I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in August
Not sure about that, especially if you look at other media with regard to teasers and the eventual product. See also: Star Wars movies, new Ghostbusters, Justice League, etc etc.
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Not sure about that, especially if you look at other media with regard to teasers and the eventual product. See also: Star Wars movies, new Ghostbusters, Justice League, etc etc.I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in August
At the very least the furor over those things made it abundantly clear who is not worth listening to once the final product was made available.
All we need is a mute function for the boards once we can identify the analogous "New Ghostbusters has ruined my childhood" set for the playtest.
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Not sure about that, especially if you look at other media with regard to teasers and the eventual product. See also: Star Wars movies, new Ghostbusters, Justice League, etc etc.I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in August
New ghostbusters made 229 millions World wide. Justice League made 665. Last Jedi 1 billion.
I'm pretty sure the vitriol some self proclaimed hard-core fans vomited into social media did not really hindered those movies that much. Pretty sure Paizo would be happy to have that kind of success with PF2
Not sure about that, especially if you look at other media with regard to teasers and the eventual product. See also: Star Wars movies, new Ghostbusters, Justice League, etc etc.I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in AugustNew ghostbusters made 229 millions World wide. Justice League made 665. Last Jedi 1 billion.
I'm pretty sure the vitriol some self proclaimed hard-core fans vomited into social media did not really hindered those movies that much. Pretty sure Paizo would be happy to have that kind of success with PF2
I bet they would! However, the relative success wasn't what I was speaking about; rather, I was addressing the hope that some steam will get blown off and the play test may be more readable.
It might also be a situation of different expectations. Reading the Rogue blog...the Rogue sounds...pretty rogue-y. And the Fighter sounds pretty Fighter-y. My take has been that the underlying system is probably changing more that the individual classes.
I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in August
My money on it! Haha!
Folks,
The blogs are not going to be dropping huge excerpts of the book. There is a very simple reason for this... it is still in edit, and layout. Then it needs to be copy fit and go through a few more rounds of edit. To top it off, we are still making changes and will, much to our publishers chagrin, continue to do so until the very last moment.
That said... we also had to announce it if we were going to let retailers and stores have a chance to participate in the release. Thats just how the distribution system works.
So... the best we can do right now is to give everyone an idea of how things work. We've already leaked things that have been changed and I am trying to keep that to a minimum so that the game we are talking about is the game you are going to get to playtest.
It's not ideal... but it is the best we can do right now. I hope that helps understand where we are at.
Thank you for taking the time to answer ! I did not intended at all to undermine the huge work you are doing, but more to raise a few concerns from a part of the community. Now we are less in the dark, and can try to get back into the hype train!
However I would still make a few sacrifices to Norgorber or Abraxas for a Skill Feat.
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I need more facts.
When I first saw the announcement for PF2 I was super happy.
But the bits we get now make me really dread PF2.
I don't want to have this dread build up until August.
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I’d be happy to just see the character sheets and handouts that some people have already had a chance to use.
I’d be happy to just see the character sheets and handouts that some people have already had a chance to use.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard on this board.
However, given that the players in these pre-playtest sessions were required to turn over all documents from their session, it seems unlikely that we will see anything like this prior to the playtest release in August.
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I just don't get the wait. We could all have alpha rules now while the real playtest is still getting changed.
Paizo could have thousands of people pouring over their current rules and pointing out unexpected combos or expressing confusion about wording.
Right now it feels like I'm being marketed too not that I'm being invited for feedback and it doesn't make me feel good about 2e.
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I just don't get the wait. We could all have alpha rules now while the real playtest is still getting changed.
Paizo could have thousands of people pouring over their current rules and pointing out unexpected combos or expressing confusion about wording.
Right now it feels like I'm being marketed too not that I'm being invited for feedback and it doesn't make me feel good about 2e.
Feedback will be welcome in about four months.
For now, the healthiest mindset is to compile questions you want to explore when the final document becomes available. It's going to be big, so knowing what we care about will help us focus on the parts that matter to us.
Let's be honest. The window between the release of the playtest and the scheduled release of Pathfinder 2.0 is pretty short. They aren't looking for any feedback that suggest any major changes. They're looking for minor tweaks to what they already have essentially set in stone.
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If by that you mean the development of the game is going to be made by the developers, then yes.
When Blizzard opened a playtest for Over watch, they were asking for feedback for the game they had made. How to tweak and balance characters, and such. They did not expect the play testers to tell them "this game is a shooter. We want a real time strategy game like starvation. Go back and restart the whole process."
That said, things are still changing, and will change more in the playtest. Jason said some things they teased have already changed.
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By doing this like they do Paizo:
- gets the inevitable bunch of "YOU KICKED MY PUPPY I'M NEVER GOING TO BUY A NEW EDITION" people to vent their steam off,
- gets the equally inevitable bunch of previously permabanned people who return under new accounts (hoping to inflict some damage on Paizo as revenge for their permaban) kicked squarely out of the field,
- delivers me a ton of quality Schadenfreude.
And all this happens before the actual playtest begins. It's a win-win-win situation.
I am excited by this new edition. But I started this post because I had the feeling that the blog, by being way too generic, did not really reassured or convinced the players, like we can see in the comment section.
But now that Jason has answered, he puts my mind at ease. If even some things they teased are already changing, it is just that overestimate the value of these posts. It is indeed just a teasing. So I will keep my hype low until the playtest.
But yes sometimes I act like a child who wants more candies. It even more true with Pathfinder and RPGs in general. Because it is probably my favorite occupation, and where I put a huge part of my money.
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I just don't get the wait. We could all have alpha rules now while the real playtest is still getting changed.
Paizo could have thousands of people pouring over their current rules and pointing out unexpected combos or expressing confusion about wording.
Right now it feels like I'm being marketed too not that I'm being invited for feedback and it doesn't make me feel good about 2e.
Your assuming that exists in a form that isn't outlines/track changes/random notes, with little or no organization. I think if a playtest document was good to go, they would release it right now. From other comments it seems like it's still being written in places, and at the least needs basic editing.
A massive typo ridden, poorly worded document is just going to cause more confusion and make them look bad, and cause rule/design debates over trivial accidents.
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- gets the inevitable bunch of "YOU KICKED MY PUPPY I'M NEVER GOING TO BUY A NEW EDITION" people to vent their steam offAlanis Morissette should write a song about this portion of your post.
I think she did:
If it weren't for your nerdrage none of this would have happenedIf you weren't so fun to play beyond your years I would've been able to control myself
If it weren't for my attention you wouldn't have been successful and
If it weren't for me you would never have amounted to very much
Ooh this could be messy
But you don't seem to mind
Ooh don't go telling everybody
And overlook this supposed crime
We'll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
And I have honored your request for playtest
And you've washed your hands clean of this
You're essentially an employee and I like you having to depend on me
You're kind of my protege and one day you'll say you learned all you know from me
I know you depend on me like a young thing would to a guardian
I know you math me like a young thing would and I think I like it
Ooh this could be messy
you don't seem to mind
Ooh don't go telling everybody
overlook this supposed crime
We'll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
And I have honored your request for playtest
And you've washed your hands clean of this
What part of our history's reinvented and under rug swept?
What part of your memory is selective and tends to forget?
What with this distance it seems so obvious?
Just make sure you don't tell on me especially to members of your family
We best keep this to ourselves and not tell any members of our inner posse
I wish I could tell the world 'cause you're such a pretty thing when you're done up properly
I might want to play you one day if you watch that weight and keep your firm body
Ooh this could get messy
Ooh you don't seem to mind
Ooh don't go telling everybody
and overlook this supposed crime
We'll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
And I have honored your request for playtest
And you've washed your hands clean of this
Ooh this could get messy
Ooh I don't seem to mind
Ooh don't go telling everybody
and overlook this supposed crime
We'll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
And I have honored your request for playtest
And you've washed your hands clean of this
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By doing this like they do Paizo:
- gets the inevitable bunch of "YOU KICKED MY PUPPY I'M NEVER GOING TO BUY A NEW EDITION" people to vent their steam off,
- gets the equally inevitable bunch of previously permabanned people who return under new accounts (hoping to inflict some damage on Paizo as revenge for their permaban) kicked squarely out of the field,
- delivers me a ton of quality Schadenfreude.And all this happens before the actual playtest begins. It's a win-win-win situation.
I've come to a realization that is going to save me a lot of time between now and August and probably over the next year:
It's what I did when WoTC shut down 3.5E (I didn't close down that campaign until Mythic was available as an alternate to Epic - not until 2013 in fact) and it's what I'll do now. Or based on that probably closer to 2024 :)
Unfortunately, the major difference will be that unlike the 3.5E/Pathfinder thing, I'm definitely getting the impression that P2E materials will *not* be particularly compatible with P1E. Shame, but doesn't really change my plan much - just means I won't be able to use any of the shiny new books (which is unlike last time around).
This will save me untold hours reading pointless arguments about guesses as to what the rules are. Now that's a win :)
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I mean, there's a reason that the next two APs are, to borrow a phrase, "a doozy" and pretty much all the fluff in Planar adventures is going to be applicable to any version of Pathfinder you can name.
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I'm liking the interplay of the class previews with the game mechanic ones. However I will say some of the sequencing could have been better . Ie this "four degrees of success" one is, to me, one of the defining pillars upon which they're building/balancing everything else. The proficiency is also pretty foundational (but needs at least one sample skill better teased/shown what category of things get gated at each tier, sample feats, etc to help us build a good mental model). Actions was also foundational. The leveling up one, and the a la mode one, weren't as strong, IMO for understanding their design goals or how everything fits together.
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Maybe Paizo should stick with mechanics posts rather than class previews. Much better track record with the former...
I agree with this. The class posts don't mean a whole lot because we can't quantify what the class mechanics are when they are largely baked into the base mechanics of the game. As one example, the Rogue getting twice the amount of Skill feats than anyone else is unquantifiable because we don't know what Skills (and proficiency in those skills) can do precisely. If a character's Skill Feats are X, and a Rogue gets 2X, then what is X worth? We don't know, because we don't even have a number to go off of to help estimate X's raw value.
Similarly, a Fighter getting Master proficiency in a Weapon group prior to anyone else might sound cool, but what does Master proficiency in a Weapon group provide? The blogs don't exactly state what that means for the class (other than what, a +2 to hit based on generic proficiency rules? Which isn't exactly a whole lot to be excited about, it's just a number), especially since we are told that you can do cool, unique, and exciting things with proficiency in certain skills, equipment, etc.
In short, I'd rather have the base mechanics to work with first so I can better mesh what those posts have to say with what the class posts have to say. This way, people drawing all of these "doom and gloom" posts (yes I'm guilty of this here and there) are less likely to do so, and they will have a better understanding of how the game works, and how the classes function in relation to the game, so they can give more productive posts besides "WTF does that do, I'm so confused, this game's gonna suck, PF1 is better, waaaaahh!!"
I disagree.
I like finding out details on what the classes can do. I trust Paizo on core mechanics- it's little stuff like how bloodlines or school spells or familiars work that I want details on.
Having a spread lets us gradually get a better picture. The Fighter preview helps give a sense for what your actions are worth, and what sort of tradeoffs you can make.
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Glad to see the Criticals blog had more details and examples. That sort of thing helps.
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I disagree.
I like finding out details on what the classes can do. I trust Paizo on core mechanics- it's little stuff like how bloodlines or school spells or familiars work that I want details on.
Having a spread lets us gradually get a better picture. The Fighter preview helps give a sense for what your actions are worth, and what sort of tradeoffs you can make.
Sure, but when those class details are closely linked to the core mechanics of the game (like skills, proficiencies, etc.), and there aren't many core mechanics to go off of, the idea that the class details give a good impression on what the class is capable of is dubious.
Glad to see the Criticals blog had more details and examples. That sort of thing helps.
Yes, this blog really knocked it out of the park. Very well focused and organized, very clearly articulated, and it hit the perfect balance between teasing new stuff while not giving everything away. Kudos to Mark.
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Glad to see the Criticals blog had more details and examples. That sort of thing helps.Yes, this blog really knocked it out of the park. Very well focused and organized, very clearly articulated, and it hit the perfect balance between teasing new stuff while not giving everything away. Kudos to Mark.
Thanks guys, but there was a lot of foundational information necessary to allow this blog to be both clear and detailed. If this had just been the first blog, it would have been really confusing!