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So Ill repeat the goal again. Create a multiclass character that can gain as many benefits as possible in the few levels that can be played in a Pathfinder Society campaign.
There's always this guy.
I don't understand.
You're saying it's understood and that you understand that making a PFS character that just tries to grab as many features as possible makes a meh character that isn't necessarily better, that you should think of a theme or like ONE thing a character does and build that character towards that goal,
And then the very next line you say your goal is to make a PFS character that just tries to grab as many features as possible?
?????
really, there's not really a disconnect between PFS and "pathfinder RPG". Especially not as large as what it seems you think there is.
So how about this. Instead of using something generic like, "as many benefits as possible" you explain what type of character you want to be.
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So Ill repeat the goal again. Create a multiclass character that can gain as many benefits as possible in the few levels that can be played in a Pathfinder Society campaign.
Except when i started that process, trying to maximize the AC feature, you complained about durability, which is genreally going to be a problem if you want to pick up a largest number of features.
You claimed you wanted to create a wildly multi-classed character because it was more advantageous for PFS. But now you claim you don't care how effective the character is, you just want the maximum number of benefits?
Multi-classing can be beneficial, and that benefit does increase in an environment where capstones are not a concern. But it requires careful consideration, and generally needs a guiding goal. Just picking up as many 'benefits' as possible drags many of those benefits down. It is generally more effective to limit your multi-classing and focus on a few class features that combine well.
Yes some wildly multi-classed builds come out ahead, with some amazing synergies. A bunch of them are noted over in this thread, a thread which had been running for a week when you posted your confusing question with a thread topic that you claim had nothing to do with your actual goals.
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There's a character in our local PFS games that has 0 BAB at level 6. I don't have the statblock by memory, but he started with a 20 CHA, and essentially pumped the DCs of Enchantment spells via every possible method.
Mesmerist to give Will Save penalties, (Dual Cursed) Oracle to force rerolls, (Serpentine) Sorcerer to affect animals with enchantments, a level of Bard to inspire allies, etc. It's been plenty effective.
His goal is to eventually take enough Prestige Classes that he'd hit level 12 with 0 BAB.
Except when i started that process, trying to maximize the AC feature, you complained about durability, which is genreally going to be a problem if you want to pick up a largest number of features.
You claimed you wanted to create a wildly multi-classed character because it was more advantageous for PFS. But now you claim you don't care how effective the character is, you just want the maximum number of benefits?
Youre confused enough for the both of us.
Well on my Wishlist I have a Druid that doesnt have equipment restrictions, a Cleric with all proficiencies, and a Wizard with Proficiencies and no problem using armor and spells simultaneously.
So basically a Hunter, Warpriest, and Magus but with tier 9 spell potential.
So since that isnt possible at least i can try to make a high power character since goals like Chain Lightning or Harm are unreachable.
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Now trying something actual possible within the game I would try to make a Zen Archer/Hunter to have
1 Armor
2 multiple attacks at range
3 animal minion
4 self-healing
add Gunslinger later for
5 touch AC attacks
Its not a perfect combination by any means
how about instead of a long list of random abilities you come up with a character idea or 1 cool think you want to do?
cause it seems you're not interesting in making a character but being a grab-bag of abilities.
Not to mention he keeps bringing up the desire to play a character with every ability and no drawback that he supposedly thinks is a different thread.
That is clearly bait from a troll.
If you cant see the difference between GAME BREAKING SUPERHUMAN and Average Joe with a little tweaking, thats your problem.
One is an Invincible Spellcaster that can kill Gods. The other is a person who can use a Gun, heal him/herself, and has a dog, like every solo RPG character ever, especially if youve ever played a Fallout game..
People keep bring in up when its about the polar opposite. I bring it up as a contrast.
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Not to mention he keeps bringing up the desire to play a character with every ability and no drawback that he supposedly thinks is a different thread.That is clearly bait from a troll.
If you cant see the difference between GAME BREAKING SUPERHUMAN and Average Joe with a little tweaking, thats your problem.
One is an Invincible Spellcaster that can kill Gods. The other is a person who can use a Gun, heal him/herself, and has a dog, like every solo RPG character ever, especially if youve ever played a Fallout game..
People keep bring in up when its about the polar opposite. I bring it up as a contrast.
Well, there's part of the issue I think. This isn't a solo RPG. It's a team-based RPG*. Team-based is pretty much baked into the system. And in team-based RPGs your team members have their own strengths and weaknesses, and cover and support each other.
*NOTE: Pathfinder could be played solo, but the game is built with the presumption that you're part of a team.
It's a racial trait that switches out Multitalented. Do you mean for heavy multiclass builds?Keep in mind that since you're getting this trait because you don't have an appropriate casting class, it would mean effectively giving up all favored class bonuses forever.Advanced Race Guide, Arcane Training. Sadly only arcane stuff but it could be Bard or Witch for CLW's.Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.Where's that trait? what's it called?
No I mean for your single class build. Lets say your single class is Fighter. and you decide to pick up this trait and make your favored class magus or wizard... a class that you will never take levels in.
Since you're not taking levels in your single favored class, you won't get any favored class bonuses in the class you ARE taking. I consider that a fairly hefty price just to be able to pop a wand of shield.
Most of the posts in this thread have no multiclass build advice at all. Instead they are about arguing seemingly for the sake of arguing.
so Ill start over.
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Three general multiclass paths that I can think of:
1 Melee. Mostly about raws stats and equipment. Barbarian is a solid character choice. Just one level allows martial weapons, light+medium armor, and +10 movement. Pretty nice for one level. Rage is Ok. I dont like how it takes so many levels to remove its drawbacks. Fighter is also okay it trades Rage, the movement boost, and 2 skills for a bonus feat.
2 Ranged. Some classes have bonus feats to make this workable. Once money is available a Gunslinger dip would be very useful to have an advanced firearm. a Zen Archer is an excellent "glass cannon" at level 1, but doesnt build so well into other classes and is mostly incompatible with firearms.
3 magic. Hard to multiclass well because each class does not stack at all. Not much point to focus on spell in a multiclass use beyond cantrips or wands. a 1 level dip into a class that gives Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing allows some self-sufficiency.
A barbarian/gunslinger/hunter would be a versatile, but not particularly powerful in any area.
Note: scratch the Gunslinger. PFS rules state that Advanced firearms are unavailable. Sigh, PFS takes out all the fun.
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Given the desiderata you've alluded to, it seems to me that there's an obvious #1 choice for you to take. It's not multi-classed, but let me see if I can convince you that it's the way to go given your desiderata.
You should go straight Druid.
--Reason 1. It seems like what you want is a combination of (a) the most powerful class or class combination (levels 1-12) and (b) the most versatile class or class combination (levels 1-12).
--1(a). The most powerful class in the game (levels 1-12) is the Druid. You got 3/4 BAB, d8 hp, good fort and will saves, and you're a 9th level caster, with a great all-around spell list. That alone puts you on a par with the Cleric, one of the most powerful classes in the game. And then you add to that the incredibly potent Wild shape ability, which turns you into a *beast* in combat, and a powerful animal companion (basically another PC), and you have the most powerful class in the game.
(Maybe in the higher levels some of the other 9th level casters can compete. But we're focusing on levels 1-12.)
--1(b). The most versatile class in the game (levels 1-12) is the Druid. You're a prepared caster, so you can completely swap out spells as needed (and leave slots open to leave you flexible). You have the most versatile spell list in the game, with spells covering healing, blasting, control, etc. And like the Cleric (and unlike arcane prepared casters like the Wizard), they're all accessible to you from day 1. Nothing can match this flexibility.
Then add to that the fact that you can more or less Wild shape at will to adapt to whatever environment you find yourself in (need to fly? need to see in the dark? need to swim and breathe underwater? no problem!), and you have the most versatile class in the game.
--Reason 2. You note that:
on my Wishlist I have a Druid that doesnt have equipment restrictions...
I get not liking equipment restrictions. But if you play a Druid in the most effective way, then none of their equipment restrictions will matter. When you're Wild shaped all the time, what armor you're proficient in is irrelevant, as are your weapon proficiencies. And you can adopt forms with so many powerful natural attacks, that even if you were proficient in metal martial weapons, you would never want to use them. (And even if you were proficient in heavy armor, you should never want to be in the human form you need to take advantage of it.)
--Reason 3. You note that:
#1 Martial weapons are more powerful, have better critical chance, and some special rules such as having multiple damage types to avoid damage reduction or special rules.#2 An animal Companion is effectively another party member in combat. Some possibly choices can have High AC, multiple primary attacks at full BAB, and/or high movement. They can be given some equipment such as light armor as barding to make them tougher.
#3 spells are useful even if DC is too low to realistically lock enemies down with crowd control. In particular allowing use of wands without a high failure Use Magic Device check. A wand of Cure light Wounds is effectively a medi-kit then.
#4 Flurry allows multiple attacks before reaching the point where the Base attack Bonus allows attacks.
Re #1: If you're playing your Druid right (I recommend looking at some the Druid guides here, and especially the sub-guides regarding Wild shaping and polymorphing here and here), you should never want to use martial weapons. The natural attacks you can get while wild shaped will do far more damage than any martial weapon.
Re #2: Check!
Re #3: Check! And you don't even have to settle for low DC spells, or lame low-level spells, or wands even. You're a 9th level caster with high DCs and great blasting, crowd control and healing spells!
Re #4: Again, if you're playing your Druid right (check out the wild shaping guides linked to above!), you can laugh scornfully at people trying to flurry. You can get far more natural attacks going than the poor flurrying monk.
--To sum up: You need to do a lot more prep-work with the Druid than with other classes (researching the different wild shape forms available to you, getting working knowledge of the enormous list of Druid spells available to you). But if you do that research, I think the Druid will give you everything you're asking for.
Hope that helps!
Why play PFS at all then? As a matter of fact why Pathfinder as written? Why not sit and hash out some home brewed Gestalt type characters and run a home campaign?
Or just use the types of class/race/archetype combos that get you the mechanical goodies you want and accept that some of what you might be wishing for just wont be available.
Most of the posts in this thread have no multiclass build advice at all. Instead they are about arguing seemingly for the sake of arguing.
so Ill start over.
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Three general multiclass paths that I can think of:1 Melee. Mostly about raws stats and equipment. Barbarian is a solid character choice. Just one level allows martial weapons, light+medium armor, and +10 movement. Pretty nice for one level. Rage is Ok. I dont like how it takes so many levels to remove its drawbacks. Fighter is also okay it trades Rage, the movement boost, and 2 skills for a bonus feat.
2 Ranged. Some classes have bonus feats to make this workable. Once money is available a Gunslinger dip would be very useful to have an advanced firearm. a Zen Archer is an excellent "glass cannon" at level 1, but doesnt build so well into other classes and is mostly incompatible with firearms.
3 magic. Hard to multiclass well because each class does not stack at all. Not much point to focus on spell in a multiclass use beyond cantrips or wands. a 1 level dip into a class that gives Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing allows some self-sufficiency.
A barbarian/gunslinger/hunter would be a versatile, but not particularly powerful in any area.
Note: scratch the Gunslinger. PFS rules state that Advanced firearms are unavailable. Sigh, PFS takes out all the fun.
A lot of people like Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) / Investigator. The swashbuckler dip is mostly about getting the weapon focus.
Mixing an Alchemist that focuses on mutagens with a Barbarian or Bloodrager works well since the bonus to Strength stacks.
There are all sorts of threads about how great Oracle with Life Mystery works with Paladin. You can get to Lesser Restoration via Oracle 4 / Paladin X faster than you would as a straight paladin. The mixture of Life Link and Lay on Hands make this mix arguably one of the best in-combat healers in the game.
Mixes of Bloodrager / Skald / Paladin (pick two) can also work. Note that the Bloodrager doesn't have an alignment restriction like the Barbarian. These work well together because the attributes align so well. Dip Bloodrager for wand use and increased speed, Skald for the song -- especially with Spell Warrior archetype, Paladin for the saving throws. I will note that some people have problems with the idea of a paladin multi classing but there is nothing in the Pathfinder rules that forbid it.
Unchained Rogue or Investigator mixes fine with any full BAB class.
I wouldn't consider any of the above a character that can do it all.
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Given the desiderata you've alluded to, it seems to me that there's an obvious #1 choice for you to take. It's not multi-classed, but let me see if I can convince you that it's the way to go given your desiderata.
You should go straight Druid.
While I agree with your point for the most part, it is worth noting that many of the benefits you cite only come online at level 4. So levels 1-3 the disadvantages in armor are quite real (though in terms of weapons, you get the scythe, which is martial and solid) and you only have one attack at those levels as well.
One solution (and one of the few multiclass combos on a caster that's worth taking) is a single level of Monk followed by straight Druid. That gives a second attack via flurry and a solid AC buff eventually (and more than enough AC early on if you can swing Mage Armor, which there are several ways to do).
Druid, Cleric, and Wizard problems are that they are weak early on and youre working towards reaching a point where a "silver bullet" spell or class feature to be unlocked.
1 Of the three the Cleric is the most practical. Breastplate+heavy shield+morning star. Simple but also not much to work towards. Ive heard they have some powerful buffing spells...at level 10-20.
2 Druid, In play have to stall until I can get Dragonhide Breastplate. Figure out how to cover up the missing armor save in animal form. Find any spell that is worth the trouble of casting. I think the only decent damage spell a Druid can learn is Flamestrike.
3 Wizard/Sorcerer is the most difficult class. No armor, pathetic weapons, little combat use until Fireball at level 5/6.
Pathfinder Society games have an extended low-level section so having characters that are waiting until several levels to start being useful is tedious. I get more use out of Total Defense than actual attacks.
Now compare that to a character actually designed to murder everything in its path at level 1. And then instead of waiting until several levels to upgrade, gain a new bonus every level.
Can you see how the tedium is getting to me? Ive tried other single classes and similar problems.
Firstly, stop trying to play everything like a beatstick. Because that is what I took away from your post.
Here, lets address this point by point...
Druid, Cleric, and Wizard problems are that they are weak early on and youre working towards reaching a point where a "silver bullet" spell or class feature to be unlocked.
Wizards being weak early on is...I don't think weak is the right word, but there certainly are issues very early on. Druids and clerics? Yeah, no. They can stand and bang in melee just fine, while having a bunch of "silver bullets" and force multipliers in their pocket for special occasions. They can both do this from level 1, with crowd-pleasers such as Entangle and Hide From Undead.
1 Of the three the Cleric is the most practical. Breastplate+heavy shield+morning star. Simple but also not much to work towards. Ive heard they have some powerful buffing spells...at level 10-20.
Divine Favor is 1st level. Bless is 1st level. Magic Weapon is 1st level. Clerics can buff from level 1. Divine Favor is a staple, to the point that some clerics blow a trait on Fate's Favored just to get that extra +1/+1 from this specific spell.
2 Druid, In play have to stall until I can get Dragonhide Breastplate. Figure out how to cover up the missing armor save in animal form. Find any spell that is worth the trouble of casting. I think the only decent damage spell a Druid can learn is Flamestrike.
In human form you have maybe 1 less armor than a fighter in medium armor. That is before you get Dragonhide.
In animal form...buy barding for your primary combat form like every other barely optimized wild-shape combatant?
The druid list is a bit sparce on powerhouse spells, but it has a few really good ones. Snowball. Entangle. Barkskin. Heightened Awareness. Summon Nature's Ally. Resist Energy. Stonecall. Note that I am only looking at 1st and 2nd level spells there. 3rd level has Aqueous Orb, Spike Growth, Greater Magic Fang and Sleetstorm, for crying out loud
...flamestrike is decent?...***headdesk***
Rule of thumb - if you are doing pure blasting more than occasionally then you are either a blaster specialist with a tonne of investment into blasting or something is seriously wrong.
3 Wizard/Sorcerer is the most difficult class. No armor, pathetic weapons, little combat use until Fireball at level 5/6.
Wizards (and to a lesser extent sorcerers) have staying power issues very early on. That much is true. However, I find it bizarre that you would think a single encounter ending Color Spray or an Enlarge Person tossed on the party beatstick counts as "little combat use". The no armor issue also goes away later on, with things like mirror image or fly shutting down the majority of foes (and those are often redundant with good positioning and battlefield control placement). Weapons aren't a huge issue at 1st level, when a single crappy crossbow bolt can kill level appropriate foes. By third a crossbow is useless, but you can prepare 2-3 glitterdusts by then so who cares.
And again, if you are blasting then you should be a dedicated blaster. If you aren't loaded up on the blasting options that make blasting great then fireball should be a spell for emergencies or targets of opporunity, not a staple.
Pathfinder Society games have an extended low-level section so having characters that are waiting until several levels to start being useful is tedious. I get more use out of Total Defense than actual attacks.
In all honesty, that sounds like a problem on your end.
Now compare that to a character actually designed to murder everything in its path at level 1. And then instead of waiting until several levels to upgrade, gain a new bonus every level.Can you see how the tedium is getting to me? Ive tried other single classes and similar problems.
Why don't you play a barbarian. Great beatstick from 1-12. A stupidly good rage power every other level. Seems like something that would satisfy you.
I'm not sure entirely how viable it could be but have you considered Eldritch Knight? A level of Swashbuckler can help you go Dex-Based, Inspired Blade nagging you DEX to damage via fencing grace. Plenty of skill points if you go as a wizard. Good stats and basic buffing should suffice for earlier levels. By the time stats start to not matter you've got some pretty good spell power. Magical Knack Trait means that at level 11 (when most PFS stuff ends) your spells are as powerful as an 11th level caster; you're just a single spell level behind.
If you start out with a level of Inspired Blade, go with five levels of Wizard, and top it off with five levels of Eldritch Knight; it should be pretty fun. Keep in mind most adventuring days will have three combats; each typically lasting four rounds. Plus, if you don't want to feel pointless try using some of those extra skill points for Diplomacy so you have something else to do, or picking up some of the Knowledge Stuff.
I think Straight Ranger could meet a lot of your needs too. Go TWF but still have a good DEX so you have options other than bonus feats to grab stuff. While it seems horribly MAD it actually isn't.
The thing is... practically everything works in Pathfinder Society. The adventures are scaled to the appropriate character levels. The game is not aimed at min-maxers, so the only real determinant should be on what you want to play, not to find some secret voodoo strategy to "win" PFS.
Druid, Cleric, and Wizard problems are that they are weak early on and youre working towards reaching a point where a "silver bullet" spell or class feature to be unlocked.
1 Of the three the Cleric is the most practical. Breastplate+heavy shield+morning star. Simple but also not much to work towards. Ive heard they have some powerful buffing spells...at level 10-20.
2 Druid, In play have to stall until I can get Dragonhide Breastplate. Figure out how to cover up the missing armor save in animal form. Find any spell that is worth the trouble of casting. I think the only decent damage spell a Druid can learn is Flamestrike.
3 Wizard/Sorcerer is the most difficult class. No armor, pathetic weapons, little combat use until Fireball at level 5/6.
Pathfinder Society games have an extended low-level section so having characters that are waiting until several levels to start being useful is tedious. I get more use out of Total Defense than actual attacks.
Now compare that to a character actually designed to murder everything in its path at level 1. And then instead of waiting until several levels to upgrade, gain a new bonus every level.
Can you see how the tedium is getting to me? Ive tried other single classes and similar problems.
I pretty much agree with everything Snowblind said. But let me try to highlight a few points. In particular, while I can kinda see where you're coming from with respects to low level Wizards/Sorcerers, I really think you should re-evaluate your assessment of low-level Druids.
Take 1st level. The kind of Druid build I've been suggesting above (given your desiderata) is a melee-oriented build. You'll start with an 18 strength and a two-handed weapon, and you'll be almost as a good as a 1st level fighter in melee. And you have a wide selection of 1st spells to choose from, some of them which are very good (Entangle!). And you have an animal companion, who at first level is almost as good as a 1st level fighter (and is better than a 1st level fighter in some respects). To say nothing of the action economy advantage having an animal companion gives you. The 1st level Druid is a beast.
compare that to a character actually designed to murder everything in its path at level 1.
Again, the melee Druid and their animal companion are designed to murder everything in their path at level 1. They're at least as good, in this respect, as any other first level character.
Druid, Cleric, and Wizard problems are that they are weak early on ...
If you think this, I highly recommend you read through some of the Druid guides I linked to in the previous post. Druid's aren't weak early on. They're extremely good, starting from level 1.
If you haven't tried one before, I recommend reading those guides and giving the Druid a shot. Given the desiderata you've suggested, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Mounted Fury is a Barbarian Archetype that gives an animal companion. Maybe if you did a human or Half-Orc with high INT to pump the skills you could get UMD and some other cool stuff. That would definitely be a unique spin on the barbarian.
Edit: Mounted Fury does count AC level as level -4, but if you're a Half Orc there's the feat Beast Rider which can lessen that to -2, and get you a triceratops or something.
I've played wizards level 1 and 2 both blaster and controller. They're as weak as the player of them makes them. Yes they have a little less HP and basically the same AC as most character at lv1, but you're not supposed to run in first and be counter hit. You have plenty of fight ending spells from lv1, and cantrips for lv1 and 2 are great. Daze? yeah, enemy skips their turn for my turn is what a controller does. Cause you know what? when it's 1 enemy to 4 players having the 1 skip a turn is a free turn for my 3 allies.
It seems like you're only caring about HP damage and melee survivability, which is 1 role of a party, and you can't see the other roles as worth existing.
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I've got a Cleric/Monk of Magdh that flurries with a scythe. I took magical knack as a trait for increased caster level. Took one level of crusader cleric with knowledge domain. I have every knowledge skill, I flurry with a scythe, and I can get an animal companion if I wanted to spend the two feats for it.I cast spells from scrolls (needing caster level checks for anything greater than a 2nd level spell). It works great. I love it. One of the most fun characters I've ever played.
It seems like you're only caring about HP damage and melee survivability, which is 1 role of a party, and you can't see the other roles as worth existing.
What roles? You mean the win-the-scenario-by-killing-everything-because-thats-the-objective-role? Sure there are different styles like melee, ranged, spell, but still there to kill everything.
However there is an actual point that was brought in character creation. Yes i could make combat Cleric/Druid. Pick a Half-orc, get strength to 18 and dump the casting stat. That let me to wondering why I am even picking the caster if I am not casting highly effective spells? And then, wait where are the highly effective spells?
Opinion on what the words "'effective" and "highly" mean.
roles of combat, controller and support. There are three roles, controller, support and and damage. You seem to know of only one role, damage. Some classes are better at the damage role than other classes, so if you compare all classes to how well they fill the damage role of course some would seem bad. But if you feel that a caster is only useful when it has wish and that everything before that is a sucky wait till wish then you have a very wrong idea of casters and what they do.
There is no winning PFS is why you'll get tons of different answers.Though if you made a thread with that I'll bet you the top three answers would be
1) you don't "win" PFS. Maybe you can but that's not the point of the game.
2) What do you mean by "win" PFS?
3) Lots of non-damage role suggestions.
I am probably going to slip on this but Im going to respond to offtopic comments through private messaging.
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Avenger Vigilante/Skald/Hunter. Can fight with martial weapons, wear medium armor, cast some spells, heal with wands, and has an Animal Companion.
Zen Archer/Wizard. strong but low durability. spells offer some options and even Mage Armor for free is a big boon. Infernal Healing wand would be useful. Maybe later have Arcane Archer Prestige multiclass.
It seems like you're only caring about HP damage and melee survivability, which is 1 role of a party, and you can't see the other roles as worth existing.What roles? You mean the win-the-scenario-by-killing-everything-because-thats-the-objective-role? Sure there are different styles like melee, ranged, spell, but still there to kill everything.
However there is an actual point that was brought in character creation. Yes i could make combat Cleric/Druid. Pick a Half-orc, get strength to 18 and dump the casting stat. That let me to wondering why I am even picking the caster if I am not casting highly effective spells? And then, wait where are the highly effective spells?
Opinion on what the words "'effective" and "highly" mean.
Happily, you don't need to dump your casting stat to get this to work out. For example, here's how I would stat a 20 pt buy melee combat Druid:
Human (w Dual Talent)
Str 16+2=18
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 16+2=18
Cha 7
(You could also dump int to further boost dex and con if you like. Could also drop wis to 17, boost it at lvl 4, and further boost dex and/or con.)
As far as effective spells: Again, check out the guides linked to above. They go over this in nauseating detail.
roles of combat, controller and support. There are three roles, controller, support and and damage.
You may want to read Forge of Combat for a pretty good model of the different roles. Class alone does not determine which role(s) you can provide -- a warrior with a whip focusing on tripping is closer to battlefield control than damage dealer.
There are other models and other nomenclature that people have used. I just find the above one of the better written guides explaining these concepts.
roles of combat, controller and support. There are three roles, controller, support and and damage. You seem to know of only one role, damage. Some classes are better at the damage role than other classes, so if you compare all classes to how well they fill the damage role of course some would seem bad. But if you feel that a caster is only useful when it has wish and that everything before that is a sucky wait till wish then you have a very wrong idea of casters and what they do.
There is no winning PFS is why you'll get tons of different answers.Though if you made a thread with that I'll bet you the top three answers would be
1) you don't "win" PFS. Maybe you can but that's not the point of the game.
2) What do you mean by "win" PFS?
3) Lots of non-damage role suggestions.
"1) you don't "win" PFS. Maybe you can but that's not the point of the game.
2) What do you mean by "win" PFS?
3) Lots of non-damage role suggestions."
Okay I think youre trolling as you are acting like you dont know what the point of completing a scenario or module is.
Heres a question for you, are any "roles" more dangerous or pactical than a greatsword with 18 strength? That is effective at level 1. A Sleep spell can be awesome if its 100% effective.
Ive made ranged characters but are drastically weaker and only reach a point of parity when they learn the feats Precise shot, Improved Precise Shot, and Point Blank Master. Those take either a long period or cannot be reached at all by some classes. Zen Archer takes until level 6. ranger/Slayer/Fighter/Vigilante wait until level 11.
As for spells unless those are "nukes" that compensated for limited uses with high killing power, like say Disintegrate or Fireball, then they are impractical. I have a hard time believing the gambling is worth it. That isnt to say all spells are useless. theyre often too situational. Entagled is a powerful crowd control spell a Druid can start with. Sleep can be really effective, that is it it actually works. There are alot of spells like Color Spray that could be effective if you can manage to safely use them. Haste of an excellent party buff.
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Youve followed enough of my threads that every scenario Ive played has unavoidable combat. So combat performance is the number one priority. Skills are something not be neglected which is why I dont like the Fighter class. Spells are impractical at best and trying to be a "blaster" is about having expensive wands to attack with for low damage.
So its trying to make a high performance character at level 1 which will eventually become a top tier character. If the pathfinder Society campaign didnt have punishing Retraining rules I could pick certain classes and retrain them later with little problem besides a little gold.
So speaking of multiclassing I think of a Fighter/Bard/Druid type of character that can Fight, do skills, and have powerful combat class features like an animal companion. If anything I would just pick an Avenger Vigilante at 1, Skald at 2, and Hunter at 3 and get Boon companion feat at level 5.
Look, if all you care about is how well a class fills a damage role build yourself a damage guy and go and have fun with it and stop complaining that all classes aren't the best at the damage role.
You feel a spell having a %60+ chance of just dropping 1 guy and a decent chance of dropping 2 guys with one standard action isn't worth it.
SO seriously. Stop complaining about not having everything in one build and go build some nice damage dealer and go "win PFS" with it. Since that seems to be what you think you need to do if you want to play PFS.
your view of PFS = Y and most peoples view and experience of PFS = M
Y..................................................................M
See, it's quite far apart from each other. Which is why you get lots of posts that are "off topic" and stuff.
And you still never come up with a character idea. Your only idea so far is "have grab-bag of all the best features" which isn't really a character or something to build.
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What roles? You mean the win-the-scenario-by-killing-everything-because-thats-the-objective-role? Sure there are different styles like melee, ranged, spell, but still there to kill everything.
This is the attitude that makes me sad when it shows up at my table.
I've had plenty of games where the party avoided killing the antagonists, and indeed killing them wasn't the objective the party was given.
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To add to the comment above avoiding fights is winning future fights. If you bypass three fights you come into the last with all your consumables, all your spells, and all other limited resource features.
As someone who plays a lot of 6th level casters skipping even one fight makes a world of difference in how much I can throw at the last fight.
What roles? You mean the win-the-scenario-by-killing-everything-because-thats-the-objective-role? Sure there are different styles like melee, ranged, spell, but still there to kill everything.
I don't know what Scenarios you've been playing, or who's been Judging you, but most of PFS, especially in the scenarios of the last couple of seasons aren't going to be "won" by a simple strategy of mowing down everything that's moving.
I wager that an investigator can keep up in DPR and survivablility with a top martial. While still doing it's job as the smart guy of course.
A GHOULISH PROSPECT! BUT WELCOME NEVER THE LESS!
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If you want really Powerful Multiclass Builds. There are Several Options.
Number 1 Rule is that Full-Caster (and Alchemist) should be left untouched.
Combinations:
THW Melee Druid with 1 Level Brawler Dip (around LvL 5) for 4/Day (Teamwork-)Feat for you and your AnC .13 Int Cheat to get Combat Expertise for Pack-Flanking. Impr. Unarmed Strike.
Gunslinger 5 and Rest Inquisitor (with "FACE" Inquisition).
Gunslinger for Base Damage Set-Up and the Inq to reach BANE and Spells.
Both Classes Profit from Wisdom and you have high initiative(Dex+Wis) and hit on Touch. In the First Round it often Means you hit around 10 AC.
In Addition you can Serve as the Face of the Team cause you get Wis instead of Cha on Diplo etc. which means you can Dumb CHA.
Zen Archer Monk 6 and rest Inquisitor (See Above).
At Level 11 and Gravity Bow Holy Weapon you have Ridicules Damage against Evil Enemies: +22/+22/22(H)/22(KI)/+17/+17 for 2d6+2d6+2d6+14 Damage. With Clustered Shots this Means 210 Average Damage before DR when you hit all.
More to come I have to work now.
I was scouring the boards for scizore rules. This one came up, and as it was already NECROed, I don't feel so bad. Does anyone know in PFS rules, do you have to be proficient with a scizore to get the AC bonus?