Druid Eagle Shaman and summon spells

[DangerMaus]

Was looking at the Eagle Shaman alternate for the Druid class and I had a question about the animals available for summon natures ally for use with the Totemic Summons ability. From looking at the description of that ability and the summon natures ally create list there are only 3 animals from levels 1-9 that they could use this ability with.
Level 1 - Eagle
Level 4 - Giant Eagle
Level 8 - Roc

Are there some that I missed?

I know you can apply the Young, Giant, and Advanced templates to summon those same animals at different levels.
Level 1 - eagle
Level 2 - Giant or Advanced Eagle
Level 3 - Giant and Advanced Eagle or Young Giant Eagle?
Level 4 - Giant Eagle
Level 5 - Advanced or Giant(can this be done I assume not) Giant Eagle
Level 6 - Advanced and Giant (can the giant template be applied to a giant creature?) Giant Eagle
Level 7 - Youg Roc
Level 8 - Roc
Level 9 - Giant or Advanced Roc

How does making the level 1 eagle giant at level 2 compare to the Giant eagle you can summon at level 4? Can you apply the Giant template to an already Giant Eagle?

-dm

[BenignFacist]

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DangerMaus wrote:

Can you apply the Giant template to an already Giant Eagle?

Yes. The resulting summoned Eagle becomes a Humungus Eagle.

1 round after being summoned a Humungus Eagle dons leathers and a hockey mask, squawks loudly and then gives the following speech:

''There has been too much violence. Too much pain. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.''

*revs engines*

::

You can trust me on this. I am an authority figure.

Spoiler:

O-o Wut?

*shakes fist*

[carborundum]

Not in the same town as my books, so I'll Throw in an alternative instead if answering your question properly.

You could always use the table in the Bestiary for suggested abilities and stats for a given CR to make your own birds. It's a bit of work. But only once every few levels.

[DangerMaus]

So is there an official ruling about applyig the giant template to a giant creature? I understand your logic that it would just become one size category larger still but just wanted to confirm that it is done like that.

Also, you can summon an eagle with a level 1 spell and with level 2 you can apply the giant template to it. How is level 2 eagle with giant template different from the Giant eagle you can summon with level 4 spell?

-dm

[carborundum]

Definitely - the Giant Creature template boosts Str & Con, it doesn't give more HD. The Eagle with giant creature template is a bigger, normal eagle.
It is a Medium animal. It has 2 extra hitpoints, 2 extra AC and its talons go from 1d4 to 1d6+2. If you don't swap out weapon finesse for weapon focus, it ends up with 2 less attack bonus. (size and dex)

The Giant Eagle is a Large magical beast, which understands language, has 4d10 hitpoints, Evasion, much better to hit & damage... it's a quality beast!

Copy/ paste from the PRD...

Eagle (Small Animal)

statblock:

Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10

Defense
AC 14, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 size)
hp 5 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2

Offense
Speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee 2 talons +3 (1d4), bite +3 (1d4)

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB –1; CMD 11

Feats Weapon Finesse
Skills[/b] Fly +8, Perception +10; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception

Eagle with Giant Template (Medium Animal)

statblock:

Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10

Defense
AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 8 (1d8+3)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +2

Offense
Speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee 2 talons +3 (1d6), bite +2 (1d6)

Statistics
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB –1; CMD 11

Feats Weapon Focus (talon)
Skills Fly +7, Perception +10; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception

[b]Giant Eagle (Large magical beast)

statblock:

Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15

Defense
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size)
hp 26 (4d10+4)
Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +3
Defensive Abilities evasion

Offense
Speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee 2 claws +7 (1d8+4), bite +7 (1d6+4)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.

Statistics
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +9; CMD 22

Feats Alertness, Flyby Attack
Skills Fly +8, Perception +15, Sense Motive +4; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception

Were you to make a CR1 Eagle analogue for Summon Monster II, you could either add a Racial HD - or use the "Monster Statistics by CR" table.
15 hitpoints on average? 2HD medium animal it is... and off you go.

[DangerMaus]

Thanks for the info. That was very helpful. When creating a cr1 bird should I use the basic stats for a cr1 creature or is there easy way to modify it for a bird?

[carborundum]

Honestly? Whatever you like!
It's only going to be around for 20 seconds a few times, it isn't an animal companion or anything like that. Look at Eagle, look at CR 1/2, then CR1 and boost it proportionally. Or ask the player to come up with something fair but useful, then give that the once over. Ask him to make something worth summoning but within the limits, and you should be okay.
If you like I can throw something together this evening...

[James Risner]

DangerMaus wrote:

Level 1 - Eagle

Level 4 - Giant Eagle

I'm pretty sure the Giant Template level 1 Eagle isn't the same as the level 4 Giant Eagle.

Isn't the level 4 Giant Eagle a Magical Beast?

In any event, a Giant template Giant Eagle would be a Giant Giant Eagle, since the term Giant in the name of the Giant Eagle isn't a reference to Giant Template.

[Auke Teeninga]

DangerMaus wrote:

Level 1 - Eagle
Level 4 - Giant Eagle
Level 7 - Roc

Are there some that I missed?

I know you can apply the Young, Giant, and Advanced templates to summon those same animals at different levels.
Level 1 - eagle
Level 2 - Giant or Advanced Eagle
Level 3 - Giant and Advanced Eagle or Young Giant Eagle?
Level 4 - Giant Eagle
Level 5 - Advanced or Giant(can this be done I assume not) Giant Eagle
Level 6 - Advanced and Giant (can the giant template be applied to a giant creature?) Giant Eagle or Young Roc
Level 7 - Roc
Level 8 - Giant or Advanced Roc
Level 9 - Giant and Advanced Roc

Small alteration, see bold text