Carrying capacity for party of wimps


Advice


Anyone know good ways to be able to carry more stuff besides Muleback Cords or regular castings of Ant Haul? Our Wrath of the Righteous party has nobody with more than 10 strength, and my paladin is ending up choosing armor based on minor differences in weight. Our GM already houseruled currency to not count, as well as mundane clothes once the follower of Arshea started considering fighting in her undies. Bag of holding, hirelings, and so on not a solution, this is just in terms of weapons, armor, basic magic items, etc. What's a 10 Str frontliner to do here, guys?


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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'd be a lot stricter ("meaner") if I were your DM ;) Carrying capacity and encumbrance penalties are one of the often over-looked factors that require careful thought for character creation.

The most common (though risky) way to deal with encumbrance penalties is to have a backpack full of gear that is dropped on the ground at the very beginning of every encounter. (the risk is that if you have to run away, you might not be able to pick up the backpack)

A problem like you're describing, where just items worn and held (armor and weapons) are giving encumbrance penalties, is harder to deal with. One thing to keep in mind is that being medium or heavy load decreases your speed and gives you some skill check penalties, but won't affect your actual combat aptitude in terms of attack rolls, AC, etc. So you might just have to bear with it until you can afford other (perhaps magical) options.

Grand Lodge

I like applying encumbrance penalties, it's good at weeding out these dex build sycophants who want dex to damage 6 ways to Sunday.

That, or give str to AC. Balance out the table a bit. :)

Oh but aside from my sadexitc tendencies, to answer your question OP, get some hirelings to follow you around. Or a horse. The horse will have the highest strength score in the party.


You could have a look if there is special material that reduces the weight of your stuff. A masterwork backback also increases your STR value by 1 in regard of the amount you can carry, but as it has a weight of its own it won't really help at STR scores of 10 and below.

The most most cost efficient way that doesn't block any bodyslot would probably be a muleback chords magical tatoo (double base price).
This also allows you to carry a decent sized bag of holding later (so you don't have to leave behind all that loot).


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A mule is cheap: 8gp. Plus, it hearkens back to the dawn of RPGing, before there were magical solutions for everything, so there's that.


The arcane trickster in a game I'm running has been known to get bitingly sarcastic when asked to perform feats of strength - her 13 str is the highest in the party, the others being 5, 7 and 12.

Your main options are to go with the ant haul you mentioned, to buy mithral/darkwood weapons & armor, or to ride something.

Silver Crusade

Ant Haul really is the best answer, IMHO. You could even have everyone chip in and buy a wand of Ant Haul.

Dark Archive

I mean, a Masterwork Backpack will improve it slightly depending on just how low their STR scores are. Wand of Ant Haul is probably the best short-term answer.


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Get a Stretcher. You can secure your less-essential gear to it and drag it behind you like a travois. You can usually drag 5 times more weight than you can carry.

When combat begins, just drop your stretcher, draw your Kukris, and wade into combat, and pray your stretcher is still there when you return.


Kaladin_Stormblessed wrote:
Anyone know good ways to be able to carry more stuff besides Muleback Cords or regular castings of Ant Haul? Our Wrath of the Righteous party has nobody with more than 10 strength, and my paladin is ending up choosing armor based on minor differences in weight. Our GM already houseruled currency to not count, as well as mundane clothes once the follower of Arshea started considering fighting in her undies. Bag of holding, hirelings, and so on not a solution, this is just in terms of weapons, armor, basic magic items, etc. What's a 10 Str frontliner to do here, guys?

That's the implicit consequence of nuking your Strength. at low levels muleback cords and anthaul are your only choices. Why does your Paladin only have 10 strength?


Mule, masterwork backpack, a tame dire rat trained for carrying smaller things (it has a climb speed and so can get around easily)... But you're looking at boosting YOUR OWN carrying capacity.

I have a similar problem in my current Emerald Spire game as a 6 STR gnome bard. I will teach you the ways, young padawan.

Okay:

First off, what are your traits? Ask your GM if you can take the trait Muscle of the Society. That gives you +2 effective STR for carrying capacity.

Secondly, a Masterwork Backpack makes your STR score count as +1 carrying capacity. If there's stuff you MUST carry on your person that isn't used every fight but you don't trust companions with, you can put it in there. Also realize that you can drop the backpack whenever you're about to throwdown.

Thirdly, let's talk materials. You'll eventually be able to afford Mithril Armor and THAT IS A PRIORITY. Oh man, is that a priority. That reduces the weight of your armor a LOT.

A temporary solution for weaponry is weapons made out of Stone. They'll be susceptible to sundering, but if your GM doesn't catch on to that you'll be fine. (He might realize they're weak and decide to break them though.) Their base cost is 1/4 the normal price and they'll weigh 3/4 what normal weapons do.

Quote:
Light and one-handed bludgeoning weapons, spears, axes, daggers and arrowheads can all be made of stone. Weapons made of stone have half the hardness of their base weapons, and have the fragile quality.

Speaking of weapons, eyeball the weight of available weaponry. If you like wielding two-handed weapons, for instance, take a Greatsword over a Greataxe (8 lbs vs. 12 lbs). One-handed more your style? Longswords are 4 lbs. A rapier is 2 lbs. A Terbutje is an Aztec weapon that's also 2 pounds but it has the fragile quality so you better make sure it's masterwork so it won't break.

Need a backup melee weapon that's usable in grapples? The Cestus, Dagger, and Spiked Gauntlet are all 1 lb.

Ranged weapon? That longbow is nice, but is 1d6 that much worse than 1d8? Get a shortbow.

Do you like Medium armor? Maybe check out the Eastern armors table and look at Kikko Armor. It's more Expensive than a Breastplate, less expensive than an Agile Breastplate, weighs 25 lbs and has stats of +5/+4. It'll do you good if you can take advantage of that DEX modifier.

Maybe you have a party member that's using Light armor but doesn't have great DEX? Well, look at the Lamellar Cuirass from the Eastern Armor page as well. It weighs 8 pounds and has the same AC as Leather Armor (which weighs 15); and like Leather Armor it has no Armor Check Penalty and so there's no non-proficiency penalty. The downside is it only has a max DEX of 4 vs. Leather Armor's max DEX of 6. But if you REALLY need to reduce weight, it can be a good option.

And if for some reason you're a 10 STR frontliner wearing Heavy Armor, the O-Yoroi is +8/+2 armor that weighs 5 lbs less than Full Plate.

Hopefully some of this helps.

PS: The best part about playing a gnome bard with 6 STR is that the damage you deal from falling on top of things is greater than the damage you deal with your weapons, so finding tall things to jump off of has become part of my strategy.


You could ask your GM if you can use more realistic weights for items.

D&D and PF weights are insane and arbitrary, and frequently at least twice what anything real weighs. For instance in real life "longswords" weigh 1 or 2 pounds, and a six foot long greatsword is maybe 4 pounds. It should be pretty obvious that a coffee pot does not weigh the 4 pounds randomly assigned to it. A watch is not a full pound. Your everyday clothes do not weigh the 5-10 pounds that whoever wrote the sections is thinking they do.

This is part of why so many people ignore encumbrance.


Clothes actually were considered weightless in 3.5 when you were wearing them.

In Pathfinder they left that rule out of the core rulebook, but it's probably safe to handwave that little fact and say "It's fine, everything's fine" and speak in soothing tones to your players.

Sovereign Court

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Inlaa wrote:

Clothes actually were considered weightless in 3.5 when you were wearing them.

In Pathfinder they left that rule out of the core rulebook, but it's probably safe to handwave that little fact and say "It's fine, everything's fine" and speak in soothing tones to your players.

Just use endure elements and sleeves of many garments and proclaim yourself emperor :P


You'll have a new groove every day.


Muleback chords.


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Inlaa wrote:
PS: The best part about playing a gnome bard with 6 STR is that the damage you deal from falling on top of things is greater than the damage you deal with your weapons, so finding tall things to jump off of has become part of my strategy.

Now this is...

I'm not sure what to call it, but it definitely is.


VRMH wrote:
Inlaa wrote:
PS: The best part about playing a gnome bard with 6 STR is that the damage you deal from falling on top of things is greater than the damage you deal with your weapons, so finding tall things to jump off of has become part of my strategy.

Now this is...

I'm not sure what to call it, but it definitely is.

It's great.

One time we were fighting giant spiders that had some buddies of ours trapped in a spiked pit. So my gnome, Raphaele Fiddlesticks, simply groaned, "Oh, Fiddlesticks!" and jumped on top of a spider.

He squished the spider dead. He took a little damage from the spikes, but that spider done got DEAD.


Heavyload belt?


Decimus Drake wrote:
Heavyload belt?

+1


I DM in a self-made scenario where there is slavery and very low magic itens, my players have 1 carrying slave each just because of encumbrance hahaha

But I agree, get the money from the group, buy a mule, buy a light armor for her (maybe even a medium armor), and let her carry your shananingans


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've always found 10 strength a little low for carrying capacity. It can be dealt with, but I've found it to be more hassle than it is worth.

1st level you get yourself a mule and a masterwork backpack.

A backpack is 2 lbs, masterwork is 4 lbs. Even with a strength of 7 you have a net gain of one pound carrying capacity.

A mule can carry a lot of equipment. You should consider but don't require Handle Animal to use a trained mule.

CRB, pg. 98 wrote:
Untrained: If you have no ranks in Handle Animal, you can use a Charisma check to handle and push domestic animals, but you can’t teach, rear, or train animals.

As a paladin, hopefully you have a good charisma.

Mithral armor is half weight and cheap enough for light armor that you can afford it in the early levels.

At the later levels you can look at the magical items. If there is a wizard or sorcerer in the party, they could look at the Floating Disk spell for short trips.

Expect to spend 2K on a handy haversack early in your career. You might end up doing it before you get magical weapons.

Liberty's Edge

Hiya, party wizard here.

I'm generally on board with Ant Haul myself - given I went with the spell sage and have less slots it may cost a pearl of power or wand to rely on, but it seems worthwhile. Some of the group do wish for a solution that doesn't involve waiting for the wizard to cast the spell to let them walk comfortably.

Additionally, given my whopping AC of 10/11 I've been accepting encumbrance pretty casually (we do actually have a bag of holding now), but it doesn't solve the problem of other PCs.

The mule plan is a fun one, and one that a party member did go for at level 1. Those who are familiar with the opening might understand why this didn't go so well for them. We might have a chance of getting the mule back soon, though.

The spell tattoo is a cool idea and one I should consider in future campaigns.


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Jhaeman wrote:

I'd be a lot stricter ("meaner") if I were your DM ;) Carrying capacity and encumbrance penalties are one of the often over-looked factors that require careful thought for character creation.

The most common (though risky) way to deal with encumbrance penalties is to have a backpack full of gear that is dropped on the ground at the very beginning of every encounter. (the risk is that if you have to run away, you might not be able to pick up the backpack)

A problem like you're describing, where just items worn and held (armor and weapons) are giving encumbrance penalties, is harder to deal with. One thing to keep in mind is that being medium or heavy load decreases your speed and gives you some skill check penalties, but won't affect your actual combat aptitude in terms of attack rolls, AC, etc. So you might just have to bear with it until you can afford other (perhaps magical) options.

I created a magic item that would gently lowered your backpack to the ground, when you shucked it to fight.

In the way past we also created bigger Handy Haversacks and backpacks of holding before there were Handy Haversacks.

In general the one issue on weight we really enforced and did not change was the weight restrictions on small races but we let larger races get a way with a bit more.

MDC


Max 10 strength is painful. I mean paladin should at least be rocking more than that.

I'd see if you can get special material items. Mithral armor, darkwood bows, silkweave backpacks, bed rolls, etc. I've done some 7-10 strength characters before. Can be managed with light/no armor and few if any backup weapons.

Paladin probably is just going to have to deal with encumbrance unless they plan on not wearing full plate type armor.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

besides Ant Haul - consider the lowly Mount spell (or just buy a mundane mule or two and cast ant haul on the animals...

eventually handy haversacks are your friend (as are as you noted special materials)

look at the paizo book Black Markets - there is a spell in there Arcane Pocket which might be useful (you can only create one at a time but it creates a 1/hr per level pocket that functions as a bag of holding that can carry 10lbs/level. (up to 1 cubic feet per level as well if you have big items to store)

there is also the old standby of floating disk - 100lbs per level, 1hr/level , 1st level spell

(get an extend rod or get a cleric or other divine caster who can cast Blessing of Fervor which among other effects allows for a free extend for castings of spells 2nd level or below as one of it's per round options - so besides being an amazing spell it is great to cast early in the adventuring day and then after that initial combat cast long duration buffs like Ant Haul or Floating Disk etc. )

Shrink Item (level 3 spell) is another one - limited to non-magical items but as a GM I would probably say allow you to construct a chest, fill it with the party's money (and perhaps other non-magical items) and let you shrink it down to a piece of cloth. Duration is 1 day a level and size limit is 2 cubic feet per level - as a GM I'd probably be fairly flexible with the party about this spell (at higher levels you can cast permanency to make one item that will shrink and resize unlimited times for the original caster - I'd probably allow that "item" to be a chest and let the party use it - with the caveat that it can't store magical items... especially since by that level a party would also have access to spells like secret chest or possibly even create demiplane...

a cheap magical item that can be helpful is a traveler's any tool - 250GP an can be used to make any mundane tool (and count as a masterwork tool for Craft or Profession checks) - this can be used creatively to minimize the otherwise bulky mundane items adventurers might want to carry around (poles, shovels, crowbars - you can get really creative)

masterwork backpacks are another simple thing to do

also don't forget that if any party members are small sized their equipment is also lighter weight

Liberty's Edge

These are some great ideas Rycaut. I'd never considered using Mount just for carrying things. This might be a better plan than bringing a donkey with us as we assault demonic cults.

Traveller's any-tool is a great plan for getting round the 'not enough capacity for necessities' issues, so I'll look into that one. I already plan on picking up extend spell through feat or rod, but synergy with things like floating disk is a good tip.

@MDC: That is a really cool item idea, and generally fits my mental image of battles as I regularly play the guy that carries all the crap.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

if you have multiple casters in the party (or just a cleric and a wizard) when the cleric gets blessing of fervor that can be better than extend through a feat or a rod (better than the feat as it doesn't raise the spell level and better than the rod if you want to extend more than 3 spells a day - though it only works on level 2 and below - but 1st and 2nd level for wizards (and to a lesser degree clerics) has a bunch of great spells for extend - at higher levels this can even result in spells that last more than one day which allows for some further flexibility. Of course eventually having the feat allows for extend on higher level spells which can indeed be excellent.

Can also be useful to have an Unseen servant around - not super strong - but could be ordered to say drag backpacks out of combat

(and as I noted ant haul can be excellent cast on non-humans - mounts or animal companions if you have them)

(I have a PFS character who is a Barbarian with a STR of 8 - Urban Barbarian / Inspired Blade Swashbuckler so a DEX fighter - but he has to be really careful about the weight of every item he owns has going over light encumbrance has really severe effects for him)


The Dandy Lion wrote:

These are some great ideas Rycaut. I'd never considered using Mount just for carrying things. This might be a better plan than bringing a donkey with us as we assault demonic cults.

Traveller's any-tool is a great plan for getting round the 'not enough capacity for necessities' issues, so I'll look into that one. I already plan on picking up extend spell through feat or rod, but synergy with things like floating disk is a good tip.

@MDC: That is a really cool item idea, and generally fits my mental image of battles as I regularly play the guy that carries all the crap.

Dude,

Get... a... STRETCHER!

10GP, and it makes your maximum load 300 pounds!


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Why does your Paladin only have 10 strength?

- Using arrays, needing to be able to get TWF, and not choosing a race for the stat mods didn't give me thaaat much to work with.

- It's what fits her as a character. She's a teenage girl who ran away from home with her pet, not a veteran fighter. 12 Int made more sense for her than 12 Str, concept-wise.

Inlaa wrote:

First off, what are your traits? Ask your GM if you can take the trait Muscle of the Society. That gives you +2 effective STR for carrying capacity.

Secondly, a Masterwork Backpack makes your STR score count as +1 carrying capacity. If there's stuff you MUST carry on your person that isn't used every fight but you don't trust companions with, you can put it in there. Also realize that you can drop the backpack whenever you're about to throwdown.

Speaking of weapons, eyeball the weight of available weaponry. If you like wielding two-handed weapons, for instance, take a Greatsword over a Greataxe (8 lbs vs. 12 lbs). One-handed more your style? Longswords are 4 lbs. A rapier is 2 lbs. A Terbutje is an Aztec weapon that's also 2 pounds but it has the fragile quality so you better make sure it's masterwork so it won't break.

Campaign trait because required, and Seeker. Perception best skill and all that. Nothing I want to give up there since nobody else besides my paladin and her familiar has good Perception.

Literally everything with a weight that my PC is carrying on her person while adventuring: longsword, dagger, spring-loaded wrist sheath, cloak of resistance, holy symbol, armored coat, belt pouch, falconry gauntlet. Everything else is already in the bag of holding or left at the inn. I had to swap out the chain shirt for an armored coat because, ironically, light armor was less light. So, yeah. This isn't a "how do we haul all our loot" kind of problem. I'm sure that will be relevant at times, so the suggestions about it very likely will come in handy, but my immediate concern is being able to carry my own combat gear.

(And yeah, I already have the lightest weapon choices possible without losing out on stuff.)

Mithril as a priority, definitely. I'm just planning to get by until it's my turn in the line to spend gold on a +1. (At least one other PC needs good armor more urgently than I do.) Still, that's probably only going to last so long before I get other things I'd like to carry.

So, yeah, Ant Haul is looking like probably the best serious solution, I just figured it was worth asking about.

Grand Lodge

Ruin your PCs by making all the treasure golden anvils.

"Man, this is so much loot- too bad you can't carry it."

And if they do try to carry it, throw some low level mooks at them politely reminding them about the mechanical penalties of heavy encumbrance.


In PFS CORE I have a character (Vek Orcbreaker) with an ass (Farquad) that carries half his stuff. If the adventure enters somewhere the ass can't go, Vek checks if he might need anything and takes it from his ass.

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