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I have liked arcane blast since the moment I read it. Back then I didn't even back then I was new and didn't even consider things like bypassing SR or energy resistance. I still already knew I was never going to take this feat.
It's three years short of a decade and my mind is brought back to the feat. So I wonder; What would you charge your players for a rod that grants this feat?
The rod need not do anything else. Simply "when you are wielding this rod you gain the arcane blast feat"
And to answere the question already forming in some of your minds, yes I did just start reading Harry Dresden novels.
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A +1 Training Weapon that grants a combat feat costs 8000 gold plus the price of the weapon. Training can only grant combat feats, but this is a pretty good point of comparison for a custom item like that. Probably would bump the price up a bit because training requires you to meet other prerequisites, and Arcane Blast normally requires level 10.
Wow that weapon feature is rediculous. No one needs to take the last feat in their chain anymore.
We're probably going to see some +1 crossbow mastery crossbows and +1 dervish dance scimitars
Personally I can't wait for my +1 dueling improved initiative, barroom brawler spiked gauntlet and my +1 cornugeon smash, hurtful flachion.
Who needs to be a brawler any more. For 8000 gold a pop you can get spiked gauntlet of improved trip, armor spikes or improved grapple, blade boot of improved bullrush, blade boot of improved disarm, barbazu beard of improved dirty trick, thorn bracer of improved feint. One thrones bracer left to wield, take your pick.
Hitting level 11? Don't pick between two weapon rend and greater two weapon fighting. Just slap one on your weapon.
Forever more are optimizers going to be stuck weighing the value of every weapon enhancement to every single combat feat.
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Wow that weapon feature is rediculous. No one needs to take the last feat in their chain anymore.
We're probably going to see some +1 crossbow mastery crossbows and +1 dervish dance scimitarsPersonally I can't wait for my +1 dueling improved initiative, barroom brawler spiked gauntlet and my +1 cornugeon smash, hurtful flachion.
Who needs to be a brawler any more. For 8000 gold a pop you can get spiked gauntlet of improved trip, armor spikes or improved grapple, blade boot of improved bullrush, blade boot of improved disarm, barbazu beard of improved dirty trick, thorn bracer of improved feint. One thrones bracer left to wield, take your pick.Hitting level 11? Don't pick between two weapon rend and greater two weapon fighting. Just slap one on your weapon.
Forever more are optimizers going to be stuck weighing the value of every weapon enhancement to every single combat feat.
I'm fairly sure that you cannot take multiple Training Enchantments on a single weapon, just like you cannot have a +1 Flaming Flaming weapon for 2d6 of fire instead of 1d6 of fire. So its limited to one feat, still is very potent for captstone feats, one off feats, and the like but not super OP.
If you were going to grant a subpar feat I'd honestly cut the cost in half. Especially since the feat cannot be changed. Spells are worth much more than tiny damage rays, for instance Scorching Ray has up to 3 rays that deal 4d6 compared to Arcane blast that only fires 1 ray at 4d6. So if it costs 8000 for a PC to choose a feat then the GM should be able to hand them a terrible feat for less.
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I'm fairly sure that you cannot take multiple Training Enchantments on a single weapon,
That's why he specified you would have a spiked gauntlet, armor spikes, bladed boots, a barbazu beard, and a thorn bracer. Those are all different weapons you could have equipped at the same time - even if you only have one attack and can only 'wield' one at a time you'd have all those feats as options on every attack.
Training requires the item to be "drawn and in hand". You don't hold a boot blade or a babazu beard in your hand and you don't draw a gauntlet or armor spikes.
Fully expect GMs to be sticklers about this if you're trying to get bonus feats from your boots and gauntlets.
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Training requires the item to be "drawn and in hand". You don't hold a boot blade or a babazu beard in your hand and you don't draw a gauntlet or armor spikes.
Fully expect GMs to be sticklers about this if you're trying to get bonus feats from your boots and gauntlets.
Actually, the unwritten rules on Armor spikes says they are drawn and in hand. This is why you can't 2 handed weapon then twfing with armor spikes because they count as in hand.
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As for the "drawn and in hand" language. Debatable, since we could draw from Defending as an example of an enhancement that only works for weapons you actually attack with during your attack routine. That said, they don't share language, as Defending specifically says you need to use the weapon, while Training says it just needs to be in-hand. So by the rules, you could have a caestus and armour spike weapons of training (possibly of multiple training feats if you have the dosh) and they would simply grant you their feats. Powerful, certainly, but more powerful in the hands of a fighter than a wizard.
I think something as simple as an attack effect with energy/force effect with no scaling whatsoever is probably about as cheap as any magical item that would allow continuous usage of magic missile, a comparable but definitely stronger magic item. Arcane Blast requires the sacrifice of spell slots, but obviously sacrificing anything higher than a 1st level spell slot is a waste, and definitely a waste at CL10, when magic missile from your slots alone would do more reliable and comparable damage, if not more damage.
If it's simply a 'You fire a bolt as a standard action, it does 2d6 damage', then I'd probably price it as much as a EMP Pistol/3 (about 4000gp), since it is obviously inferior due to not utilizing iterative attacks or interacting with any feats/class features to increase it's damage, but is still magical damage and therefore not subject to DR and is a touch attack.
If it is actually granting the feat, then yes, Training is a good starting point.
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8000 doesn't seem that bad, especially if it can also be used as a +1 mace.
how much does pricing magic weapon qualities work on maces? is it still half again for being the same item or are they considered "different items" like when you're putting weapon enhancement on a shield.
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Additional magical properties like that would be the full price of the magical effect and then half again, since you're not enchanting the weapon as a weapon, but the weapon as a wondrous item.
Training requires the item to be "drawn and in hand". You don't hold a boot blade or a babazu beard in your hand and you don't draw a gauntlet or armor spikes.
Fully expect GMs to be sticklers about this if you're trying to get bonus feats from your boots and gauntlets.
Frankly I'd be surprised if this weapon quality survived a FAQ. Every ruling so far over what 'in hand' and 'wielding' means has bent over backwards to ensure that anytime you attack with something it means you used a 'hand' for it. I understand why (no Greatsword/armor spikes/dwarven helmet headbutt/kick attack combos).
YMMV of course - 99% of the stuff I see on the boards would never fly at a table, and thus people flee to pathfinder society where the GM can't change rules if they are broken until it gets so bad they make a 'ruling' on it :) If this isn't society legal (not interested so not checking) it is most likely fine as written. Someone tried to use that equipment layout at my table and I'd ... politely tell them no.
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Additional magical properties like that would be the full price of the magical effect and then half again, since you're not enchanting the weapon as a weapon, but the weapon as a wondrous item.
I think rods are rods first and maces second, so if anything the magic weapon properties I assume would be the price and a half.
Although I think somewhere I read it's the most expensive piece that gets exempt.Tons of rods course as a +1 mace. Would turning a metamagic rod into a +1 mace cost 3000 go?
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Holding a rod is thematic but also a bit painful.
Dark Blue Rhomboid (Ioun Stone) is 10k and grants alertness, not the best feat but a feat and it is slotless.
Shields of arrow deflection, a better feat, is +2 so 9000 for a +1 arrow deflection shield or 6000gp for the feat. It require holding a shield.
6000 is also the difference between a +1 weapon and a +1 keen weapon, improved critical being one of the best feats in the game.
I'd price it similar, 6000 for a rod, 10k slotless item, or even 4k and 8k if you think the feat is under powered.
Additional magical properties like that would be the full price of the magical effect and then half again, since you're not enchanting the weapon as a weapon, but the weapon as a wondrous item.I think rods are rods first and maces second, so if anything the magic weapon properties I assume would be the price and a half.
Although I think somewhere I read it's the most expensive piece that gets exempt.Tons of rods course as a +1 mace. Would turning a metamagic rod into a +1 mace cost 3000 go?
Yeah that's a fair assessment. If it's a rod first, definitely 1.5 the weapon enhancement cost.
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...back then I was new and didn't even consider things like bypassing SR or energy resistance.
It's an untyped supernatural ability, so I don't think either of those things would apply.
...back then I was new and didn't even consider things like bypassing SR or energy resistance.It's an untyped supernatural ability, so I don't think either of those things would apply.
Yeah that's what I mean. It's something to think about picking for that reason. I saw it as something to pick just because "yay blast" and didn't care beyond that. Then I saw scorching ray and thought nah.
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Extrapolating from the feat granting ioun stones, the cost to enchant an item with a feat is 2,500gp for a price of 5,000gp. See nacreous gray sphere and scarlet and green cabochon.
I feel extrapolating from the ioun stones isn't a great idea.
The for instance, one is endurance. It's an okay feat to have, but no one bothers to pick it up if they actually have to spend a feat slot on it. Rangers have it, only because its free.
So, maybe if your point was that for a crappy feat (like endurance) you could price an equally crappy feat (I guess I'll agree arcane blast qualifies) about the same.
I just don't think we should set a precedent that all feats could be had for prices like that, because some feats are a lot more valuable than others.
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"Pay money get feats" is a can of worms, but we've already opened that can with the "training" weapon enhancement for better or worse.
I wonder if you could extrapolate from ioun stones if you adjust for "how hard it is to get this feat through normal means". If you just charged 10k for "a feat that can be taken at level 1 by any character" (like alertness or endurance) that's probably reasonable. Certainly there are better choices than alertness of endurance, but by the time you can afford 10k to spend on a non-big-six item that won't be too much of a problem.
I truly wish the training weapon enhancement never existed.
Still, it is limited to combat feats and must be wielded to be effective. Of course how that interacts with things like armor spikes and so forth needs to be FAQ'd.
To go a different direction, can anyone think of any way to get a "blasting rod" other than the arcane blast feat?
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Feats can't be generalized with a price like 8,000 gp for any combat feat that isn't a prerequisite.
Pricing a feat by the rules/guide would have you examine the power of the feat and compare it to other similar items/powers/spells.
Any bringing up of the training weapon enhancement will derail this thread with hundreds of posts about how broken, useless, weak, wrong, botched, and conflicted it is.
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To go a different direction, can anyone think of any way to get a "blasting rod" other than the arcane blast feat?
Well, you could try getting a smaller Staff of Evocation for a good number of blasts and a couple of terrain effects. For a rod of Arcane Blast I would start by considering this a spell effect from a 5th level spell at Cl10 (as arcane casters at 10th level have a maximum spell level of 5) and consider it spell completion, which would normally be priced at (25*5*10)=1250. Then add in that it has charges per day and let's assume 26 charges (number of spells per day a sorcerer or specialised wizard has at level 10, before ability scores) bringing the price to (1250*(5/26))=6500. I'd then double the price to reflect the combination of no SR, No Energy Resistance, and the fact that it shouldn't be available before level 10, and give it a 2000 gp discount because spell completion items are supposed to increase your resources/day and this one almost decreases it, and you arrive at 11000gp. Of course, all of this is in the realm of houserules so YMMV.
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To go a different direction, can anyone think of any way to get a "blasting rod" other than the arcane blast feat?Well, you could try getting a smaller Staff of Evocation for a good number of blasts and a couple of terrain effects. For a rod of Arcane Blast I would start by considering this a spell effect from a 5th level spell at Cl10 (as arcane casters at 10th level have a maximum spell level of 5) and consider it spell completion, which would normally be priced at (25*5*10)=1250. Then add in that it has charges per day and let's assume 26 charges (number of spells per day a sorcerer or specialised wizard has at level 10, before ability scores) bringing the price to (1250*(5/26))=6500. I'd then double the price to reflect the combination of no SR, No Energy Resistance, and the fact that it shouldn't be available before level 10, and give it a 2000 gp discount because spell completion items are supposed to increase your resources/day and this one almost decreases it, and you arrive at 11000gp. Of course, all of this is in the realm of houserules so YMMV.
I guess, 11K isn't bad. But really weak for its cost.