I recently met a thundercaller bard at the UK games expo whose build was so effective it inspired me to create one as a second character. For those unaware of what it does, the main draw of this bard archetyope is being able to use sound burst (the level 2 bard spell) with a round of bardic performance.
One thing I cannot figure out however, is how he used his sound burst spells to be larger than the spell. I believe he somehow boosted his sound burst to be a 20 foot spread rather than a 10 foot spread. Does anyone have any idea how this would be possible? I do not believe metamagic can somehow be applied to this spell since it is used with a round of bardic performance... right?
No it doesn't, "If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease."
Using the thunder call performance shuts off inspire courage.
Well, you can always (at slightly higher level) use sound burst and then activate inspire courage afterwards (standard followed by move action perform). I'd say dealing a large amount of damage + huge ac debuff + completely stunning potentially multiple enemies is really, really good. At lower levels, when bardic performance is a standard action, I'd still say it's worth it considering inspire courage is then only a +1 bonus to hit and damage.
I wasn't using it as a 20'r burst. I don't know of any way to increase the radius of it beyond 10'.
Ah, hello! Um, are there perhaps any pieces of advice you could share while we're here? Such as which magic items you used, which stat array and which feats?
I'd eventually thought of something like this: 7 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 14 int, 12 wis, 18 cha (human), using feats like improved initiative, cunning, lingering performance and improved fortitude. This was to prioritise having the save DC as high as possible, but maybe 18 cha would be overkilling it and I'd be better of with more dex or con?
On items the ones that I think you used were the dueleists dagger and banner of ancient kings?
Ah, hello! Um, are there perhaps any pieces of advice you could share while we're here? Such as which magic items you used, which stat array and which feats?
I'd eventually thought of something like this: 7 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 14 int, 12 wis, 18 cha (human), using feats like improved initiative, cunning, lingering performance and improved fortitude. This was to prioritise having the save DC as high as possible, but maybe 18 cha would be overkilling it and I'd be better of with more dex or con?
On items the ones that I think you used were the dueleists dagger and banner of ancient kings?
This is Durkha's current stat block. I added a point to str at level 8 because I doubt she will see much seeker level play but her starting array was:
Str 7, Dex 12, Con 14, In 12, Wis 12, Cha 19 (after racials).
The oracle level is largely a downgrade in terms of combat effectiveness but adds significantly to defence and utility giving charisma to AC, reflex saves and all knowledge skills as well as a few extra low level spells and the misfortune revelation. Over time I would probably retrain out of the extra revelation feats and pick up the ring of revelation.
She has daylight as a spell known just because I hate deeper darkness but it will go in due course as well probably when I have enough level 3 spell slots to make use of haste and good hope on a regular basis.
Her key magic item is the Three Reasons to Live from Plunder and Peril although the Banner is also a way to go. The Banner wont affect Thundercall though. I also just bought a capet of flying as I hate not having a way to fly long term. She would have probably been better off increasing her charisma headband but again I value versatility over straight power.
Stat block:
Durkha, daughter of Karsa
Female half-orc bard (thundercaller) 8/oracle (dual-cursed oracle) 1 N Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +11; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 16, flat-footed 18 (+5 armor, +6 Dex, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 75 (9d8+27)
Fort +9, Ref +19, Will +13; +4 vs. bardic performance, language-dependent, and sonic
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo[APG], shadow blending
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Offense
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Speed 25 ft., swim 25 ft.
SQ behind the veil, lore master 1/day, masterpieces (symphony of the elysian heart), oracle's curses (deep one, haunted), orc blood, revelations (lore keeper, misfortune[UM], sidestep secret), versatile performances (keyboard, sing)
Equipment:
Combat Gear oil of daylight, potion of fly, potion of gaseous form, potion of touch of the sea, scroll of aram zey’s focus (x2), scroll of comprehend languages, scroll of expeditious retreat, scroll of lesser (x2) restoration, scroll of remove fear (x2), scroll of see invisibility (x3), wand of cure light wounds (31 charges), wand of heightened awareness (10 charges), wand of lesser restoration (12 charges), wand of mage armor (28 charges), wand of monkey fish (50 charges), wand of resist energy (CL 7th, 6 charges), wand of shield (16 charges), air crystal (2), alchemical grease[APG], antiplague[APG], antitoxin, blood-boiling pill, gravelly tonic[ACG], soothe syrup[APG], soul stimulant[UE], stillgut[ARG] (2), tunnel creeper
Other Gear +1 mithral chain shirt, +1 buckler, spiked gauntlet, belt of mighty constitution +2, carpet of flying i, circlet of persuasion, cloak of resistance +2, cracked magenta prism ioun stone, handy haversack, headband of alluring charisma +2, lesser talisman of freedom[OA], page of spell knowledge (feather fall)[UE], page of spell knowledge (unseen servant)[UE], three reasons to live, vest of escape, wayfinder[ISWG], masterwork thieves' tools, masterwork tools, pathfinder chronicle (all)[ISWG] potion sponge[ARG] (5), smoked goggles[APG], wrist sheath, spring loaded (x2)
How do you get around not having inspire courage up? Like, is it really worth not boosting the entire party?
It very much depends on the situation. Not all parties will benefit hugely from inspire, some will benefit massively from it. Which you use depends on the situation and the sort of enemies you are facing.
Is the opponent a flying spell caster raining death on the group? Probably better off stunning him and forcing him to crash to the ground so the melee can get him. Lots of enemies using physical weapons, stunning them disarms them as well. Fighting undead, oozes or constructs, probably better off with inspire unless they are nearly down and need finishing off.
It also gives you a very effective way of dealing with swarms which bards usually lack.
Well, you can always (at slightly higher level) use sound burst and then activate inspire courage afterwards (standard followed by move action perform). I'd say dealing a large amount of damage + huge ac debuff + completely stunning potentially multiple enemies is really, really good. At lower levels, when bardic performance is a standard action, I'd still say it's worth it considering inspire courage is then only a +1 bonus to hit and damage.
Thundercall is a form of bardic performance and therefore benefits from the activation speed reduction at level 7 and 13. Arguably this lets you activate it multiple times in a round from level 7 onwards but this is something I avoid as it seems like both a grey area and fairly table dominating. I have seen it used that way by others and it wasn't terribly interesting for everyone else.
"Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level."
Doesn't this stop you from activating a performance more than once per round? Each round you can only do 1 performance. So at lv7 aren't you still capped by this and thus can't standard call lighting and move inspire?
"Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level."
Doesn't this stop you from activating a performance more than once per round? Each round you can only do 1 performance. So at lv7 aren't you still capped by this and thus can't standard call lighting and move inspire?
Many electrons have been spilled trying to answer this question. Last time I checked there was no consensus and no official ruling on whether one could rain down multiple thunders a round.
But, especially with Three Reasons to Live a bard who could bring down multiple Thunders a round (or Thunder and Inspire Courage in the same round) would be massively overpowered for PFS play.
Its a grey area, choice 1 (one performance a round) yields a quite powerful and versatile character and choice 2 (multiple performances a round) yields a character significantly more powerful than "quite powerful". I know which way I think is correct (and, like Andrew, I say that as somebody with a Thundercaller bard with Three Reasons To Live)
I have mine built with the arcane healer archetype (variant channelling music) this allows me to apply the channel penalty to dcs for "illusions, sonic effects, and language-dependent effects for 1 minute."
At level 7 two rounds should look like this channel (trait and feat to boost the dcs by 3) + thundercall. Second round thunder call + haste.
Haste + inspire is better but this seems viable and fun.
And I can still haste and inspire if I think the fight will be hard.
"Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level."
Doesn't this stop you from activating a performance more than once per round? Each round you can only do 1 performance. So at lv7 aren't you still capped by this and thus can't standard call lighting and move inspire?
That depends on whether you think it means only one single performance or only one type of performance. Really bardic music generally is a badly written set of abilities that could do with a blog update, see for example, how on earth masterpieces actually work.
