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So with the new version coming our way, is there going to be Prestige Classes included in the Core book, and will they be fixed to be up to the same standard as the main classes/Archtypes and be accessible at earlier levels?
I believe the entry point should be (and should have been in PF) at around 4th level, with some niche PrC's released later on (and the Assassin) having an entry point later at 6th level.
Thoughts?
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Given how much they were downplayed in PF1E (have they even published any in years?), I imagine Prestige Classes may never return. If they do show up at all though, it will probably be in PF2E's version of the Advanced Player's Guide.
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I would be happy to see this bit of 3e die, honestly.
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I'm a sucker for prestige classes, I can't help it. Even so, there are so many of them that just work better as archetypes of existing classes. Looking at the ones presented in the CRB/APG
- Arcane Archer: would make great sense as a magus archetype. If magus is fated not to return in favor of fighter/wizard archetypes, then would be fine as an option of further specialization.
- Arcane Trickster: magic rogue archetype or roguish magic archetype.
- Assassin: The main shtick of this prestige class should really be nothing more than a specialist tool available to sneaky-fighty types rather than a whole thing unto itself. A slayer archetype of fighty or roguish types.
- Dragon Disciple: I feel that this is done just as well with the draconic bloodrager. I would hope that bloodrager is subsumed as an archetype of barbarian and/or sorcerer instead.
- Duelist: swashbuckling archetype of fighty, roguish types.
- Eldritch Knight: see Arcane Archer.
- Loremaster: much like the assassin, this probably works better as just a way to further specialize with wizard/alchemist/bard types than something by itself.
- Shadowdancer: also probably works better as an available area of specialization to the stealth skill.
- Battle Herald: should probably be an archetype of bard that doubles down on inspiration in exchange for spellcasting, or an archetype of Cavalier (assuming those aren't just fighter/paladin archetypes in the first place) that adds inspiration in exchange for mounted abilities. This is one of the more specific prestige classes to begin with.
- Holy Vindicator: martial archetype of cleric (like warpriest became) or alignment agnostic version of paladin (if such a thing even still makes sense in PF2).
- Horizon Walker: this really seems like it should have been an archetype of ranger or druid all along.
- Master Chymist: should really just be an archetype of alchemist that lets you play this way your whole career.
- Master Spy: should really just be an area of specialization for roguish types rather than its own thing.
- Nature Warden: should also probably be an archetype of druid and/or ranger in the first place.
- Rage Prophet: another extremely specific prestige class that would be better served as an archetype of one or both of its parents.
- Stalwart Defender: should probably be an area of specialization for fighty types rather than its own thing.
The only prestige classes in these books that really feel to me like they belong as prestige classes instead of something else are the Mystic Theurge and Pathfinder Chronicler. The Mystic Theurge just feels wrong to me as an archetype or base class, since it's a blending of (supposed) opposites. I'd love for it to be expanded into something that can blend together any two types of magic (Divine/Psychic? Arcane/Psychic? Why not!). The Chronicler could (and probably should) be an archetype for bard types, but just feels weird that way given the flavor of it.
They said that something "you might call a prestige class" exists in the book. It sounds like something similar to the concept exists, but is different.
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I personally like prestige classes. Both for getting the "advance two different kinds of class features" combos such as mystic theurge and rage prophet, but also for the ones with unique powers that you can access a variety of ways such as dragon disciple and shadowdancer.
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In Unearthed Arcana, the Bard, Paladin and Ranger were all 15 level Prestige classes. I would not mind that. (It also had Paladins of Freedom, Honor, Slaughter and Tyranny. I wouldn't mind that either.)
I agree with Leedwashere, most Prestige Classes could become Archetypes...except the Mystic Theurge. I would not mind if the Mystic Theurge became a 15 level Prestige Class as well.
I personally like prestige classes. Both for getting the "advance two different kinds of class features" combos such as mystic theurge and rage prophet, but also for the ones with unique powers that you can access a variety of ways such as dragon disciple and shadowdancer.
I am really hoping that instead of patching the multiclassing rules with a bunch of very specific and nitpicky Prestige Classes, they just admit they're broken and actually fix them.
Dragon Disciple and Shadowdancer are perfect examples of what PrCs should be, but it's a shame you have to give up being a Rogue to become a Shadowdancer-- I would prefer that PrCs work more like additions to base classes instead of replacements.
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I freely admit that I love Paizo's approach of tying Prestige Classes to the Campaign Setting and hope the future version of Prestige Classes in the core rulebook get ties to the Campaign Setting.
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They said that something "you might call a prestige class" exists in the book. It sounds like something similar to the concept exists, but is different.
Calling it now: Paragon Paths. It's an additive thing that bolts onto your class and it helps you explore a new flavor to your character (so a cleric might be the divine herald of their god, while a fighter might be the destined king. Although if a fighter wanted to and planned to they could become the divine herald instead).
Like I said previously, I would rather they took the Prestige Classes and fleshed them out to become full classes in their own right.
For myself, I like the idea of prestige classes. Makes me feel like it's rewarding meaninful decisions made by the character. To borrow a military thought, I'd hate the idea of Special Forces being an archetype for a class rather than a skill set that had to be developed or earned over time. I can see why some would want them to be archetypes, again, myself, would rather keep options open for developed characters over play.
I'd like to see generic things like eldritch knight and shadow dancer rolled into archetypes. Prestige classes should be heavy in Golarion flavor like Hellknight and Red Mantis Assassin. IMO.
I freely admit that I love Paizo's approach of tying Prestige Classes to the Campaign Setting and hope the future version of Prestige Classes in the core rulebook get ties to the Campaign Setting.
Yep! Notable that the guy in this thread listing the "redundant" ones mostly stuck with the generic ones and not the "Golarion-flavored" prestiges. These lore-y ones are the best because they add a lot of flavor that is not just in the "mechanics". They represent membership to organizations or special beliefs and make your char really feel like part of the world.
So yeah, all in for Red Mantis Assassin, Hellknigh, Prophet of Kalistrade, Razmiran and such.
They said "something that was once a prestige class in 1st edition is going to be in this book", implying that perhaps prestige classes are going to be reworked into some other system, possibly something akin to VMC.
I don't think that Prestige classes are so important that they merit inclusion in the core book if that same space could be devoted to more universally useful material. If they do bring them back, I think they could wait until a future sourcebook. It's not like they didn't reprint the whole rules text about how prestige classes work basically every time they printed one.
I don't think I saw a single PrC in all my years of playing PF1, and I didn't feel like anything was missing.
They said that something "you might call a prestige class" exists in the book. It sounds like something similar to the concept exists, but is different.Calling it now: Paragon Paths. It's an additive thing that bolts onto your class and it helps you explore a new flavor to your character (so a cleric might be the divine herald of their god, while a fighter might be the destined king. Although if a fighter wanted to and planned to they could become the divine herald instead).
Paragon Paths were actually one of 4E's very good ideas. It's a shame that 4E's terrible system of class and power design didn't do the idea justice, but as a system where you bolt extra thematics and abilities on top of a proper Pathfinder-style class it would work out really great.
Then we can get Paladins as a prestige again, like they were in the earliest days of D&D and the way they should have stayed. Bolt Paladin onto Fighter like in the old days, bolt Paladin onto Cleric if you want something more like a Jedi Consular...
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One of my hobbies is taking Prestige Classes and working them into a new Base Class similar to the way Archetypes work now.
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I freely admit that I love Paizo's approach of tying Prestige Classes to the Campaign Setting and hope the future version of Prestige Classes in the core rulebook get ties to the Campaign Setting.Yep! Notable that the guy in this thread listing the "redundant" ones mostly stuck with the generic ones and not the "Golarion-flavored" prestiges. These lore-y ones are the best because they add a lot of flavor that is not just in the "mechanics". They represent membership to organizations or special beliefs and make your char really feel like part of the world.
So yeah, all in for Red Mantis Assassin, Hellknigh, Prophet of Kalistrade, Razmiran and such.
Yeah, I agree with this. And honestly I think that's the only reason for prestige classes to exist anymore. With the amount of flexibility provided by archetypes and multiclassing, I don't think there's a good reason for prestige classes to exist as something gated behind specific level, skill, or feat prerequisites UNLESS it is tied to developments in the specific campaign.
I know on the forums we love theory crafting in a vacuum and coming up with level 1-20 builds, and I can see why that is often advisable... But I think a bit of spontaneous multiclassing (or prestiging) based on developments in the story is really cool. I'd even argue prestige classes should maybe drop mechanical prerequisites in favor of story achievements, so any PC playing through that campaign has the option to adopt it if they so choose.
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I personally wouldn't mind either way. I do prefer setting-related prestige classes, since they're actually prestigious and represent "Guild Secrets" or similar.
While I do like PrCs for harmonizing two different concepts, I prefer archetypes for being a "less invasive" way to do it. Though they end up more replacing one class's features for those of another rather than stacking with two different ones, they also give less of a feel of lagging behind for a few levels.
With the Archtypes being a little more open (IE: not tied to specific classes) we will probably see some Prestiege classes become Archetypes.
One of my hobbies is taking Prestige Classes and working them into a new Base Class similar to the way Archetypes work now.
Not all heroes wear capes. PF only, or do you work some 3.5 in there?
One of my hobbies is taking Prestige Classes and working them into a new Base Class similar to the way Archetypes work now.Not all heroes wear capes. PF only, or do you work some 3.5 in there?
It started in 3.0, but it's continued since. I expect to start doing the same with Starfinder once some more Archetypes are released (And I finish my BA . . . One more quarter to go). When I play a Pathfinder charater with an Archetype, especially when it's as involved as the Archaeologist, I like to make a compiled class chart that incorporates all the changes so I don't have to flip through several books to level up.