The Infinity War Thread! Once You See the Movie Post Your Reaction Here! There Will Be Spoilers!!!


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I like to think that MCU Wanda just pre-emptively, while still working for HYDRA, did the "no more mutants" schtick and that's why we won't have to worry about mutants in the MCU.

(I love X-Men, but I agree that cinematic universe wise, it is much cleaner and easier to follow keeping the X-Verse and the MCU separate. Also agree Hama that OTOH it would be cool to work in some of the F4verse stuff. Especially since Scott Lang was a Future Foundation member, and it makes it easier for She-Hulk to show up.)

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Well, about two years ago (our time), comicsHawkeye did have a solution to that comicsHulk problem. Apparently, it wasn't permanent in the comics, but it might work on movieThanos.

THAT'S why they kept Hawkeye out of Infinity War. If he showed up too early, he would have just beat Thanos and we'd have no story. ;)


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The end of the movie was refreshingly different for such a huge production. Congrats to them for playing it safe.

Now if only thanos's motivation had made a little more sense. There are much better ways to solve galactic overpopulation when you have an omnipotent power glove.


Set wrote:
Lots of information.

Thanks. I remember Binary and then the power down to Warbird, but I guess that the stuff after that came after I stopped reading Marvel.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Threeshades wrote:

The end of the movie was refreshingly different for such a huge production. Congrats to them for playing it safe.

Now if only thanos's motivation had made a little more sense. There are much better ways to solve galactic overpopulation when you have an omnipotent power glove.

I think his real motivation is to prove that he was right--that his solution would have saved Titan. He believes that in the end what he's doing will make things better, and that this will vindicate him and therefore give meaning to the destruction of his homeworld--that at least it inspired something "better." (That it probably WON'T make things better is probably at least one key to his defeat.)

He is the MAD Titan. His plan doesn't have to make sense to anyone except himself. What's compelling about him isn't that he's full of logic, what's interesting (to me) is that he believes he's doing the right thing. Which is more interesting to me than someone who just wants to destroy the universe for reasons and bwa hahahahaha evil.


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Threeshades wrote:
Now if only thanos's motivation had made a little more sense.

Thanos: "Yeah, it wasn't really about overpopulation or limited resources or trying to get out of the friendzone with" {tips Infinity Fedora} "M'Lady Death."

Thanos: "I... I just really hate people. Nothing personal. Everyday, everywhere, people people people. Irritating me, infuriating me in countless, stupid, self-absorbed ways."

Audience: OK, that's a motivation I can relate to.

Coulson: "Sounds like you just badly needed a vacation. You should visit Tahiti. Nice breezes, drinks on the beach, the prettiest sunsets. It's a magical place."

Thanos: "Where did you come from? Actually, that does sound ni-" <KERPOWWW!!!>

{Thanos is punched in his big stupid head by Carol Danvers flying at Mach 6}

Coulson: "Nuts." {pulls Very Large Gun from Hammerspace} "I never got to find out what this does."


^^ That sounds like a rant by a speedster like Prof.Zoom/Reverse Flash or someone about how maddening it is to move at the speed of light while everyone is a statue.

Liberty's Edge

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lowfyr01 wrote:
@Werthead: I think it was more than choking. It looked more like a family friendly version of breaking his neck to me

Thanos puts on a Deadpool mask and says "I saw this in a movie once!" and twists Loki's head like he just attacked Metropolis.


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I hadn't heard ANY rumors about Hawkeye being in the next antman...they are just mentioned in the same breath because they have similar reasons why they were not involved in this fight.

I am starting to think we are going to get a big time skip before Avengers 4. What if 4 starts with like...ten years or something later?


Reckless wrote:
lowfyr01 wrote:
@Werthead: I think it was more than choking. It looked more like a family friendly version of breaking his neck to me
Thanos puts on a Deadpool mask and says "I saw this in a movie once!" and twists Loki's head like he just attacked Metropolis.

And he did it with one hand


Where is Thanos at the very end? Not the waystation, psychic moment, but the valley? At first I thought it was Wakanda, but the moon seemed way too big to be Earth, unless they were taking artistic license to make for a pretty shot (or he made Earth a new moon out of all the souls).


Probably a different planet altogether that Thanos came to call a vacation home. He can 'port almost anywhere with The Glove, even as damaged as it is ... and he recovered from taking Stormbreaker to the chest really quickly, likely as part of his exit 'port and transition through the Soul Stone.


Irontruth wrote:
Where is Thanos at the very end? Not the waystation, psychic moment, but the valley? At first I thought it was Wakanda, but the moon seemed way too big to be Earth, unless they were taking artistic license to make for a pretty shot (or he made Earth a new moon out of all the souls).

I assumed that it was his home world restored, or at least illusion of it created with Infinity Stones power.


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could also be Gamora's homeworld. He did mention it was now a paradise to her.


MMCJawa wrote:
could also be Gamora's homeworld. He did mention it was now a paradise to her.

I like your call on this one. :)

Dark Archive

The Mad Comrade wrote:

No on-screen deaths for Valkyrie, Korg and Sif. When it comes to Thanos, "wiped out" seems to always result in 50% fatalities (Asgardian refugees and Xandar). Reasonable to believe that half of the Asgardians (barely) survive ... although the snap-of-the-fingers moment may well have halved that number again ...

Slain by Thanos and/or his minions without use of The Glove:
Loki (crushed throat - no resurrection for YOU!)
Heimdall (stabbed by a minion's spear)
Gammora (flung to her on-screen demise, witnessed by the Red Skull)

Vision was too. However, the earlier dialog bought him an out vis-a-vis Banner's comments that Vision is parts Jarvis, Ultron, Infinity Stone and perhaps more. I'm not *quite* sure Vision counts as permanently deceased just yet. It is possible that what Thanos killed was a not-Vision-with-Infinity-Stone-in-his-Forehead.

Pretty sure I'm forgetting someone being permadeath'd.

Considering a large chunk of his forehead came off with the stone, I'm gonna assume Vision is deader than dead.

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They were so eager to put Shuri over as being smarter than Banner and Stark combined that they forgot that those guys weren't involved in the creation of Vision.

Grand Lodge

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You forgot where they had the cradle and were uploading Jarvis.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Shadow Kosh wrote:
They were so eager to put Shuri over as being smarter than Banner and Stark combined that they forgot that those guys weren't involved in the creation of Vision.

They were involved in the reprogramming of Vision. While he was originally created by Ultron and Cho to be Ultron's ultimate form, when Banner and Stark got a hold of him they fed JARVIS into him, presumably along with some other programming from Banner and Stark themselves. (ETA: ninjaed by TriOmegaZero.) That's what Banner was talking about, and his particular line didn't hold any inaccuracies as I recall. (Vision-as-intended-by-Ultron would have been an entirely different and far more dangerous creature.)

Shuri seemed to be mapping his programming matrix into her own computer, so assuming she might be able to take what she mapped and turn it into a new Vision program isn't out of the question. Vision is also made of vibranium, the very substance she is an utter genius at working with, so fixing his forehead isn't out of her realm of capability at all.


Current suppositions (pure theorycraft, subject to change when facts are available):

Vision's "matrix" was downloaded into Shuri's computer by her last final finger swipe.

I suspect Loki is straight-up deceased, but if he isn't ... as one of the few entities with knowledge of how to operate Infinity Stones (the Mind Stone via the scepter and the Tesseract by implication) he may well have used the latter to swipe a copy of himself from "Elsewhere" to sacrifice to Thanos while wisely surrendering the Tesseract to Thanos via his doppleganger simulacrum. This is highly unlikely IMO, as I suspect the only two characters more permanently deceased than he is are Heimdall and Gamora.

Repairing Vision's body is probably a no-brainer (heh - pun not intended) for Shuri. Reuploading him into the repaired body won't be too hard for her to do either based on the dialog we heard ... provided his "soul" as it were was successfully downloaded at that last precious second...

One wonders as to the Mind Stone itself and how much influence it exerted on Ultron (as its core mentality) after being the Glow-Stick of Destiny thence being of a shared mind with Jarvis as Vision. Perhaps the Mind Stone wanted a clean break - whether blown up or otherwise - or perhaps it exerts a type of gestalt with the other Infinity Stones in guiding actions towards certain events.

(Paraphrasing) Perhaps the infinity stones want to be found having heard the Soul Stone's call.


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Shadow Kosh wrote:
They were so eager to put Shuri over as being smarter than Banner and Stark combined that they forgot that those guys weren't involved in the creation of Vision.

Wakanda is what...a century or so ahead of the rest of the world? I'd be kind of surprised if Shuri wasn't all "why did you do this when you could do THIS" to Banner.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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At the same time, I'd love to see Banner and Shuri working together. As a futuristic engineer and a genius nuclear physicist they would be able to do cool stuff, & Shuri's gentle teasing would probably be a fun foil to Banner's dorkiness.


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I am most curious about Black Widow and Banner myself. If the Hulk continues to be too scared to come out, that means that in theory Banner may actually have a shot at romance.


For smartest person in the MCU, I'd go with Pym. With regular 1970's scientific advancement, he invented something that basically defies the regular laws of physics, the Pym Particle.


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Thanos' Motivations:
I saw an interesting post discussing Thanos' plans and what's needed to actually solve problems. One point made was that if more resources were made available, life would explode outward to consume them, hastening entropy. On the other hand, if life is maintained below a point (by whatever means), life could be extended significantly. Consider his note on Gamora's world, which he says is much better off now. That assumes we're willing to trust his words, of course. XD Point is, if they went hard down that route - sometimes you have to cut off a limb to save a body - it would further separate Thanos from characters who are evil because they are evil. I think villains with genuinely understandable motivations - where you wonder if they might be right after all - tend to be the best.

Conversely, I'd like to see someone point out a flaw in that argument - that killing half the people without regard to their situation won't necessarily improve matters. What if a population is already stable and only using renewable resources? The "it's better for everyone" argument doesn't really hold sway there, and that doubt - faltering will - might be a driver for Thanos' defeat.

Side note: I appreciated having a film that wasn't "protagonist fights themselves in a different suit". XD I enjoy situations where the hero(s) and the villain(s) have genuinely different abilities and strategies.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:
For smartest person in the MCU, I'd go with Pym. With regular 1970's scientific advancement, he invented something that basically defies the regular laws of physics, the Pym Particle.

Unlike Howard Stark who did that sort of stuff from the 40s and on.

Pretty much every inventor in the MCU and its spin-offs invents something that defies the laws of RL physics.

Considering people like Stark and Erskine etc. had a much lower tech base to start from I consider them far more impressive techies than Shuri.

Grand Lodge

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What exactly did Howard do? The serum wasn't his, although it looked like the setup Steve was in was Stark tech. He discovered the blueprint for the new element but couldn't capitalize on it, so Tony had to finish the work. Howard seemed to be a great idea guy, built up Shield and Stark Enterprises. But we don't really get to see what he built beyond that.

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Vita-Rays? That seems like something pretty neat. Also he invented repulsors in 1941, it took Stark Industries 70 years to get advanced enough to use that tech base.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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MMCJawa wrote:
I am most curious about Black Widow and Banner myself. If the Hulk continues to be too scared to come out, that means that in theory Banner may actually have a shot at romance.

I'd rather they not ever revive that storyline ever again. It was awful.

Besides which, when a dude runs away to space on effectively a one-way ticket just to avoid dealing with you, that's a pretty strong message he's not interested. Yes, I know Banner does have feelings for her and the video of Nat played a role in bringing him back in Ragnarok, but from her POV he left her and she's had 3 years to move on, and bigger things to worry about to boot.

Not everyone needs a love interest or to be in a relationship. Both characters I'd rather see on their own (plus as a traditionalist I'd rather see Banner get back together with Betty if he's gonna be in a relationship at all).

TriOmegaZero wrote:
What exactly did Howard do? The serum wasn't his, although it looked like the setup Steve was in was Stark tech. He discovered the blueprint for the new element but couldn't capitalize on it, so Tony had to finish the work. Howard seemed to be a great idea guy, built up Shield and Stark Enterprises. But we don't really get to see what he built beyond that.

Agent Carter goes more into some of what he's developed. While it also touches on his failed inventions, and some of his successful achievements are joint-ventures (true to real life science and engineering), you see more of the extents of his genius (as well as flaws in his character). For example he co-built a generator that creates a rift into the Dark Dimension, which was used to defeat the season 2 big bad, who was infused with Darkforce powers. (Though they of course stole the key formulas to make the rift generator from the big bad herself.)

I personally wouldn't call him smartest one in the MCU but I wouldn't assign that moniker to anyone. I always found the who's the smartest/strongest/prettiest/stinkiest/greenest/would be most likely to win a dance competition arguments to be a bit besides the point. The point is they're all amazing in their own particular areas of expertise, which differ enough (even when these genres tend to blur the smart people stuff into a single discipline of SCIENCE!) that they all have their own unique contributions to make. And moreover, I don't feel like the movies (or shows) themselves are trying to set up that debate. (Fans will always do their own thing, I recognize.)

(Although Thor is the prettiest, just so we're clear. ;) )

Dark Archive

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DeathQuaker wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
I am most curious about Black Widow and Banner myself. If the Hulk continues to be too scared to come out, that means that in theory Banner may actually have a shot at romance.
I'd rather they not ever revive that storyline ever again. It was awful.

What I liked most about it was that it seemed to me that the Black Widow was 100% wrong for Bruce. She gave him a heartfelt talk about how she respected that he had the most strength of anyone she'd ever met, and yet did his best to not use that strength because he didn't *want* to be a fighter. And then, when she needs the Hulk, she tells Bruce that he's adorable and pushes him off a cliff because she 'needs the other guy now.'

She's smart enough to realize that Bruce doesn't want to be the Hulk, and yet mercenary enough to force him to become the Hulk when she deems that tactically useful, regardless of his wishes. (And she does the same to the Hulk, lullabying him to sleep the second she doesn't need him anymore.)

What was neat to me is that she basically broke *both* of their hearts, Bruce and the Hulk, and he flat out deserves better.

So, in that sense, I certainly wouldn't want to see them actually get together...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

All very valid points, Set.


Set wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
I am most curious about Black Widow and Banner myself. If the Hulk continues to be too scared to come out, that means that in theory Banner may actually have a shot at romance.
I'd rather they not ever revive that storyline ever again. It was awful.

What I liked most about it was that it seemed to me that the Black Widow was 100% wrong for Bruce. She gave him a heartfelt talk about how she respected that he had the most strength of anyone she'd ever met, and yet did his best to not use that strength because he didn't *want* to be a fighter. And then, when she needs the Hulk, she tells Bruce that he's adorable and pushes him off a cliff because she 'needs the other guy now.'

She's smart enough to realize that Bruce doesn't want to be the Hulk, and yet mercenary enough to force him to become the Hulk when she deems that tactically useful, regardless of his wishes. (And she does the same to the Hulk, lullabying him to sleep the second she doesn't need him anymore.)

What was neat to me is that she basically broke *both* of their hearts, Bruce and the Hulk, and he flat out deserves better.

So, in that sense, I certainly wouldn't want to see them actually get together...

That is some on the money analysis..The whole romance scenes between them made me feel uncomfortable and I think this is why. With the Vison/Wanda romance it really felt forced..sorta feel the same with Bruce and BW, but in this case there is not really chemistry because to her its just a part of her job..say what needs to be said to get the needed result.

Dark Archive

DeathQuaker wrote:
Agent Carter goes more into some of what he's developed. While it also touches on his failed inventions

Dude can't even make a heating blanket without turning it into a suicide vest.

Dark Archive

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Black Dougal wrote:
That is some on the money analysis..The whole romance scenes between them made me feel uncomfortable and I think this is why. With the Vison/Wanda romance it really felt forced..sorta feel the same with Bruce and BW, but in this case there is not really chemistry because to her its just a part of her job..say what needs to be said to get the needed result.

It's not just that I feel that Natasha's totally wrong for Bruce, so much as that she's totally wrong for *anyone,* in her current state.

The impression I got at the end of Age of Ultron was that she'd realized too late where she'd gone wrong with Bruce (and the Hulk), and that they didn't run away to get away from Ultron (whom they'd already beaten) or the Avengers, but to specifically get away from *her.*

And it's interesting to note that, as of Civil War (when Tony asks Nastasha if she's got tabs on the Hulk), Tony *still* hadn't figured it out, because if there's one person more clueless about how to have a healthy romance than Natasha, it's Tony...

The thing with Natasha is that she's just cold (and cynical about love 'love is for children,' she says with contempt) enough that she might be able to recognize where she went wrong, and yet set on her path enough to be unwilling to change. She might feel something for Bruce, but, at the end of the day, knows herself enough to know that she'd *always* choose to bring out 'the other guy' if she thinks he's needed, no matter what Bruce wants (or what sort of risk it puts him in, since she's very much the sort of person who would sacrifice one person, even a person she cares about, for the mission, especially when 'the mission,' as an Avenger, is not uncommonly the fate of the entire world...).

I love that she's got this pragmatic and ruthless streak, and it makes her a great partner to work alongside Cap, who is more idealistic.

It also makes me want to see her work alongside Bucky, who has elements of both. (And the Falcon, who might be a voice of humanity, constantly expressing dismay at the extremity of the sort of solutions they might casually consider.)

"Really? Sniper rifles at two klicks out? Is that how we Avenger now? Because I was thinking we get in there, punch some faces, shoot anyone who shoots at us first, and some folks get led away in handcuffs..."


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mostly I would be interested in a Banner-Widow situation because if a Time skip happens, it could make for some interesting drama. Also, I could see Black Widow being threatened as one of the few things that might convince Hulk to come out and play....

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Shadow Kosh wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Agent Carter goes more into some of what he's developed. While it also touches on his failed inventions
Dude can't even make a heating blanket without turning it into a suicide vest.

On the other hand he not only successfully made a flying car in 1947, he also used it to close an interdimensional rift.

That's why Dormammu was so cranky in the modern day in Dr. Strange. Took him forever to get the steering wheel dislodged from his eye. ;)

The heating vest is a nonsensical item, but there's a theory that he intentionally booby trapped all the "bad babies" in his vault because what they were really there for was to protect the "Blitzkrieg Button" and moreover its contents. If people tried to use the "bad babies" it would kill them and keep the one valuable thing in the vault safe. Which actually seems like something Howard would do.

Set wrote:
The thing with Natasha is that she's just cold (and cynical about love 'love is for children,' she says with contempt) enough that she might be able to recognize where she went wrong, and yet set on her path enough to be unwilling to change. She might feel something for Bruce, but, at the end of the day, knows herself enough to know that she'd *always* choose to bring out 'the other guy' if she thinks he's needed, no matter what Bruce wants (or what sort of risk it puts him in, since she's very much the sort of person who would sacrifice one person, even a person she cares about, for the mission, especially when 'the mission,' as an Avenger, is not uncommonly the fate of the entire world...).

Given Natasha's whole story is about redemption and learning to be a good person, I strongly disagree she is unwilling to change. However, I do believe you're absolutely right that she realized too late how manipulative she was being (being manipulative is just reflexive to her). Natasha wants to love, or she wouldn't have tried to pursue Bruce at all. (The "love is for children" comment is probably something a) she was taught in the Red Room and knows is wrong, and b) said to Loki when she's trying to be all deflective and nonchalant for him. There's no reason to think she believes what she said, especially since she lies easily and often.) She just isn't good at expressing love, especially romantic love--she is trained to use sexuality as a weapon, and never had real friendships or familial-type relationships until she was a grown adult and had defected to SHIELD. When it comes to actually cultivating a real relationship, she's probably as bad if not the worst at it on the team. Maybe even more than Tony. ;) (This is the irony of her pushing Steve to get into a relationship during The Winter Soldier when she doesn't know how to relationship herself--and I almost wonder if she was trying to push Steve out of his shell in part to see how getting out of your shell can be done.)

Still, she's miles ahead of her predecessor, who thinks friendship is poisoning your target and getting them captured instead of just killing them outright. There's hope for Natasha... but I don't know if the movies will ever give her enough time to develop properly in that direction. Maybe if the Black Widow standalone is really a thing... and yet at the same time, I kind of just want that to be a spy thriller that doesn't get bogged down by romance.

Quote:
I love that she's got this pragmatic and ruthless streak, and it makes her a great partner to work alongside Cap, who is more idealistic.

Absolutely. Theirs is one of my favorite platonic partnerships in the group.

"You're not the type of guy who's gonna throw someone off a building."
"Nope. You're right." *puts guy down* "But she is."
*kick!*


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Well the good news is we are probably getting a black widow stand alone sometime in Phase 4.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I hope so, but I'd like something more to go on than unverifiable rumors of a writer being hired. Most of the "news reports" are "'someone' says so and so is going to be the writer," with no identifying the someone. Which is no proof at all.


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DeathQuaker wrote:
I hope so, but I'd like something more to go on than unverifiable rumors of a writer being hired. Most of the "news reports" are "'someone' says so and so is going to be the writer," with no identifying the someone. Which is no proof at all.

True, although at least some of information is from direct quotes by Kevin Fiege.

I think it will happen, unless Scarlet has lost interest like Evans and is ready to move on. Assuming she is in the next Avengers film as
well, that's 8 movies where she has played the character after all.

Of course the big news this week is Fiege saying they are exploring adding Kamala Khan to the MCU...

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Set wrote:
in her current state.

This is why we don't let Whedon around... anything.

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DeathQuaker wrote:

Absolutely. Theirs is one of my favorite platonic partnerships in the group.

"You're not the type of guy who's gonna throw someone off a building."
"Nope. You're right." *puts guy down* "But she is."
*kick!*

Oh yes, instant classic. I loved that scene. I loved that whole movie, really, and the Black Widow, in particular, has benefitted from some great writing.

For instance, in the beginning of Civil War, where the grenade is about to go off and Cap picks her up to literally hurl the both of them clear of danger, she doesn't just hang in his arms like a damsel being rescued, but is actively shooting out the window he's throwing them out through. I loved that little detail. Even when she's 'being saved by the big strong man,' she's actively doing stuff to assist in the saving, and not just being the one who screams 'Indy!'

I'm also a big fan of the non-romantic nature of Natasha's relationship with Cap (and with Hawkeye, for that matter). Scarlet Witch also has an interesting relationship with Hawkeye, who kind of got both of the Maximoff twins into the game in Age of Ultron, and again is the one to tell Wanda to get off her ass in Civil War (and she later snaps at him for not having his head in the game, which was interesting to see, a 'rookie' straight up rebuking the guy who recruited her to the team).

Speaking of relationships, gosh, the nature of these films, where many months go by between films, not just for us, but for the characters, can be jarring. Vision mentions something in Infinity War about wishing he and Wanda had just stayed in bed that day, and while I now that time has passed for them, I had just rewatched Civil War, their last appearance, in which she slammed him through a dozen floors and ceilings.

For me, the viewer, it was like, 'an *hour ago* you were holding her under house arrest and she was kicked your ass for it, and now you two are knocking boots?' :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Vision and Wanda's relationship in Civil War was all sorts of weird... even before she, to quote Honest Trailers, "threw him in the friend-hole," Vision was sort of creepy, phasing into her room and stuff. (Not romantic.)

At the same time I've got to give huge props to Bettany and Olsen as their chemistry in IW rang true. (And weirdly reminiscent of Jarvis and Ana in Agent Carter, and I can't tell if that's intentional or I'm just way too obsessed with Agent Carter or both. Possibly both.) But I do also remember asking, "when did this happen?"

Natasha was also totally being Party Mom with "You never call, you never write, and now you've gone off and gotten attacked by intergalactic hooligans, and what have you got to say for yourself, NOW, young lady." (Okay that wasn't the line, but it was the message.) Which also indicates that apparently they've been working enough with Steve and Natasha for Natasha to actually vaguely get emotional for a second. I feel like we somehow missed a whole other movie, of Cap, Sam, Nat, Vision, and Wanda doing their Secret Avengers thing.

Which I would totally pay to go see, for that matter.

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DeathQuaker wrote:

I feel like we somehow missed a whole other movie, of Cap, Sam, Nat, Vision, and Wanda doing their Secret Avengers thing.

Which I would totally pay to go see, for that matter.

Indeed. (Although I don't think Vision was part of their team, and that Wanda and Vision weren't supposed to be sneaking off and 'sleeping with the enemy' of their respective 'sides.' Although, given the nature of Cap's team, at least, I imagine that Natasha, at least, knew about it, even if Tony felt like he had no clue what Vision was up to.)

Some smaller in-between movies might have also been a good place to introduce some other folks, like an MCU version of Mockingbird or USAgent, or get to focus more on Sharon Carter or Maria Hill's interactions with the split teams. But that would have likely pushed Infinity War out even further, and Thanos sitting around waiting for his Infinity Stones had, IMO, already gotten a bit stale.

I often feel like the movies feel 'rushed' to get to / set up the next movie. I would have happily watched at least one more Captain America movie set in WW2, introducing the Invaders, for example, but he had to wake up in the modern-day and be ready for the Avengers at the end of the first Captain America movie.

Similarly, I was not even close to done with Asgard, and could have watched more movies involving gods and giants and women on flying horses and the Enchantress and Baldar and Karnilla and all that mythical high-fantasy jazz.

While it's long-form by movie standards, the MCU has been almost painfully abrupt to someone like me, who's read decades worth of continuing stories set in Asgard, or in Cap's WW2 adventures, etc.


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Set wrote:
I often feel like the movies feel 'rushed' to get to / set up the next movie.

This one certainly did- they've been building up to this since at least 2012... but so much of what Infinity War presents as the status quo is basically... hot-shotted.

We've had two years since Civil War, and in that time we really didn't look in on what either team of Avengers was doing. Oh, Tony showed up in the Spider-Man flick, but otherwise? Otherwise we get two years worth of "in case you were wondering" in the span of about ten minutes worth of screen time (if it was that much).

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I think we would have been much better off if, instead of Civil War, we had an actual Captain America 3 movie instead, instead of "really Avengers 3/Iron Man 4", focusing on rescuing Bucky (you could keep in the plot that he was framed and still introduce T'Challa), with only Sam and Sharon as major players (where Sharon could finally get some actual character development).

Then get rid of Thor the Dark World and instead have had an Avengers 3 film that takes place AFTER Age of Ultron, where Thor, aware of something going on to do with the Infinity Stones, gets the team to go after the Reality Stone, and that story introduces Wanda and Vision's relationship.

You could have any necessary tensions with the group show up in that move instead.

Though I feel like even though the Russo Bros said they needed Civil War to split up the Avengers... honestly, I really don't see why. You could just say, the group has gotten bigger, and Cap's working with one group, and Tony's doing the other, or taking a step back from the Avengers to spend more time with Pepper and mentor Peter (Tony and Peter's relationship could just have been introduced in Homecoming, with his conversation with Peter from Civil War just happening at the beginning of Homecoming in lieu of the "what's happened since Civil War" montage). In fact Steve could still be on the run just for, y'know, helping technically a war criminal who's murdered hundreds of people. It wouldn't have made one bit of difference to the plot of Infinity War--just replace the dialogue of "he and I haven't spoken in awhile" with "he's laying low [because of still helping Bucky, a wanted criminal], so here's a communicator you can use to call him." Civil War could never have happened and except for explaining how Bucky got to Wakanda (which could have been, as above, handled differently), it wouldn't have made a bit of difference to the events of Infinity War.

Which is really weird when you think about it.

Ah well, we can't go back in time. I hope after Avengers 4, most films are a little more standalone so we can get better character development rather than always setting up for the next thing like a really sloooooow-moving Netflix series.

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Some smaller in-between movies might have also been a good place to introduce some other folks, like an MCU version of Mockingbird or USAgent, or get to focus more on Sharon Carter or Maria Hill's interactions with the split teams.

Mockingbird was in AOS, which I think means she'll never crossover to films (but who am I to say?). I have a fantasy that in Avengers 4 they will somehow have a single shot where EVERY MCU character who has EVER been an Avenger in the comics shows up in the same place to fight, even if just a 2 second cameo, and so in addition to the film Avengers we also see for a minute Bobbi, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones (and whoever else I'm forgetting).

I really hope Sharon Carter gets *something* so that she's more than "Betty Carver, Captain America's token blonde love interest." She deserves way better. I expect Cap'll die in Avengers 4, but if not, I hope he gets one last movie that focuses on him and the Cap family (Sharon, Bucky, and Sam). (And if Chris wants to go, he can die at the end of that one.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I've so far liked all of the Civil War/post Civil War Marvel movies. Not sure I would want to give them up.

I think at some point in time the TV shows are going to be retconned away. Fiege has stated that there might come a time where some of the existing characters on Netflix and such might get a movie, and potentially be recast/reintroduced.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

MMCJawa wrote:
I've so far liked all of the Civil War/post Civil War Marvel movies. Not sure I would want to give them up.

Well, Thor: the Dark World was pre-Civil War. Civil War I enjoyed while watching it, but after I stopped and thought about it, it made me angry with everyone. Cap used to be my favorite Avenger and he became one of my least favorite after Civil War just because, right or wrong, he seemed so arrogant about it and his communications skills were sorely lacking. Apart from very small tidbits that were mainly used to set up other specific character movies (Spider-Man, Black Panther), I don't see the point at all to Civil War. It did nothing to advance anything, just had people acting stupid for two hours.

Like it or not, however, my point I was making earlier is that Infinity War could have happened regardless of the events of Civil War, excepting explaining how Bucky got to Wakanda (which could have been done in a different way).

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I think at some point in time the TV shows are going to be retconned away. Fiege has stated that there might come a time where some of the existing characters on Netflix and such might get a movie, and potentially be recast/reintroduced.

Link pls? I know people doubt the interconnectivity between the TV shows and movies because film and TV production schedules are so different you really can't have the films do more than vaguely reference the shows (like Vision saying in Civil War that the number of powered persons had increased). But there's also a lot of die-hard fans of those shows who'd be seriously pissed if the connectivity were invalidated (myself included). If they transfer characters from tv to film, great, or the other way around (e.g., Peggy, Howard Stark, and Coulson; cameos from Fury and Sif), fine. But dissolving the connectivity after advertising the heck out of "it's all connected" would not go down well, I don't think.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't have a link...I know it was something Fiege has said, in his vague "not ruling anything out" ways"

Granted this was pre Fox merger, which is giving back a lot more IP so there probably will be less pressure to have to reboot properties. And this was specifically in relation to the Netflix shows, which are built around somewhat prominent properties.

I dunno...I love AoS, Agent Carter, and most of the Netflix shows. But honestly I found Runaways a bit disappointment, Inhumans was a trash fire, and Iron Fist deeply disappointing. I'd hate that some options might be closed off by underwhelming TV productions.

At any rate, we know...sometime in the future they are going to have to reckon with the fox properties, which is probably going to involve a plotline with a reality reset. IF 5 seasons of Daredevil have happened by that point, that might be a good opportunity to bring in a "new" Daredevil into the MCU.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

The only thing I could find was a screenrant article where Feige says he expects movie and TV to crossover vaguely maybe someday, and then the author speculates that for some reason this could possibly mean TV characters could get recast, which was entirely the author's speculation and had nothing to do with what Feige said (which was very very nonspecific and noncommittal). I also found a different article that said that Feige was willing to recast the film heroes if needed, as with War Machine, but the TV shows were not brought into the equation.

You bring up an interesting point with the "reality reset" and the Fox properties. A4 was in planning before the merger, but I wonder if they will use its events--if it indeed involves a giant reset button as we all expect--to bring in some of the originally Fox-owned elements, like F4.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

And there have been multiple quotes made about various Marvel TV series that "it's all connected".


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