So I am working on a spellcaster, and wanted to see what you all think so far. I am flexible on a number of issues, but I want a primary arcane spellcaster with some divine extra. Being able to hold himself in a fight would be nice to
Base stats
Neutral Good Elf (Arcane Focus), preferred class (Cleric???)
Str 12
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 18
Wil 15
Chr 15
Leveling guide
1: Arcanist-1
2: Cleric (Magic Theologian)-1
3: Cavalier-1
4: Arcanist-2
5: Cleric-2
6: Archanist-3
7: Cleric-3
8: Archanist-4
9: mystic thurg-1
10: Mystic Thurge-2
11-20: 6 levels of Eldrick Knight, 4 levels of Mystic Thurge
Wanted Feats: Combat Castings, War Priest, (2 other concentration bonus edges can't think of names of)
I am debating on a lot still, what type of familiar (and can I shake something loose to get to Archanist 5 so I can speak to it)
The main focus is the Eldrick Knight/Mystic Thurge combo, I like the spellcasting uniqueness of the Archanist. Cavalier was chosen to get the share teamwork edge and Martial weapons. However have considered Warpriest and Oracle instead of cleric & Cavalier to get the extra spellcasting levels.
I am toying with going either staff or Rapier as my main weapon
The group desperately needs a arcane caster for level 1. I went preferred caster just because of option 3 on cleric.
any thoughts are welcome
You're levels are just too split up to be effective as the groups primary caster. You're maxing out at 7th level spells only.
What is Eldritch Knight doing for you here?
Mystic Theurge is generally considered a trap option unless you can convince your GM to allow early entry. Do you really need divine and arcane casting for anything other than flavor?
What are you trying to build here? What would you like your character to do, because this is spread too thin and will not be terribly effective.
I like to play "Swiss Army Knife" type characters (My shadowrun character is a Mage/Face/Decker/Sam). I do not need to be the best in the group as long as my versatility makes me useful.
I added eldrick Knight mainly because of wanting to be a slightly better combatant, to also elevate my arcane casting over my divine
I have some role playing ideas for the character (Magic is quite literally in his blood, chosen by his god, etc...)I am however still working on a lot of details, so am flexible to some extent...
Primary spellcasting classes are already Swiss Army Knives. A cleric can prepare a spell to solve almost any problem, including buffing themselves up for combat.
Indeed. A cleric of Gorum is already a fearsome melee combatant and can run almost entirely on WIS and 13 STR if they invest in Guided Hand.
Thank you for your input so far, I do appreciate it. I realize that I am looking at something less that par, but I do really want to play something that has some levels in divine spellcasting. I don't want to be a handicap to my party. I do have my heart set on a Mystic Thurg/Eldrick Knight combo. I am willing to move around the levels of each, and look at changing the "feeder class" for the martial weapons and the Divine spell casting. At a low end I would like to have at least 10 levels in Divine spellcasting (8+2) and I have been saying 15 for spellcasting. If it matters I am going back and forth on Focused mind or magical knack for my trait
I think you're looking for advice on how to make something good that basically can't be good.
It's very difficult to offer good optimization advice if you're deadset on staying with Eldritch Knight/Mystic Theurge. I'm honestly at a lost of how to make that viable.
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It is strange to me how people chime in how choices are not, "viable."
Without knowing what kind of game or DM he games with, it is difficult to say whether your choices are going to be a boon or hinder yourself and the party.
You have to remember that many RPG gamers on the forum are min/max optimizers (maybe because that is the way they want to play, or because their DM's only do VERY deadly games and if they do not optimize, they die early and often.)
Other gamers on the forum care not about min/max and optimization, because they want to play a concept they have in mind, or they play wherever the story and the game takes them without planning ahead 5, 10, 20 levels (and have a DM that does not penalize them for not being ultimate badasses.)
You are asking for very subjective answers when you ask opinions, especially if you are also asking for help - none of us know what kind of game you play or are in, so take all the advise and any criticism with a grain of salt.
TL:DR Play what you want.
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You need to focus on casting or combat. No character can split their feat's, ability scores, and magic items. Then expect to be effective in both. Not many rpg games are built that way for a reason. Your part of a group. Pick a role and fill it.
With out changing starts, or race. You might want to think about going with. Witch (Hedge Witch) at level 4 they get spontaneous cure spells. With the healing patron they get most of the condition removal spells. Another option to think about is the Cartomancer archetype. This lets you use your touch spells at range. Including your cure spells. This gives you arcane spell casting with access to some divine spells.
A good second option if you can move your stats around a bit. A Bard can fit every thing you want. With the exception they don't do as well on the casting. However they do make good arcane casters that can heal and fight if you have the right feat's.
I will say your current idea probley looks good on paper. From exp. it will not work very well in game play. The mystic thurg is out done by a single class witch. The witch will have more spells, and higher level spells. Along with Hexes equal to their level. Granting the witch a large advantage over the mystic thurg in raw power.
Spirit Guide Oracle might be your best bet. it isnt arcane from day one, but if you take the lore spirit and arcane enlightenment hex at level 3, you get to add your chamod in arcane spells to your list. New ones every day. I'm playing one in a campaign and its proving hugely fun and useful.
Its not a mystic theurge, but hey...it has full casting on both sides, as long as you're ok with only grabbing so many arcane spells.
If you're looking at being an arcane caster that can heal, I'd recommend either bard or witch. Both get healing spells and useful abilities, both always have something they can do in combat, and both are usually welcome in a group.
I have decided to go
6 levels in Arcanist
1 Level in Oracle (Battle)
10 levels in Eldrick Knight
3 Not sure yet...
There are some oracle mysteries that let you blast the one that comes to mind is the flame one. A druid might be a decent pick it has a unique and diverse range of spell casting options.
I know it is a TERRIBLE idea, but I am also thinking of starting as a wizard for exactly one level, only so I can start with a few things I want (A familiar and a school power). I realize I can grab both from arcanist in time...
Why not just stick with Wizard, or go with a bloodline Arcanist? If you're human, you can get a familiar with two feats at first level. Generally, I try to exhaust all other options before taking a dip for something I want. Your class levels are your most valuable resource, after all.
I really like arcanist, I like the flexible spellbook ability ALOT. the idea of using two feats for the eldrick bloodline ability is not a bad idea either in all honesty
It is hard to get arcane casting, divine casting, being decent in melee, and have all of them be decent.
You are going to have to give something up.
Witches are arcane, with some divine spells. Don't expect much in melee combat though.
Bards are arcane with some fighting ability, and they can cast cure spells.
If you multiclass you wanted to try to do you will likely be bad at all 3.
I really like arcanist, I like the flexible spellbook ability ALOT. the idea of using two feats for the eldrick bloodline ability is not a bad idea either in all honesty
Iron Will plus Familiar Bond gets you a familiar at full level, but without some features. If you're human, you can do it at first level.
I have found one handy trait for Eldritch Knights. Surprise Weapon gives a +2 bonus on improvised weapon attack rolls, which is a pretty big bonus for a trait. Coupled with Arcane Strike you should be good on hitting people.
Actually thought about it, realized that if I use my first exploit on familiar and first feat be "Extra Exploit" will get me both
Actually thought about it, realized that if I use my first exploit on familiar and first feat be "Extra Exploit" will get me both
Oh wow, didn't realize they got one at first. My tables all don't use Arcanist by mutual agreement. But yeah, much easier than a dip.
I know it is a TERRIBLE idea, but I am also thinking of starting as a wizard for exactly one level, only so I can start with a few things I want (A familiar and a school power). I realize I can grab both from arcanist in time...Take a look into variant multiclassing for wizard? It would give you both of those. Although yeah, not immediately either...
VMC doesn't stack with regular multiclassing by default. You can use one or the other.
What is variable multi classing? not familiar with that one (Unless you are referring to some of the classes that merge features...like arcanist)
I think the only absolute is that you cannot combine VMC for a given class with actual levels in that class -- so if you are a VMC wizard, you cannot take any actual wizard levels.
What is variable multi classing? not familiar with that one (Unless you are referring to some of the classes that merge features...like arcanist)
Variant Mullti-Classing is an optional rules system from Pathfinder Unchained. You trade away your feats for levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19 to gain limited access to certain class features of another class (core and base classes from before Vigilante). You make the choice at first level.
What is variable multi classing? not familiar with that one (Unless you are referring to some of the classes that merge features...like arcanist)Variant Mullti-Classing is an optional rules system from Pathfinder Unchained. You trade away your feats for levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19 to gain limited access to certain class features of another class (core and base classes from before Vigilante). You make the choice at first level.
Since it is an optional rule as a group you can decide how to use it. I'd allow other multiclassing for a home group.
The description does say that it was made to replace multiclassing but people can decide to use both.
If you want to look up VMC it's here.
If you're looking at Arcanist 6 / Battle Oracle 1 / Eldritch (not Eldrick!) Knight 10 you might like to consider the Blade Adept archetype for the arcanist if you want to lean a bit more towards melee combat.
I avoid Int. Weapons as a general rule (My last one actually worked out well...The table still debates who was in control as we kind of thought the same way...only one minor disagreement about fighting a dragon, I thought it was better to spend a few minutes going to the inn and grabbing are rogue...)But I will debate it...
Question about Arcanists: Can they use the exploit to take Universalist?
Spirit Guide Oracle might be your best bet. it isnt arcane from day one, but if you take the lore spirit and arcane enlightenment hex at level 3, you get to add your chamod in arcane spells to your list. New ones every day. I'm playing one in a campaign and its proving hugely fun and useful.
Its not a mystic theurge, but hey...it has full casting on both sides, as long as you're ok with only grabbing so many arcane spells.
As much as I would love this to be true, it is not. Arcane Enlightenment adds "to the list of shaman spells she can prepare". As Oracles do not prepare spells, Arcane Enlightenment does nothing for them. Tragic, but that's the rules.
to bad staff adept didn't get the same treatment as blade for arcanist
As much as I would love this to be true, it is not. Arcane Enlightenment adds "to the list of shaman spells she can prepare". As Oracles do not prepare spells, Arcane Enlightenment does nothing for them. Tragic, but that's the rules.Spirit Guide Oracle might be your best bet. it isnt arcane from day one, but if you take the lore spirit and arcane enlightenment hex at level 3, you get to add your chamod in arcane spells to your list. New ones every day. I'm playing one in a campaign and its proving hugely fun and useful.
Its not a mystic theurge, but hey...it has full casting on both sides, as long as you're ok with only grabbing so many arcane spells.
Huh. I didn't know that, and this is not a defense, but it did work in herolab. Guess I'll bug report it. appreciated!
I want to thank everyone once again. I have decided to make things quite differently than I originally wanted to, but that is why I posted. I will be starting a new thread with the current build to be reviewed
Your current build ends up with 14 BAB, 7th level arcane spellcasting (CL 15), and 5th level divine spellcasting (CL 9).
Your combat ability is nonexistent. You have some BAB but no class features to supplement it and poor ability to buff it. Your spellcasting is worthless.
Any spell you cast with a save will be useless, and caster level checks (Spell Resistance, Dispel Magic, Concentration, etc.) will be a nightmare for you to make.
Just for comparison sake, a regular divine spellcaster would have at this level, BAB 15, 9th level divine spellcasting, and access to 7th level or lower arcane spells at no cost via "Miracle" (8th level spells with the feat, "Dreamed Secrets" but that involves deity worship). If you're an Oracle then you can have a number of class features that support your combat ability, even some that give you a full 20 BAB for a duration of time!
Sorcerers are in a similar boat, with certain bloodlines yielding incredible benefits for those who stay in the class. And the power of 9th level spells extend to buffs, too BTW. Shapechange, in particular, is easily one of my favorite high level buffs, in part due to it's 10 min/level duration that you can keep up constantly. That combined with the Orc Bloodline easily fixes your combat capabilities, while still leaving you with the pinnacle of arcane spellcasting.
tl;dr? Don't multiclass spellcasting characters.