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So a really dodgy system for generating Godlike stats has gotten out of hand, and there's some additional magic houserule that stops 20'a hitting? You have further compounded this by removing their vulnerabilities and giving them extra stuff to help them be more Uber?
OK
Mate you are hosed and this is now well past the point of being able to correct.
May as well just finish the campaign, they are happy, they are having fun, so give yourself a big tick as they are happy and contended and having a good time.
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If everyone is having fun, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Sounds like the players are having fun, are you?
If you are, then I wouldn't change anything. If you aren't, well, what are you not enjoying about it?
The lack of a challenge to the players? If that is it, I think Shifty has the right idea. Just finish the campaign and mark it down as a learning experience.
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Does the vampire have normal darkvision, or the super version of 'see in darkness' ? If not, plunge the party into a deeper darkness with a bunch of flying archers (who have some way to see in it) delayed to full attack the party, especially Mr. Invincible. With no dex to his AC, it will drop it down to something feasible.
Off the top of my head, only devils get see in darkness, but, hey, you're the GM, fiat some stuff. Special magic item as loot, maybe- a devil's skull made into a helmet?
Take a bralani azata and add a bunch of levels in ranger with favored enemy undead and undead bane bow. Flyers are going to be harder to get sneak attack off on, etc, and what the party/rogue can't see are a lot harder to, well, do anything against.
I'm assuming a party of this level has ways to counter deeper darkness, sure, but in the round it takes for them to do that, your bralani undead-hunter-- who of course is springing an ambush on this group, having heard of this abomination unto the gods that is this anti-paladin vampire-- and his servants are tearing into the party, and definitely into the roguevamp, vs his flatfooted AC.
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Just at a first glance, his Deflection bonus from Smite Good doesn't stack with the +2 deflection he has normally. So good news: he caps out at 49.
Personally, I wouldn't even bother attacking his AC. He's got other weaknesses, and sure, even his saves are pretty high, but not auto-success high. And a 1 always fails, unless you've done away with that rule as well. But to avoid attacking his AC, look at spells and effects that target an area, obstacles that simply lock him in place, and other kinds of things. There might be some hazards that might pose a threat to him.
Of course, you could just let him stomp all over everything. That's fun, too, if that's the game he wants to play. It's not the GM's job to beat the party down, it's just your job to give them stuff to react to. They still have to complete the story, and if they're having fun steamrolling fights as they go from plot point to plot point, you're still running a good game.
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I think you can still use feint to deny him Dex to AC (assuming he doesn't also have a crazy good sense motive). Also, if you make the enemy have at least 4 more levels of rogue, you can still sneak attack him from flanking.
Another thing that my Mummy's Mask DM did (not sure if it's normally in the adventure or not) is have some kind of capsule thing that duplicated all the member of the party one by one. So you could do something similar where they have to fight a clone of the vampire.
Another possibility not focused on damage is that you can make a kensai magus neutral (to avoid the smite good) mercenary with really high AC, so they have an enemy that just as hard to hit. Then you have to find ways to buff Sense Motive, so the rogue is less likely to success on the feint attempt. Plus you can get shocking grasp damage up a fair bit and it's a touch attack. Also, spell perfection.
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I struggled with PC power in this campaign too and i learnt a lot of lessons. The Paladin(anti) being particularly good in a themed campaign with lots of outsiders and clerics for instance. It ended up with me upping the power level of things just to stand a chance of hitting that the campaign became very dangerous indeed. We finished after book 5 and level 18 and accepted that they had won at that point it sounds like you're still a ways off that.
I personally don't have much fun DMing games when enemies only hit on a 20 and PCs hit on 1+. In those situations you might as well handwave combat and just roleplay the story to my mind.
That said, I would tell the players how you feel. Ask them if they are enjoying the story and what they have done so far? Then discuss the potential for either ending or severely downgrading the PCs - allow them to keep their characters and equipment but redesign feats/stats etc but give them a lower points buy and take away the uber templates.
Run it as either the...
Ultimately your players will either want you to carry on as a spectator in your own campaign or will try and accommodate your needs as well. I thought book 5 was the best I played after the 1st so i highly recommend trying to fix things.
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Way of the Wicked suffers from being very poorly designed, encounter-wise. This isn't your fault. It's not even the fault of the extra stats and vampire template. It's because even without those things the encounters in that AP are piss easy. Kinda like Wrath of the Righteous that way.
You basically need to completely re-write the AP's encounters. But, some tips besides that:
1.) Remember that +3 and higher weapons overcome DR/Silver. His DR is useless at the level you're at now.
2.) Offensive Defense is not available as a Talent to Unchained Rogues, it's not on the allowed list of unmodified Rogue Talents nor the new list of Unchained Rogue Talents.
Moreover, it is an Advanced Talent anyway. Even if he were a normal Rogue and not Unchained, as a 9th leve Rogue he does not qualify to take it.
3.) Having played a Nosferatu in WotW, needing to be invited into homes is a huge pain in the ass. Particularly in book 4 or 5 when you need to enter the royal palace.
4.) Use Sunbeam. Mitra has the Sun Domain. It gives Reflex for half but "Save vs instant death" is still spooky.
5.) Keep in mind that Feint normally uses a Standard action. He spent 5 Feats on becoming a vampire. That means he has precisely one Feat left to allocate. 2 Feats if he was a Human. He used one more on Blood of the Deep. That means unless there's some other kind of shenanigans going on, he has a max of two Feats left he can use (one normally, one from Combat Trick). Combat Expertise and Improved Feint are locked.
If he's using his Move action to Feint every turn...have the enemies just ignore him. A single attack with no Power Attack/Piranha Strike is a pinprick, even with the piddling +2 damage from Smite he gets. He's invincible, but zero threat to the enemy.
Give me his full sheet and I can pick it apart even more, probably.
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Dodge Bonuses
Dodge bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.
Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Seems like yeah, feinting denies dodge bonus as well.
Also, glad you found some of my suggestions helpful! :-)
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Definitely with agree with Sundakan that the encounters are really easy. You could safely add 2 levels to every PC class and the advanced template to every monster without it being silly. That still probably wouldn't fix it. I think at one point I kept the PCs 2 levels behind the recommended XP in the book. Then I let them level up really quickly in book 5 to catch them back up to level 18 and threw all kinds of crazy stuff at them and went completely 'off piste'.
That said - this particular character is particularly powerful and I suspect a lot of the solutions presented to deal with him in game would wear thin after a few encounters. The books are relatively combat heavy as written and there are a lot of encounters without spell casting or opportunities for threats.
My gut feel is that this is a campaign structure problem (As Sundakan says) but I'd suggest therefore in game fixes aren't enough. It's honest conversation time.
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Well... you could... y'know...
*gestures meaningfully*
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During the day, a Dispel Magic or similar on that cloak would probably take him out of combat for a few rounds as he tries desperately not to burn to death, assuming its caster level isn't super high.
Wall of Fire does double damage to Undead and has no saving throw. It's not _much_ damage, but if they're stuck in a hallway or something it could add up.
Holy Word should start coming into play soon, at their level. That can be painful even if you make your save.
He's feinting against them, but what's his Sense Motive? Enemies could start feinting back to deny him that Dex bonus. You could also up the Sense Motive of people he's fighting to make feinting tougher to do. There are several spells that let you do this. Added bonus here is that you're not necessarily hurting the other players in order to level the playing field a bit against this one, and his abilities continue to be useful on most enemies.
Offensive Defense won't help much against enemies he can't hit. Up their AC, and add things like Mirror Image and Displacement, throw in Invisibility, Deeper Darkness, or other things that grant total concealment, which shuts down Sneak Attack regardless of Feint.
How are the other characters placed?
Take away his toys. Weapons can be sundered. Equipment can be broken. Money can be stolen.
Just do it to everyone so he doesn't feel targeted.
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Take away his toys. Weapons can be sundered. Equipment can be broken. Money can be stolen.
Just do it to everyone so he doesn't feel targeted.
If you want to piss off your players, do this.
You'd make less enemies throwing endless save or dies at all of them. Getting resurrected costs a hell of a lot less than replacing gear.
Chalk this up as a learning experience on how each decision you make as a DM can have wide ranging consequences.
Perhaps for your next campaign, try using no houserules at all, or as little as possible so that you can get a better appreciation on how standard rule dynamics work.
Master the system as it is BEFORE you tinker with it.
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1.)It needs a proper +3 Enhancement. +1 Fire Burst does not work, a +1 Fire Burst boosted by Divine Bond to +3 (or the Bane special ability) would.
2.) Feats don't pan out. Ninja Tricks don't have an "Improved Feint" option. I'm guessing what he did was Ninja Trick --> Combat Trick (Ninja Trick version) --> Improved Feint. That doesn't work. From the text on the Ninja Trick Rogue Talent " A rogue cannot choose a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent."
3.) 1d4+12+5d6 is an average of 31 damage. The average HP for monsters at CR 10 (and remember, this guy is CR 13, CR 10 should be cannon fodder for him) is 120 HP (this includes Devas and Shield Archons). Taking 4 rounds to kill an enemy you should be able to force to lick your boots in under a round isn't that impressive.
A Paladin of similar level would have close to 100, and be able to heal on average 21 HP per round as a Swift. He can tank that and go try to kill the Wizard.
4.) Slam attack's not a huge threat. He doesn't have an AoMF so he's looking at +17 to-hit which leaves him needing to hit a target between 25 and 30 for the aforementioned "Base fodder" enemies. Unless he drops his dagger he still only gets one chance per round to do it, and can inflict no more than two negative levels per round.
The problem here is that the AP throws Movanic/Monadic Devas and Shield Archons at the party as freakin' END BOSSES at level 10 instead of the basic enemy type your facing, and Paladins and Clerics show up relatively sparsely.
If you change that the math suddenly becomes more fair. Your PC is still "invincible" (though significantly less so without that +5 AC from Offensive Defense), but he shouldn't be fighting enemies that 30 DPR is a threat to in the first place.
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Just at a first glance, his Deflection bonus from Smite Good doesn't stack with the +2 deflection he has normally. So good news: he caps out at 49.
Actually, he already took the non-stacking into account, hence why Smite Good only raises his AC by +5, when his Cha modifier is +7.
1.) Remember that +3 and higher weapons overcome DR/Silver. His DR is useless at the level you're at now.
That... is educational. And rather easy to miss, given that it is only explained at the very back of the rule book. One would imaging it would be something that is mentioned in the magic item section when talking about weapon enhancement.
It also means that any DR/alignment and/or material is largely useless as soon as PCs get access to +5 enhancement bonus weapons (noting a magus can boost their actual enhancement bonus of their weapon with their arcane pool).
2.) Offensive Defense is not available as a Talent to Unchained Rogues, it's not on the allowed list of unmodified Rogue Talents nor the new list of Unchained Rogue Talents.
Moreover, it is an Advanced Talent anyway. Even if he were a normal Rogue and not Unchained, as a 9th leve Rogue he does not qualify to take it.
I'm seeing it as a regular rogue talent, not advanced. But you are correct, it isn't on the unchained rogue talent list.
4.) Use Sunbeam. Mitra has the Sun Domain. It gives Reflex for half but "Save vs instant death" is still spooky.
Unless the cloak also protects against all such spells? Even then, the rogue has evasion and a Reflex save of +26, so it's pretty much a 5% chance of instadeath, 95% chance of nothing =/
5.) Keep in mind that Feint normally uses a Standard action. He spent 5 Feats on becoming a vampire. That means he has precisely one Feat left to allocate. 2 Feats if he was a Human. He used one more on Blood of the Deep. That means unless there's some other kind of shenanigans going on, he has a max of two Feats left he can use (one normally, one from Combat Trick). Combat Expertise and Improved Feint are locked.
He is human (so 7 feats normally), though he can also burn a rogue talent to grab Combat Trick for an 8th feat. Not sure on what the 8 feats were to qualify for vampire, though I'm guessing one was the Iron Will mentioned in his writeup?
If he's using his Move action to Feint every turn...have the enemies just ignore him. A single attack with no Power Attack/Piranha Strike is a pinprick, even with the piddling +2 damage from Smite he gets. He's invincible, but zero threat to the enemy.
He won't be using Feint if there's someone to flank with.
With a +2 weapon and using feint, it's a single attack at +20 (+8 BAB, +9 Dex, +2 weapon) for around 1d6+11+5d6 (average 32), as a move and standard action. If he has to move he'll be plinking off things as there'll be no sneak attack.
If he can make a hasted full attack due to flanking, he's at +21/+21/+16 with a single weapon, for close to a hundred damage if it all hits. Apply Smite (+7 attack, +5 AC, +2 damage per hit, bypass DR) and he gets very nasty, very fast.
Of course, a Strength based pure antipaladin with a falchion would be way, way nastier... that's another matter.
My recommendation?
Avoid getting into an arms race with the PC, because (unless the rest of the group are just as disgusting) anything that can hit and threaten him will likely mutilate anyone else in the party, which (in my experience) is usually less fun for them than having a teammate be completely untouchable.
Also, combat maneuvers aren't likely to touch his CMD of 38 very easily (10 +8 BAB +9 Dex +5 Str +3 Combat Expertise +2 Deflection +1 Natural), and scaling things CMB up to hit those numbers runs the same issues as above.
If anything, I'd suggest adding (if it makes sense) undead bane. NPC inquisitors are a good way to pull this off without adding to the loot, and given their ability to pile on some buffs to have a modicum of attack bonus. At the very least it gives the PC something to worry about that the rest of the party doesn't.
Bunch of inquisitors with masterwork composite longbows +19/+19 , 1d8+10, +2d6 [average 21]
Noting that he can only use Combat Expertise if he makes an attack roll, his AC would be 35. So our inquisitor firing squad would need 16's to hit, but with 6-12 of them firing 2 shots each, it would get vicious.
Alternatively, inquisitors get true strike. Even sans bard buffs you're looking at +33 , for 1d8+12, +2d6 [average 23] ... from 110 feet away (and it gets sillier if they have Far Shot).
Point being: The right tools and synergy can present a threat. true strike & undead bane snipers are one such option, though I'd suggest using it only once, and only when you feel he needs taking down a peg if he's getting blase'.
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Given how much the players have invested I'd go another direction.
Stop modifying the AP and run it as is, essentially allow those combats to finish quick and easy.
Spend some time developing a parallel side narrative, depending on your group let them know this is a 'Bonus narrative'
Have it involve being contacted by an appropriate evil, demon lord, archdevil, powerful abberation etc, who noticed their talents and offers to put it to good use.
Basically setup some extra tasks in each AP and use those to throw the book at them. Throw in APL +5,+8 encounters at them, have it involve other forces of evil, or whatever else, have fun with it.
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YO.
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so a +2 weapon is just a waste of money then good to know ill skip my +2 enchantments from now on and save for just going streat for the +3 and save days worth of craftingactually it only needs to be a +2 weapon or a +1 silver weapon as +2 is silver while +3 is cold ironIf this was 3.5 you would be correct. Pathfinder has both Silver and Cold Iron at +3 enhancement equivalent.
Except for missing out on that +1 hit/damage for quite a few levels.
sword from +1 to +2 is 6,000gp
it's one of the cheapest ways to get the bonuses.
headband from +2 to +4 is 12,000.
... and nothing else boosts damage, okay that was a fun list.
Attack bonuses you have a few items, but once again, there's not really any good reason to not upgrade your sword while you're working on getting a +3.
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And don't ever forget sunder.
I'm willing to bet a mounted barbarian on a dire bat with a lance could smasher-sunder-strength surge some of his items, and with greater sunder it'll go right through to his HP as well.
But uh. Don't do that more than once or twice. Trust me.
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I'm with Firebug: Oozes. Don't take precision damage, which means debilitating strike won't do anything. Can't be flanked. Plus, a lot of them do bad stuff to people that hit 'em in melee. Oozes.
For a more oddly specific example: Arcane Trickster. Going off the assumption (which may be wrong) that his sense motive isn't as godly as his bluff. You can get ranged feint to knock off his dex and dodge bonuses and scorching ray being touch and all knocks his AC v.s. that spell all the way down to a whopping 12. 10 + 2 deflection.
Heck, for fun get a group of inquisitors and/or clerics with a few cool teamwork feats. Plus, have them grab the feats conviction and potent holy symbol. DC 27 will saves against presented holy symbols isn't great, but with a few of them it should be enough. Plus, any spells or channels that use the holy symbol as a focus count as "presenting for the purpose of keeping vampires at bay". They might even want to grab turn-undead, improved channel, and throw in a bard with "faith singer".
It's not even particularly weird for a group of undead-hatin' NPCs to hunt down a vampire with specifically prepared for methods.
That's the time for the rest of the party to shine, since they don't have to fear the undead-specific threats.
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That's not what the FAQ says.
For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
However comma, it still works as you are asserting. The vampire uses it CHA in place of con for fort saves, while the antipaladin gives a BONUS equal to CHA on all saves. Totally legit.
The whole point of the FAQ is that any untyped attribute bonus to whatever counts as the attribute being the source.
If you have one ability that gives you an untyped bonus to Reflex saves equal to your Cha, and another ability that lets you add you your Cha bonus to your Reflex saves, they do not stack.
If it was instead a typed bonus equal to your Cha bonus (insight, dodge, etc.) then they WOULD stack.
"Untyped" and "no type specified" are equivalent here.
The only way you can stop him now is by sundering his junk, finding ways to drop his charisma and make him suffer from vampire related weaknesses, sunlight can be achieved by the aforementioned sundering. You can even come up with (My personal favourite to fling on all these vampire groupies who seem to want to get infected) is a supernatural disease that afflicts vampires specifically from drinking a bad batch of zee blud, probably from an angel or other divine creature, heck even a cleric of serenrae could have literal sunshine in their blood.
I call it 'nosphyria' which is a mix of porphyria (Do not google unless you have a high fort save) and nosferatu, causing the skin to stretch against the bones and otherwise cause regression into a lesser undead form like a ghoul. It deals 1d4 charisma damage bringing the player to a maximum of 1 charisma, DC 19 fort save for half, every hour the sun is in the sky where they are regardless of it being exposed to it, the damage is halved (or negated with save) if they remain buried underground in a tomb or other such location during the day (This opens up cool opportunities to bring in a wooden steak for my favourite monster to coup de grace). This disease is a double whammy to vampires as most of their abilities DCs are based on charisma and undead's HP are calaculated via it. Suck it vampires. I mean, don't suck it. Suck less. Sucks.
Giving enemies bonus tiers and mythic powers will also tilt the table in favour of their enemies.
Other than all that, if you feel as a GM you are exhausted of your ability to challenge the player and deal with the math involved (Very difficult when something like this happens, especially with stinkin' Mathfinder) then giving up is totally fair, have them face the BBG or BGG or whatever and win, then epilogue them with tales of how hard they 'won' and all the sorts of winning that they had.
And then start a new AP with this knowlege firmly tucked under your belt, give the player a an inch and they will take a 10f pole.