Humans: An Endangered Species!!!


General Discussion


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The AP Absalom gazetteer states that the stations population is just over 2 million and 47% of that is human which means we have circa a million humans.

If Absalom is all that's left of Golarion does that mean this is the largest human settlement?

This seems very very small considering most planetary populations would be in the billions, making humans practically an endangered species. This seems an important aspect of a culture but I didnt see it particularly emphasized anywhere.

Now it might be that in 300 years since the gap the Absalom Station population has remained stable as people emigrate forming large populations elsewhere, who knows.

If not, I feel sorry for the gnomes, at 2% of absaloms population, they're almost extinct!


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Don't forget about the Azlanti Star Empire - they're not exactly warm and fuzzy, but they are human. :)


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Well on page 45 of the Core Rulebook,

Starfinder Humans wrote:
Humans first arose on Golarion, yet even before the disappearance of their home world, they had begun to spread out onto the other planets of the solar system, particularly Akiton. In the wake of Golarion’s vanishing, however, this group of explorers became inadvertent emigrants. Today, Absalom Station is the undisputed center of human culture, yet humans can be found on nearly every planet in the system, either integrated into alien societies or creating colonies and homesteads on new worlds.
Starfinder Humans wrote:
Humans are the glue that holds the rest of the solar system together. Their seemingly endless desire to explore and settle any habitable environment has positioned them perfectly to act as traders and mediators between other races, and their lack of their own planet often makes integrating into other cultures attractive to them.

Those two quotes make it seem like Absalom station is more like the cultural capitol of humanity, rather than it's primary homeland.


Many real-world countries only house 10-20% of the entire population in their capital cities (which are often the largest cities). From my impression, we're looking at a very diverse and spread-out universe, so it's probably even more extreme.


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Thanks I must have missed or forgotten that bit on page 45. So the majority of humans probably live off Absalom, I presume after 300 years (at least) of growth perhaps in even larger groupings?

So I guess we can assume the same for other major Golarion populations, eg Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings etc.

Time to get working on my Gnomish Space Stations and Settlements gazetteer ;-)


I'll take things we wish when we are standing in the line for a amusement park ride for 500 Alex.

Grand Lodge

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I mean, considering how advanced the levels of technology are, barring freak accident or space-plague, an extinction of a species seems unlikely. If all the gnomes died out, say, a lashunta bioengineer could still use stored genetic information to clone one.


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There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.


And a bunch of colonies and expat populations.

The only weird thing about SF humans is they are inexplicably still treated as a 'young' race, presumably because genre tropes and the ease of writing. (It always helps to have someone ignorant but relatable around to explain things to as an audience proxy- see Luke Skywalker). It seems really at odds with the vesk being the new player in the galactic neighborhood, at least to the pact worlds folks, and especially the shirren, who actually are a fairly recent development.

Even weirder is halflings are glossed over for most of the book, but if you read their race entry in the back, they're essentially the second most populous species after humans. Sadly I would trade out all the 'new' races for the old ones. They're just not interesting.

Dark Archive

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Vesk "Stay behind me hyoo-mon. Your people are too rare to be endangering yourselves like this."

Shirren "We really should find two more. I'm not comfortable with only having a single human, given their precarious condition. We should make sure to always have a proper breeding triad, just in case any more of their worlds get blown up, or disappear, or whatever."

Ysoki "I think they just need pairs to breed..."

Shirren "What? Weird. Whatever, the third can be a spare."


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There are no humans. Just dire halflings.


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Ventnor wrote:
There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.

Yup. They are probably the overwhelming majority of humans in the Pact Worlds.

that being said, there are humans all over the Pact Worlds, and likely many millions or billions of humans living beyond the Pact Worlds. They are far from an endangered species - they are so distributed that no single calamity can impact them.

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Ventnor wrote:
There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.

The red-skinned, possibilty egg-laying ones, or just Golarion humans that settled at some point?


Ross Byers wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.
The red-skinned, possibilty egg-laying ones, or just Golarion humans that settled at some point?

They really should be egg layers shouldn't they. I take it that's not canon either way?


thejeff wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.
The red-skinned, possibilty egg-laying ones, or just Golarion humans that settled at some point?
They really should be egg layers shouldn't they. I take it that's not canon either way?

PathfinderWiki says the red-skinned Akitonians can interbreed with Golarian humans.


whew wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
There are also Akitonian humans. Everyone always seems to forget about them.
The red-skinned, possibilty egg-laying ones, or just Golarion humans that settled at some point?
They really should be egg layers shouldn't they. I take it that's not canon either way?
PathfinderWiki says the red-skinned Akitonians can interbreed with Golarian humans.

Doesn't mean they don't lay eggs.

Scarab Sages

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Unless something happened to Earth that I am not aware of, there's humans there too.


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There's mention of offworld populations on Liavra and Bretheda (I seriously doubt the Brethedans are the ones running the gas mines), big chunks of Castrovel, Akiton (not counting the local Barsoomian types, it sounds like plenty of other sorts have gone to Akiton), heck, parts of Verces...

Humans were offworld before the Gap- Absalom Station may be the closest thing to a "cradle of humanity," but I seriously doubt the majority of humans in the Pact worlds actually live there- big as it is....


Set wrote:

Vesk "Stay behind me hyoo-mon. Your people are too rare to be endangering yourselves like this."

Shirren "We really should find two more. I'm not comfortable with only having a single human, given their precarious condition. We should make sure to always have a proper breeding triad, just in case any more of their worlds get blown up, or disappear, or whatever."

Ysoki "I think they just need pairs to breed..."

Shirren "What? Weird. Whatever, the third can be a spare."

Shirren: "No host? Well, the third can keep the egg warm while the other two humans resume breeding."

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whew wrote:
PathfinderWiki says the red-skinned Akitonians can interbreed with Golarian humans.

Egg-laying didn't stop John Carter.


Voss wrote:

The only weird thing about SF humans is they are inexplicably still treated as a 'young' race, presumably because genre tropes and the ease of writing. (It always helps to have someone ignorant but relatable around to explain things to as an audience proxy- see Luke Skywalker). It seems really at odds with the vesk being the new player in the galactic neighborhood, at least to the pact worlds folks, and especially the shirren, who actually are a fairly recent development.

Even weirder is halflings are glossed over for most of the book, but if you read their race entry in the back, they're essentially the second most populous species after humans. Sadly I would trade out all the 'new' races for the old ones. They're just not interesting.

I'm stepping in a bit late, but I don't think that's the weird thing about humanity's position in the setting. No, I think it's the snippets in their Relations paragraph, that talks about humanity's "virus-like spread" and how "even the friendliest races remain aware of just how quickly a few humans in their midst can become a controlling majority." But if we actually look at the core races, humanity matures slower than three other core races - slower than half of them, among those that reproduce biologically.

But humans are mature at 18 here. Vesk beat them at 16, ysoki at 10, and shirren at 5. The ysoki are even specifically noted for having large families. So just how many children are humans having in Starfinder to be able to warrant the phrase "virus-like spread" more than humanoid rats or biologically swarm-based space insects?


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The Shirren and the Vest are relatively new to the Pact Worlds, so their faster maturation has probably not really kicked in there in terms of its effects on population growth.

As for the Ysoki, the open question would be how many Ysoki have families at all. Humans could still outbreed Ysoki despite the faster maturation time and larger families of the latter if humans have an easier time finding mates and suitable places to raise their families. I would imagine that any place where Ysoki live has a lot of them, but there may well be fewer such places than there are human colonies.


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Ysoki have high predation rates from Catfolk.


Omnius wrote:
Set wrote:

Vesk "Stay behind me hyoo-mon. Your people are too rare to be endangering yourselves like this."

Shirren "We really should find two more. I'm not comfortable with only having a single human, given their precarious condition. We should make sure to always have a proper breeding triad, just in case any more of their worlds get blown up, or disappear, or whatever."

Ysoki "I think they just need pairs to breed..."

Shirren "What? Weird. Whatever, the third can be a spare."

Shirren: "No host? Well, the third can keep the egg warm while the other two humans resume breeding."

Now I imagine a Shirren trying to set up a "human breeding program", finding suitable human mates to "propagate the species". Whether or not the humans involved will appreciate the Shirren matchmaker is another question...

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Hithesius wrote:
But if we actually look at the core races, humanity matures slower than three other core races - slower than half of them, among those that reproduce biologically.

Maturity isn't the thing to look for - its the average number of (surviving) children per parent over a lifetime. It doesn't matter if you're mature at birth - that's true of both Androids and Tribbles and only one of those have a population problem.


Ross Byers wrote:
Hithesius wrote:
But if we actually look at the core races, humanity matures slower than three other core races - slower than half of them, among those that reproduce biologically.
Maturity isn't the thing to look for - its the average number of (surviving) children per parent over a lifetime. It doesn't matter if you're mature at birth - that's true of both Androids and Tribbles and only one of those have a population problem.

Not completely true.

Generational length has a huge effect too. If two species both have an average of 4 surviving children per generation, but one has a generation length of 100 years and the other only 20, the second has 5 generations while the first only has one. After 100 years, couple A has 4 children, couple B may be dead, but they've got 64 great great grandchildren.


Humans definitely disseminated all over the Pact Worlds. They just lost their original planet.

The one place you probably won't find humans is the elven forests on Castrovel, because there's no way native elves will let a human within 10 miles of them.


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Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Now I imagine a Shirren trying to set up a "human breeding program", finding suitable human mates to "propagate the species". Whether or not the humans involved will appreciate the Shirren matchmaker is another question...

Given the Shirren love of making decisions, and the wide array of variations upon the human form?

I think it'd be awful and adorable all at once.


Anyone know what the human population is?

If it's less than 10 billion, it might as well be considered endangered (or at least "threatened") for societies that have multiple planets on the 20-50+ billion each. Especially if that 10 billion is spread wide and far throughout the Galaxy.


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bookrat wrote:
Anyone know what the human population is?

Somewhere between "too many" and "just enough for whatever plots you want to run".


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bookrat wrote:

Anyone know what the human population is?

If it's less than 10 billion, it might as well be considered endangered (or at least "threatened") for societies that have multiple planets on the 20-50+ billion each. Especially if that 10 billion is spread wide and far throughout the Galaxy.

Eh, being distributed widely through the galaxy would make humanity *less* endangered, not more. A wide habitat means your less susceptible to any one thing going wrong. Much better to be 5 billion individuals scattered across dozens of worlds and hundreds of space stations and outposts, than 10 billion people all located on a single planet.

( The only way this reverses is if each individual populace is small enough for inbreeding to be an issue, but that only matters if transit ends, and most of the population bases are big enough to stand alone, anyway. )


Metaphysician wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Anyone know what the human population is?

If it's less than 10 billion, it might as well be considered endangered (or at least "threatened") for societies that have multiple planets on the 20-50+ billion each. Especially if that 10 billion is spread wide and far throughout the Galaxy.

Eh, being distributed widely through the galaxy would make humanity *less* endangered, not more. A wide habitat means your less susceptible to any one thing going wrong. Much better to be 5 billion individuals scattered across dozens of worlds and hundreds of space stations and outposts, than 10 billion people all located on a single planet.

( The only way this reverses is if each individual populace is small enough for inbreeding to be an issue, but that only matters if transit ends, and most of the population bases are big enough to stand alone, anyway. )

That's certainly true. Good point.

I was originally thinking that if they're far enough apart and can't have access to each other, then it would be an issue. But population sizes are generally large enough. If I recall correctly from my old evolution classes, you'd need about 5k or more to prevent eventual inbreeding and risk of disease to wipe out an entire population.


And if we're taking that approach, then we may also be talking non-Golarion sourced human populations. We know that both Earth and Androffa had human populations with know known connections to Golarion or each other.


Plus, Earth definitely exists somewhere in the Multiverse (according to at least two Adventure Paths).

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Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Plus, Earth definitely exists somewhere in the Multiverse (according to at least two Adventure Paths).

Rasputin Must Die and what other one?


Ross Byers wrote:
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Plus, Earth definitely exists somewhere in the Multiverse (according to at least two Adventure Paths).
Rasputin Must Die and what other one?

Strange Aeons 6 has a bit of alternate Paris.


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bookrat wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Anyone know what the human population is?

If it's less than 10 billion, it might as well be considered endangered (or at least "threatened") for societies that have multiple planets on the 20-50+ billion each. Especially if that 10 billion is spread wide and far throughout the Galaxy.

Eh, being distributed widely through the galaxy would make humanity *less* endangered, not more. A wide habitat means your less susceptible to any one thing going wrong. Much better to be 5 billion individuals scattered across dozens of worlds and hundreds of space stations and outposts, than 10 billion people all located on a single planet.

( The only way this reverses is if each individual populace is small enough for inbreeding to be an issue, but that only matters if transit ends, and most of the population bases are big enough to stand alone, anyway. )

That's certainly true. Good point.

I was originally thinking that if they're far enough apart and can't have access to each other, then it would be an issue. But population sizes are generally large enough. If I recall correctly from my old evolution classes, you'd need about 5k or more to prevent eventual inbreeding and risk of disease to wipe out an entire population.

There's also that, in order for populations to end up isolated, you'd need an end to cheap and easy transit. There's a couple ways I could see this happening, but aside from 'the Drift vanishes', most of them involve the utter destruction of galactic civilization. In which case, you almost certainly have bigger issues than 'sufficient genetic viability'.


Humanity is just fine, the Great Azlanti Star Empire shall continue to carry the torch of Humanity throughout the stars and bring Order to the Galaxy.

LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!

Seriously though, page 495, there is an entire Empire of Humanity out there, founded by the old Golarion Rune Lord Azlanti Civilization. Humanity is doing just fine and is at about as much risk of going extinct as Vesk.


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*cough* Runelords were the other guys.


Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Plus, Earth definitely exists somewhere in the Multiverse (according to at least two Adventure Paths).

According to the Pathfinder Worldscape comics there are multiple versions of both Earth and Barsoom but only one Golarion which are connected to the Worldscape, a demiplane created by a wizard from Golarion. So humanity is clearly not an endangered species far from it. I would say that it is still the major species in all the worlds connected by the drift.


Then there is the fact that humans will breed with anyone/thing they can. We haven't seen any new half-breeds, but I am sure there will be some at some point. That may contribute to the virus analogy.

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