies of dead heroes. Or have some of those heroes converted into undead.
Lots of options for follow up or to clear the board. It'd be a shame if the opportunity went wasted.
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You can also take the Doctor Strange route and have the high level PCs off dealing with high level threats. Level 1 PCs never actually get asked to save the world; they get asked/forced to deal with a low level threat, which turns out to be a small part of a larger scheme, which then turns out to be part of a larger conspiracy, and by the time the PCs have become enough of a nuisance for the real bosses to focus on, they are strong enough to handle it. And by the time the PCs have unraveled the conspiracy enough to know how high the stakes are, they are strong enough to make a go of solving it themselves rather than wasting time trying to track down a legendary hero that may or may still exist.
This has been explored to death in other topics-- see the Magical Exploits We Hope Get Fixed thread for examples.
Well I wouldn't have thought to look there since the name points to a different topic altogether. Any part in the thread? Also, I don't really browse the forums here much since speculation is just noise to me. Now if the devs were to say something here...
But back to my question, a specific example would be Magnimar, which kinda has a tradition of building monuments to heroes. So what new statues will newcomers see? I'm not asking for a specific party literally set in stone, just some official statement, if only "we'll tell you when the book gets out" (and something more definitive-but-open-ended when it does).
People retire and become lvl 20 commoners.
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Some may still be around but most have been quietly assassinated, leaving no trace and false verdicts of natural causes. This is now a world of their own making, a place where Legendary Heroes have created too much noise among those that seek silence ...
As such, confidantes turn to others that can help their idols - Goblins. Small and unpredictable, these "imaginative" thinkers are able to look at the world from a less complacent perspective. To ensure the safety of the remaining Heroes, a secret society has formed to focus on producing the perfect Goblin Adventurer. For only they are destined to save the world from the forces of Evil - Healing Wand crafters. These vile denizens of otherwise unimposing settlements proliferate Cursed Items, which Adventurers foolishly believe to be enabling them to have autonomy and Party variety. No, these fiendish Wands grant a little bit of Positive Energy in exchange for pieces of both the wielder and the Target's souls, shortening their lifespans to right after an A.P. finishes. Fortunately their new Goblin allies have been honing skills effective in combatting this subversive plague - torching local crafting guilds and Ye Grand Ol' Magic Shoppes, stocking up with supplies from apothecaries without rudely waking up the staff, and utilizing their mighty Alchemist Resonance to deal with this menace hands on. These "practice runs" and unusual tactics have often been misconstrued, yet the increasing threat now forces these brave warriors into the limelight. In this new world where Legends are unraveled, valiant Goblins strive to save kingmakers and nation-breakers alike.
So the next question is this : while they protect our world, who will step up to save them?
Creative Director
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I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
We're already addressing this issue in Return of the Runelords, which assumes that there are already, at the minimum, 2 high level parties of PCs out there from Rise of the Runelords AND Shattered Star. The presence of those PCs is a part of the adventure path.
This is a weird exception to our normal rule of adventures being something that can be played in any order.
The role a retired PC plays is a tricky one for us to codify in print, because we don't create those PCs and have no control over them. Best we can do is offer some advice (as seen in the various upcoming Return of the Runelords adventure path, along with its Player's Guide), but for the most part, going forward in 2nd edition, we won't be talking about the PCs at all unless we're doing another direct sequel that involves them in some way.
As in 1st edition, what role older or retired PCs play is pretty much something only that table's GM can answer and explore. As such, it won't be something we concern ourselves much with (as is the case for most of our current products—that's not gonna change).
It was a legendary artifact spear (as a weapon that could be used by nearly anyone) and it had the drawback that it had to be 'attuned' for a given Runelord by absorbing one attack from said Runelord's school of magic. Incredibly powerful, but also exceptionally niche and then hidden away for 'when the time comes'.
Thank you very much for chiming in here, James, I had almost forgotten the above little story.
Also, appreciate the consideration that a new adventure is just that, a new adventure.
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I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
We're already addressing this issue in Return of the Runelords, which assumes that there are already, at the minimum, 2 high level parties of PCs out there from Rise of the Runelords AND Shattered Star. The presence of those PCs is a part of the adventure path.
This is a weird exception to our normal rule of adventures being something that can be played in any order.
The role a retired PC plays is a tricky one for us to codify in print, because we don't create those PCs and have no control over them. Best we can do is offer some advice (as seen in the various upcoming Return of the Runelords adventure path, along with its Player's Guide), but for the most part, going forward in 2nd edition, we won't be talking about the PCs at all unless we're doing another direct sequel that involves them in some way.
As in 1st edition, what role older or retired PCs play is pretty much something only that table's GM can answer and explore. As such, it won't be something we concern ourselves much with (as is the case for most of our current products—that's not gonna change).
Thanks for that reply!
Pretty much what I thought it would be. :3
This has been explored to death in other topics-- see the Magical Exploits We Hope Get Fixed thread for examples.Well I wouldn't have thought to look there since the name points to a different topic altogether. Any part in the thread? Also, I don't really browse the forums here much since speculation is just noise to me. Now if the devs were to say something here...
Well, can't blame you for not reading these forums that closely, we do have an awful lot of noise here.
I think it starts on like the second page of this thread.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v4hg&page=last?Magical-exploits-I-hope-PF2 -erases-from-the-game
I'll pull some quotes from it that I think are good illustrations. Death Morales says:
There's also just not enough high level paladins, with enough friendly casters on hand 24/7, to just run around putting out fires in a place the size of Golarion. That also doesn't even get into potential code issues as they stomp all over the legal authority of neighboring countries who may have their own plans to deal with problems in their borders.
Deadmanwalking says:
They also say this, in response to the idea of a cabal of high level wizards assassinating every good aligned PC before the heroes can themselves reach high levels.
Frankly, even some seriously Evil people will dislike this. I mean, it makes the world more boring and that's something Baba Yaga would very possibly object to. Baba Yaga is CR 30 and deserves that CR.
In short, this is an awful strategy and anyone who does do it is likely to be dead inside a year. People powerful enough to do this know that and generally don't want to die horribly (and, in the case of Baba Yaga have your soul bound into a paperweight or something...Baba Yaga is terrifying), and will thus not do this.
Which is not to say I'm against something to limit 'scry and fry' but this example is just not gonna happen.
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I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
We're already addressing this issue in Return of the Runelords, which assumes that there are already, at the minimum, 2 high level parties of PCs out there from Rise of the Runelords AND Shattered Star. The presence of those PCs is a part of the adventure path.
This is a weird exception to our normal rule of adventures being something that can be played in any order.
The role a retired PC plays is a tricky one for us to codify in print, because we don't create those PCs and have no control over them. Best we can do is offer some advice (as seen in the various upcoming Return of the Runelords adventure path, along with its Player's Guide), but for the most part, going forward in 2nd edition, we won't be talking about the PCs at all unless we're doing another direct sequel that involves them in some way.
As in 1st edition, what role older or retired PCs play is pretty much something only that table's GM can answer and explore. As such, it won't be something we concern ourselves much with (as is the case for most of our current products—that's not gonna change).
It is a Very Good Thing that what the previous AP veterans are up to (at least in broad brushstrokes) is addressed for the Return of the Runelords AP. A great many thanks for taking the effort to address this!
We're already addressing this issue in Return of the Runelords, which assumes that there are already, at the minimum, 2 high level parties of PCs out there from Rise of the Runelords AND Shattered Star. The presence of those PCs is a part of the adventure path.I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
But will this be addressed should the events of adventure paths be incorporated into the 2nd edition?
Around 20 APs, average 5 PCs in each... I make that 100 pubs where you really don't want to pick a fight with the barman/woman/dwarf.
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The high level characters from PF1 APs have probably mostly settled down and are running stuff in their area...but in most APS enough high level people died that the total number of high level people will have changed little.
I know that my PCs in CotCT mostly settled down to ruling Korvosa and their various business interests (one started a major trading company and they all owned an inn together). But there were already high level and scary people in Korvosa (many of whom died in that AP), so I don't think the actual number of 14th level or higher characters changed much in that one. The city probably bumped slightly in level, but not much.
Likewise, in RoW (the current AP I'm doing), if the PCs succeed they probably wind up with a country and certainly wind up very powerful...but they've also killed or seen killed several other powerful people who were around already. Again, I'm not at all sure the total number of high level people in the area changes all that much.
The same is true of most APs. They tend to stop some impressively bad things and replace the high level people already in the area with nicer ones, but nit change the total number of powerful people that much.
WotR, with the Mythic Rules and all, is something of an exception. That one sort of demands an explanation for what the new demigod level powerhouses it results in wind up going and doing. But that's not a super hard explanation (they vanished from Golarion after closing the Worldwound is perfectly valid, for example).
I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
Well, it's fairly easy to deduce what happens to them based on classes alone.
Wizards and Sorcerers (and other full Arcane Spellcasters) are on their own Demiplanes, creating infinite snocone wish machines and cheating Death. Fighters, Barbarians, and Rangers (and other typical martials) can't do that, so they're dead. Rogues and Bards are missing (the latter of which snuck a "musical tale" of their fabled travels in Bard College to pass on their lyrical torches), and Paladins and Clerics (and other Divine Spellcasters) are reborn as Outsiders in the service of their deity.
EZPZLMNSQZY
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Creative Director
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But will this be addressed should the events of adventure paths be incorporated into the 2nd edition?We're already addressing this issue in Return of the Runelords, which assumes that there are already, at the minimum, 2 high level parties of PCs out there from Rise of the Runelords AND Shattered Star. The presence of those PCs is a part of the adventure path.I don't know what about the setting's going to be changed, Paizo's been coy about that so far, but I'm fairly certainly Varisia won't have a runelord problem anymore.
That means about a dozen ~L17 folks dealt with them, and they're still around.
How's their presence going to affect the setting, and the lower level PCs? Mind, I like most of what I've seen of 2E so far (including the paladins) so am cautiously optimistic, but I'm curious just the same.
If it's appropriate for the adventure path, sure.
For the most part, that'll remain in the hands of each individual GM, since they, not us, are the experts on their own particular campaign histories.
Unless folks let us know that they'd unanimously prefer we switch from publishing interactive games to novels and the like, in which case we will then be able to control and tell stories about the main characters.
I don't see that happening, though.
As long as this whole thing remains an RPG, where the focus needs to be on the stories the players tell via their PCs, spending too much time developing elements of the setting that prevent those PCs from taking the starring role is counter-productive.
That may, for some people, forge a disconnect. For them, I guess the best advice I have is to simply assume that when a PC finishes an Adventure Path, they go into retirement and no longer want to be heroes or adventure, and/or they got themselves killed. So that the focus of the actual game play can remain on the PCs themselves.
They take the test of the Starstone.Results to be determined.
There were no survivors. Problem solved!