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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber. 174 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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It's my understanding that this might be the first in a series of connected "intro" modules akin to PF1E's "Price of Immortality" trilogy. If so, this is the "Crypt" module and characters finishing it may have a future still.

That or I'm completely wrong/mis-remembering something I heard or read about Plaguestone.

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There seems to be scant info about this upcoming adventure. Too scant! Has there been any preview or teaser, maybe something coming out of one of the 'cons? Has a monster preview slipped out or a hint about cool feats or mechanics that players might encounter?

Other than it being the firstest and bestest stand-alone adventure for 2E, what's its draw for GMs and players alike?

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James Jacobs wrote:
There are none because we don't have additional resources at the time of this Adventure Path's publication, just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. And we don't list pawns and map packs and the like as "Additional Resources" anyway.

That's not strictly true. For example, Hell's Vengeance's The Hellfire Compact (pg 91) states:

"Additional Resources To enhance the Adventure Path, GMs can pick up the following resources: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Cheliax, The Infernal Empire, Pathfinder Player Companion: Agents of Evil, Pathfinder Pawns: Hell’s Vengeance Pawn Collection , Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Hell’s Vengeance Map Folio , and Pathfinder Map Pack: Urban Sites. The Hell’s Vengeance Player’s Guide is also available as a free PDF download at"

Having seen that, and "Want More?" style recommendations in other AP guides, is what prompted me to ask. I'd have to look at other APs to see but maybe that one is just an outlier.

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@James (or anyone else with the knowledge) Is it possible to relay the "Additional Resources" recommendations for this AP as typically appears in a first book's outline section? I suppose that may describe some products not yet available (or alternatively some 1E books too?), but it would be helpful to at least know which pawns/battle minis/map packs/etc a DM might want to prepare for running the AP right away.

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Doktor Weasel wrote:
So it starts in Isger, goblin emissaries come asking for help. Some of their people who had been staying at the abandoned Hellknight Keep have stopped responding.

Uggggggh. They start with a ham-fisted "goblin emissaries" hook? I didn't have much of an opinion on this AP so far but this doesn't improve it. Why the heck would a party of do-good heroes care about a group of missing goblins at an abandoned Hellknight Keep? Ugggggh, why Paizo, why?! Please tell me I'm missing something with this.

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James Jacobs wrote:
ALL of our adventures going forward will make use of downtime and exploration modes (encounter mode is the baseline tactical combat mode). Note that these modes were utilized in every prior adventure in 1st edition as well, even though we didn't have specific names for them.

What is Age of Ashes main schtick, anyhow? Will each 2E AP feature additional themed mechanics the way 1E AP's did, such Hell's Rebel's rebellion or Crown's social combat? Is this what you're referring to when you say "downtime and exploration modes" for future adventures?

Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough but it feels like the info on this upcoming AP is slim given that the release is not so many weeks away!

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The Gold Sovereign wrote:
APs have been confirmed to go from 1-20 at PaizoCon.

Did they indicate that the same number of chapters will be used? With 20 levels to span, I might not be surprised if they went with 5 chapters instead of the more typical 6.

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Has it been mentioned (perhaps even earlier in this discussion) what the maximum PC level for the AP will be, and what sort of level range each chapter will tend to cover? A long time in the past, James mentioned a goal of having APs go 1 to 20 as a norm. Is that going to be realized?

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Tasfarel wrote:
First: In my game the Material plane bodys of the pc where helpless while their minds where located in the dreamlands. Winter kept watch over them while they where "away"

Part of the issue is that the ritual states that casters' bodies sleep but there is an unstated presumption that their minds/monadic souls are still alert and awake. This would reasonably prevent a spell such as Dream or Nightmare from triggering while the ritualized-PCs remain in that state.

Consider it another way -- if the PCs remain in the ritual form for 8 hours of material world time, should we consider them as having restfully slept and do things like HP and spells recover for them? I'd argue no, which also signals that a cognizant travel to the Dreamlands/Dimension of Dreams via the ritual (or similar means) is not the same as actual sleep.

Tasfarel wrote:
Second: Sure. The dreamland exkursion ritual is not the only way how someone can enter the dreamland. You are able to travel in person to this realm. The tricky question is: How does a Nightmare spell affects a dream-version of a character.

That is a very tricky question. In Horror Adventures, I located the following interesting bit:

"Certain spells, such as nightmare or night terrors, can cause their targets to experience nightmares. A caster of the nightmare spell can choose to ensnare her target in a nightmare dreamscape instead of allowing her target a Will save to resist the spell. If so, the caster doesn’t have much control over the nightmare dreamscape but can ensure the presence of one nightmare feature (see below) per 5 caster levels. The caster doesn’t select which nightmare features the target experiences. If the target fails to accomplish the goal of the nightmare, it suffers the spell’s effects."

This suggests one of two things

1) That a ritual-traveling PC can be shunted off to a nightmare dreamscape due to a Nightmare spell and even trapped there longer via the Night Terrors ability from which they must forcefully try to wake themselves from, or;

2) They do not count as asleep while in a ritual-sleep state and therefore aren't vulnerable to the spell until they enter a normal, non-ritual sleep at a later time.

If the former is true, the Nightmare spell and the Night Terrors ability become exceptionally powerful in this campaign. The prospect of it being applied that way during or before the finale is potentially devastating, especially since there aren't many direct protections against these spells and abilities outside of having great Will saves and ways to boost it.

Even if I'm wrong, and #1 does in fact apply, I'm inclined to still rule that only extremely powerful dreamers/casters (such as Bokrug) could manage this on a lucid dreamer traversing the Dreamlands or the Dimension itself. It just seems too disruptive and powerful otherwise, but I'd love to hear arguments to the contrary.

Tasfarel wrote:
Fifth: I guess she would be able to mark a character, allowing her to track this char in the waking world.

I'm leaning toward "no" on these peculiar circumstances as well, though nothing would stop the hag from targeting a character later when they undergo actual sleep, of course. If it is possible, the Ambassador (and other hags in the dimension) become formidable against groups that can't interact on the ethereal.

A lot of interesting things to consider here.

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Creatures with the Nightmare Template gain the Night Terrors ability.

Night Terrors requires the victim to first be affected by the templated creature's Dream or Nightmare spell, both of which have the mind-affecting and phantasm descriptors. (Nightmare also has "evil.")

However, Night Terrors provides no descriptors. Is this correct? Does it inherit the descriptors from the related spell used to activate it? Is it actually somehow not mind-affecting or phantasmal? What's the right way to rule on this?

Dreamlands visitors

How do these spells or abilities affect a target already in the Dreamlands? (i.e., is lucidly "dreaming" via an occult ritual or directly traveling to the dimension.) What does the target experience in these cases? Can a Dreamlands creature cast Nightmare on another creature in the Dreamlands? What happens?

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I have questions related to running Nightmare creatures (and the spell) in this adventure due to the Dreamlands itself.

First, with perhaps the pivotal question: are PCs considered to be dreaming while in the Dreamlands via the Dreamlands excursion occult ritual? The ritual states "doing so puts the Material Plane bodies of the casters to sleep and thrusts their psyches into the Dreamlands." How is this different from actual sleep, if it is, other than they remain alert and active as dreamers?

Second, can a creature, even one inside the Dreamlands itself, cast the Nightmare spell on a PC who is also in the Dreamlands? Can a Nightmare creature use its Night Terrors ability on a PC in a similar fashion?

Third, regarding the DC of Night Terrors, it does not list that it is mind-affecting, fear, illusion, phantasmal, evil or anything else. Do Nightmare Lords receive their Nightmare Magic bonus on this ability? I presume not, and further that players don't get any bonuses to saves for those same criteria, such as a gnome receiving a bonus due to illusion resistance. Is this correct?

Fourth, assume a Nightmare monster casts Nightmare and uses Night Terrors on a PC, all successfully. Can the other PCs use the occult ritual to enter the Dreamlands, find the tormented PC and "kill" the monster to free the victim from being trapped? Does the Nightmare spell or the Night Terrors ability end if the casting creature is killed in either the Dreamlands or in the material world? Does the person remain trapped and taking CHA damage even if the casting monster is slain anywhere?

Fifth, can a Night Hag (such as Quavendra) use her Dream Haunting ability on PCs who have already entered the Dreamlands? Would she become ethereal before their eyes and then start (ethereally or otherwise) riding one of the PC's back until dawn? How would this work? It's not really clear how this would function under these circumstances.

A lot to unpack but these have important consequences for players, so I want to understand it all better!

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Adjoint wrote:
I would compare this region to medieval Central Europe, in particular the Holy Roman Empire.

Given its proximity to Ustalav, I was considering countries just a little further east as a core influence but the HRE could make a lot of sense too.

Adjoint wrote:
For the style of Razmiran music, I'd expect the prevalance of wind instruments, notably pipe organs and horns. Main musical forms would be hymns and chorals.

Interesting take on it, though I think the more majestic organs leave too "established" a sense of music for what is still a new cult. Chants complemented by flutes or simpler hand-held instruments seem more on target. I'm worried that might give too far eastern a sensation (i.e., Tibetan, Indian, etc.) though, and I'm not sure that gives the right impression outside of it being somehow exotic.

Something more forceful might be in order, given the aggressive nature of the cult and their intimidation schemes. Maybe chanting and drums/bells/chimes? Could sound too wild and shamanistic though.

(I'm thinking of something like this.)

Adjoint wrote:
I think that mask of Razmir could become an architectual element.

Oooh, I really like this idea. It has a "cult of personality" vibe that conveys an immediate sense of things.

Adjoint wrote:
I would also take note about religious significance of stairs in Razmiran. This could lead to stairways being built in many places they are not really needed.

For PCs enduring Chapter 3 of Strange Aeons (which some of my players are), this has an eerie if only symbolic significance.

Thanks for your input, Adjoint! Very helpful!

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Regarding The Chain of Nights, it states that "the tome contains the spells ... " and lists several dream related spells. What form do these appear within the tome? Presumably the intent is that it functions as an arcane spellbook.

That brings into question Dream Travel which is a mesmerist/psychic spell, making it defunct for a spellbook listing. Are these listed spells instead considered scrolls? Should Dream Travel just be delisted? Is there something I'm missing with all this?

Beyond that, using Dream Travel could have "tricky" results in this AP. I'm imagining players who aren't risk averse attempting to use it on Lowls, or as another target, Miacknian Munn, thereby dream traveling to exit near one or the other on the material plane. Like I said, tricky. It could make sense to rule that it simply fails against Lowls, whose mind may already be transforming and out of reach of such spells. Other beings, not so much. Something to be aware about, at least.

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Razmir has only dominated the land over a handful of decades, so I'm presuming the earlier culture and styles remain largely dominant.

What historical region might Razmiran be similar too in terms of culture, decorative elements, clothing and so on? I'm particularly interested in what style of music might be prevalent, but also what might now be emerging due to the Razmiran faith and cult. Any suggestions or concepts?

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For players about to read this, note that SPOILERS lay ahead.

YogoZuno wrote:
If you read ahead, the overall finale also encourages the use of the original characters. Although it is not at all mandatory, I expect the player coolness would be reduced if they had replaced characters along the way.

I agree that at least one of the PCs should be among the original. I'd even argue that if none of the original group survive along the way, that the AP should probably be considered over with the last one's death anyhow. They aren't *all* necessary, but at least one surviving seems intrinsic given how things are driven from chapter 4 onward.

That said, with a little extra work and narrative it's entirely possible to maintain the story's horror and impact without the original PCs. There may even be an added element of terror for new characters encountering chapter 3's finale as the originals come back to have a word or two with them.

I'll even throw a twist on it -- imagine if the DM allowed PCs who defeated their earlier counterparts to act as a "host body" for the defeated dreamland's PC "spirit," thereby reviving that original PC going forward (but losing some or all of the "host" PC as well). Later on, throw in a madness that occasionally suppresses one personality or another for even more RP fun.

There's all sorts of delightful things that can be done to keep things moving along.

Tasfarel wrote:
I did not want to imply that these encounters are too difficult and you should leave them out. I just wanted to point out that a GM should be prepared to intervene if players are too bold or to careless in their approach.

In this AP, if you're having to intervene as the DM you've potentially failed your duty to the PCs who are carelessly approaching a damning situation. Foreshadowing is SOOO necessary to create dread and horror (in both PCs and players alike) but also to give players a chance to help their PCs survive encounters that are likely to kill them.

And then the situations should play out as they are, at full danger and lethality. It's so rewarding for players when they overcome what seemed like certain doom.

For my players, as one example, I'd dropped subtle hints of the revenant as early as mid-Chapter 1, so around 6 sessions worth of growing buildup and foreshadowing. Before the full melee with the monster, I also initiated a brief encounter that by now filled them with terrible alarm--the players completely understood how dangerous it was and how likely its targets were to die when it would finally catch up to them. The resulting tension was fantastic. After they defeated it in a harrowing battle and without any deaths, the sense of relief and accomplishment was exhilarating for them all.

I'd wager that this encounter ranks in the top 3 for them throughout the AP and would have been critically deflated if I'd intervened to save them or blunt the result in some way.

Tasfarel wrote:
But after all it comes down to the playstyle your group´s preferring.

While this is true, it also comes down to choosing the right AP and adventures that match a particular group's playstyle. Not all groups will fit all adventures, and Strange Aeons is less suitable for many because of its themes, nature and native difficulty.

My group is also very (very) focused on the plot but we all see the challenges as inseparable from it. The beating heart behind this plot is the overwhelming danger and continued desperation against alien forces as experienced by the PCs. Dulling any of that dulls the plot, as we see it.

And in case it isn't clear, all of this is just my opinion and outlook on the AP. It's entirely fine and welcome for others to view and play it different. There's more than one way to skin a yellow-robed cat.

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reflactions wrote:

Not sure if someone else answered this, but this shouldn't be an issue because Daelene is a sorceror of the psychic bloodline. "Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells."

While that really is a great catch, the issue is that psychic spells still give off manifestations which alert others. It's called out in this FAQ as a means to prevent "spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation."

They do mention future abilities (such as Cunning Caster) that might help someone get away with this sort of thing, but they also suggest that even with boons to conceal the casting, a check is always possible. Regardless, I can't verify at the moment but I don't think Daelene has anything to aid her in this way against PCs at Iris Hill.

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Tasfarel wrote:
Risi is a pain in the ass, as it is the revenant. Both encounters can easily kill of one character. The lack of resurrection spells in that town make this even worth.

I'm not sure why you would characterize Risi and the revenant this way in view of the campaign itself. For that matter, there are challenges even later into the AP that PCs *definitely* won't survive if they make the wrong choice or even have lingering bouts of indecision. These are exceptional threats, yes, but they're designed to be. It's a Lovecraftian-styled AP, after all.

As such, hero deaths to things that can't be recovered from fits comfortably into the theme. This ain't your Rise of the Runelords.

Somehow, my players escaped harrowing doom with both Risi and the revenant, but only because doses of luck and quick thinking came together to make it possible. Each case brought someone within a hair's breadth of the grave. It's SO memorable because of that, however. After the survival-horror that was Chapter 1, and the sort of surprise-doom being thrown at them in Chapter 2, they realize they are never safe in this AP and death awaits around every foggy corner.

That said, anyone intending to run this AP should warn players that it is a more challenging path that will probably result in the deaths of at least some PCs along the way. If the group doesn't like that, they probably don't really enjoy the Lovecraftian themes of overwhelming struggle and terror either, and it isn't the best AP to play anyhow. It loses a lot of its impact and the sense of reward if its dangers are toned down.

This is all my humble opinion, of course.

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Doppleman wrote:

"A creature bearing the unholy symbol of Hastur can make use of the following effects."

The book reads:

"The Star Stelae in Thrushmoor are partially operational and
provide the following benefits to any creature bearing an
unholy symbol of Hastur—the Yellow Sign."

I take it to mean that the symbol would have to be adequate for use in casting spells. If it's inaccurate enough to be incapable of that, it also wouldn't work for the Star Stela. The symbol need not be magical on its own. It might just be some carved wooden representation of the symbol that would also prove useful as a divine spellcaster's unholy device.

I also interpret the text as meaning that the character must bear the symbol in a fashion similar to when casting spells, so that it is openly displayed at the time of activation. Wearing the symbol around the neck or carrying it in a pocket isn't good enough.

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For the moment, I just wanted to remark that the art introducing the bestiary section (pg. 80) featuring Tsathoggua, "Saint Toad," is eye-popping and gripping.

What a depiction of the helplessness and horror of encountering such a malevolent monstrosity! HEINOUS and WONDERFUL!

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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I had 4 different people at Gen Con tell me that they had me show up at game tables in their dreams, telling them about rules or sending them into peril...

<Walks up to Gen Con gaming table> "I already killed you. Why aren't you dead?!" --Jason "Tatterman" Bulmahn

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NobodysHome wrote:

Inspire Courage would work fine, because it is a competence bonus. Ditto Inspire Competence.

That's right, I always forget that part of Inspire's buff is a competence bonus and not just morale.

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Am I missing something about Rumatri? She's an undead bard who casts heroism on herself? Is her bardic performance able to work on her somehow too?

(I suspect neither case is true and this is some strange oversight on the author's part?)

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ElSilverWind wrote:
I don’f understand how I’m meant to give feedback on Undead minions if I can’t make any.

You can control several minions (up to 4) using the Bind Undead spell. There's plenty of room for giving feedback on minions, which is exactly why they didn't include the Create/Animate spells in the playtest yet. They wanted to know more about how minions worked in play first.

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Dracovar wrote:

What I see playing out now on the Paizo boards is exactly what I saw on Wizards Boards when WotC released the dumpster fire that was 4e. Right down to the boosters and detractors, the tone of the posts, underlying bitterness and hope, etc. The seeds of an edition war have been sown, really.

This happens with every major edition. It always looks like a dumpster fire. There's always some edition war mongering. There is nothing new or extraordinary about this.

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Leedwashere wrote:
It specifically calls out in In Search of Sanity that any animal companions, familiars, phantoms, eidolons, or whatevers also suffer the same fugue state as the character they serve. So there's no problem to be had. I have a spiritualist in my game. Her phantom is extremely dedicated to her (zeal) but remembers nothing specific.

While that's absolutely true, in my view it strains the story's verisimilitude considering the ultimate how and why of the fugue state. (Not that players or the PCs will encounter this verisimilitude breaking angle until later, but that doesn't make it any better.)

I handled things by taking the fugue state a step further, in that the PCs were different classes before the events that led to the fugue state. That is, the "wipe out" wasn't just of their memories but actually "clean slated" them to an even greater degree. This allows for things like having a pre-fugue antipaladin who "wakes" as a paladin instead.

This also means that characters can attract an animal companion or phantom or whatever after the campaign begins without treading on plausibility or ever evoking the question of what those companions know.

(NOTE: My players trusted me to develop their backstory absent their knowledge before the game began. They didn't even know their names at the start, and were only familiar with the core parts of the starting characters they'd created. They've had a lot of exciting revelations as they learn about what horrible people they were before the fugue state! It's been amazing so far.)

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For all of the Lovecraftian lore/critters, I've been increasing the DC by +10. I'll ease the DC by 5 during Chapter 3, once they've studied Lowls's books and venture into the dreamy beyond on the Sellen. Alongside I've encouraged them to do research and investigation in order to uncover the things they're up against.

That said, I handled the painting in the Old Grotto a bit different. I allowed them all a check (with the increased DC applied), but regardless of their result, upon seeing it I had all PCs experience a probing sensation in their mind that repeated the words, "Xhamen-Dor. Xhamen-Dor. Xhamen-Dor."

I explained that they instantly knew that it was the name of the creature depicted even though they couldn't understand how. None made a knowledge check high enough to know anything further, but they did have to make sanity checks. They were positively horrified at this event, and very wary of the painting and chamber thereafter.

Since then, I've been including flashes of this awareness in their dreams, but I'm also going to have them experience moments where their mind has strange and compelling thoughts about Xhamen-Dor, including receiving fragments of information they couldn't have possibly known from elsewhere. This is, of course, meant to demonstrate how their minds have become infected by the mere knowing of this other-worldly monstrosity.

I'll let this "infection" build in intensity until they deal with Neruzavin.

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Regarding my group's approach to the fort: the PCs hadn't done much investigation and had little idea what to expect.

They levitated up the northeastern wall and were discovered by the mercenary guards. As a result of their ignorance, the nature of the mercenaries (and the ooze) deflated their offensive response. Magic missiles and unsuitable weapons were the cause of much cursing. The struggle disintegrated until two PCs collapsed and the remaining two slipped away with those unconscious allies in tow, but only just barely.

The PCs seem intent on taking a similar approach for their next assault, prepared with more ideal weapons and spells, but the fort still has a few tricks for receiving them.

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What mode are most of you finding that players take to infiltrate Fort Hailcourse? I'm curious whether players are opting to go up the walls, one way or another, and end up dealing with the tougher scenario up there or instead opt to burst through the front door (or otherwise enter there).

How has the choice of entrance gone for your players?

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I'm finding APs take about 220 to 240 hours for my groups and, depending on schedule and consistency, that's working out to around 10 to 12 months of steady play.

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For my part, I decided that Debis could see in the darkness and added an additional effect: the darkness spreads as if it were some sort of inky, entwining substance that fills the area beyond the initial chamber. This allowed Debis to threaten the space beyond and created a pressure to the situation that forced the players to make quick decisions.

As might be expected, this slow spreading terrified most of the group, especially since they hadn't resolved the "hemorrhagic road" and they knew exactly what happened if someone tried to cross it. One of the PCs entered the darkness hoping to do battle or learn more and soon discovered that she got more than she bargained for with Debis.

As things went poorly, the prospect of battling some unknown specterfrom within the darkness rattled all of them, and they sprinted around the growing cloud seeking the relative safety of the southern hall.

This retreat soon led them back to the asylum's central section and Administrator Losandro's office.

In her office I added the two chess knights (rather than having them in the brothers' former room) along with notes of a junior doctor that detailed the pair's history, their medical journey, as well as the shadow lamp gift.

Having let the players see Brenton playing with the lamp much earlier made this discovery profound for them. After finishing their exploration of the central segment (and realizing the danger of the blood-dripped door), they returned to trade with Brenton.

When they return in an upcoming session, the doors to Debis's chamber will be closed again and the dayroom will be much as they encountered it before discovering Debis, though I've got a little more of a surprise waiting for them when they do.

Nonetheless, using Debis's Nightmare room as a gate feels like an ideal approach, even if it has to be played up beyond the initial limits in order to nudge PCs back to other areas. It should be dangerous and terrifying but also demonstrates that these otherwise horrible situations can be resolved with investigation and research rather than brute force in the more typical adventure fashion.

I'm looking forward to watching them deal with the northern sections!

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Paladinosaur wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Only Wrath of the Righteous and Return of the Runelords have officially gone to 20. Neither of the hardcovers have.
But wasn't it mentioned somewhere that the goal is that all the 2E APs go to 20?

Yes it was.

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John John wrote:
In my houserules when I am using automatic level progression, I ban almost all remaining items that give numeric bonuses and apply the 50% rule the remaining half of the wealth by level (since wbl is halved in automatic level progression).

Are you saying that you instead reduce WBL to 25% and let anyone craft anything as long as it seems do-able?

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
I'm interested in this, but I'm weird. I do population demographics by level analyses.

Hold on, hold on ... that's weird?

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We've been told that PF2 will include a downtime system as part of the core rules, but we've heard next to nothing about how it would function, how crafting and character wealth has been re-balanced inside the new rules, or how the basic economies of settlements and adventuring will operate mechanically in 2E.

Is no one else curious about this sort of stuff? It seems like no one is pondering on any of it.

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I'm curious how others handled the Debis Lieklan encounter. The room he's in is saturated in a deeper darkness that presumably doesn't extend beyond the room's dimensions.

At the same time, Debis, as an attic whisperer, has darkvision. This isn't enough to perceive anything within or through the room's deeper darkness, however, which creates something of a tactical issue for the encounter.

How did you run this? Did you use perception checks by Debis (and presumably by the PCs) to locate targets for initiating attacks? Did you have Debis exit the darkness to attack PCs in the blood river room? Did you do something else entirely?

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Mudfoot wrote:

Allowing a single character to cast 2 spells in a round is no worse than allowing 2 characters to each cast 1 spell in a round. You can still pull off the same nerf-SoD combo, but it's simply that it takes fewer people to do it. And as that's the whole basis of the OP suggestion (smaller parties) what's the problem?

You could potentially have three characters casting 2 spells per round that way, moving it closer to the effect 6 characters could generate instead. It would also magnify the power level of spellcasters compared to melee types, possibly by quite a bit.

Having the 4th act available for simple actions is still potent -- it's the equivalent of permanent haste for PCs.

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Planpanther wrote:
Midnight Anarch wrote:
gwynfrid wrote:
That's a big change. The economy is designed around 3 actions. Spells are a good example, if you can cast 2 of your highest level spells in round 1 of the fight, the outcome will be altered decisively.

Easy solution: the 4th act can only be used for simple actions.

eh, isnt that getting back into classifying actions territory again?

Pretty sure it's already going to function that way: simple actions, complex actions. (The Unchained action system with some improvements.)

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gwynfrid wrote:
That's a big change. The economy is designed around 3 actions. Spells are a good example, if you can cast 2 of your highest level spells in round 1 of the fight, the outcome will be altered decisively.

Easy solution: the 4th act can only be used for simple actions.

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James Hebert wrote:
This was spooky for her in the first book, to see the world around her change on occasion, but I'm looking for ways to crank it up a bit.

Seems you didn't get much help but I can't help to wonder what you conjured up for her curse during Thrushmoor? Did you incorporate encounters with the mysterious graffiti in any way?

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Azothath wrote:

It's undefined in PF thus not RAW and out of scope. So the RAW answer is "No". I understand the desire but in this forum that's the answer. Again, level, HD, and CR are not 0 indexed, they are generally natural numbers with a minimum of 1 (CRs are the exception).

Actually, Mark has already stated that caster level is 0 indexed. The discussion erupted from the rule that stated a Medium's caster level could be decreased to a minimum of 0.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Spellcasters first gain access to cantrips, orisons, and knacks at 1st-level caster level (if they gain them at all).

They actually gain the cantrips/orison/knacks class feature.

Many of these minor magics don't rely on caster level at all. In earlier days, prestidigitation was a cantrip employed by magicians, along with sleight of hand, to produce crowd-pleasing effects despite not being actual spellcasters. It's literally a minor magic used by novices to learn how to cast.

Mark Seifter wrote:
What do you think makes a caster level high enough for the spell in question?

Minimally, two things -- the caster level must be at least equal to the spell in question (and often higher than that), the caster must have a minimum score in the associated casting stat.

For cantrips, historically speaking, the caster level appears to be 0. That is to say, you don't need a higher caster level to use them. They are used by non-casters who are learning to become spellcasters for this reason. Caster level-0 is essentially a non-caster, and minor magics are their peak capability. Arguably, someone with a 10 in the casting stat could also use cantrips but nothing more potent.

Azothath wrote:
IMO once a spellcaster hits Zero spell caster level, he has no appreciable spellcasting ability left.

You're right that in previous editions, minor magics couldn't be cast infinite times. That's why I remarked that PF/3.0 seem to have elevated them somewhat, at least in terms of accessibility. They also took some 1st level spells and made them into minor magics instead, so in some cases, the overall power level of cantrips increased too.

Nonetheless, having a caster level of 0 is to have no appreciable spellcasting ability. Cantrips are considered to be within that tier of casting -- enough for an apprentice or commoner to use as entertainment or for practice, but little more. We have lost the more limited per day use of them, but I think the principle still stands for what they represent.

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Mark Seifter wrote:

PRD wrote:
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
I believe this is the only relevant rules-text. So I would say, there isn't any direct text that fully explains what this means, but clearly it must mean something.

It means that a 10th level wizard can choose to cast a fireball as though he were 5th level instead, perhaps to do less damage to allies caught within it. It means that he can't cast it lower than 5th since that is the minimum caster level required to cast fireball.

Mark Seifter wrote:
If a wizard can't cast 1st-level spells with a caster level of 0 (and I fully believe that is true),

This is true ...

Mark Seifter wrote:
then there's no way you would be able to cast cantrips/orisons/knacks either

This does not follow from the first part. Cantrips, orisons and knacks are minor magics, not first level spells.

Traditionally, they were considered as 1/4th of real spell -- you literally could trade a 1st level slot to gain 4 cantrips in its place. Bulmahn describes them (in the CRB) as magic "so inconsequential that a spellcaster might cast it without limit." This is the sort of minor magic that wizard apprentices or youthful acolytes would train themselves with as they sought to become real casters. We're talking about "0-level" casters using them as toys or tools, things that are magic but not fully realized spells. (PF/3.0 has seemed to view them as more powerful than earlier editions, however.)

The idea that being incapable of casting 1st level spells also makes cantrips uncastable goes against the entire history of them.

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avr wrote:
Claxon's view is backed up by the cost of items of zero level spells - a minimum caster level of 1 gets plugged into the item cost formula.

It says:

rules wrote:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level.

and more generally

rules wrote:
While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.

Hypothetically, a CL 0 potion of Resistance could be made as it's high enough to cast the stored spell. There doesn't appear to be a declaration that a CL of 1 is required to cast CL 0 spells, not anywhere I can locate. The limiting factor would be spells that have a variable dependent on CL in the first place. (e.g., the light spell's duration of 10 minutes/level versus daze which has no level dependent requirements.)

Why would they also declare the Medium's champion influence penalty as lowering caster level to a minimum of 0 unless it somehow mattered that it wasn't lower? The implication is that knacks remain accessible but other casting is not.

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If a medium suffers a caster level penalty from taking too much influence with a champion spirit and has her caster level reduced to the minimum of 0, can she still cast knacks? Or at least knacks that don't have some sort of variable dependent on caster level such as duration? (e.g., daze, mage hand, sift)

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Arachnofiend wrote:
They take the test of the Starstone. Results to be determined.

There were no survivors. Problem solved!

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YogoZuno wrote:
If I recall, there are a couple of Lesser Restoration items available in the Chapel, if searched. Also, I hope someone trained the Heal skill...

As parties are prone to having psychic casters in this AP, it's worth reminding about the occult skill unlocks.

Faith healing (heal) can suppress ability damage and afflictions, even potentially removing something with a really strong check.

Read Aura can learn if someone is poisoned or diseased. It won't tell more than that, but it's at least a start for some groups.

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james014Aura wrote:
Most of this sounds reasonable, but why does Weakness add a fixed amount? Scratch damage shouldn't get magnified so much.

I agree: have it do X extra damage or an amount equal to the attack, whichever is less.

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Yewstance wrote:
I don't expect to see more than minor content updates. Development has all but stalled, and I suspect they may have lost a developer or two, or at least been pulled to other projects. Presumably the game was not sufficiently financially viable.

Undoubtedly, digital-PACG has been back-burner'd while they zoomed toward the POE2 release. It's looking quite successful, so hopefully they'll be paying the bills for a long time to come.

I was hoping it might mean something in the wind for PACG. Maybe we'll hear something from GenCon on it as other things bounce around with the "new" ACG/Crimson release.

Yewstance wrote:
They've also made clear they do not intend to recreate any other Adventure Path in the digital game, as Obsidian has clarified in blog posts. If they ever were to recreate, say, Skull and Shackles, they'd do so in a new videogame.

I'm fine with that, sort of. Hopefully they'll provide for, or allow, characters from the first to cross into whatever other AP products they make. As long as they keep making stuff like APs and character packs for it, I'll keep buying.

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What's the future of the digital ACG look like? It sorely needs a new AP and additional characters in general. The goblin stuff just isn't cutting it.

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Immunity to fear grants immunity to a haunt's direct effects. For those who employed Horror Adventure fear rules in this AP, how did you
handle haunts when it came to the question of things like Paladin immunity to fear, Protection from Evil (where applicable) and Remove Fear spells? (I'm referring to games where there are no stark immunities as typical, for example.)

Did you grant bonuses or some other boon to those players vs. the haunts' effects? Did you ignore those wards entirely and just played the haunts straight? What worked well and what would you have done different in handling the Strange Aeons haunts?

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