I was thinking again on the topic of balancing casters vs fighters and it occurred to me that three simple and easy to implement changes would alter the math significantly:
- Remove the +5 limit on magic weapons and armor (this is already gone for those of us who play epic)
- Halve the cost of magic weapons
- Halve the cost of magic armor (not including Bracers of Defense, Rings of Protection, etc..)
One concern is that gives Clerics (and other armored casters) a large boost. If that turns out to be a significant issue, it might be better to halve the cost of magic weapons, but not magic armor.
What are your thoughts?
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This accomplishes little.
The disparity in power does not come from the Fighter not being able to access bigger numbers, but from the Fighter not cultivating more meaningful options relative to the mage.
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what about just doubling the effects when used by non 9th or 6th level casters? that way no cleric boosts and is effectively the same as halving the costs
That's a wee bit more complex.
but what should really be done is just give the non casters a daily point pool and they can use those points for cool stuff that mimics what some spells can do
I really don't want to turn fighters into casters.
The disparity in power does not come from the Fighter not being able to access bigger numbers, but from the Fighter not cultivating more meaningful options relative to the mage.
I really don't want to turn fighters into casters.
Fighters, in general, don't want to be casters -- or they would have rolled up casters.
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Cheaper magic weapons won't fix:
Casters being the ones who can control the situation; scrying for information, flying, teleporting around, hiding whenever they want, being the only ones with the protection spells you need to survive, etc.
Optimized casters being able to end a battle in round one by targeting a weak saving throw.
Certain casters (e.g. Magus) being able to do as well in melee as a martial while also having a lot more other abilities.
To me, a house-rule to reduce disparity would have to be something like:
Pure martials being better than casters at skills, saving throws, etc.
Some kind of magic-resistance hit points to make Save or Suck less effective.
New items that only a martial character can use effectively - swords that give area-effect damage based on your strength and BAB, Acrobatics-based teleportation, that sort of thing.
Some kind of negative effect for casual use of magic, like a 1% chance of catastrophic spell failure.
A complete ban on certain classes.
But these are all pretty drastic changes.
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I was thinking again on the topic of balancing casters vs fighters and it occurred to me that three simple and easy to implement changes would alter the math significantly:
- Remove the +5 limit on magic weapons and armor (this is already gone for those of us who play epic)
- Halve the cost of magic weapons
- Halve the cost of magic armor (not including Bracers of Defense, Rings of Protection, etc..)
One concern is that gives Clerics (and other armored casters) a large boost. If that turns out to be a significant issue, it might be better to halve the cost of magic weapons, but not magic armor.
What are your thoughts?
It's not a numbers problem. The problem is the list of things that casters can do that non-casters can't (or can only do with difficulty and by spending a lot of money).
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A high level Fighter can already have overwhelming numbers; Wizards, on the other hand, a multitude of ways to make it so numbers don't matter as much or even at all.
If this were a tactical combat game, I actually wouldn't have a problem with the caster/martial disparity, since fighters and their ilk fulfill an important tactical niche within the party. The problem is that it's a roleplaying game, and having a few characters covering a wide range of narrative niches while others fulfill only a single narrow purpose isn't conductive.
It's not a numbers problem. The problem is the list of things that casters can do that non-casters can't (or can only do with difficulty and by spending a lot of money).
That's a completely separate issue.
Let's take that to a completely separate thread.
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I really don't want to turn fighters into casters.
Fighters, in general, don't want to be casters -- or they would have rolled up casters.
Then there's only so much you can do to bring fighters up.
Therefore, you have to bring casters down.
Options!
1) Unlimited 9th level casting is an inherently broken and unbalanceable mechanic. Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Witch, Arcanist, Shaman. All of them. Getting all the spells on your list either automatically or at a low scribing cost is just too much power and freedom to ever bring in line. So, turn everybody into a spontaneous caster, with a limit on spells known, so that every spell they do have access to has a meaningful opportunity cost. This doesn't fix the problem, but it certainly makes it less of a problem.
You could give the same treatment to the other prepared casters, but honestly, 6th-level casting and below, unlimited prepared casting is much less of a problem, and I'd consider it more because spontaneous casting as a mechanic takes less table time than for balance reasons.
2) Kill God. Ban all 9th-level casters. And probably also the Summoner, since it's around that same tier of power, and is kind of a 9th level caster in disguise. You don't need them in a game, and it's a level of power and options that is prone to generating negative play experience, especially in the company of those who really don't get any meaningful options. You can have a party that's Mesmerist, Warpriest, Fighter, Ranger, and you have a solid, well-rounded team that can all contribute meaningfully standing side by side. And no, this does not mean cutting out the character concepts those 9th-level casting classes represent. The classes are tools, not labels that necessarily exist in-world. If you want to be a wizard, as in a person who wears a silly hat, reads books that are heavy with knowledge, and make weird stuff happen with their nerdiness, you have plenty of options. Bard, Alchemist, and most of the occult classes are perfectly legitimate for the character concept of a wizard, and you can move your casting stat to whatever you want for just a feat.
3) Acknowledge tiers. Use tiers. Find yourself a decent tier list and make sure everyone's playing a class from within a couple tiers of one another so they're on more or less an even keel. In practice, this turns into #2, since there are almost no muggles within two tiers of a full caster. But session zero to create a balanced party on the same general power level goes a long way.
4) Opportunity cost.
Let's take the Wizard as an example, since they're easy, and take a look at the schools of magic. Just for being a Wizard, you can use magic to blow things up, use magic to protect people, use magic to deceive people, use magic to control people, use magic to know things, use magic to change things, use magic to make things, and use magic to write sad poetry alone in a dark room, all equally and immediately available at the same time just for being you. And that's on top of the immense flexibility of the hundreds if not thousands of spells in those headers. And no, specialization is not a meaningful damper on this.
Even limited spells known is not much of a damper, as once you know the spell, you cast it approximately as well as anybody who knows the spell. Knowing two similar damage dealing spells is redundant as you generally can't use them both at once, so a typical Sorcerer is going to bounce all over the map. They're going to have an illusion effect of some sort, a mind control effect of some sort, a decent damage spell to fall back on, control spells targeting each of the three saves, a flight effect, at least one summon spell, something to change the terrain, and so on; this vast and wildly disparate cabinet of tools.
In 3.5, the 9th level casters who were the least problematic were the ones who were thematically constrained. The Beguiler was a magic thief that could do enchantment and illusion spells. The Warmage blew stuff up. The Dread Necromancer necromanced dreadfully. The Healer... was actually just really horrible even when it came to being a Healer but actually makes a good class for an NPC traveling with the party. But you could have any one of those next to a Fighter and you'd be fine, because you don't have mages who do everything. You have mages who do something.
One of the most sane fixes I've seen is Spheres of Power. Instead of automatically getting everything, you choose. As a sphere casting class levels up, they get talents. They can use talents to either open up a sphere they don't have yet, or get a new perk for a sphere they've already unlocked. So, if you unlock the Destruction sphere, you get a close range bludgeoning ray that does half your level in d6's of damage at will, or your full level if you spend a spell point. If you want longer range, different elements, different shapes, or debuff effects on that blast, you're spending talents in the destruction sphere. Or you can settle for your close range bludgeoning blast as a side arm and instead focus on advancing a different sphere. If you want to have access to every sphere, that's a very ambitious goal, it will take a ton of talents, it's not something you'll be able to do right off the bat, and even when you do, you're not going to be very good at any of them.
Mages who can do some things. Not everything. Way more balanced. And it brings in the roleplaying consideration of what kind of magic you're studying, instead of simply all of it.
Also, on the flip side, Spheres of Might does a lot of cool stuff to make muggles more effective without turning them into casters like I'm guessing you feel Paths of War does. Much lower barrier of entry to get useful options that make sense for a muggle and are much more interesting than hit thing with stick and sometimes maybe do the one or two combat maneuvers that I spent many feats to make viable.
Also, feat tax rules help. Not much, but they help.
This thread is completely off the rails.
If I could delete it, I would.
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Sorry - you implied in your original post that the difference between Fighters and Wizards could be fixed with a few pluses, rather than (something about narrative agency), and now everyone who sees it is going to attempt to prove you wrong, probably without even reading the other posters who already said the same thing.
Time to stop reading the thread, I think.
IMO your better off improving the skill system then combat bonuses. Let skills do more impressive thing.
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Yeah numbers bonuses don't fix the tier system. Spellcasters are more powerful because they break the world around them. They have far more options both in and out of combat.
Balance Options
Risky casting- a sometimes terrible, sometimes nice option. Really this just depends on implementation
Make Fighters Casters- I don't mean literally give them magic. I mean give them limited use special abilities that accomplish the same tasks as magic. IE: super jump, arrow volley, etc
Skill Tricks- similiar to the above but the abilities are a bit more limited but infinite use. Just feats of being able to do mundane stuff that is well above average like wall jumping. Still can't balance against prepared casters due to the fact they can't swap everything out each day. Also there are still magic effects that don't have a mundane counterpart
Cripple Magic- limiting magic to around lv3 spells does keep the martial/caster disparity to a minimum. Most of the world breaking stuff comes from higher level spells and you still keep most playstyles viable. Higher level magics can be included still in the form of plot devices, consumable quest rewards, and difficult/expensive magic rituals
@OP sorry but you did ask our opinions :)
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@OP sorry but you did ask our opinions :)
Yes, much of this is my fault. I wanted to discuss balancing and instead seem to have initiated a thread on destroying the class system altogether.
There's really no reason fighters shouldn't be able to fly, turn invisible, teleport, and scry (all without relying on a wizard to cast these spells for them.)
Let's ban wizards and change fighters into ... umm... wizards.
Down With Wizards! Power To The Fighters! ¡Viva la Revolución!
There's really no reason fighters shouldn't be able to fly, turn invisible, teleport, and scry (all without relying on a wizard to cast these spells for them.)
They can, it's called potions (fly, invis) and other magic items (teleport, scry).
There is no way to do what you want in a world where people can alter the fabric of reality. There will always be disparities. There are things you could try (all non-casters get spell resistance for instance), but even those will have ways for the casters to get around them.
There is a reason why PFS "generally" ends when the spell casters are getting so powerful they end encounters themselves.
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@OP sorry but you did ask our opinions :)Yes, much of this is my fault. I wanted to discuss balancing and instead seem to have initiated a thread on destroying the class system altogether.
It sounds like you wanted to post in the homebrew forum, where people will usually let you tinker in peace. The advice forum, by contrast, is filled with people that want nothing more than to offer you suggestions and insights to give you a better handle on whatever situation you find yourself in - in this case, to better understand what the caster martial disparity is all about and how better numbers is quite possibly the last thing fighters need to keep up with casters.
Let's ban wizards and change fighters into ... umm... wizards.
Speaking of which...
Myth #5: The people talking about Caster-Martial Disparity want all the classes to be the same.
Also showing up in broader discussions about class balance, this myth is basically the idea that what the people complaining about C/MD are asking for is for all the classes to be essentially the same, with labels of "magical" and "nonmagical" slapped onto near-identical abilities. This one's slightly more complex than some others, as it can sprout from different stalks, so to speak. Let's try to unpack it.Sometimes, this myth arises when somebody first hears about the concept of C/MD and sees someone say that a high level martial should be able to duplicate plane shift or dimension door by (nonmagically) cutting open a hole in reality. The listener then understands C/MD to refer simply to classes having different abilities from each other, but doesn't see any real "disparity". In this case, this myth is a simple matter of the listener's first impression coming from a non-representative sample. Yeah, there are some folks out there who would like classes who are functionally near-identical. However, most people who complain about the C/MD want their classes to still be functionally different from each other, just brought closer in power.
Other times, this myth comes from a faulty mindset about the nature of balance. Many people wisely acknowledge that total balance among various game options is not possible (or even necessarily desirable). In fact, I think most people would agree to that. However, some folks seem to make one of two logical leaps: (1) believing that since perfect balance isn't a goal, improved balance shouldn't be a goal either; or (2) believing that the people who are complaining about C/MD are themselves striving for perfect balance. Please believe me when I say that neither of these is the case. While there might be a few outliers out there who wish for perfect balance, the bulk of C/MD discussion centers around simply improving balance, not smoothing everything into a homogeneous blur of nothingness.
Regardless of how one may have come to believe this myth of the desire for same-ness, please recognize that it is just that: a myth. The C/MD discussion is not about trying to make all the classes the same.
If you'd like to read the rest of Jiggy's C/MD myths (perhaps to help you avoid propagating them in the future), Jiggy offers a comprehensive writeup in the thread found here. 130 favorites so far, and that number tends to go up a bit every time I reference the post. :)
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Cripple Magic- limiting magic to around lv3 spells does keep the martial/caster disparity to a minimum. Most of the world breaking stuff comes from higher level spells and you still keep most playstyles viable. Higher level magics can be included still in the form of plot devices, consumable quest rewards, and difficult/expensive magic rituals
I'm totally with you now. I didn't see it at first, but there is absolutely no reason people need modules above 5th level.
People should play levels 1-5 and be happy. They can be even happier playing 20th level characters if they stick with 5th level modules. This will make their invisible teleporting fighters feel even more powerful when they AOE the mooks.
First, we get rid of all the casters, then, we get rid of all the dragons. We need to make D&D safe for everyone.
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Yeah, there are some folks out there who would like classes who are functionally near-identical. However, most people who complain about the...
I am totally with you. Your invisible flying scrying AEO-casting fighter is totally different, because she is using Ex abilities derived from feats. That's totally a different thing, it says so right on the box.
"First we kill all the wizards." -- William Shakespeare, Bard
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I'll ignore the sarcasm for now and take you at face value. Clearly you made this thread because you're not entirely opposed to the idea that there might be an imbalance between casters and martials, and I can respect your concerns that empowering martials will dilute class uniqueness.
Let's try some examples:
Swimming Master
Prerequisites: Str 18, 5 ranks in Swim.
You gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to 10 × your Constitution score, but afterward you must succeed at checks as normal to avoid drowning.
Climbing Master
Prerequisites: Str 18, 5 ranks in Climb.
You gain a climb speed equal to your base land speed and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. In addition, you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing. You can climb perfectly flat or smooth surfaces, treating them as if they had a Climb DC of 40.
Seven-league leap
Prerequisites: Str 24, 12 ranks in Acrobatics.
In order to use this ability, you must be able to run in a straight line for 1 minute. Any obstacles or impediments that prevent you from completing this sprint uninterrupted prevent you from being able to use this ability. At the end of your 1-minute sprint, you attempt an Acrobatics check and leap a distance up to half the check’s result in miles, rounded down to the nearest mile (for example, an Acrobatics check result of 29 would allow you to jump 14 miles). This trip takes 1 round per mile, and you reach a maximum height at the apex of your arc equal to half the distance traveled. You do not take falling damage from using this ability. You must have a clear arc of travel to complete this jump; if you strike an obstacle mid-jump, you and the obstacle each take a number of points of damage equal to 1d8 × the number of miles you have left to travel. If this damage destroys the obstacle, you continue your jump; otherwise, your jump comes to an end and you fall, taking falling damage as appropriate. You cannot aim this leap accurately, and always land 50 to 5,000 feet (5d%) from your intended destination.
Does a fighter using these feats strike you as totally similar to a wizard using spells?
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I have a three part opinion on the subject not everyone will like.
1) many will agree with me that pathfinder works best at low levels, where the math and crunch of the game is less clunky. And at lower levels the martial caster disparity is lower. Take the hint from pathfinder society which caps at level 12. I've only ever gotten to level 8 and at that point the 6th level casters and full martials shredded faces at similar rates. Wizards become slightly too powerful at this point but only barely. A level cap of 8 or 10 or 12 is a good idea. In my opinion the teens and level 20 make you into something of a marvel character with the power to destroy entire villages, cities and eventually nations. Game of thrones probably doesn't have a single character I'd put over level 7 or 8.
2) Most martials have an important role even if they're generally weaker. They protect the casters and place themselves in harm's way. And they don't need spells or preparation.
3) D&D is usually meant to be played as a dungeon crawl where resources per day matter greatly. Try playing for 6 hours and doing 4 or 5 combats. Eventually the wizard will be down to casting shield and grease and shooting a crossbow poorly. Or using a wand of a level one or two spell. The game is an endirance test.
Up to the opening post, there are no quick fixes.
Making magic equipment cheaper may seem like a good idea, but remember everyone can use them. Magic users would even benefit by craft items at double the rate, so it would be easy to have the whole party equipped with scrolls, potions, wands, weapons, and armor which would be nice for them but also make it harder for you it people have a new 50 charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds almost every day.
There are problems between martial and magic classes but they can really be fixed even if you just flat out say martials all become Superheroes, which they really are already.
Melee characters have to move up close through threatened areas to make a single attack per turn. Ranged characters can use Full-attack actions to stay in one place and fire as many Arrows, Bolts, or whatever as possible. Blaster casters dont even need to make a full action to use a "kamehameha". Tactically the martial classes are meant to be frontline characters, which is a problem when things gradually shift away from that to artillery duels.
Personally I just say give up and work with it so every players knows the benefits of magic and works around that. Its a magical world so trying to make characters that argue semantics like a Monk's super fists arent a power or the Barbarian taking 30 arrows to the chest isnt magical.
In Pathfinder there is very little to keep you from taking a multiclass, archetype, or just a full or partially magic class like a Magus or Bloodrager other than personal pride of how much you can do without magic and that only goes so far when youre going to need magic for better equipment or just healing.
If you are going to fix something you need to address what is really wrong. Tinkering with the equipment rules will not do anything to fix the caster vs fighter problem. Since all characters use the same rules for equipment any change you make will be able to be used by both casters and martials.
There are plenty of casters that would benefit from what you are proposing. In fact some of them would actually benefit more than the fighter. Most fighters specialize in a single weapon. That is usually the most expensive magic item they own. They also don’t need as many magic items as a caster. The armed caster has to purchase caster related item in addition to armor and weapons. This leads to most armed casters having inferior armor and weapons. Reducing the cost of armor and weapons means they will now be able to afford better equipment as well.
Even the wizard and sorcerer will get a boost. By reducing the cost of weapons you the pure arcane casters may decide to start using them. Sure they will not be doing as much damage as the martial characters, but it may be better than using low powered resources. The elven wizard with a decent DEX may just use a magic bow instead of a wand of some sort. They would not be using the bow vs the BBEG, but vs the low level minion it may be worthwhile. The savings in consumable items like wands could allow them to purchase better caster boosting item. This would also mean that they may not need their lower level spells for combat. By not having to use lower level spells in combat they can now use those for utility. The last thing you want is for the arcane casters to have even more versatility than they already do.
This is a bad Idea and it is going to make the problem worse instead of helping.
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If you are going to fix something you need to address what is really wrong. Tinkering with the equipment rules will not do anything to fix the caster vs fighter problem. Since all characters use the same rules for equipment any change you make will be able to be used by both casters and martials.
You'e completely right. I totally forgot about wizards wearing armor. And how silly to forget that high-level wizards are constantly melee'ing bad guys with +5 daggers.
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It may be an uncommon opinion....but I don't see anything that needs to be fixed.
A high level caster is supposed to be more powerful than a melee character. It's a fundamental part of a fantasy setting.
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In a RPG, it's generally a much better idea to significantly reign in the powerful classes FIRST, and then work from there at increasing any classes that are far below the curve.
The main reason for this is to avoid power creep as much as possible.
Exactly, that's why we start by ruining the game for wizards.
It's the only thing that makes sense.
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I like the term narrative power a fight can't get you to another plane, or become a house cat, they lack the ability to, and this is key, effortless change the story permanently.
In combats most classes when optimized kill an enemy a round unless th have defenses effective against that charater. Wind wall, miss chance, spell turning, sr and/or great saves.
The casters may be able to effectly take out several opponents in one round so that gives them an edge even in combat. Making fighters crazy good at killing may help to even that out but is does not help with the rest of the problem.
Caster by default can trip, bull rush, attack any of 3 saves, attack touch ac, regular ac, use sr no spells or in some cases skip all of the defenses all together. You could never hope to have this variety of options on a fighter.
They can also give them selves defenses against all of these things as well. Spell are 1000s of tiny customizable class features.
So here is my partial patch. Improved combat manuever, greater combat manuevers.
Mash all comabt manuever feats together to give martials more intresting options in combat. They still can't teleport or feeble mind but they can trip, grapple, blind, entangle etc. And if you allow dirty trick master a lot more.
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Here's how you do it, IMO:
Make all non-combat spells available as occult rituals. Make certain spells no longer available without occult rituals.
So if you want to cast "Fireball" you need to be a wizard, but if you need to cast "Plane Shift" or "Interplanetary Teleport" anybody who has read the right books and lights the right candles and speaks the correct invocations can do that.
The problem, after all is not "the fighter can't have big enough numbers in combat" the problem is that the fighter sits around out of combat and waits for the Wizard to cast the spell that advances the plot, which the fighter cannot.
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It may be an uncommon opinion....but I don't see anything that needs to be fixed.
A high level caster is supposed to be more powerful than a melee character. It's a fundamental part of a fantasy setting.I agree.
To my mind comparing casters and fighters is like comparing apples and oranges. I think it's more important to ensure that the various fighter classes are in balance with each other. And that the spellcasting classes are in balance with each other.
Then Why is a 20th level caster and a 20th level fighter the same CR? the System assumes they are the same (or near equivalent) challenge rating.
If this is not the case (which it is) then something is most definitely broken.
It's hard to remove the problem, but you can delay it a lot. For 9th level casters, make it where they can't cast a spell whose level is higher than 1+(characterLevel / 3). They still get the same slots and spells known as usual, but they have to choose lower level options to fill them and can use metamagic so the slots don't get under-utilized.
This solution has a number of benefits, such as removing or severely delaying the most problematic spells. And by basing it on character level, you make multiclassing as a spellcaster more interesting. I also like how this doesn't hurt low level casters at all, because everyone still gets their 2nd level spells at the same level as always, and 3rd level at the same or nearly the same level.
If you want, you could limit 6th level casters in a similar way, but using the formula 1 + (characterLevel / 4).
Didn't older D&d editions have different exp curves for different classes?
I don't like the xp penalty solution. It's boring for players to not get anything new for a long time. It hurts casters at low level when they need help most. It gets wonky with multiclassing. And it hurts casters in more than just their problem area of spells, such as with hit dice, attack and saves.
I feel like this is going to be a flame war soon.
In a campaign I was laying out I used consolidated skills from Unchained to make everyone more skilled, and I also banned 9th level casters. (For a story reason to get a specific low-fantasy flavor I prefer.)
I was thinking again on the topic of balancing casters vs fighters and it occurred to me that three simple and easy to implement changes would alter the math significantly:
- Remove the +5 limit on magic weapons and armor (this is already gone for those of us who play epic)
- Halve the cost of magic weapons
- Halve the cost of magic armor (not including Bracers of Defense, Rings of Protection, etc..)
One concern is that gives Clerics (and other armored casters) a large boost. If that turns out to be a significant issue, it might be better to halve the cost of magic weapons, but not magic armor.
What are your thoughts?
That this will do nothing to change the game, the game will play out just as it currently does without this change. Having another +1 faster or getting a +1 to your max limit is not going to help the fighters. A decent pretty basic fighter doesn't really have a hard time hitting things and avoiding being hit by things as is, so sure a few extra +s from gear will help them a little at being even better at those things. But this doesn't "fix" anything about balancing classes.
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Make everyone take a level of barbarian for level one! After that they can do what the want.
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I was thinking again on the topic of balancing casters vs fighters and it occurred to me that three simple and easy to implement changes would alter the math significantly:
- Remove the +5 limit on magic weapons and armor (this is already gone for those of us who play epic)
- Halve the cost of magic weapons
- Halve the cost of magic armor (not including Bracers of Defense, Rings of Protection, etc..)
One concern is that gives Clerics (and other armored casters) a large boost. If that turns out to be a significant issue, it might be better to halve the cost of magic weapons, but not magic armor.
What are your thoughts?
I have to echo a lot of the other posters in this thread that this 'solution' won't really fix anything.
The 'caster vs martial' issue isn't about dealing damage: A well built martial should probably do more damage than a caster in a single target fight (assuming full attacks are usable, which is why archer builds are so powerful). Heck my semi-mythic Oracle in WotR figured out by tier 4 that my best opening move in a boss fight was to Dimension Door the rest of the party into melee range so they could obliterate it (often before it got a chance to actually act): No attack roll needed (on my part), no saving throws, no SR.
Giving martials stronger weapons and armor doesn't do anything to deal with the real issue, which is that martials have a sword, while Casters have a swiss army knife with nearly the entire universe as attachments...
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There's not really a mechanical fix to this (assuming it's even broken in the first place; fundamentally it is "broken by design"). Casters simply have more options for doing more things in the game, and it's not just numbers. Anything that you do to try and raise fighters up or bring casters down in a meaningful fashion will mess up other aspects of the game, such as the CR system.
You can apply band-aids to the problem such as giving fighters more skills and reducing their feat taxes (these are good ideas, btw, and some GMs do both of these) but those are small steps. Small steps may be enough, though, if you're dealing with issues like the fighter wanting to be a party face but not having the skills to be effective.
The "best" fix for game balance is really a social one: the casters and martials need to work together to ensure they are both having fun. It's a cooperative game. That means casters stepping out of the limelight to support martials and letting the martials be even better at the things they are good at. When the situation calls for a non-martial solution, then that's when the casters step forward and take over.
It's really that simple. Everyone needs to be having fun. If the casters are getting in the way of fighters then someone is playing the game wrong. The only wrong way to play the game is at other peoples' expense.