You give up spells known for the ability to cast any of your spells known when you need them.
You sacrifice spell known versatility to get versatility in not having to prepare spells.
If you could learn more spells you would basically be better than a wizard in most ways.
Pages of spell knowledge would help. As would wands.
Honestly, if you want the spell versatility of a Wizard, perhaps you can convince your GM to...
A) Let you rebuild as a Wizard (and adjust your stats accordingly),
B) Let you rebuild as an Arcanist (which is akin to a Wizard-Sorcerer blend),
C) Let you just change some of your Sorcerer spells out for more versatile ones.
C is the most likely option to work. I'd look into any guide on building flexible sorcerers with your spell selection.
Nice catch. Yeah, ask your GM if you can redo some of your favored class bonuses.
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You could "invent" Rings of Spell Knowledge and Pages of Spell Knowledge?
The Ring of Spell Knowledge (depending on it's level) can allow you to add arcane spells you encounter to your list of spells known if you can succeed on a Spellcraft check at the time, and even allows you to learn arcane spells that are not on the Sorcerer/Wizard list (albeit at one level higher than normal).
You could also buy Pages of Spell Knowledge to be able to effectively learn more spells on the Sorcerer/Wizard list - one spell per page, with an increasing cost with spell level.
Sorcerers, by the rules, aren't as flexible as wizards or arcanists. If you didn't understand that when you planned and made your character then you need to either ask your GM about changing at least part of your character (by one of the ways mentioned above, or by taking the mongrel mage archetype perhaps, or look up the Words of Power system), or you need to change the concept of your character.
Have a look at spheres of power. It might be what you want
It sounds like you choose the wrong class for your character. You basically want to play a wizard instead of a sorcerer.
You talk about the deeper meaning behind being a sorcerer without really understanding what it is. A wizard cast spells by understanding how to tap into magical energies to power his spells. You don’t actually have any magic power yourself. With careful preparation you can condition your mind to allow you to draw on magical energies to cast spells. This is not a natural thing for you and cause great stress to yourself. Each spell you cast disrupts your mind causing damage to your mind. This damage is in the form of short term memory loss. Basically each spell has to be relearned every day. If you want to cast a spell more than once per day you have to learn it multiple times.
A sorcerer on the other hand is a magical creature who is able to cast spells naturally. They don’t actually learn spells they simply have the innate ability to cast them. They don’t have to understand how they cast they simply do. When you cast a spell you are for the most part drawing on your own power. Doing so does not cause damage to your mind so you don’t have to relearn your spells every day. This also means that you can cast any spell you know as often as you like. Understanding how magic works really does not do much for a sorcerer. You could have a 3 INT and still be a powerful sorcerer. You may not be able to talk coherently, but you can cast 9th level spells.
There are ways a sorcerer can expand his abilities that have already been pointed out. There is a limit to how much you can expand your ability and in all cases it will require resources to do so. Using the favored class bonus for humans and the feat for extra arcana is a good start. You can also get various magic items to give you access to more spells. One item that other have forgotten is Mnemonic vestments. It allows you to use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source such as a scroll or spellbook as if you know the spell. It only works once per day but it would allow you to use a spell book.
One other thing about increasing sorceror flexibility -- try and pick flexible, multi-use spells that can do quite a few different things. (Illusions are one example. So are summons.)
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A lot of wonderful advice here about excellent ways that you can possibly expand your character to achieve the results that you want. Personally, I think you probably want to be playing an arcanist or wizard, but that's neither here nor there.
One thing that I do want to mention, however, is that everything from your subject line to your post makes it seem like you're trying to pull something over on your GM and that you're taking an adversarial stance against him or her.
There's nothing in your post that would require the advice of GMs unless you're trying to get some sort of leverage against your own. So I'll give you some advice, as a GM: stop it. This is a cooperative game, and your GM is the final arbiter of his or her game. If you don't like the way the game is ran, your strength/empowerment as a player is to pick up your dice and walk away (and don't try and do it as some sort of power play, either. I mean if you're not having fun, it might not be the right table.)
Let your character have some time off to study magic.
And grab 1 level of a mage.
That will reflect exactly what you're trying to achieve and how you proposed to achieve it, at the cost of your sorcerer's effectiveness.
wansnt the spell reserch stuff specifically designed for sorcerers tho? seems weird the dm would say naw thats for wizards
Yes, sorcerers can do that too. Thing is, the new spell that you research will come in place of and not in addition to the spells you learn when you level up next. Basically, spell research allows you to invent something cool (or borrow something cool from a non-standard source, and say your character invented it) and with the DM's approval, this new spell gets added to your list of spells known as soon as you also advance a level which grants you an additional spell of that level. But you give up the other spell that you would have learnt instead.
That's how it works for "spell research stuff".
There are also numerous existing ways to expand your spells known which already appear in published Paizo sources. Most if not all are mentioned in the above posts. One of the most frequently used is "page of spell knowledge" which can get kinda pricy, but it's guaranteed to work.
For example, 16K gold for a 4th level spell, plus 16 days spent writing it... by someone who knows the spell. So it's unlikely you can write it yourself (at half price), unless your DM allows you to circumvent that requirement for a paltry +5 on the spellcraft DC to craft it.
Otherwise, as mentioned above, a sorcerer who writes down spells in a spellbook is called an arcanist. Cool class, check it out.
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I'm going to agree with everyone else. Your GM is not being unreasonable at all.
You mention the "deeper meanings behind a sorcerer" and proceed to describe your character as a font of magical discovery. That's a perfectly valid way to personally flavor your character. But there's a difference between rules (crunch) and role-playing (flavor). There are games that are played purely by description and imagination rules all. The Pathfinder ruleset is not one of those. Many, many balance factors are built in. In the sorcerer/wizard case the sorcerer gets many more spell slots per day but far fewer known spells she can cast. That's a very intentional decision.
The rules on independent research exist for two reasons.
1. If you are running a "low-magic" campaign where there are almost no spellcasters or magical writings in the world it may not be possible for the wizard to find someone to teach him even what we consider a common spell (haste, for example.) This use is for magical classes who need a written source to learn spells (wizard, arcanist, alchemist).
2. To create (with GM approval) a spell that doesn't appear in a published Paizo book. Either a variation or something brand new. This use is open to anyone, even clerics (who can choose from all the cleric spells every day without a book) and spontaneous casters (who gain spells automatically as they level and no other ways). In the case of a spontaneous caster such a spell would ordinarily be gained upon level-up in place of the normal spell of that level -or- replace an existing spell of that level. A GM could approve adding it as a new spell known but such needs to be handled carefully to avoid imbalancing the classes.
If you are truly unhappy with the sorcerer I would suggest talking to your GM about changing characters. As many people have suggested, an arcanist is probably a good choice for what you want to do. Depending on your group and campaign it could be a simple as saying "the sorcerer retired and I'm playing an arcanist now" or work out a smoother role-playing transition. (A power-hungry arcanist usurped the sorcerer several weeks ago and has been using spells to pretend to be the same person.)
Spontaneous casters can be tough to play. Spell selection is critical.
It's just become a hassle, what's so bad about letting me use the independent research rules? Nothing States I can't. I'll still pay the research fee. And go by the rules but it's hit the point where I just wanna tear the sheet up. I'm playing a character I didn't want for dumb reasons and he will not allow me to adjust my character
Yow! That's a lot of angst! It does sound like this campaign is becoming a train wreck, and will be over soon, in no small part because of the DM's inflexibility. Also understand though, you as a player also need to be flexible.
There are several of us saying that you can indeed use the independent research rules. But that does not give you additional spells known. It allows you to choose some new or unique spell as one of your spells known.
A Page of Spell Knowledge for a 1st level spell is only 1000gp. Not bad at all. And you can have several of them. A 2nd level spell starts getting prohibitive at 4000gp, and it gets worse from there, but at least you'll know there are options.
Favored class bonus. A feat. Other magic items. Really, I think sorcerers are spoiled for multiple ways to get extra spells onto their spells known list. You said you have 6 levels of sorcerer?
FCB gives you 6 extra spells, right there!!!
All you have to give up is a few hit points or skill points. Flavor it as if you are doing research, and ask your DM if you can simply retrain your FCB, since you didn't realize this option was available.
Where do you live, maybe there's a better group you can find. :-)
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Basically got trapped into the character by the Gm, he knew I didn't want to be a sorcerer but pleaded with me not to be one because our mutual friend who had just came back from the military could play what he wanted. I hate the sorcerer class. It's the one class in Pathfinder I feel like Is just completely outclassed by it's counterparts. The Champaign has gone downhill. We barely play. So it's just hit a point of inconvenience. AND I don't really want to even Play. RP is barely an aspect. No one addressed independent research other than. A feat might make it work . I just want like the ability to learn an additional two spells per spell level even if I had to pay f!!&ing gold for it. It gets boring doing the same thing over and over due The very restrictive limits. So yeah I should've probably stopped playing. The DM also made another player quit because he didn't like the player making money with item creation
2 spells per level.. yeah that's basically a wizard that also gets spontaneous casting. kinda over powered.
I can't say I fully understand a "low magic" environment where 1 party has a wizard and a mage, but that's a side point.
It sounds simply like you're getting quite frustrated with the game as a whole under the current circumstances, the party already has an arcane caster I can't say I see why a Mage specifically is neded over any other arcane caster, even a second wizard, or why you couldn't change to any other class at all. I would present how you feel to the party and the GM, let them know that you are not having fun and would like to change your character. If they don't allow it, then sounds like that is not the game for you, nothing wrong with that.
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GM lied about the campaign being" low magic" magic items circulate or at least we've seen them. But no one in the party even has a enchanted weapon. We've been around countless other magic users. The situation was s#$$ months ago but I've been begging the DM to work with me
If this is how you feel, the problem isn't that you're playing a sorcerer, it's that there isn't any trust between you and the GM. Time to find a new game.
I'm just f+*~ing done, this whole experience is just ruined DND for me. I quit
...or a new hobby. That works too.
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I am a generous and flexible GM, I regularly end up with overpowered pc's and I would never give you what you want as a sorceror. It is far too powerful. (I would let you change to Arcanist or Wizard)
What you want is to not play a Sorceror this is your problem. Solution is to not play a Sorceror, this may mean a different game or a different system. Solutions to solve your problem by making your character vastly more powerful are not solutions to the problem.
Listen to all the posters telling you to either change your character or change your game you will have more fun that way
Why a sorcerer? Because he didn't want me to go anything other than core but let everyone else have their fill.
I was persuaded by a GM to pick a certain class (druid) once, and it was quite awful. So I can only recommend: Play what you want or don't play at all. Small experiments and compromises are ok, but don't waste your time just to do someone a favor or to play by all means. This applies to all RPGs, so quitting DnD / Pathfinder doesn't solve your problem.
If you just want 2 additional spells per spell level, the aforementioned human favored class bonus gets you covered.
The rules state any class can use independent research to learn spells
Are you even reading our answers?
Several of us have agreed that you *can* use "independent research to learn spells". It's just that they are not *additional* spells.
Anything else regarding independent research is up to your DM and you. But if you want a rules answer, as in what do the rules allow, that's it.
<disarming smile>
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You use independent research to create new spells or variations in existing spells that aren't already supported by rules.
Ex: a version of the ray of frost cantrip that deals fire damage, instead.
You DON'T use independent research to add spells to your spells known above and beyond what the chart allows. If you want to create a new or variant 3rd level spell, it would be the only one you're allowed to know as a 6th level sorcerer. More likely, the researched spell would be gained at 7th sorcerer level, when you acquire a new 3rd level spell.
But beyond all that, it sounds like you should really try another group. By your description, the GM wasn't being fair to you from the beginning, regarding your character "choice".
D&D and its like can be very fun, but only if you're going to have fun with the people you interact with.
One thing you might want to try, if the group stays together and all, is to use spells that allow you to be more creative. For example, illusion spells allow you to make an image of almost anything you can think of. This can let you use one spells in a wide variety of situations from combat to social encounters.
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I'm just f@+*ing done, this whole experience is just ruined DND for me. I quit
I was going to weigh in to agree with many of the others about the implicit balance of sorcerers having more spells slots as opposed to the versatility of wizards knowing more spells, and how altyering that too much one way or the other disrupts the balance. I also likely would have commented that your intent focus on spell research as an avenue to get more spells known was blinding you to the myriad helpful options others have taken the time from their day to outline for you (not to mention that it was also explained by several others that you *could* use spell research to learn new spells under the rules, but not to augment the *number* of spells known).
It seems like those comments are now moot, however, and that rather than trying to work through your concerns constructively with your current DM and group or to look for a different group to play with where you don't feel pigeon-holed into a class you don't want, you've just elected to give up playing.
That's definitely a valid choice, as this game isn't for everyone, particularly if you find the nature of the rules to be constraining. I certainly wouldn't recommend continuing to spend your time on something you find frustrating and not particularly fun. I just hope that you have better luck with your next venture!
Yeah, grab the human FCB, maybe devote a feat or two to Expanded Arcana if you really need. Unfortunately, you will get absolutely wrecked by taking Eldritch Knight levels, which will preclude the FCB.
Page of Spell Knowledge is out there, as well, but it's really only good for lower level spells. Anything 4+ is prohibitively expensive.
Not sure if I missed something but has anyone suggested paragon surge? That spell plus expanded arcana feat solves your problem. You're even already a half elf. Ask your gm if you can work out paragon surge to save your game.
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I mean with the Human FCB you are already getting at least 2 new spells per level. and then at level 4 on your gain at least one new spell of your highest level. A lv 5 sorc without spending gold has nine 0 level, six 1st level and three second. and can cast at least 8 1st and 6 2nd per day.
A wizard at lv 5 has all 0 level except, assuming just trying to get as many spells as possible, daze and resistance, 8 first level, 5 second level, and 3 third. But can only at any time have 10 different spells.
So a sorcerer can cast a total of more diverse spells more often then a wizard. What you want to do literally would make the sorcerer stronger than the wizard in literally ever single way except how fast they get higher level spells.
If you honestly think you should have nine 0, twelve 1st, and seven second. Then I really don't know what to tell you. That would be like saying barbarians should get extra bonus feats like fighters, because it's not fair that fighters get more feats.
Since we don't have independent information on the GM or group, this is all speculation on my part. I can put out that I have GMed for, and played alongside, players that proved themselves incapable of playing non-disruptively without a lot of supervision. The standard was taking extra archetype powers without losing the powers that should have been replaced, but sorcerers expanding spells known was pretty common.
Sorcerers are an interesting but limited and not prone to unsubtlely dominating a game, and are relatively difficult to "artificially enhance" without being obvious about it. OP posts do not encourage me to fault the GM on this. If I am reading what OP's posts correctly, I would not have allowed what he wanted either. If the GM restricted player options due to Historical problems with the player, I would have made that very clear to him.
There were a LOT of good ideas posted.
Spontaneous casters can be tough to play. Spell selection is critical.
It's essentially a tradeoff between "I have to make these choices every single day" and "I have to make these choices once, but I can't screw it up" in terms of mental hassle for prepared vs. spontaneous casters. Honestly I think this is pretty balanced, as different people will come to reasonable justifications for why one or the other is preferable to them.
The one thing I'm confused about is why the GM argued for "sorcerer" specifically in terms of the one class they needed for the party. It seems that any role filled by a sorcerer could be filled by a wizard or arcanist (or even psychic) just as well; it seems like the party role is "9th level arcane caster" not "spontaneous 9th level arcane caster." It seems very much like the sorcerer has enough ways to enhance their spells known as it is, and adding more would kind of turn the sorcerer into something other than what it is. I wonder if the GM and the OP could compromise on retraining to be an arcanist instead; it's not a great entry to Eldritch Knight since it wants both INT and CHA, but it at least seems to be what the OP wants.
The rules state any class can use independent research to learn spellsAre you even reading our answers?
Several of us have agreed that you *can* use "independent research to learn spells". It's just that they are not *additional* spells.
This x 1000.
Your problem is multifaceted.
You know, looking at this thread again, I believe this is what happened:
Sorcerer Player: I want to use spell research, so I can know a metric ton of spells I can cast freely. Wizards and their spell prep can suck it, I'm a font of eldritch power.
GM: Doesn't work that way.
Sorcerer Player: You are wrong, I'll use the powers of the internet to prove it!
Online GM's: Doesn't work that way. But you could do this or this.
Sorcerer Player: But I want this to work! Exactly the way I interpret it.
Online GM's: No, it doesn't, but here's some more ideas how to solve this.
Sorcerer Player: Screw you guys, I'm going home. This game sucks.
It's just me or is this whole thing asking for some Tableflip McRagequit insight?