I was really confused at first too with the Animal Totem, thinking how in hell do they keep up in damage, but yeah, you're definitely meant to use handwraps like a monk. I believe they still function even when you shift to animal form.
An update on our final hero!
Kai Daro: Human, Pathfinder Hopeful, Monk. Went with Wolf Stance and Stunning Fist to become the true Yamcha. Really liked how stances could completely change up strategy for a monk.
Slight confusion: do the two attacks from Flurry of Blows count as two attacks like normal for Multiple Attack Penalty? So, for example, would a Flurry -> Strike -> Strike be +0, -4, -8, -8?
I'm PhoenixSlayer, and I've been lurking the forums and playing 1e for about 3 years now. Before that was 3.5, so Pathfinder was a natural move. In all that time though I never had a chance to GM. Well that's now changing!
Last night my group made characters for Doomsday Dawn! No full gameplay yet since we were missing a person, but the heroes so far are as follows:
Gregory Smith: Human, Pathfinder Hopeful, Fighter. Picked up a falchion and Furious Focus to turn misses into successes. Liked the first-level options available for Fighter, was weighing between Furious Focus, Power Attack, and Sudden Charge.
(Mr.) Bruce Bradley: Halfling, Esoteric Scion, Storm Druid. Used to sail the high seas, very superstitious. Hasn't chosen spells or equipment yet but liked the Druid Orders. Also the first time I've seen someone play a Halfling in our group. Was a bit confused by Spell Points at first, but caught on quickly.
Deglin Blus: Dwarf (Dorf), Budding Osirionologist, Ranger. Wields an axe and a hatchet. If he can't get frost and returning on his hatchet to channel Kratos from the new God of War, he'll consider this a failure (sarcastic, very likely). Took Double Slice because it's damn good. Gonna hunt them targets. We joked that he's basically Dwarf Indiana Jones.
General Feedback: We joked that this edition is Featfinder, but they really like how everything is a feat now; allows for more flexibility. Three action system makes perfect sense. Bruce loved how the Heal spell is set up now. Only major negative so far is how spontaneous spellcasters need to learn a spell at higher levels for heightening unless they use their limited spontaneous heightening.
Will update with our 4th member and actual gameplay in the near future!
So I'm a bit confused as to how shields actually function. Based on my reading it looks a little like this:
Using Wooden Shield (3 Hardness) ->
Or is it total damage to shield after hardness reduction is 7-3 = 4, which results in 1 dent?
The last bit is where I'm most confused. Not sure if this is fully correct.
So, Warded Touch is as follows:
You cast lay on hands in a simple motion without any complicated gestures. The Somatic Spellcasting action for lay on hands loses the manipulate trait.
Just so I'm sure on this, the Somatic action losing manipulate means that Lay on Hands with Warded Touch can be done with your hands full? Like say if your wielding a sword and shield or a two-handed weapon?
Wait, 100 feats? Getting ability bonuses instead of XP? That amount of gold? At level 7?
I honestly don't know how much we can help given your game is so far outside of normal as to be completely alien from what we usually consider normal play.
Definitely ask your fellow players and even the GM for help.
I'm personally a fan of the "warrior of the corner alignments" idea, AS LONG AS they're differentiated enough so that they're not clones with some words replaced here and there. LG is our classic paladin,so paladin still exists as-is, but it opens the class up to greater flexibility. As for how to differentiate, that I don't know, I ain't no game designer to think that far in.
Our GM has set up an arena in our campaign, and one of my fellow players had the idea that we should have our own battle themes during one-on-battles. Been trying to find a good theme for my paly Rodric, but no standouts yet. Could use suggestions!
Some background on Rodric: he's one of the few survivors of his village after a rival nation invaded and took over his own. He had joined the militia and rose through the ranks quickly to Captain, but he disobeyed direct orders to stand down after a decisive battle. He got knocked out by one of the commanding officers of the invading army, and when he came to his whole village was burning to cinders.
He roamed for a number of years alone, but eventually learned of a mysterious continent that some fellow survivors may have fled to. He joined the current party there (as a tanky reach defensive Fighter). The change to Paladin was relatively recent: a party friend and cleric of Iomedea was killed, and Rodric offered himself to stabilize her soul and continue her mission.
Recently the man who destroyed his village was revealed to be one of the main big bads, and Rodric's been having to deal with a lot of pent up anger. He always tries to do the right thing, but when he's put into situations where split second decisions are required he usually doesn't think things through. He's been increasingly plagued by nightmares of his burning village, but instead of seeing the man responsible, he's begun to see a dark reflection of himself.
So think of a musical theme for a righteous man with an inner darkness that threatens to take control if he's pushed too far. Or something like that. Thanks in advance!
I should clarify that it's still very possible that Rodric lives, I just see this final confrontation with the man who burned his city to ash and killed pretty much everyone he knew as a fitting end to his story. But I very much appreciate the advice so far!
For witch: what patrons do people like?
I'd rather not go sorcerer as I've played one before, and I'm the type of player who wants to try everything.
My group is currently at level 12, and we're getting towards the end of the current arc. My paladin Rodric (Holy Tactician / Warrior of the Holy Light) will likely a) summon up a final holy beat down against the villain who destroyed everything he knew or b) fall to darker temptations and become an antipaladin to destroy said villain. Either way I'm looking at a new character.
Rest of the party is as follows:
Could use advice as to a good class and archetypes for a new pc that fits party needs. I've been leaning towards either a witch or a magus, but I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks in advance!
Here's the current makeup of our 3.5 Eberron campaign:
Changeling Cleric (primarily Death domain, only raises dead when absolutely necessary)
As you can see, we basically have no face (because our Dwarf Bard got sucked into a sphere of annihilation) and we have no arcane caster (our Human Wizard got mind controlled and has turned against the party). Before even that we had a Tengu Monk who punched first and forgot to ask questions after punching. He promptly ran into a Hydra and was ripped to shreds.
We're far from normal.
Based on your past threads, I'd wager that you're starting at 1st or 2nd level. At that point, no, you aren't going to have every trick that the druid is known for. All full casters have a harder time in the earliest levels. I'd still say that druids have it easier because they can have a fluffy/scaly/feathered murderball following them around. Your melee effectiveness in the early level primarily lies in your pet, not in you yourself. It's possible, indeed probable, that said pet will be around the same effectiveness as your party fighter at those low levels. If you personally want to wade in with Fluffy, quite a few people have mentioned low level spells that would help, like Shillelagh and Flame Blade. Don't dismiss your animal because it's not your actual character, it's an important part of being a druid.
So I guess the question becomes if there is a class you'd stick with for months and years. Based on your posts I feel like you're still trying to find one.
Apologies, I used "rogue" as an analog for "skilled", which is what you actually mentioned.
You're frustrated with the system and you're frustrated with us. I think it's really in your best interest that you look for a different game that isn't Pathfinder, because you can't seem to find what you like. And this isn't even me thinking that you want a disintegrate that blows up planets or the likes, this is me seeing you get more and more frustrated and suggesting that you step away from this game and try to find a different one that better fits what you want out of it.
Honestly CT, at this point I think you have to look at a different game system for the sake of your own sanity. It's clear that you're not happy with how Pathfinder is structured. Some have suggested GURPS, might also be good for you to check out the Fantasy Age system, which has the warrior/rogue/mage idea you mentioned earlier in the thread.
The quote actually is relevant CT. Because the cleric build suggested gives the Plains domain. Which gives you Pounce. It's a limited number of times a day, but it's Pounce. If you had reviewed the build like you say you do in said quote, you may have said something along the lines of "it's Pounce, but I don't like that it's limited, I want more" instead of just brushing the guy off.
I was playing a Polearm Master myself for a homebrew game before our cleric player couldn't make games anymore and I had him "reborn" as a Paladin. Reach and Trip is an excellent combo for area control, and I was working towards Felling Smash to make full use of the feats I already had. Fondest memory is standing in front of the doorway of a burning tavern and outright slaughtering mooks trying to escape while the rest of the party saved captives. He earned the nickname "The Redhammer" after that one.
Well, there's part of the issue I think. This isn't a solo RPG. It's a team-based RPG*. Team-based is pretty much baked into the system. And in team-based RPGs your team members have their own strengths and weaknesses, and cover and support each other.
*NOTE: Pathfinder could be played solo, but the game is built with the presumption that you're part of a team.
Y'know, I'm sensing a lot of frustration from people involved in this thread. Let's mellow out a bit, shall we?
Here's my stance: the recent updates have most certainly made the fighter better. Is it a class on par with other martials now? I think it's gotten a hell of a lot closer. However, the issue comes from having these options spread across a number of books, and a number of them aren't under titles considered "core" to the game. I feel like the only thing people want is to have these new choices more consolidated than what they are and placed into a "core"-line book. Not only would such a book be easier to show a DM and say "I'd like to use options from here" in comparison to giving a GM multiple books, it would also drastically lower the system knowledge and materials needed to build a fighter with these new and great options. Similar to what the goal was for Unchained Monk, to drastically lower the skill floor needed to build a good one.
Are you planning to go dex-based or strength-based? Is Agile Weapon an easy thing? Pretty much everything else is going to depend on those things. There's no easy dex-to-damage anymore when using TWF.
I'd prefer to go Dex-based, if only because Stygian Slayers can only use up to light armor, and I'd like at least a respectable armor class to survive early on. Still, I'd plan on having at least 13 Strength (bumped to 14 at level 4) to help with damage. As for Agile, that would depend entirely on the campaign I would play in, no concrete answer right now.
15-point buy might be something like the following (elite array is used here)
If I want dex to damage with two weapon, I'm thinking it might be wise to dip into unchained rogue if available.
I've had a character concept bouncing around in my head for a while since I first saw the stygian slayer archetype, and I was curious if anyone had any advice on fully realizing it. I have a majority of the framework in place, but there are still some pieces that need to be glued together.
Start by assuming a 15-point-buy. I'd be sticking with the base tiefling for the +2 Dex, +2 Int, and -2 Cha, and I'd love to grab Moonlight Stalker fairly early and Silent Kill later on to really deliver on the "killer in the night" vibe. With the focus on using wands for spells, I'd being using the Prehensile Tail trait to make grabbing them more efficient. However, that does leave the question of how to best utilize my hands during combat. I'm leaning towards either Two-Weapon Fighting or Natural Attacks (utilizing the Ranger Combat Style talents appropriately). I'm just having a lot of trouble choosing between the two.
TWF: Pros include lots of attacks later on and the chance to go into feats like two-weapon feint for sneak attack goodness. Cons are mainly related to action economy: if I need to use a wand in battle, I'd need to drop my weapon and pick it up later on, and while a weapon cord would help with that, it's not the most efficient thing. Magic items (like say, a glove of storing) could certainly help, but it might take a bit to build up the necessary funds.
Natural Attack: Pros include lots of attacks by 2nd level (grabbing the Maw or Claw racial trait for bite and the Natural style feat that gives claws by 2nd). Can also boost damage dice through feats in the style. Not as much of an issue if I need to use a wand, since I'll still have two attacks (bite and one claw). Cons would be less chance for feinting due to not being able to use two-weapon feint, but then again sneak attacks are more gravy for a slayer than necessary (like for a rogue). Also, I honestly have no idea what feats to focus on if I go this route.
Chess Pwn wrote:
I admit to not having followed this whole conversation, but I can see where thaX is coming from with this, even if I most assuredly disagree with his notion that if you have EWP (Bastard Sword) that you can no longer two-hand it.
What I believe he's doing, and honestly what I would do, is take all the sentences of the feat as a whole, instead of trying to separate them into distinct parts. By that I mean that the benefits of the feat only apply when wielding an earthbreaker and a klar, and that's honestly something the feat should outright state. I feel like there's a reason the feat is called "Thunder and Fang", not "Sword and Fang" or "Thunder and More Thunder". So while what I'm implying is definitely RAI, I feel like it's an accurate RAI.
Take that for what you will. I'm by no means a rules expert, just a gut feeling on this one.
Goth Guru wrote:
Just look at the example of a goblin wizard. They think writing pulls your soul out, so they just use smell and colors for their spells instead of text. No need to read or write at all.
This isn't a character I'll be building right away, more of a thought experiment.
I really like the idea of a light-based mage, and when I saw the Lightbringer trait for elves, I started trying to think up the best way to make such a character in Pathfinder. For those who don't know, Lightbringer in full:
Many elves revere the sun, moon, and stars, but some are literally infused with the radiant power of the heavens. Elves with this racial trait are immune to light-based blindness and dazzle effects, and are treated as one level higher when determining the effects of any light-based spell or effect they cast (including spell-like and supernatural abilities). Elves with Intelligence scores of 10 or higher may use light at will as a spell-like ability. This racial trait replaces the elven immunities and elven magic racial traits.
The immunity to blindness and dazzling really helps negate the "bright light!" effect of some of the light spells blinding you when you cast them, and the level boost could be useful for, say, light-based damage spells. The free light-at-will could easily replace a level 0 slot.
What I'm left wondering is what class to use for this type of character. Sun domain cleric seems like an obvious choice, but there are certainly other choices that I haven't fully explored. Anyone have suggestions on classes, archetypes, and spells?
Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
No traits on this campaign unfortunately. I could ask about the extra traits feat...
I'll definitely be going for Outflank for my next bonus teamwork feat; couldn't take it at 3rd level due to BAB requirements. The other two melee's are a swashbuckler and a rogue, and they usuallly flank buddy with each other. The swashie also likes to charge a lot due to (I think) a 3rd-party feat he took that gives him a critical threat on a successful Acrobatics check while charging, so I thought Distracting Charge may capitalize on that. Paired Opportunists is another one I'll have to think about.
So, long story short, my GM has let me rebuild my 5th-level Polearm Master Fighter into a Paladin. I decided to go for the Holy Tactician and Warrior of the Holy Light because I still wanted to be a tanky front-liner who didn't use spells, but with a new twist. Stats are as follows, 15-point-buy, human. Still want to stick with polearms and spears.
STR: 15+2 = 17
So far I've gone for Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Extra Lay on Hands, and Improved Initiative. For the bonus Teamwork Feat I went for Distracting Charge.
Was curious if anyone had suggestions for other feats to take. Some of the feats related to Lay on Hands look really good (like Ultimate Mercy), and I was thinking of taking the Cleave tree to make as much use of Weal's Champion (the Smite Evil replacement from Holy Tactician) as possible.
Gwen Smith wrote:
Well, both methods would stop a target from moving, and it appears that they could be used together. Keep in mind though that CMD's can be far higher than normal AC. Depending on the enemy, it could be far easier just hitting Pin Down on it's own.
Seems no one has mentioned the Pin Down feat from Ultimate Combat. While it does require 11 levels of Fighter (or the equivalent) it gives you an AoO on 5-foot steps and withdraws. You don't do damage if you hit, but they are forced to stop moving, thus staying in your threat area.
As for a reverse Step Up, the Polearm Master archetype for Fighter gets an ability called Step Aside in later levels.
I can't say I've been following this thread super-closely, but I kinda feel like Fighters shouldn't be the best at damage. I'd honestly leave that to the Barbarian. What I feel is a better niche for the Fighter is battlefield control through Combat Manuevers. When I think Fighter, I want to see a guy who can take tactical action on the battlefield instead of just hulking out like Mr. Barby. Other classes should certainly have access to manuevers, but Fighters should be the absolute masters of them. Stamina rules might help a bit with that, but it could be more pronounced.
I also feel like it would be wise to bump up his skills to at least 4. It's apparent that the Fighter has a s*!@ skill list, so I'd at least add Acrobatics and some other Knowledge (maybe even a choice to build backstory) and maybe bonuses to Knowledge checks concerning battles and wars. Maybe throw disable device in there, although that's probably encroaching on the sneaky guy niche. I'm not really sure about face skills, I'd rather have the Cavelier be the pretty face martial.
Also, something I just noticed completely unrelated: why does Gunslinger have Heal as a class skill?
If memory serves, Sarenrae gives both the Fire and Sun domains. I haven't played around with them personally, but Fire gives nice blast spells and Sun might work pretty well in an undead-heavy campaign. I believe there's also a short guide on blasty clerics on the Pathfinder Guide to the Guides page by BrokenZenith.