Elemental Proofing Paste

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Grand Lodge

It's a real pity everything isn't together in one place. I assume there is some licencing issues with some art works. If something does appear in the future I would happily jump on it; I am already smitten with PF2's art so maybe we'll have more luck there?

Grand Lodge

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Just enjoying reading the Bestiary 6 and I am gobsmacked with the excellent art and design that went into these creatures and I was wondering, has Paizo released all it's art in a book that I can put on the coffee table for guests to enjoy?

Grand Lodge

The Shackles has a lot of sunken lost societies and a cultural melting pot due to its high traffic and a lack of established city states.

I imagine the Eye is somewhere between Arodens death and the death of the previous civilization along with something falling from orbit that caused the storm.

You could also implicate the storm as part of the plans of the Aboleth to release a natural disaster on the 'land folk' to wash them into the sea for new slaves.

But a really simply hand wavy idea is that it's just an oversized portal to the Plane Of Air.

Unless your players are going to get to mythic levels of play beyond level 20 I wouldn't worry about it because it's basically a big o' death vortex of DO NOT TOUCH.

Grand Lodge

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Vic Ferrari wrote:


Yeah, using "Half-Stone" instead of "Bulk" is much more aesthetically pleasing for a fantasy world.

I never buy that smelly argument. If they wanted it to be a exercise in a e s t h e t i c s then they would of created entire different measurement systems along with days and seasons and volumes and portions.

"I hope you have your Ponfanks of water ready for the Zoot-tow Blam we'll be travelling, it should take several Aleyoopahs but we're hoping to cut a few Mergurgles with secret a route. Remember that the cart can only carry Yubyubs of Goinkeets excluding your Bag Of Prangangaranga (Translator note: Prangangaranga means Holding)"

No one ever said "10 kilometers to the Lake of a million liters" and flipped the table because of their 'immersions' breaking.

I still use the correct measurements at the table because players already hate remembering arbitrary values to swords and hats, let alone trying to use a inferior <10% of the population measurement standard.

Grand Lodge

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So, I was running a game this one time, in which I had a succubus to mess around with, and one of the PCs ran up and grappled her.
On her turn I said: "Alright, we are grappled. We both have the grappled condition, with you being the grappler, so I-"

"No actually, there's only one character with the grappled condition in this edition"

"Hmm... lets go back to Pathfinder one for this okay?"

Grand Lodge

Feats were explained to me as 'talents'. But there's a lot of word salad thrown around in TTRPGs.

I also had a real struggle with 'attack roll' being more like an 'accuracy roll'. I love how PF2 now calls it 'strike' which defines it a bit more.

Grand Lodge

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Yes please!

I'm guessing 90% of PF players are yankees so it probably won't happen.

Grand Lodge

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I have a feeling some of my gripes would be solved with an online SRD.

Basically creating a character takes a while, you have to jump around a lot to find what you're looking for, especially for a spell caster (Even with the mighty ctrl+f function). It doesn't feel as fast as Pathfinder 1s character creation.

I don't know if the problem is that things are too modular or that the races HP is only listed between flavour text on the race page above the art work.

I do like the skill system thus far. I feel like DCs are much easier to estimate as a GM and the 3 kinds of success make things more interesting.

Grand Lodge

1.
Yes, ran a bunch of society games too. Stopped playing because everyone migrated to 5e.

2.
It's always been troublesome.

3.
Sort of. 5e is very flat and lacks a lot of personality, but it's very easy to homebrew so I often steal content and ideas from PF SRD for it. 4e I wasn't allowed to play (which is why I played PF)

4.
I'd like the game to just run faster. Pathfinder doesn't feel 'fast' it feels 'math'.

5.
This may be difficult to come at with fresh eyes, but Table Top RPGs are disgusting to try to 'get into'. I know people who play every new board game that comes out and they don't play D&D type games because they are 'too difficult and weird'. These are people who play Terraforming Mars, Betrayal: House On The Hill and Settlers Of Catan; they have the ability but lack the impetus and it's all D&Ds fault, not theirs.

6.
Less accessible, I don't know how that's possible but lets say the core rule book is only written in sanskrit cyphers I would burn it all and never come back.

7.
I am still struggling to learn PF2s system. I've read the book for 5 hours and managed to run a quick an dirty session with some other interested people- I still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

8.
PF2.5 (Lite Edition)

Grand Lodge

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If undead don't have to be evil I also demand room temperature fire elementals and civilized bugbears and every other postmodern whim of fancy I come up with.

Grand Lodge

Classic adventure made for hardcore players. I love it! Can't wait to see the conversion, might even back a physical copy.

Grand Lodge

Xerres wrote:
And, sorry to say, I think it's a bit ridiculous that you ask for this evidence and then dismiss it with "I can fix the problem, so there is no problem." It works for your games, I'm sure, but you play the game...

Hey, I know some people hate things about the system immediately like 'I hate how I have to rest for 8 hours to cast spells why can't my MP recover every second like in <video game>' and they think THAT it is a problem with the system.

Also, I rarely softball things at my players. I've killed multiple characters, both magical and martial. My game isn't a perfect 1:1 balanced CR appropriate encounter, it's usually a wild rollercoaster of tuckers kobolds and invisible, flying, exploding elementals with sudden teleporting giants and ethereal wall jaunting ghosts.

I'm also not saying I have the perfect solution to each tables problems, as I admitted in the previous post, but I am aware that the problem is more complex than a handwave and uttering the meme 'caster vs martial'. I am interested in the solution(s) not just complaining about them online and then getting upset if specific suggestions are offered in place of just moping around a subject and blaming some weird abstract system problem as opposed to what can be done at the table.

Grand Lodge

I would love to see a place between 5e speed and ease and PF's customization and variety.

I'm pretty sure there's a system between those two things just waiting to be born.

Grand Lodge

MerlinCross wrote:

I don't know about Martial vs Caster, but I rerolled Caster vs Caster. Sorcerer took over my role/space with a simple bloodline and some healing items and the enemies were immune/resistant to my Shaman tricks.

Rerolled to Alchemist. Having more fun.

BigDTBone wrote:
Yes, and from both sides of the screen. I’ve had players choose options for their wizard which completely outclassed me as a martial character and made combat a foregone conclusion where I was a mere spectator...
kyrt-ryder wrote:
I have discarded useless characters for new ones that get to play the game at high levels and seen a player leave because, and I quote 'my guy doesn't even matter. He just hits stuff if the other guys boost him or mess with the bad guys'
Fuzzypaws wrote:
In my longest campaign in recent years, I ended up having to add Mythic to the game around 10th level, mostly to help the martials. The party, which was mostly martial and had only had a couple half casters to that point, ended up with a super powerful pure caster when one of the players rerolled after dying. This caster pretty much automatically MVPed every session and the other players were in their shadow.
Xerres wrote:

Just last month actually. Guy re-trained to get spells because my Magus and a Druid could handle the many challenges of the game with ease thanks to our magic, while he had to rely on us every time or just watch. Doing high damage didn't matter, Magus and the Druid both did that fine, and the Magus was tougher than his martial character because of Protector Familiar.

With no real niche, because Magic is always better, he felt very irrelevant and wanted to change.

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Social situations? I had better Cha (for channeling), higher Int (for skill points), and much, much better Sense Motive (due to Wis). Figuring out the plot? Why investigate when divination spells basically tell you not to bother? When we came to the shark tank encounter, I almost lied and said I didn't have control water prepared -- but I totally did. The cavalier even saw it on my sheet and said, "Why are the scout and I even playing?"

...

I for one never saw a martial/caster disparity on paper, until I experienced it in the actual game.

Thanks for all the replies, but I'm still struggling to see the exact problem other than people huffing, crossing their arms and being envious or having a clash with some other problem inherit to D&D in general as opposed to PF.

I've ran 3.5/PF/4e/5e over the course of a decade and I've never ever had this sort of problem outside of single sessions where I give the players a scenario where only one PC in the group has the ability to overcome the obstructions ahead. For example, a paladin against demons or undead, a cleric during a plague outbreak, a wizard fighting constructs, a rouge against a BBEG who has an item on his person that needs to be pilfered because it's the McGuffin of ultimate power or whatever.

I always throw layered and difficult sessions at my players, traps and puzzles and enemies with interesting formations or tactics along with weird geography and location designs. I've always found that being multifaceted in the design approach to the combats allowed every player to manifest their 'talent' in their own special snowflake way.

Some people have put forward specific problems that seem just like bad game design met with "I made my character wrong" which always blows my mind that it's even a thing the GM would allow. But I digress; these seem like manageable problems that come from a more complicated place than "system is broke"

"Sorcerer began healing, all the enemies were immune to my stuff"
Well, the problem just sounds like the GM didn't like your character; what, they only threw immune targets at you? Seems fairly trite. I don't think this is a system problem, more of a GM/pvp issue.

"Yes someone played wizard and it was awful!"
I'm not sure about the specifics but the fact that 'overhauls' were necessary seems like a mix of different player type and levels.

"Fighter got bored"
Yes this can happen, I think this is an actual problem with PF/3.5 because a martial might be like 'I want to bust in through the door and swing down the curtain and cut the chandelier rope!' only to get the reply 'no you can't do that. Also you don't have the feats for it'. I just throw most of that rules clunk into the bin for that particular theme of stuff.

"Fighter didn't want to fight because Magnus and Druid were already doing it"
If you're pouring enemies on your players and they dry up before getting to every player- and this problem repeats itself, something went wrong in other areas of preperation on the GMs side.

"Caster MVPed everything, also mythic levels"
Mythic levels can definitely throw a curve ball at keeping everyone on the same tier of play (Mythic tier in my mind is 'Do you know how feats work??')

"I tried really hard to not win, but I won"
If anything it sounds like as a player you were far more advanced than anyone else at the table. I've seen this problem before where a very experienced, very skilled player does everything with a feather touch and always succeeds because they can predict outcomes and manipulate elements of the system. You were just out of your weight class.

Grand Lodge

Real talk: has anyone played a PF game where you stopped playing because the wizard ruined when they cast spells? This is always a theory/forum/mental gymnastics problem but I've never played a game where a caster ruined the day for materials.

Grand Lodge

52) What is the DC to jump over a 10ft pit?

Grand Lodge

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A 'return to the start' maze works in D&D. You simply show them a map they can travel through and then describe the world acting non-euclidean.

GM: There's a thick forest grove up ahead, it splits off into 3 directions other than the entrance you're at, North, East and West.
Player 1: I go East.
GM: You wander through the Eastern branch of the forest, you arrive several minutes later back the entrance..
Player 1: I go North then.
GM: You wander North, you find a different grove that once again splits multiple directions...

And so on until they get the patter right. Of course this is D&D so every time they fail feel free to add in a bad effect, an annoying but quick combat or a loss of time negatively impacting something.

Grand Lodge

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You're inside the cave, there's a funny tingling salt scent in the air. The chamber opens up to a perfectly clear pool full of bleached white rocks.

Player 1: Uh, I throw the end of my rope in the pool.
GM: It bubbles and vanishes before your eyes.
Player 1: Oh that seems bad... is there any exits?
GM: There's no other exits in the room.
Player 2: No duh there's no exits, I jump into the pool.
Player 1: What??
GM: Uh, are you sure you want to do that?
Player 2: Of course.
GM: Okay... you take... 94 acid damage.
Player 2: WHAT!?
Player 1: Why did you just kill yourself like that.
Player 2: You said it was magical teleporting water! The rope VANISHED!!
GM: ...
Player 1: ...

Grand Lodge

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It's a bad idea to punish players because they don't embellish their actions; it's not like in that 10 seconds where you explain that their 'role-playing' wasn't good enough they're suddenly going to have some introspective moment where they see the error of their ways. But it's a good idea to reward players who do go that extra effort. This is also something that should be outlined as an expectation during session 0.

As long as they can preface their action with some sort of description that is perfectly fine. Like say for example they're trying to intimidate a band of hobgoblins to back down from a skirmish.

"I intimidate for 42"
"Uh... what are you doing"
"Intimidating"
"Okay... they have a -2 as you demoralize them."

"I cut my hand and wipe the blood across my brow before giving my warcry. 42 intimidation!"
"Awesome! the hobgoblins back away, some drop their weapons while others look for an exit"

And I mean... a lot of tabletop players are charisma -4. If you catch my drift. Try to meet them half way.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Paths typically don't throw impossible encounters at players, they do seem to linger on a softer touch when it comes to encounters.

Keep all the stats the same, but add more enemies; even doubling the number of enemies.

- Less homework to do because the stats are the same
- More action economy
- Difficult to focus fire
- Better and more complex tactics available

Alternatively, you could have enemies engage in one place and then 'call for help' and have other enemies arrive from another room or offscreen as the fight progresses. Let us say 3 thugs engage the PCs, but the PCs easily dispatch them, oh well 6 thugs came to help them. It's a great way to temper the difficulty on the fly if you feel you can never seem to get fights to be challenging.

Of course, you should let players steamroll enemies. It just feels so good as a player to basically get the D&D equivalent of A+ PERFECT RANK after a fight.

Grand Lodge

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It seems to be a problem on forums but not so much at the table.

"We played D&D and the wizard ruined everything!!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Grand Lodge

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As far as content goes Paizo write some really amazing, well detailed and compelling adventures. A typo or spelling mistake is like a fart in a tornado.

Grand Lodge

After about level 3 you leave the realm of humanity and start moving towards superhero levels of durability.

Grand Lodge

TOZ wrote:
Because that kind of game is s*%!.

Great non-answer! Must have taken you all day.

Typically the PCs are tied into the events, whether it be their background or the inciting event that you come up with that drags them into the scenario. Usually, you can threaten a PCs family or loved one, or maybe even have the party get the ire of the big bad because reasons.

Or just tell the party how phat the loot is on this lich. That usually gets their blood pumpin'.

Grand Lodge

This is pretty handy. I might use it in the future, thank you. :)

Grand Lodge

Basically, if you don't trust me in my game the world will become weaponized against you because I describe the nature of the scene, not what you think I want your character to see.

But this is more complex than a Gotcha! situation, this is trying to get the player to think critically of their decisions in such a way that they might get mastery over their character and their place in the world or lose/die as a consequence of their poor choices.

I use dice for tension too. It's a great way to quash metagaming along with bad players. Just roll random d20s, it's less suspicious when something is sneaking around or an effect was triggered. More often than not less mature players try to 'play the GM' as opposed to playing the scenario.

Gygax's words are often taken out of context, he was dealing with the losers (who still hang around today) who try to play D&D one particular weird way where they memorize monster manuals and work out loopholes and make atrocious characters with unrelatable concepts. Tomb Of Horror was a good example of this and you could talk for days on the auteur theory behind all of it.

If you don't trust the GM, the question isn't 'why are you even playing?' the question is 'are you too cowardly to GM yourself?'

Grand Lodge

Nethys, "Elder God" wrote:
I reinvented myself. I then reinvented a whole lot of other things too.

Funny, I look at you and think "Oh, look what magic did".

Irori on the other hand...

Grand Lodge

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CrystalSeas wrote:
Taverns are the Starbucks/McDonalds of Golarion

One adventure party please, hold the Drizzt clones.

Grand Lodge

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Summon some sort of planar creature who be mad at the Earth blowing up. Sort of like a telephone call.

"Uh, hi. Wizard here, your house is on fire. Yeah. Yeah. Mmmhm. No like there's all the bombs- ... Okay, sure well I can't really do anything except tell you. ... No I'm not allowed to use Wish ... No I mean I'm arbitrarily not allowed to ... are you dissing my build? Screw you then I have a demiplane I can chill in- forget you"

Grand Lodge

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Get your 'to hit' and 'damage' numbers higher than any other numerical value on your sheet.

If you don't do this then your character is a pile of garbage and you deserve to lose.

---meanwhile elsewhere---

I picked up skill focus: knitting because I think my character would be good at it. Also I made their charisma really high eschewing most of the other stuff because I want people to like them

lfg barbarian

Grand Lodge

I love reading through the bloat, there are some interesting ideas and concepts that are explored and it gives you a good idea of how to flavour your game.

But giving your players unmitigated access to every single published book is going to cause systematic problems.

I found the best way to do it is to pick and choose books according to your setting/campaign and things will usually go well when it's treated as inspiration for your characters as opposed to a system to be manipulated for your own advantage.

Quote:
I miss Use Rope.

Objectively the worst thing about Pathfinder. How am I supposed to use a rope now Paizo?! This is why we can't have nice things.

Grand Lodge

I believe all the goblins from We Be Goblins! suits this.

Grand Lodge

This has been a problem for a long time in D&D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9vECzikqpY

Grand Lodge

The Mesmerist feels like the better, quieter bard. The Psychic is a 9th level caster and I think it's better than the sorcerer from what I've seen (but haven't been able to play yet).

Grand Lodge

I love the ideas they put forth in it, Kineticist was everything I ever wanted from an elementally themed adventurer.

But I've read the class page at least a dozen times and I still just do not get it when I'm at the table.

The other classes just seem like they raise the power creep once again, I mean, I don't hate it but it definitely feels like the ruleset has expanded well beyond human comprehension at this point.

I'm sure there are groups out there that have been able to pick this up and do something really fun, but it's probably rarer than Advanced/Ultimate adaptions.

Grand Lodge

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Whenever I return to the messageboard this thread is the one true lighthouse- the anchor I can hold onto in the wild sea of threads. Thank you Sin of Asmodeus.

Grand Lodge

Normally I'd just role play a great performance check for this but for some reason it has to be made a specific class ability so I guess you can't draw crowds without it.

Cast Mass Suggestion and now you have an old fashioned lynch mob.

Grand Lodge

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Ghoul feaver? Brain worms? Mummy rot?!! Good grief the clients of the cheapies are extremely varied. Supernatural STDs.

Grand Lodge

I have a feeling that Erastil would be not cool with cannibalism and at best, indifferent. Though, in Pathfinder don't cannibals become Ghouls?

Grand Lodge

A slew of goblins

With a single Nilbog with barbarian class levels.

Grand Lodge

Are there any other listings of Supernatural diseases like Mummy Rot? Disease is such a moot thing in Pathfinder after a few levels.

Grand Lodge

I'd dip a single level into Bard so you can pick up some wands, get some knowleges, gain a bunch of skill points and still wear some armour when casting.

I don't know why you need arcane though, is it a setting requirement? We're you asked by other players? Do you actually want to go Theurge?

Grand Lodge

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Derklord wrote:

Because I really dislike the "it's this way in our culture, therfore it must be this way in Golarion, too, even for non-humans".

I also dislike accepting double standards without reflection (what, killing goblins is OK because they're goblins, but eating an already dead magical horses is totally evil?).

I'm not saying it definitely should be treated as eating road kill. I'm saying the GM should carefully consider the PCs and the unicorns completely alien cultures before making a decision.

I do agree with what you're saying about the cultural homogeneousness some people have with fantasy. I think 'morality' in this situation is the wrong concept. What we're really discussing is reputation; how actions will reflect on how others perceive us. Picking your nose is not an alinged act, but you'll definitely get reactions.

Grand Lodge

More that one way to something something.

Grand Lodge

I believe the iconic antipaladin was specifically good and nice to some guy and then later sacrificed him.

http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Urgraz

Yep, what a jerk.

Grand Lodge

Overall, Pathfinder will never be easy for a kid to play (It's hard enough for adults as it is).

Sorcerer with a bunch of spell cards that easily explain some general useful spells (sleep, scorching ray, invisibility) and tokens or markers to represent their spell pool. Very straight forward.

Grand Lodge

The Antipaladin falls rises.

The city if Geb might have such 'moral dilemmas' if say, you want to destroy the market of black onyx, but you also want to raise undead for yourself.

Or what about a group of ghouls that want fresh flesh and you have to choose between feeding them slaves or orphans.

Decisions decisions...

Grand Lodge

I always felt like the fighter should have a menagerie of weapons strapped all over them, fire swords, lighting lances, poison daggers, sonic bows, thunder hammers etc along with a selection of shields and armour to tailor to their enemies tactics. A weapon for all occasions and armour for all demands; it's their form of flexibility- prepared casters prepare spells and fighters put on a magical equipment fashion show.

Sadly the mechanics punish you for such ideas, as with the affirmationed "Valeros can't understand why one of his swords is shorter, so he loses all the bonuses" issue.

I can understand why at lower levels it would be a concern but once you've moved into the teen levels the one-weapon pony is bad mechanically and thematically.

Grand Lodge

Also it's worth noting that the nature of being able to attack squares you're not adjacent too is in itself, very potent.

- You can attack while still getting full cover, from around corners or behind things etc.
- You can attack 'through' your allies preventing a lot of obstruction issues.
- You can avoid Attacks of Opportunities because the enemy can't reply, no need to pick up improved disarm/trip.
- You can use other feats with your reach, my personal favourite is Cleave and Combat Patrol which makes things almost silly as you whisk your way across the battlefield tripping and cleaving anything that gets close like some sort of upside down lawnmower.

Grand Lodge

I've always thought it was fixed to a location, like a dog on a chain so to speak. ;)

It can move about in it's area. If the intruder got past it, it would bark loudly for 1 round per caster level and then vanish. I believe the nature of the spell was to make a trap and a sentry in one, so the limitations on movement were added to prevent you from simply conjuring an entourage of invisible bodyguards wherever you went.

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