Resonance is a special thing that special people have more of. It's a form of power intrinsic to level and charisma.
It also hasn't shown up in any fantasy setting I've ever read. PF 2e Golarion can have it easily because the writers of that setting are also writing these rules. With Golarion in mind, you can add certain fantasy conceits and "buy in" concepts that don't fit the fantasy genre or even D&D Fantasy as a whole because it fits the one setting that's Infused in the rules. Other setting considerations will just matter less because if you are playing the game, then the setting should just be something like Golarion.
"But D&D basically does this" D&D Fantasy has also become it's open genre after decades of play. Can/should Paizo try to make Pathfinder Fantasy it's own genre? Is that what consumers want.
I'm not married to D&D sacred cows, but It's been bugging me that I can't imagine Starfinder being used outside the Starfinder setting and I think that is because many of the mechanics seen alright but only really make sense in that setting not that genre, which really limits the # of campaign ideas our group will have with that system because when tend to not revisit settings after a campaign.
I'm concerned that PF 2e will be a great game, but we won't play it because GMs homebrew their own settings and campaigns.
Like even if resonance is a cool mechanic and makes everything more fun, if it doesn't make sense in other settings, then the mechanic is a reason we wouldn't play the game.
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Nah, I don’t think so.
I’ve read fantasy novels where you couldn’t drink too many healing potions or magic items are special things you invest power in.
I mean, in very few fantasy settings do I see anybody with a camelpack of potion to sip on throughout a fight, and the only ones I see with characters loading up as many magical items as possible are based on MMOs. So “magic items are not unlimited” seems fair enough. The actual mechanic of “charisma and experience expands that limit” can be tweaked if it gets in the way of a custom setting, but it doesn’t seem much more intrusive than item slots and the two ring, one amulet limit.
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Did you know that in the base rules of Pathfinder Create Undead has the [Evil] descriptor. You literally can’t create undead and treat it as a good act. Even a friendly ghost. Or a helpful skeleman.
Did you know that the Summon Monster list has a very specific number and type of creatures you can summon with it and that list skews towards evil monsters?
Did you know that in the Core Rulebook halflings are described as: “Optimistic and cheerful by nature, blessed with uncanny luck and driven by a powerful wanderlust, halflings make up for their short stature with an abundance of bravado and curiosity.” Completely at odds with their Tolkienesque homebody nature?
Did you know that in the Pathfinder 1.0 Core Rulebook the Pathfinder Chronicler is a CORE prestige class?
Did you know that in Pathfinder 1.0 it’s assumed that mask wearing vigilantes stalk the rooftops of the cities, kineticists channel extraplanar energies, and Inquisitors hunt down heretics? None of these classes exist in “D&D Fantasy”.
Resonance as a system basically says in order to function a magic item needs some energy from the wielder (very Elric of Melnibone if you ask me).
All home games make changes to flavour, all home games make changes to rules where required.
One of the draws for me is the setting infusion. I like games that give me a vision for what they are being designed to deliver. I've never been able to last long in generic made for homebrew game systems, because I dont have that reference.
With that said, I think resonance is simply a game construct. It sounds like there are designs for a particular class to really work with resonance, but its still a game construct. I dont see how the system is limited by Golarion.
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It's a rule, that probably will have an in-world explanation, but that rarely locks in one setting.
It's like Vancian magic, or divine spellcasting, or innate spellcsting... They're pieces of lore that can be fit into any setting.
One of the draws for me is the setting infusion. I like games that give me a vision for what they are being designed to deliver. I've never been able to last long in generic made for homebrew game systems, because I dont have that reference.
With that said, I think resonance is simply a game construct. It sounds like there are designs for a particular class to really work with resonance, but its still a game construct. I dont see how the system is limited by Golarion.
I like the setting books in Savage Worlds, but I wouldn't use those expansions outside of that setting.
I've seen other systems with generic core rules, genre specific splat books, and setting specific crunch that work just fine.
Starfinder seems like a fine game, but we're never going to play it because we already used the setting for a different system. Our group has 7 players, so if Solar doesn't work in a setting, we don't even have enough classes for everyone to play different ones.
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I don't even see how Resonance would fit into the current setting all of a sudden unless something drastic happens, like Nethys going mental
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I feel like "you can only wear two magic rings" is every bit as arbitrary and gamey as resonance, honestly.
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I don't even see how Resonance would fit into the current setting all of a sudden unless something drastic happens, like Nethys going mental
Low-level characters can’t wear lots of magic items. Low-level characters couldn’t afford lots of magic items.
You can’t drink a ton of potions. People didn’t drink a ton of potions, that was too expensive.You can’t spam a wand of CLW. That wasn’t part of the setting, except for maybe Razmiran priests, who focused on charisma anyway.
Characters at high levels might not be able to wear all the magic items they get. That was already true because of slots.
I’m not seeing much of an issue with Golarian having the rules representing it changing.
clerics supplying there worshippers with fixed numbers of spells and Vancian casting are also things not employed in a lot of fantasy settings.
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I don't even see how Resonance would fit into the current setting all of a sudden unless something drastic happens, like Nethys going mental
Going mental? Where do you think I've been since my ascension?
More seriously, it'd be a big change to how magic operates, and people would notice (or, at least they should notice). Do you seriously think nobody's tried wearing 4 rings, only for it to be noted down that only two were functional? If an aging king drops dead because he suddenly loses the effects of his Belt of Mighty Constitution midsummer 4219 AR, you expect nobody to ask why?
I guess I shouldn't complain too much about the scarcity of people finding out how the multiverse really operates. Otherwise, this position may have been filled by the time I came along.
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TBH, I don't think that "full of stand-ins for familiar Earth cultures," "wide availability of magic as posited by 3.x D&D," and "makes a lot of sense if you think it through" are really compatible setting design goals; you can pick any two, really. Golarion picks the first two, which isn't bad - it's what I'd choose if I wanted something to sell a diverse array of adventure paths for - but if you want to go with another option, that's what the joy of worldbuilding is for, and then it's up to you whether you want to think about how exactly Resonance works, jettison it entirely, &c.
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Did you know that in the Core Rulebook halflings are described as: “Optimistic and cheerful by nature, blessed with uncanny luck and driven by a powerful wanderlust, halflings make up for their short stature with an abundance of bravado and curiosity.” Completely at odds with their Tolkienesque homebody nature?
That's been a thing for a while. Ever since kender were introduced, halflings have veered more and more away from hobbits and towards kender.
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Did you know that in the Core Rulebook halflings are described as: “Optimistic and cheerful by nature, blessed with uncanny luck and driven by a powerful wanderlust, halflings make up for their short stature with an abundance of bravado and curiosity.” Completely at odds with their Tolkienesque homebody nature?That's been a thing for a while. Ever since kender were introduced, halflings have veered more and more away from hobbits and towards kender.
Not actually my point, but okay.
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People didn’t drink a ton of potions, that was too expensive.
Naw, that's totally a thing in wizard college.
I really don’t see any issues with this mechanic being introduced, lore wise. It’s a new game, the books will be new, characters will be new, the whole setting will very likely be new in several ways. I think it is very unlikely they are going to just use the exact same setting material and lore that has been used for the last decade.
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I really don’t see any issues with this mechanic being introduced, lore wise. It’s a new game, the books will be new, characters will be new, the whole setting will very likely be new in several ways. I think it is very unlikely they are going to just use the exact same setting material and lore that has been used for the last decade.
They have pretty much said that, aside from integrating ap’s and such that is exactly what they are doing. Using the same setting material and lore.
Franchise Manager
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I really don’t see any issues with this mechanic being introduced, lore wise. It’s a new game, the books will be new, characters will be new, the whole setting will very likely be new in several ways. I think it is very unlikely they are going to just use the exact same setting material and lore that has been used for the last decade.They have pretty much said that, aside from integrating ap’s and such that is exactly what they are doing. Using the same setting material and lore.
To the people of Golarion, there will be no noticeable change between game editions. As far as they're concerned, it's just the natural passage of time. Game rules are abstractions to help players tell stories at the game table, not an infallable system of natural and metaphysical laws that govern what can and can't take place in the setting or that the setting's inhabitants are even aware of.
There are a ton of mechanics that don't have an "in-world" analog. It's not like fighters get together and talk about what feats they're going to take next, or even that they're both fighters. To most people on Golarion, they'd simply know that some people seem more attuned to magic items than others. In 1E, maybe that meant those "more attuned" folks had ranks in UMD. In 2E, maybe they have more resonance.
(edited for clarity)
I honestly kind of like the implication of resonance- that everybody has the potential to work magic. It's assuredly harder for some than others, but the fact that everybody's going to have resonance (at least past a certain level) and thus the abililty to work magic in some sense makes a lot more sense to me in a world in which magic is real and very useful. It at least makes more sense to me than "the person who cares exclusively about swords who neglects to learn how to do basic magic that could make their life easier".
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The implication sure ... however the implications it’s going to have on game play I am much less sanguine about.
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...It's not like fighters get together and talk about what feats they're going to take next, or even that they're both fighters. To most people on Golarion...
Idk that much about Golarion, but Fighter is as much a thing that you are in our campaigns as people are Wizards or Sorcerers.
I'm suspecting that in testing we will decide to test resonance applying to consumables and not to see which feels right.
I'm fine with it being tied to your item slots. Good replacement and makes character sheets easier.
It hasn't been confirmed but I'm thinking the setting infusion is to help make getting rules clarifications easier, unlike PF1.
I really don’t see any issues with this mechanic being introduced, lore wise. It’s a new game, the books will be new, characters will be new, the whole setting will very likely be new in several ways. I think it is very unlikely they are going to just use the exact same setting material and lore that has been used for the last decade.They have pretty much said that, aside from integrating ap’s and such that is exactly what they are doing. Using the same setting material and lore.
I didn’t mean that they will be going to a new setting and a new world, but that they will not just be copying and pasting all of the previous material for use in this system. I said that there will be new things about the setting, and one of those things is going to be that resonance has always been a thing. Or at least that’s my assumption, because writing in some sort of lore explanation for why resonance is now a thing and alchemists work differently and everybody gets a class feat at even numbered levels would be pretty dumb.
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I don't even see how Resonance would fit into the current setting all of a sudden unless something drastic happens, like Nethys going mentalLow-level characters can’t wear lots of magic items. Low-level characters couldn’t afford lots of magic items.
You can’t drink a ton of potions. People didn’t drink a ton of potions, that was too expensive.
You can’t spam a wand of CLW. That wasn’t part of the setting, except for maybe Razmiran priests, who focused on charisma anyway.
Characters at high levels might not be able to wear all the magic items they get. That was already true because of slots.
I’m not seeing much of an issue with Golarian having the rules representing it changing.
Razmirans are dumb and suck CONFIRMED BY DEVS!? Hahahah.
Imagine if they get a regional feat/archetype thing that lets you use healing magic items more often, maybe ignore resonance for them. Suddenly PFS will be "All hail the mighty Razmir!"
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So I guess they're going to ignore/retcon it, then. Eh, a bit boring, but it could be worse.
"Hey guys, why can't I drink more than one or two potions a day?"
"Because you're ugly, and nobody likes you. Now shut up, Timmy."
"But last year, I drank five in one sitting."
"By the Dawnflower, SHUT UP TIMMY!"
"Don't you want to know why I had fi-"
"NO! STOP TALKING!"
"Ok..."
And so nobody noticed.
So I guess they're going to ignore/retcon it, then. Eh, a bit boring, but it could be worse.
"Hey guys, why can't I drink more than one or two potions a day?"
"Because you're ugly, and nobody likes you. Now shut up, Timmy."
"But last year, I drank five in one sitting."
"By the Dawnflower, SHUT UP TIMMY!"
"Don't you want to know why I had fi-"
"NO! STOP TALKING!"
"Ok..."And so nobody noticed.
Timmy can still chug as many potions as he wants.
Beyond a certain point most of them just won't do anything.
And if you are continuing a campaign from 1e into 2e and you REALLY need to adress this minor detail, that your character drank a few more potions and had effects from them that one time, than he did this time. You can just say he got lucky that time.
It was just a joke.
But that does bring up the fun idea of converting existing characters.
I think I'm just going to [JOKE]chain that thought to the basement radiator[/JOKE] until at least august, though.