And I agree Set, I think Vision will be rebooted sans mind stone. The question will be if his emotions are intact.
Didn't WALL-E already do that ending?
And this Vision-ary discussion made my brain go here.
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And I agree Set, I think Vision will be rebooted sans mind stone. The question will be if his emotions are intact.Didn't WALL-E already do that ending?
Heh. More to the point Marvel comics has done that plotline.
Thanks for getting that in my head, Wei Ji. :)
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Is this what anyone else thought of when Drax demonstrated his talent for invisibility?
And I agree Set, I think Vision will be rebooted sans mind stone. The question will be if his emotions are intact.Didn't WALL-E already do that ending?Heh. More to the point Marvel comics has done that plotline.
Thanks for getting that in my head, Wei Ji. :)
You're welcome!
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Is this what anyone else thought of when Drax demonstrated his talent for invisibility?
Nope, I thought of Mystery Men.
Is this what anyone else thought of when Drax demonstrated his talent for invisibility?
If anyone stays dusted I feel Drax should go. He demonstrates none of the skill and power of his comic version(even in Riddick mode! Come on guys) and gets owned constantly, even by Strange's cloak of levitation. Nebula would be a better replacement.
Well, saw it at last.
As an action movie, it did its job.
As a payoff where "you all of these people so we can skip most of the character development and get to the explosions," it worked.
But man, when it bent over backwards trying to make me feel feelings? Nope.
When you kill off most of the Guardians of All Of The Money, we know it's not sticking.
Basically, when your deaths consist entirely of either Johnny-Come-Lately characters we've barely gotten to care about, characters whose meaningful arcs are complete, or characters who we know have sequels announced for their films?
You're not going to wring much emotion out of me that way.
It also didn't help that the major "feel sad and/or moved now" beats were so forced it was galling. When the movie has a character agonize over a hard choice and my response is "GET ON WITH IT" every single time? Something is off.
Large chunks of the plot felt like Wrestling Booking 101.
But it was nice to see Thor finally getting to be the big gun, and Shuri was awesome in her small bit, M'Baku made about ONE line give me warm fuzzies the rest of the film failed to do, and all carping aside, Thanos was pretty well-executed overall.
Now I feel like s&#$.
Why?
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Now I feel like s&#$.Why?
Because lots of likable characters got killed and the bag guy wins?
Yes some of it will definitely be undone in the next movie, but it doesn’t change the fact that it happened in the first place. Plus there’s no telling who all comes back.
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I get feeling wrecked by the end of the movie. It is a valid way to feel.
As an additional perspective, however: I feel weirdly hopeful---more than I did at the end of Civil War. Civil War it just seemed like everything fell apart because of everyone's stubbornness and stupidity (and really, all sides were wrong, IMO, one way or the other), and the bandaid message at the end really didn't make up for it. I was mad at everyone and there seemed no good way forward.
No argument: the end of this movie is utterly horrifying at the ramifications--beyond merely likeable characters, 50% of the entire universe just died. But yet it is SO extreme--the only direction to go is up. So it has to get better. And Thanos no longer has the power of the now-damaged gauntlet to sustain the awfulness. Furthermore, no one has any reason to do anything other than their best at working together as a team, so for at least a little while, there's less purposeless pigheaded tomfoolery (note: less, not none; I know what some of these characters are like, after all). So I see direction for the story to go in, whereas I didn't before, and now I have waaaaaay more reasons to root for everyone than I have in awhile.
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I went in there exactly knowing it would be a brutal ending, and that Thano's would win, cause, in the comics, for the first part he does win. Almost effortlessly. So I concentrated my enjoyment on the Visuals and the humour.
The next movie, however, I really have no idea..that is an awesome state to be in, can't wait to see how it all plays out. I will definitely be avoiding the internet when it comes out next year, do not want to be spoiled even in the slightest.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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At this point, I have five thoughts:
1) I was surprised we *didn't* see Adam Warlock in this movie, perhaps as a mid-credits scene.
2) I prefer the comics' motivation for Thanos -- killing half the galaxy as a tribute to appease the personification of death. This "overpopulation of every planet" motivation is weaker. Ra's al ghul has done that schtick.
3) The Red Skull is my new go-to example of gratuitous cameos. And his transformation into the Soul Gem's guardian raises more questions, which will never be answered.
4) I agree with most posters here, vaping characters like Spider-man and the Black Panther was a mistake. Up until that point, I was ready to accept the deaths of characters as permanent.
5) The after-credits scene is weird. In a movie where there are 20 major good guys, do we need to see Nick Fury calling in a brand new one? (And tails, she's dead anyway.)
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I felt like the choice of characters who were dusted being all of the new ones with obvious sequels coming (or announced) was a breaking the 4th wall explicit cue to the audience that things will be undone in some fashion in Avengers 4. For me, that's a feature, not a bug.
Also, since we know things will be undone, and the Time stone is in play, we don't know how far back things can be re-winded. While the characters killed before the dusting are more likely dead, there's really no reason they couldn't come back as well.
This is not intended as a slight of Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel, I really just don't understand how her appearance in the next movie is expected to be any kind of game changer.
I mean, isn't she kind of a generically powerful character? Massively strong, highly invulnerable, can fly at Mach 6, can shoot blasts of power. Doesn't that describe half the heroes Thanos just took out in groups? What unique thing does Captain Marvel bring to the table, other than showing up after the Gauntlet is no longer in play?
I'm asking so I can try to understand the "Hell, yeah!" reaction to the post-credit scene.
We do not know yet what kind of power Captain Marvel will have. Yes she will most likeley have her comic power set and even without her energy absorption she would be one of the most powerful heroes. And more powerful than Thor in his fight with Thanos could be dificult to explain^^.
But I do not think she will show up and all is well. I am more thinking that she was Fury's last ace just to call in a really dire situation. And bringing one more hero into that is not a bad idea.
Hope they explain why he did not call her during the Chitauri invasion for example^^
And the hell yeah reaction was for me that Fury has this last plan for the real big emergency and that Captain Marvel is finally getting into the MCU.
@Chris
Which makes no sense for Death in any event. All people who aren't supers will die one day so all she has to do is wait.
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2) I prefer the comics' motivation for Thanos -- killing half the galaxy as a tribute to appease the personification of death. This "overpopulation of every planet" motivation is weaker. Ra's al ghul has done that schtick.
I find villains who believe they are doing the right thing far more convincing than one who is just doing something stupid. And killing people for death, who as someone else said is fine with just waiting till it's peoples' time, is stupid. I would never have taken Thanos seriously if he was "doing it all for love."
This Thanos, I didn't think his plan was a good idea (of course) but they sold why he believed he was being a savior, not a destroyer, and I liked that arc a good deal.
3) The Red Skull is my new go-to example of gratuitous cameos. And his transformation into the Soul Gem's guardian raises more questions, which will never be answered.
For me it finally explained what the Tesseract had done with him and closed a loop, not opened one.
4) I agree with most posters here, vaping characters like Spider-man and the Black Panther was a mistake. Up until that point, I was ready to accept the deaths of characters as permanent.
I wouldn't call it a mistake, but it does make it clear they don't plan on keeping the results of this ending.
5) The after-credits scene is weird. In a movie where there are 20 major good guys, do we need to see Nick Fury calling in a brand new one? (And tails, she's dead anyway.)
You seem to be assuming Fury read the script (besides, as we know, Marvel didn't let anyone read the full script except Dr. Strange ;) ). Fury had no idea where any of the heroes were. Stark and Spider-Man had officially disappeared and it was reported Stark was still missing, and Cap's team is off the radar. Wakanda is remote and even if it isn't a secret anymore, wasn't exactly broadcasting the events there. As far as he knew most of the good guys were already missing, dead, or both. Further, the events happening were even much bigger than the Chitauri invasion, something the Avengers only barely succeeded in driving back, so he knew "just" the Avengers wasn't going to cut it for this.
So yes, he's going to call in the, "in an extreme space-related emergency, press the Big Red Button" because from his POV he may have no one else of sufficient power to count on. I am assuming Carol is in space doing crucial things so they would try to do everything possible to help themselves before calling her in, and would only call her if it was really, really, really, really hitting the fan. Which it was in this movie.
He also had no idea about the 50% of the universe poofing. He just saw chaos happening on a global scale and mentioned calling "Code Red" before Maria disappeared.
(And the "what if she's gone anyway"? question: if you subscribe to the theory that the Mind Stone is actually choosing who dies, and this is Dr. Strange's plan to win based on the one successful outcome he saw, then the Mind Stone probably spared Carol anyway.
We do not know yet what kind of power Captain Marvel will have. Yes she will most likeley have her comic power set and even without her energy absorption she would be one of the most powerful heroes. And more powerful than Thor in his fight with Thanos could be dificult to explain^^.
But I do not think she will show up and all is well. I am more thinking that she was Fury's last ace just to call in a really dire situation. And bringing one more hero into that is not a bad idea.
This is not intended as a slight of Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel, I really just don't understand how her appearance in the next movie is expected to be any kind of game changer.
Here's where it starts sounding like a slight after all...
I mean, isn't she kind of a generically powerful character? Massively strong, highly invulnerable, can fly at Mach 6, can shoot blasts of power. Doesn't that describe half the heroes Thanos just took out in groups? What unique thing does Captain Marvel bring to the table, other than showing up after the Gauntlet is no longer in play?
I'm asking so I can try to understand the "Hell, yeah!" reaction to the post-credit scene.
Kevin Feige confirmed that Captain Marvel is the most powerful hero in the Marvel Cinematic universe.
With Captain Marvel, she is as powerful a character as we’ve ever put in a movie. Her powers are off the charts, and when she’s introduced, she will be by far the strongest character we’ve ever had.
Remember that okay and pretty darn fun but not stellar movie that came out back in November, where the warrior demigoddess and the lord of the sea and the reallyreally fast dude and the supersmart tech-guy detective and the half-man half-spaceship were all really powerful but they were still having trouble fighting off the apocalyptic dude from space, and they said, "Dude, even as powerful as we are, we need the guy who flies and shoots laser beams and is really really invulnerable and strong?"
Now this is happening in the MCU, but with somewhat better writing and a lot more buildup. The already powerful heroes have taken some serious losses, so, "generic" powers or no, they are indeed bringing in the gal who flies and shoots laser beams and is really really invulnerable and strong because that is what they need right now.
And "hell yeah" because CAROL.F%@!ING.DANVERS.
Or to paraphrase someone else, "In real life a fighter pilot recently showed enough chill to be able to safely land a passenger plane when its engine had just exploded. If our fighter pilots in real life are this badass, one that has superpowers is going to be f@%$ing amazing."
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Good to know. 2019 can not come fast enough. First to finally see her movie and after that how they get out of the mess after Infinity War^^
And Captain Marvel being so powerful is something that started in the 80s with her Binary power set. So it is not something that was invented for her recent comics or the movie.
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Good to know. 2019 can not come fast enough. First to finally see her movie and after that how they get out of the mess after Infinity War^^
Indeed. (Plus we also see Nick and Coulson again in her movie, so yay.)
That too.
But is the world ready for a younger Nick Fury looking like Jules ^^?
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That too.
But is the world ready for a younger Nick Fury looking like Jules ^^?
"Do they have kryptonite in What?!"
Totally down with that. Also, Carol Danvers' film may well be where Nick Fury has the one eye damaged. ;)
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Yeah, I don't really want Danvers/Marvel trying to do any pseudo-Adam Warlock gem stuff. That can be Vision's and Gamora's job.
I want Danvers' backstory for Avengers 4 to be that the Skrull Empire wasn't available to hire/bribe for Loki's invasion of Earth because the Skrulls were too damn busy defending themselves from Captain Marvel. I want to see that "Oh, sh!t" realization cross Thanos' face just before Danvers shows up to start pounding the living sh!t out of him, especially after the Soul Gem seemed to think his abusive, controlling, gas-lighting paternal relationship with Gamora somehow qualified as love. [SWEARY RANT CENSORED] I want the slug fest televised on MCU televisions across the world, so little girls (and boys) in the MCU can have a new female hero to look up to.
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First, this was the shortest two and half hour movie I have ever seen. Second, I really liked the movie. I really enjoyed Thor and "Rabbit" in the film. I will agree that having a villain with at least reasonable viewpoint was pretty important in my enjoyment of the movie. I am planning to watch the movie again there seems to be details that I missed.
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Yeah, I don't really want Danvers/Marvel trying to do any pseudo-Adam Warlock gem stuff. That can be Vision's and Gamora's job.
I want Danvers' backstory for Avengers 4 to be that the Skrull Empire wasn't available to hire/bribe for Loki's invasion of Earth because the Skrulls were too damn busy defending themselves from Captain Marvel. I want to see that "Oh, sh!t" realization cross Thanos' face just before Danvers shows up to start pounding the living sh!t out of him, especially after the Soul Gem seemed to think his abusive, controlling, gas-lighting paternal relationship with Gamora somehow qualified as love. [SWEARY RANT CENSORED] I want the slug fest televised on MCU televisions across the world, so little girls (and boys) in the MCU can have a new female hero to look up to.
Yeah, after all Feige did say that Danvers is the most powerful hero in the MCU bar none.
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Oh man now I want to see a slugfest between her and Thor.
Sick and tired of seeing the Good Guys beating each other up.
I wanna see Thanos with a semi-functioning Gauntlet getting tag-teamed by Danvers, Thor and Banner-Hulk after he does whatever horrible things are going on prior to the Grand Slobberknocker at the end of Avengers 4.
And the "what if she's gone anyway"? question: if you subscribe to the theory that the Mind Stone is actually choosing who dies, and this is Dr. Strange's plan to win based on the one successful outcome he saw, then the Mind Stone probably spared Carol anyway.
I'm thinking this is a big possibility. Dr. Strange wan't trying to "win" that fight, but manipulate either the stones, or the universe, just enough to ensure that the correct combination of heroes would survive who could take on Thanos and the now-damaged gauntlet. Thanos had to sacrifice everything in order to win, otherwise he'd have too many resources available win any fight.
Assuming Dr. Strange comes back, he explains what he saw and how it had to play it out. Then someone asks if he knew Thanos would lose all along, and he'll give another astronomical figure of how many potential outcomes there still were, but he just had to have faith.
/Frodo
"But why didn't Strange SlingRing his arm off?"
Kevin Feige confirmed that Captain Marvel is the most powerful hero in the Marvel Cinematic universe.
Huh. <scratches head> Well, okay, then. Had no idea.
Edit: Perhaps the earlier trailers were not misdirection ... but snippets from Avengers 4? Did some of the earlier trailers have different details than what is on-screen in Avengers 3?
Some of the details were different. For example, Hulk was in the Battle of Wakanda, suggesting that this was either misdirection or they chose to introduce the "reluctant Hulk" storyline and put Banner in the Hulkbuster in pick-ups and editing (since it mostly involved just switching out the CGI).
I mean, isn't she kind of a generically powerful character? Massively strong, highly invulnerable, can fly at Mach 6, can shoot blasts of power. Doesn't that describe half the heroes Thanos just took out in groups? What unique thing does Captain Marvel bring to the table, other than showing up after the Gauntlet is no longer in play?
She's the Marvel Universe's Superman, and has a lot of powers at once whilst most Marvel heroes have one or two things they do and then tons of things they don't. Scarlet Witch is arguably more powerful in the comics, but she's seriously nerfed in the movies. Dr. Strange has arguably access to more power, but through external sources like the Time Stone. On-screen her only match might be Thor, although that's more down to the fact that Thor's powers and abilities are kind of vague and seem to have levelled up considerably from movie to movie.
Side-note: if Asgardians can survive in the vacuum of space for hours or maybe days, that means they don't need to breathe regularly. So choking Loki shouldn't have killed him. Maybe Loki was faking it?
For me it finally explained what the Tesseract had done with him and closed a loop, not opened one.
It opens things up in the sense that if the Infinity Stones are destroyed, Red Skull can be released and become a villain again (although without Captain America that might be weird, but in the comics Red Skull is also an enemy of Black Panther and Bucky as well). That was actually a plot point in the original AVENGERS script before Joss Whedon rewrote it, so Marvel have always planned for Red Skull to return.
It also helps their poor villain roster. They won't have access to the X-Men/Fantastic Four universe villains for a few years, and they may be cautious in employing Spider-Man's villains in case Sony pull the licence, so they really need access to the more notable enemies like Red Skull.
@Werthead: I think it was more than choking. It looked more like a family friendly version of breaking his neck to me
I think the "team shot" in the trailers with Hulk was shot for the trailers, so as not to spoil his storyline. And to give folks an iconic team-look to screen cap for advertising purposes.
My sense of Loki's death scene was that Thanos utterly crushed him to death--it's more than simply asphyxiation, the bones and windpipe in his neck were turned to pulp.
I like the idea of a Red Skull return down the line for a future movie. Marvel is finally doing better with its villains, and some decent recurring ones would be nice.
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Its been years since I read Marvel comics, but I don't recall Captain Marvel/Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers having anything like Superman's power level, not even compared to other Marvel characters. Maybe you meant that she has a great diversity of powers, as Superman does? Or maybe my information is just out of date?
She started out with a variation on Superman's powers, but far lower.
Theoretically, they were supposed to be like Mar-Vell's powers, but he also had inconsistent powers (solar fueled strength, flight and energy absorption from his nega-bands, cosmic awareness granted later by a cosmic entity), and she somehow managed to get his cosmic awareness and the powers he only had as a result of his nega-bands as inherent powers, plus a degree of invulnerability/toughness that he didn't even have.
Once Rogue absorbed her powers (except for the cosmic awareness, oddly), Rogue seemed significantly stronger and tougher than Carol ever was, which was yet another inconsistency. Rogue still wasn't Thor, Hercules or Namor-class, although well above Spider-Man or Luke Cage or other 'super-strong' characters.
Carol was then experimented on by the Brood, who unlocked her 'Binary' powers, which essentially gave her the energy output of a star (light, heat, gravity, etc.) in addition to Thor level strength and toughness.
I have no idea what happened next, but Carol reduced down to about the same power level as Rogue, but with her energy absorption ramped up, and the ability to shoot energy blasts (and called herself Warbird).
Much later, it was revealed that she could still 'go Binary' if blasted with enough energy, such as that of antimatter blasts, which she would absorb and use to power up. In that form she could also survive in outer space, which is something she didn't use to be able to do.
Finally, at present, she seems to have boosted up to her old Binary physical powers (Thor class strength and toughness), with flight, space capability / vacuum support, energy absorption and energy blasts (and still able to 'go Binary' if she gets hit with enough energy).
I'm not a huge fan of the character, and have no doubt missed a bunch of stuff (like whether or not she still has any sort of cosmic awareness), but that's pretty much the short, short version.
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Random aside: I liked that Thor is now merely inconvenienced by vacuum.
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Also, was thinking about it at work today.Thanos is an idiot.
A misguided idiot.
** spoiler omitted **
Yup...
"Hey, let's combat overpopulation by spending tons of energy and resources (that we could use to build self-sustained societies that focus on recycling, terraform empty planets to house them, or even build space habitats for them, and do system-scale mining and engineering to get raw resources, which would be effectively multiplied by recycling and then use the popularity gained by that to promote reasonable population control, giving us long term solutions) on destroying half the population".
There are hard-limits to what the Gauntlet can do with all the stones, but it's really hard to push that hard-limit.
It'd be much easier to slow down the biological processes for all races to mitigate a population crash (perhaps via digital uploading?), set everyone's minds at ease that this was a normal thing, and uplift all races to work on the problem.
...but then it wouldn't be about Thanos Saving The Day.
EDIT: A thought comes to mind -- when Thanos was trying to end 'half of everyone' was he attempting to incorporate himself into the 'half that went' and that's what caused the glove to have issues?
Thor:
Actually, I think that he might use the power of gauntlet to move all the killed people into a mirror universe - although I am not sure if it will be full-scale alternate universe, or a pocket dimension, or even a virtual world for minds/souls living in an illusion created with Reality Stone.
If so, Avengers 4 might involve fight against Thanos to reconnect those two realities/recover the dusted. Some of the sequels could take action within the other reality (Strange? Guardians Of The Galaxy, although Rocket is on Tony's side, not Stephen'), some of the sequels could take place after the reconnection.
At average human population growth rates, it will only take a few decades to recover the population, and so either Thanos would have to repeat this act every 30-50 years or so, or come up with a more long term solution. Obviously alien races might take more or less time, but for something done on a universe scale, it's actually an extremely short term fix.Or a mad space titan is a heck of an incentive to get some more effective birth-control methods going on your planet..
You don't even need a mad space titan for that! Although Tuf was rather tall, indeed...
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In particular, he made certain claims about being King of Asgard, etc, etc that were also... rather bogus?...and Thor said nothing about it.
No, I'm calling shenanigans
Prince Of Asgard and rightful heir to Jotunheim. Although it sounded wrong right after he reminded to not be from Asgard in the first place.
** spoiler omitted **
I want trilogy of Loki movies:
1. Loki trying to deal with lives of the mundanes after Thor challenges him to fraternize with them for a month or so...
2. Loki in full trickster mode in some space empire court (think The Grandmaster court on steroids). Heck, it could even take place in Grandmaster's court before Thor joins him as he was there much earlier.
3. Loki dealing with mythic supernatural beings across the nine worlds and some other non-Asgard entities.
I saw an interesting fan-theory (and we all know what those are worth...), that called back to the nature of the Soul Stone in the comics, which contained a pocket world in which anyone who died to it lived on. The theory was that everyone we saw turn to dust were the people who *weren't* being sucked into the stone, and that everyone who 'survived' were actually the newly dead waking up in the pocket dimension inside the stone (and unaware that they weren't the lucky 50%)...
Thanos promised Tony he will spare him.
And anyway, Loki's faked his death before. I suspect he's dead, but really, Heimdall's the only one that I'd be really surprised to see again.
On one tentacle, I want Loki to get a slew of his own movies, on the other, Thanos statement about no resurrection sounds much like an official spoiler.
Side-note: if Asgardians can survive in the vacuum of space for hours or maybe days, that means they don't need to breathe regularly. So choking Loki shouldn't have killed him. Maybe Loki was faking it?
Not breathing might do little to protect against brain being deprived of blood due to strangulation, though.
I have a thought about what direction they will be taking Hawkeye in Avengers 4...
Alot of people are saying Ronin...but since he is from what I hear going to be in the next Ant-Man movie...and they are introducing Goliath in that movie...he might be taking the mantle...and power boost of Goliath in Avengers 4..,,he did in the comics.
You don't even need a mad space titan for that! Although Tuf was rather tall, indeed...At average human population growth rates, it will only take a few decades to recover the population, and so either Thanos would have to repeat this act every 30-50 years or so, or come up with a more long term solution. Obviously alien races might take more or less time, but for something done on a universe scale, it's actually an extremely short term fix.Or a mad space titan is a heck of an incentive to get some more effective birth-control methods going on your planet..
The twist is that this allows for the X-Men to be integrated into the MCU.
Double twist is that it is the world of Logan and so the onlu mutants left are a bunch of kids in Canada.
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Well, about two years ago (our time), comicsHawkeye did have a solution to that comicsHulk problem. Apparently, it wasn't permanent in the comics, but it might work on movieThanos.
Edit: And if they want the Fox mutants in the MCU, they can always use Scarlet Witch. Or David from the Legion TV show.