Play a lawful good inquisitor. Let him take the first swing, watch him fall, proceed to beat the no class feature wimp he has become.
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Looks like anything that can fly will pretty much laugh at him.
Really though, the only way to win is not to play.
Play a lawful good inquisitor. Let him take the first swing, watch him fall, proceed to beat the no class feature wimp he has become.
9_9
Only CRB and APG is so limiting to me that I have no idea where to start with a build, but there are some glaring weaknesses of this paladin.
His perception is horrible. Just a simple stealth build will destroy him as you can easily get a Stealth modifier so high he can't see you even if he gets a natural 20 and you a natural 1.
Anything flying will take him down, but he won't take that as a real defeat as he could just buy a magic item to allow for flight.
His touch AC is gonna be the worst, probably around 12-13 with Size Increase and Lunge. You could make a Sneak Attack build based on making ranged Touch Attacks from stealth/invisibility, and just circumvent his 35 AC.
Also, watch out for his 15 ft Reach.
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Righteous Might and Enlarge Person does not stack, btw. So you'll have to call him out on that if he tries it.
Boots of Striding and Springing does not stack with Haste, as they're both Enhancement bonuses, and you'd reduce the movement from equipped armor.
So while the player of the paladin might think he has 60 movement speed in Full Plate, he should only have 40.
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Edit: Yes, this is petty, but this guy has made the last seven months of pathfinder no fun for anyone, so I'm all too happy to crush him.
Never try to solve an out-of-game problem in-game.
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A wizard makes a sad paladin.
Be an antiPaladin and beat him at his own game. Strix/flying anything kinda makes his life miserable. A flying reach or archer antiPaladin probably could shut him up in the worst way. Any class with 9th level spells of equal alignment so his tricks don't work on you but yours work on him. Be a barbarian and beat him to death despite everything he thinks he has. You have lots of options.
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Be a Wizard.
Have a contingency that will teleport you out of range if he comes within reach.
Use wall spells to encircle the Paladin. Wall of Iron in particular. Start with a Quickened Wall of Iron via metamagic rod to encircle the Paladin, then use the metamagic rod in your other hand to drop a maximized Cloudkill, which will do two points of constitution damage per round even on a successful save.
On followup turns, maximize a Freezing Fog via rod. 18 cold damage isn't enough to harm the wall of iron.
Then, when the Paladin starts attacking the wall, whatever side he attacks, cast Wall of Force on that side, which will be much harder to get through. Three walls of force and he's stuck in a much stronger cage.
All those options ignore spell resistance, and the only thing that offers a save still does 2 Con damage if it works.
If you can get Fogcutting Lenses approved, this becomes much easier.
Have a bunch of Dispel Magic ready, and you just have to hold him in the cloud long enough for him to die of Cloudkill and DoT, and dispel whatever countermeasures he has in the form of magic. Your spell slots will outlast his.
ALCHEMIST, Focus on bombs.
Feats: POINT BLANK SHOT, RAPID SHOT, TWO WEAPON FIGHTING and maybe IMPROVED TWO WEAPON FIGHTING.
With the FAST BOMBS discovery you can throw bombs as a full-attack action.
At level 15 your BAB is +11/+6/+1. With the above feats your attack routine will look more like: +8/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2. With an extract of HASTE it'll look like: +9/+9/+9/+9/+4/+4/-1 (before you add in your dex or any other bonuses you can find). Those numbers don't look great but since you're targeting touch AC you'll only have to hit AC 15 or so.
So it may seem like trying to kill a Paladin with HP damage is a waste of time ... because it IS a waste of time. Instead, try debuffing. I know his saves are high, but when you can potentially stack 7 debuffs on him in a single full-round action you don't need a 100% success rate.
Here are some bomb discoveries that target reflex/will saves or target something other than a save (that fort save IS high enough to be almost unbeatable): CONFUSION BOMB, DISPELLING BOMB, EXPLOSIVE BOMB, FORCE BOMB, SHOCK BOMB and TANGLEFOOT BOMB. Hit him with all of those and he'll be confused, prone, dazzled and entangled. He'll also be on fire and you'll have a chance at dispelling any buffs he cast (with his lower caster level this shouldn't be so hard).
Or if you want to just go for the kill - MADNESS BOMB. Teach him why dumping stats is a mistake. You can potentially knock him unconcious in a single round with no save.
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Is "this plan" some elaborate scheme to win at social engineering against this friend using game mechanics rather than just talking to them?
I think there's one goblin alchemist archetype that gives you a flying mount. Not sure how much that interferes with the flurry of bombs plan.
How about a Strix Gunslinger (Pistolero) 5/Fighter X? Doing the dual-wielding pistol shenanigans with deadly aim and TWF. You get Dex to damage, and fighter weapon training effortless dual wielding can help increase the accuracy. Although again, touch ac...
On one hand, I agree this isn't the best way to solve person to person conflict, but on the other... I really want to see what happens...
My fav part is where the paladin man is actually watching this thread and is now building an anti-flight paladin.
I will say that it could be insanely funny to beat this guys with a rogue.
His Maximum perception bonus is +13 (15 ranks -2 ability bonus)
We need to be able to get our stealth to +33 and take the Expert Sniper combat feat and he can never see you.
Take Hide in Plain Sight Rogue Talent to make sure you will be able to use stealth even if there is no cover.
Needed Items: (240 000GP to spend)
Sniper Goggles 10 000GP
Belt of Dex +6 36 000GP
+1 Greater Shadow Armor 34 750gp
+5 Bow 50 000GP
Feats:
Skill Focus Stealth
Expert Sniper
Improved Init
We go for 28 Dex, and a small race.
Init = +13 easily, meaning we should go first. We can probably get this higher. If we can get to a +20 we always go first.
We can take reactionary trait for another +2. Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (cracked) +1 Init (competence), 500 gp. a +1 deuling gauntlet gives us another +4 for 16 000GP. That gets us to the +20 we need. We now always go first.
To Hit = +9 (Dex) +5 (bow) + 11 = +25
We need a 10 to hit, thats fine. There are again, ways to get this higher. Weapon Focus is an example.
Stealth:
+15 (greater Shadow armor) + 15 (ranks) +4 (small) +9 (dex) +3 (skill focus)= +46
-10 for sniping = +36
Our Minimim stealth roll is 37
His maximum Perception roll is 33
He can never see us. We can walk around him and shoot him as much as we like, and he can never ever spot us.
Each time we hit, we deal 1d4+8d6+ 16(if within 30 ft) for an average of (2.5+8*3.5=) 46.5 damage. We can apply all sorts of debuffs with this too.
I think this might be the most fun way to do this. Also there are more ways to boost your stealth in case he tries to up his perception.
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We go for 28 Dex, and a small race.
...
Stealth:
+15 (greater Shadow armor) + 15 (ranks) +4 (small) +9 (dex) +3 (skill focus)= +46
-10 for sniping = +36
Our Minimim stealth roll is 37
His maximum Perception roll is 33
The final Stealth bonus should be higher by 3 as he has 10+ ranks in Stealth, so minimum 40.
Furthermore, Halflings are small, have Dex bonus and the Swift as Shadow alternate racial trait reduces the sniping penalty to Stealth by further 10, for a total penalty of 0 (minimum Stealth check while sniping: 50). It appears both in the Advanced Race Guide and Advanced Player's Guide, so it should not need prior approval by the GM.
If you can find a way to suppress the light emanated by a Brilliant Energy bow, you can get one to essentially target AC 10 (or less).
We go for 28 Dex, and a small race.
...
Stealth:
+15 (greater Shadow armor) + 15 (ranks) +4 (small) +9 (dex) +3 (skill focus)= +46
-10 for sniping = +36
Our Minimim stealth roll is 37
His maximum Perception roll is 33The final Stealth bonus should be higher by 3 as he has 10+ ranks in Stealth, so minimum 40.
Furthermore, Halflings are small, have Dex bonus and the Swift as Shadow alternate racial trait reduces the sniping penalty to Stealth by further 10, for a total penalty of 0 (minimum Stealth check while sniping: 50). It appears both in the Advanced Race Guide and Advanced Player's Guide, so it should not need prior approval by the GM.
If you can find a way to suppress the light emanated by a Brilliant Energy bow, you can get one to essentially target AC 10 (or less).
The energy bow is great, but I can't think of any way to negate the glow. Could you wrap the bow in cloth? Speak to the GM maybe?
Say you have a ghillie suit and have wrapped your bow accordingly. These are common things snipers do.
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Take in a flying, range-touch Kineticist. You can do it with Fire or Aether, I believe. He'll have 8d6 energy damage, before you start adding things like Empower & Deadly Aim. His composite blast will be 16d6.
Lets see, minus any other details,
16d6 -> ave 56 hits.
Empowered yields 150% dice damage so 56 -> 84
Deadly Aim is -4 to hit & +8 damage -> 92.
If you start with 5 points of burn, the elemental Overflow provides +5 to hit, and +10 to damage -> 102. Hmmm, you can't Gather Energy while flying, so that's 1 point of burn for Empower, 1 for extended range (31' - 110'), and 2 more for Composite Blast. I'd start at 0 Burn and shoot him three times for 92, 100 & 108 points of damage.
Or you could Maximize the dice instead of Empower. That's 5 points of burn under similar circumstances, but the damage is
16d6 -> 96
Deadly Aim +8 -> 104
Just shoot him twice and ask him to surrender. I assume he'll still be awake due to self-healing, but in either case (Emp/Max) a third shot should kill him.
Note that Kinetic Blast is subject to Spell Resistance. I don't think I saw any such on his build, but he might sneak it in before the fight.
How does he have improved vital strike but no vital strike?
Buckler and a great sword but nothing for using both at the same time?
Make a 10th level wizard. :)
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I was thinking a chaotic good Invulnerable Rager barbarian with Come And Get Me would be a good counter. Beat him up before you ever get to attack, then "Finish Him!" on your turn. Don't forget to do the Matrix-Neo hand gesture before you roll initiative for extra style points.
Play a Wizard.
Grab Dazing Spell Metamagic.
Use a Dazing Ball Lightning Spell.
He now has to make something like 4 reflex saves or be dazed for 4 rounds. He then has to make these saves every round, where a single failed save means an extension on the Dazing effect.
Defensively, the moment he so much as looks in your direction, you can just cast Emergency Force Sphere. Since you can control your Ball Lightning from within the sphere, there's not much he can really do to you.
Alternatively, just hit him with an Icy Prison spell. If he fails his reflex save, he's basically dead. He'll take your caster level in cold damage every round for 1 minute per caster level. That's a total damage of 10 * CL * CL = 2250 damage at Caster level 15.
If you want to really humiliate his paladin, I have 3 words. Snake Style Monk. Just focus on making your Sense Motive modifier higher than he can make his attack roll. If you want to be particularly mean, get the feat that allows you to make a counter attack when you're missed, and flavor all your attacks as slaps, made while saying "Who's your daddy."
FTFY
Play a Wizard.
Grab Dazing Spell Metamagic.
Use a Dazing Ball Lightning Spell.
He wasted money on items he cannot use instead of buying the important stuff, like the ability to fly or see invisible. He also failed to pay attention to saving throws, normally a paladin's strong point.
Quickened Fly + Hungry Pit on round 1. Cloudkill on round 2.
Dead Paladin. Even if he makes his first few saving throws, he still takes CON damage every round.
Remember:
Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall. Failure means you fall from your current height and sustain the appropriate falling damage.
Hungry Pit is a DC 35 climb check and deals damage every round. At 15th level the pit will be 70' deep, and you only climb at 1/4 speed.
If you really want to be a bastard, drop a wall across the top. Even if he maxed his climb skill, he cannot use his two-handed sword while climbing, so even a low-level wall will be unbreakable for him.
Keep it simple. Invisibility, fly get out of his reach (maybe with withdrawal action), summon tons of creatures.
make a better paladin
CRB only is a real limiting factor.
But any character with the ability to fly and a ranged attack should win.
Hell, take a CRB rogue with Boots of Flying, a shortbow, and UMD a couple scrolls of Greater Invisibility
Watch the paladin cringe at all the sneak attack dice you get to roll every round.
Build this wrecking-machine. (Just don't be evil.)
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Build this wrecking-machine. (Just don't be evil.)
Sorry but after a few months of reading your comments on this forum I have to ask: why each and every one of your characters MUST have a dip into Savage Technologist/Drunken Brute Barbarian? Is there ANY melee character of yours that does not rely on fricking rage and compulsive drinking? Or are they all just clones of the same character who start each and every fight getting angry/gathering strength/focusing/yelling while chugging a pint?
The sole purpose of this character is to beat a really mediocre Paladin, who can be easily defeated targeting touch AC and/or using spells while being airborne/invisible/hidden. There is no reason to try-hard with heavy multiclass.
I was thinking a chaotic good Invulnerable Rager barbarian with Come And Get Me would be a good counter.Not a bad choice ordinarily, but the paladin build is set to use righteous might or enlarge person which will definitely mean he's going for reach (plus Lunge). Come and Get Me probably won't help if you aren't threatening the attacker, as you can't make an Attack of Opportunity (a kind GM may allow you to attempt a sunder on the weapon, but by the rules you probably couldn't unless you readied such an attack). It's the same reason a Crane-wing monk wouldn't work, their ability to deflect an attack (and it seems like he'd be going for the one attack per round power-attack-lunge-vital-strike whenever possible) would be great for laughing in his face, but he just wouldn't be close enough to trigger the free AoO and ripostes that would be required to drop him.
Good point. Couldn't the barbarian just drink a potion of enlarge person (and have a spare on hand in case it gets dispelled) and use a reach weapon themselves?
Quickened Fly + Hungry Pit on round 1. Cloudkill on round 2.
Dead Paladin. Even if he makes his first few saving throws, he still takes CON damage every round.
If you really want to be a bastard, drop a wall across the top. Even if he maxed his climb skill, he cannot use his two-handed sword while climbing, so even a low-level wall will be unbreakable for him.Ohhh...that's evil :D
Also, don't forget his lovely -5 armour check penalty on climb checks, so even if maxed (judging from his feat choices, probably 0), he'd have a +17 only, from his feats I'd say at least 1 of 3 skill/level went to a craft skill, possibly 2/3.Does the buckler add the +5 to AC during an attack? The shield itself will not add to AC if he's attacking, so if it doesn't is his AC only 29?
Boosting the dc on hungry pit with heightened and all the other stuff only nets something like a 65% chance for the pally to fail the reflex save. DC = 10 + 8(int) + 8(heightened spell) + 2 (spell focus and greater) = 28, vs a 14 save. You can maybe get to 29 by upping int more.
The paladin has a 30% chance to save. Which while not great is worse than a guarenteed victory from a plain stealth rogue
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Buckler and a great sword but nothing for using both at the same time?
You can use a buckler and a 2-handed weapon at the same time. But you not only any armor class benfits the buckler provides, but take a -1 on the attack roll. Not a shield/weapon combination of choice, but I could see a buckler and bastard sword 1h. Then, if you don't mind the armor class/attack problems, you can shift to two-handed usage for extra damage.
Buckler and a great sword but nothing for using both at the same time?You can use a buckler and a 2-handed weapon at the same time. But you not only lose the +1 armor class the buckler provides, but take a -1 on the attack roll. Not a shield/weapon combination of choice, but I could see a buckler and bastard sword 1h. Then, if you don't mind the armor class/attack problems, you can shift to two-handed usage for extra damage.
I know. I was asking because of how sub-optimal it is. I'm really confused as to why this guy thinks this paladin is so great. Thanks though. :)
@Kluter Archring
If you want to make an Eldritch Knight capable of taking down this Paladin with minimal investment, then here's what you can do.
Items:
Lesser Rod of Metamagic, Quicken (CRB), 17500 gp
Spells prepared:
True Strike (Lv 1, CRB)
Telekinesis (Lv 5, CRB)
Combat Start
If you won Initiative, then the paladin is Flat-Footed and can't make any Attack of Opportunities. If you lost Initiative, then you'll take one attack while moving close to the paladin.
Either way, stand adjacent to the paladin, and cast Telekinesis defensively to make a Disarm Attempt with a quickened True Strike. Since natural 1's aren't automatic failures on Concentration checks, you shouldn't be able to fail this with the Combat Casting feat.
Your Disarm bonus is: 41-42 (20 (True Strike) +13 (Caster Level) + 8-9 (Casting Stat))
The paladin's CMD is: 37* (10 + 7 (Str) + 0 (Dex) + 15 (BAB) + 5 (Deflection))
So, assuming that you succeed on the Disarm attempt (95% chance), you may now automatically pick up his +4 Holy Greatsword, while he's left without a weapon to defend himself with.
If he's stubborn, then just cast Fly on yourself and cast Ranged Touch spells from safety.
Combat End
If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
*If he has a Locked Gauntlet, his Disarm CMD will be 47. If you want to be certain of making the disarm attempt, then take the Foresight School (APG), so that you can (effectively) roll twice on your Disarm Attempt.
Quickened Fly + Hungry Pit on round 1. Cloudkill on round 2.
Dead Paladin. Even if he makes his first few saving throws, he still takes CON damage every round.
If you really want to be a bastard, drop a wall across the top. Even if he maxed his climb skill, he cannot use his two-handed sword while climbing, so even a low-level wall will be unbreakable for him.Ohhh...that's evil :D
Also, don't forget his lovely -5 armour check penalty on climb checks, so even if maxed (judging from his feat choices, probably 0), he'd have a +17 only, from his feats I'd say at least 1 of 3 skill/level went to a craft skill, possibly 2/3.Does the buckler add the +5 to AC during an attack? The shield itself will not add to AC if he's attacking, so if it doesn't is his AC only 29?
Boosting the dc on hungry pit with heightened and all the other stuff only nets something like a 65% chance for the pally to fail the reflex save. DC = 10 + 8(int) + 8(heightened spell) + 2 (spell focus and greater) = 28, vs a 14 save. You can maybe get to 29 by upping int more.
The paladin has a 30% chance to save. Which while not great is worse than a guarenteed victory from a plain stealth rogue
Try and try again. The paladin has neither a means of flight nor a ranged attack.
Also: Greater Elemental Focus (earth) & Spell Perfection added to what you already listed adds another +6 to the DC
Initiative 0?
Diviner Wizard with at least +20 initiative.
Auto go first and then do whatever you want.