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But then you would have to buy everything that comes out in order to understand the story. Which gets expensive and would turn people off from buying it.
As it is now you just have to get the Inner Sea World Guide in order to get the story, and the PDF is only $10.
Golarion is not a novel, with steps A,B,C, all the way to Z. It's a playground for GMs to tell their own stories in.
Since you brought up X-Files I'll also add that I cared absolutely nothing for the overarching metaplot of the series, I much rather enjoyed the stand alone monster of week episodes.
That was more how I would use it, if possible. I don't think they could sell it on those chopped-up premises. I think they should just make an ordinary AP like the Kings of Absalom that Erik Mona mentioned.
Aroden is not the point of Golarion. Aroden is not the draw of Golarion. Golarion does not revolve around Aroden. His death was an important, world changing, historical event, but so was Earthfall, so was Starfall, so was Jatembe bringing everyone out of the darkness. He was importnat, but he wasn't the only person or event of importance.
Never said he was. And all those other historical events or figures you mention would be really cool to use as basis for an AP as well. And maybe they will. They're making one based on the fall of Azlant, awesome, I'm looking forward to that - if it's good it'll likely be our next AP to run.
But they made three APs based on Thassilon and figures from there. They've made three again based on the rise and rule of a diabolical dynasty (and no, they haven't been about you-know-who). But they've said that they are not interested in telling stories about the death of Aroden. Weird. Just a bit weird. Hey, I'm not some Aroden-hugger (do they exist?), it's not that I want plushies and posters. I just would like to see a shade of cohesion, that they try to tie their world together a bit more, and that someone tells the cameraman to please sharpen the focus - just a little bit. Or that someone just rewrites the first pages in the next printing of the Inner Sea World Guide, and maybe that would cause less confusion.
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They've made three again based on the rise and rule of a diabolical dynasty (and no, they haven't been about you-know-who).
If there wasn't the Death of Aroden, then would be no Infernal Cheliax. Those APs only exist at all because he died.
There's no lack of cohesion or confusion going on though. If Golarion was a serialized setting like you're wanting and it was doing this then yes, you'd be correct. But it's not.
There's no overarching metaplot to focus on. Golarion has never been advertised as "play in a world decimated by the death of the god of humanity." That's not it's main draw, and that's not what got me into Golarion. That's just one of many things that's happened in Golarion's past.
"Never said he was"
But you're asking them to tied the world together more and sharpen the focus on him, like so;
I just would like to see a shade of cohesion, that they try to tie their world together a bit more, and that someone tells the cameraman to please sharpen the focus - just a little bit. Or that someone just rewrites the first pages in the next printing of the Inner Sea World Guide, and maybe that would cause less confusion.
Where's the confusion? Where's the lack of the world being tied together? And why would they focus on one thing over another? That defeats the purpose of the kitchen sink playground we have. I'm the one confused now, what is it that you are asking?
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Where's the confusion? Where's the lack of the world being tied together? And why would they focus on one thing over another? That defeats the purpose of the kitchen sink playground we have. I'm the one confused now, what is it that you are asking?
The confusion is that the definitive book on the setting, the hardback, the Inner Sea World Guide, explores and talks quite much, as it should, about this recent and pivotal event - the one that ushered in the current age even (of which there hasn't been that many).
But the AP's, the engine that rolls on the tracks of all this background, and Paizo's flagship product, all but ignore it. And Paizo said that that's deliberate, basta. So there's the lack of tieing it together. There's the blur. There's the confusion.
If there wasn't the Death of Aroden, then would be no Infernal Cheliax. Those APs only exist at all because he died.
Those APs are based on the fact that House Thrune won a civil war with the help of Hell. That civil war could have been caused by whatever. The fate and death of Aroden does not figure in those APs.
Edited to add answer that somehow got eaten by gremlins
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There's a big article in AP 100 A Song In Silver about Aroden, I highly, highly recommend it for those that want to know more. :-)
As Rysky said, Golarion is a playground for GMs. That said, the death of the god of humanity is one of the playgrounds most popular attractions.
I suppose they will never give it an answer, not even a cohesive line of events that one could track to find the answer. They gave us an article about Aroden (AP 100), and not even that has any conclusion to his death - in fact, it gave us far more questions than answers.
Just like they are never reveling if Nadere is going with Urgathoa, Zyphus or Shelyn; They won't tell us if Kurgess is indeed Cayden and Desna's child; We won't known what happened with Dou-Bral so that he became Zon-Kuthon... And so on...
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There's a big article in AP 100 A Song In Silver about Aroden, I highly, highly recommend it for those that want to know more. :-)
Plus it's just a wonderful pre-published adventure...
There's a big article in AP 100 A Song In Silver about Aroden, I highly, highly recommend it for those that want to know more. :-)Plus it's just a wonderful pre-published adventure...
I don't know what the pre-published version was like, but the published adventure looks fun. :-)
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YOUR PEDANTRY HAS BEEN NOTED BY MY MOST FEARSOME ALIAS!
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Wilkins says he meant "pre-written," or something. Weirdo.
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Where's the confusion? Where's the lack of the world being tied together? And why would they focus on one thing over another? That defeats the purpose of the kitchen sink playground we have. I'm the one confused now, what is it that you are asking?The confusion is that the definitive book on the setting, the hardback, the Inner Sea World Guide, explores and talks quite much, as it should, about this recent and pivotal event - the one that ushered in the current age even (of which there hasn't been that many).
But the AP's, the engine that rolls on the tracks of all this background, and Paizo's flagship product, all but ignore it. And Paizo said that that's deliberate, basta. So there's the lack of tieing it together. There's the blur. There's the confusion.
... it actually doesn't. And over a century ago isn't a recent event. They talk about him some, but they talk more about the Age of Lost Omens, the age the game takes place in.
The APs tell certain stories set in Golarion, and while some are possible because of Aroden's death, none of them "roll on the tracks" so to speak.
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... it actually doesn't. And over a century ago isn't a recent event. They talk about him some, but they talk more about the Age of Lost Omens, the age the game takes place in.
The APs tell certain stories set in Golarion, and while some are possible because of Aroden's death, none of them "roll on the tracks" so to speak.
But it actually does. The name Aroden figures 129 times in the Inner Sea World Guide, excluding maps. He's everywhere in that book. No other figure comes close, poor Desna clocks in on a measly 49.
They roll on the tracks of the setting. Aroden is a big part of the setting, but does not figure almost at all in the APs. Maybe because JJ said in this thread that they are not interested in telling stories about the death of Aroden. Some people, like me, think that's a missed opportunity.
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... it actually doesn't. And over a century ago isn't a recent event. They talk about him some, but they talk more about the Age of Lost Omens, the age the game takes place in.
The APs tell certain stories set in Golarion, and while some are possible because of Aroden's death, none of them "roll on the tracks" so to speak.
But it actually does. The name Aroden figures 129 times in the Inner Sea World Guide, excluding maps. He's everywhere in that book. No other figure comes close, poor Desna clocks in on a measly 49.
They roll on the tracks of the setting. Aroden is a big part of the setting, but does not figure almost at all in the APs. Maybe because JJ said in this thread that they are not interested in telling stories about the death of Aroden. Some people, like me, think that's a missed opportunity.
Except he's not.
The fact that he's dead is the setup for the setting, but that's it.
Out of those 129 how many of them were a part of "Aroden's death"?
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Which one is book 100? I may pick that up...
EDIT: NM I found it :)
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I created the god, and I decided that we should keep the exact details of his death secret to let individual GMs scheme their own schemes, but it's erroneous to suggest that the secret is held because I or anybody else "wants to feel like an insider."
Would it interest you to know that I, the creator of Aroden and the publisher of the company, do not know the "real" story of his death any more than you do?
We have a working theory, a general concept that we keep in mind so that nothing we say in print specifically contradicts that version of events, but that's an internal thing to keep ourselves consistent. It's not public because it's not the actual answer, at least until we publish it. And we don't plan to publish it because we aren't as concerned with the _how_ as we are with the _so what now_ aspect of what becomes of culture when the most popular god dies.
You want to run a campaign where some weird force is killing gods? Cool. Want to do something where Asmodeus led a consortium of fiends to wipe him out? Ok with us!
It's certainly fair to criticize whether the way we've handled this is appropriate, or whether it could have been better, or whatever, but we're not trying to hide the truth from you. We're trying to leave room for you to create your own truth, if you want, to weave your own ideas into this.
When we say "we don't plan to reveal this mystery" it's not "nyah nyah nyah, we know something you don't know." It's "we don't want to mess up your campaign, so if the mystery interests you, we won't get in the way of your doing what you want with it."
It's kind of the opposite of me wanting to feel like an insider.
OK, I definitely feel bad about naming your subordinate earlier -- out of ignorance. But please consider my posts directed to you, Mr. Mona. With the apology for language choices.
If your decision to keep your personal "working theory" isn't happy-making for some of your fans, why do it? Why not let us know in a blog -- nothing "official" -- what your personal theory is? If we as GMs want to tell a different story, you're still freeing us to do so. End of mystery in the sense of withholding information, on-going mystery in the sense of what we make of it.
Why not?
Because maybe there's a larger portion of fans that are happy with not knowing?
OK. That would work as an answer for Paizo.
But I'd like to understand you. What would diminish your interest in Golarion if the publisher told you his personal "working theory"?
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I'm surprised no one has brought up Echo Of Lost Divinity yet.
Too obvious?
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Hmm, I'm kinda seems like that some peoples, including mine, frustration or confusion about Aroden mystery really stems from that we assume its supposed to be more important to Pathfinder than it actually is ._.; (I have to say, Aroden dedicated to guy in anniversary number of AP did also increase that feel for me, though in retrospect, if he was that important to the setting they would have done his article way earlier than 100th issue) Seems like its instead supposed to just be important historical event that is little bit of mystery, but no one can really solve it or do anything about it.
I guess if it had happened decades earlier, it wouldn't feel such a big thing from reading about Inner Sea campaign guide. Its kinda confusing how most of core races pcs were alive while Aroden was alive, but you can barely see him anymore outside of things that indirectly/directly were born because of his death.
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... it actually doesn't. And over a century ago isn't a recent event. They talk about him some, but they talk more about the Age of Lost Omens, the age the game takes place in.
The APs tell certain stories set in Golarion, and while some are possible because of Aroden's death, none of them "roll on the tracks" so to speak.
But it actually does. The name Aroden figures 129 times in the Inner Sea World Guide, excluding maps. He's everywhere in that book. No other figure comes close, poor Desna clocks in on a measly 49.
They roll on the tracks of the setting. Aroden is a big part of the setting, but does not figure almost at all in the APs. Maybe because JJ said in this thread that they are not interested in telling stories about the death of Aroden. Some people, like me, think that's a missed opportunity.
Except he's not.
The fact that he's dead is the setup for the setting, but that's it.
Out of those 129 how many of them were a part of "Aroden's death"?
15%. Not bad for a dead dude, is it?
Rysky, could I please bother you for a "I agree" or "I disagree" to my statement "Aroden figures a lot in the Inner Sea World Guide, but almost not at all in the APs"? Of course no obligation to comply whatsoever, and I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you!
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... it actually doesn't. And over a century ago isn't a recent event. They talk about him some, but they talk more about the Age of Lost Omens, the age the game takes place in.
The APs tell certain stories set in Golarion, and while some are possible because of Aroden's death, none of them "roll on the tracks" so to speak.
But it actually does. The name Aroden figures 129 times in the Inner Sea World Guide, excluding maps. He's everywhere in that book. No other figure comes close, poor Desna clocks in on a measly 49.
They roll on the tracks of the setting. Aroden is a big part of the setting, but does not figure almost at all in the APs. Maybe because JJ said in this thread that they are not interested in telling stories about the death of Aroden. Some people, like me, think that's a missed opportunity.
Except he's not.
The fact that he's dead is the setup for the setting, but that's it.
Out of those 129 how many of them were a part of "Aroden's death"?
15%. Not bad for a dead dude, is it?
Rysky, could I please bother you for a "I agree" or "I disagree" to my statement "Aroden figures a lot in the Inner Sea World Guide, but almost not at all in the APs"? Of course no obligation to comply whatsoever, and I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you!
I disagree. He's mentioned a few times (few in relation to the wordcount in that book) but again, he's not the core of the game or the Inner Sea region. His death was a historical event that shaped the world we play in, just like every other historical event that shaped the world we play in.
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I disagree. He's mentioned a few times (few in relation to the wordcount in that book) but again, he's not the core of the game or the Inner Sea region. His death was a historical event that shaped the world we play in, just like every other historical event that shaped the world we play in.
OK thanks. Let's leave it there, I don't think we will see eye to eye on this, and we're using up all the bytes, WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK ABOUT THE BYTES
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Well...
1) We have fought the Whispering Way, and the Whispering Tyrant was one of Aroden's iconic enemies.
2) We have fought against Deskari, and he was once defeated by Aroden, being a threat that was capable of making the human god intervene with mortal affairs again.
3) We fought against/with/in Cheliax as well, thrice, and the god of humanity was the patron god of this nation, until his death.
So, we could say that we had five APs about things related to Aroden. =P
And there's one more to come.
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IMO that's another bad habit you guys have, putting relevant setting info exclusively in APs.
If I remember correctly, that was the planned way to convey Setting info from the start. That changed a bit with the campaign Setting line, but it was mentioned that they wanted to take a page out of the old D&D adventures, when this still was the way to go (aka before TSR started Publishing a lot of Setting splat books.
Kinda what they now try to do with the Starfinder line, and something that I'm actually very fine with. As much as I'm a Setting guy, the stuff I use is mainly the stuff that is presented in the APs and which most of the time is relevant to the AP in question (even the Pathfinder Journal stuff). Just my personal taste , though, and I can see why other People might disagree with me here.
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There's actually a good chunk of races who might have been alive back when ole Arry was. Dwarves cap at 250 years about as do Aasimars/Tieflings/elemental races/Dhampirs
There might also be a few wizened gnomes who remember that time as well (200ish max).
Aasimar/tieflings/elemental races/dhampirs follow human age chart nowadays though.
But yeah, dwarves and elves have quite good chance of having lived back then. Maybe if Aroden's death was so old that only venerable elves were alive back then it'd be easier to distance from it without being weirded out .-.
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IMO that's another bad habit you guys have, putting relevant setting info exclusively in APs.If I remember correctly, that was the planned way to convey Setting info from the start. That changed a bit with the campaign Setting line, but it was mentioned that they wanted to take a page out of the old D&D adventures, when this still was the way to go (aka before TSR started Publishing a lot of Setting splat books.
Kinda what they now try to do with the Starfinder line, and something that I'm actually very fine with. As much as I'm a Setting guy, the stuff I use is mainly the stuff that is presented in the APs and which most of the time is relevant to the AP in question (even the Pathfinder Journal stuff). Just my personal taste , though, and I can see why other People might disagree with me here.
It would be nice if they collected the articles from the back periodically and published them separately.
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The AP books are worth the money, even if you never use the adventure part.
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It would be nice if they collected the articles from the back periodically and published them separately.
They don't.
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IMO that's another bad habit you guys have, putting relevant setting info exclusively in APs.If I remember correctly, that was the planned way to convey Setting info from the start. That changed a bit with the campaign Setting line, but it was mentioned that they wanted to take a page out of the old D&D adventures, when this still was the way to go (aka before TSR started Publishing a lot of Setting splat books.
Kinda what they now try to do with the Starfinder line, and something that I'm actually very fine with. As much as I'm a Setting guy, the stuff I use is mainly the stuff that is presented in the APs and which most of the time is relevant to the AP in question (even the Pathfinder Journal stuff). Just my personal taste , though, and I can see why other People might disagree with me here.
It would be nice if they collected the articles from the back periodically and published them separately.
well... Inner Sea Gods has a lot of similar material to the backpages concerning the primary gods.
I'm surprised no one has brought up Echo Of Lost Divinity yet.
Too obvious?
That clue still doesn't explain how he got murdered, just where he possibly is now.
But, it's a clue.
There are other clues elsewhere as well. :-)
But, it's a clue.
There are other clues elsewhere as well. :-)
What are the others?
They're around, I'm not your tour guide to the life and times of Aroden.
I know the A Song In Silver article has another.
I haven't kept up with the campaign setting line the last couple of years, so maybe more there.
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So Paizo having a [semi-]official explanation for Aroden's death is necessary to keep some consistency for any product that does officially expand on the setting canon (again, mainly Campaign Settings).
I'm not actually sure that's true. The how is only really important if you want to build something off of that how. Otherwise it really has no effect on anything at all. Whether he was murdered, fell down a well, or his ascension was only temporary and he imploded under the weight of his own divinity isn't all that important.
it's not that I want plushies
Is this a thing? Can we get Aroden plushies?
They're around, I'm not your tour guide to the life and times of Aroden.
You're literally everything else, why not captain yesterday, golarion tour guide?
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I can't afford to keep up with everything about Golarion.
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They're around, I'm not your tour guide to the life and times of Aroden.
You could be though. I'd praise your knowledge and call you my most honorable (and handsome) senpai if you want.
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I'm a little surprised there isn't a thread somewhere combining all the details and hints and clues about this... and other mysteries.
Developer
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15%. Not bad for a dead dude, is it?........
Out of those 129 how many of them were a part of "Aroden's death"?
Snipping this bit of the above exchange to drop a little anecdote.
When I was plotting out the Ruins of Azlant Adventure Path, I did a search of all our PDFs for the word "Azlant" to find every time we've mentioned it in print. A very significant portion of those results were phrases along the lines of "when Azlant sunk into the sea," or "Aroden, the Last Azlanti," or other such establishing phrases that often denote where in history the author is talking about or are presenting a title.
Just thought I'd share since y'all had some numbers out there and it made me think of it. :)
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LOL, you just described my Kings of Absalom campaign. The first installment alone covers literally everything in your list.
Maybe we should just publish _that_. :/
Just to add my voice to the chorus: Yes, please. As a customer that interacts with the setting exclusively through APs, I would LOVE to both finally have a game in the world's largest city and investigate Aroden's death. As a history major that appeals a lot to me.
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Ya'know you want to do a Noir pulpy investigative adventure, Mona.Exploring Absolom, the Starstone cathedral, tracing Aroden's steps as a mortal, hunting for old clerics holding clues, entering decrepit temples of the fallen god... the death of Aroden could become a really cool part of the setting instead of just a backdrop, and I think it would absolutely be worth telling stories about.
LOL, you just described my Kings of Absalom campaign. The first installment alone covers literally everything in your list.
Maybe we should just publish _that_. :/
In this thread: Erik Mona promises to publish his Kings of Absalom Campaign.
Spread the word.
For a minute I misread the above as "Noir puppy investigative adventure" . . . .
{. . .}
We have a working theory, a general concept that we keep in mind so that nothing we say in print specifically contradicts that version of events, but that's an internal thing to keep ourselves consistent. It's not public because it's not the actual answer, at least until we publish it. And we don't plan to publish it because we aren't as concerned with the _how_ as we are with the _so what now_ aspect of what becomes of culture when the most popular god dies.
{. . .}
And what better in-world place for this concept to pop up than as the painstakingly assembled writings and/or lectures of an important scholarly NPC, preferably in the Kings of Absalom AP?
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Ya'know you want to do a Noir pulpy investigative adventure, Mona.For a minute I misread the above as "Noir puppy investigative adventure".
Gruff the Crime Pup in: The Malty Fountain
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It's kind of the opposite of me wanting to feel like an insider.Yeah - that's what I said (or meant to say, anyway). :p
I was responding to someone else's impression.
Yes Steve is not to blame. It was me (and a couple of others *points over shoulder but noone's there*) but in my defense I have since then recanted that 'tis was a silly notion - partly due to Steve here.
I will stress this again; I do not think an Aroden story/adventure/AP would necessarily need to spill the beans. It's just that it is a significant event in-world, should in my humble opinion affect it profoundly, and from there many cool things could emerge. Like Kings of Absolom :P
I was one of those "couple of others", I believe. I was absolutely not on my best behavior here and I have certainly overreacted. Mea culpa. I can only offer my sincere apologies to those I offended with my unnecessarily harsh words.
Now, If it's indeed the case the case that Aroden's death is intended as a blank for each GM to fulfill as needed, then I'm perfectly okay with that. My problem would be if an answer was settled on and not shared.
On this respect, allow me to say that maybe giving some contradictory information and releasing confusing statements would be, actually, a good idea. Internal coherence implies that the answer is settled on and canonically relevant.
I don't see how knowing the "canon" answer to what happened to Aroden robs me, or anyone else, as a GM of the ability to create their own answer. Golarion has a lot of features to its world-building that I dislike and I've always just ignored them or worked my way around them without compliant. If Paizo's answer to Aroden's death was unsatisfying in my opinion or didn't fit for my games, I could always just do what I've always done. Of course, the opposite could happen and the answer could be so interesting that it inspires me. I Just wish I had the opportunity to know the answer and make that choice for myself.
Well, it certainly doesn't rob anyone from their capacity to creating their own answers. I have developed something along the lines of "Aroden was Golarion's Leto II Atreides" myself.
The thing is, I'm sure the Paizo staff's answer would be way better than mine, because they have access to a greater amount of information and design insight to go from, including connections we don't even suspect exist. Again, let me point you towards the answer about the Starstone, made of deep space stuff, aboleth magic, pieces of a moon goddess and "Golarion scar tissue". Who could have guessed that?
Now, you see, until Mr Mona disabused me of the notion, I was under the impression that such an definitive answer existed. That there was a deep, subtle, intricate and completely over-the-top awesome Theory of Everything that explained how the same thread that caused the ascendancy of House Thrune also broke down prophecy, and Paizo wasn't telling us for arbitrary reasons.
I was under the impression that there was something as exciting as "A moon goddess shielded the planet from a doomsday weapon with her own body" out there, and that this something would also explain what the f* was "Apexis" and what's the Aboleth endgame... And we could never see that something.
"But where do you take that from?", you ask me "That there was a theory of everything?". And I answer, we have been told, time and time again, that the world was "shaped" by the death of Aroden. That the Eye of Abendego, the Worldwound, infernal Cheliax and all of that are the direct result of Aroden's fall...
And sure, maybe something like Thrune Ascendancy can be linked to Aroden's death by a "link" as simple as "Cheliax lost it main god creating a vacuum that was eventually filled by Asmodean propaganda". Maybe the Worldwound is as simple as "Deskari' enemy wasn't there anymore, so he did what he pleased".
But that is not what I gleaned from the books and the way Paizo staff talked. Maybe it's my problem as an interpreter and they never intended such a meaning, but what I understood was: "There's a hidden story that explains that the Thrune Ascendancy was not simply an after-effect of Aroden's death, but a direct consequence of it".
As an example, in my "headcanon", by making himself the very embodiment of prophecy and then allowing himself to pass away, Aroden greatly bolstered the concept of "free will" and "self determination", and as such dealt a heavy, intentional blow to the powers of Hell, who responded by taking over and ruining the nation that embodied his ideal. A kind of post-mortem petty revenge, if you will.
See what I mean? Aroden's death is not "something that happened". It's THE event. It's the shot heard round the world. The assassination of the Archduke. the very big bang to current Golarion.
In such circumstances, kowing the hows and whys of his death would made the setting richer, and allow us to understand more of it's current configuration.
But then came Erik Mona explained that they also "don't know", and only have a "working theory"... So maybe my belief that there is a Theory of Everything is just wishful thinking, and reading too much into things, and seeing something that wasn't there... But I hope I could made clear the reasons for mine and others' frustrations. It doesn't arise from the fact that we are somehow unable to deviate from written material, but from the fact that a "layer" of said material was being kept under wraps forever.
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It's all good Patrick, it happens to us all. :-)
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Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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If your decision to keep your personal "working theory" isn't happy-making for some of your fans, why do it? Why not let us know in a blog -- nothing "official" -- what your personal theory is? If we as GMs want to tell a different story, you're still freeing us to do so. End of mystery in the sense of withholding information, on-going mystery in the sense of what we make of it.Why not?
Because I don't have a personal theory.
I do not know how Aroden died, or why, or who did it, or in which room it happened. I don't find those things to be the interesting parts about him. In fact, it's kind of the one aspect of the character that I don't find particularly interesting.
The interesting thing to me is more in the "what now" aspect of what happens to the campaign world when "God" dies. What happens to institutions, to culture, etc. Add to that the idea that this also casts prophecy in doubt, and you've got a bunch of inherent questions that are more interesting to me than "who did it."
I never really considered "who did it" when I created Aroden. I left that to be determined later, to be woven into other stories by other authors, very likely stories that hadn't been considered yet, left for future development if we decided to develop it at all.
The "working theory" is more something James and others have pieced together in the time since Aroden's creation, tying in the few clues that I left with other cool stuff that they're planning to have a "maybe this is how it went down," but as I mentioned earlier, even that's flexible until we actually decide to address the issue. If we do.
I could outline an entire Aroden-focused Adventure Path with all kinds of insight into his life, his cult, and the ruins of his influence, but to be perfectly honest I'm not certain even that would answer the question of how he died.
I like that the people of Golarion don't know. So long as there's no "official" answer, the answer is free to be whatever you want it to be.