Mage killer rogue


Advice

101 to 150 of 566 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Boomerang Nebula wrote:

I would go with using the cleric spell list instead of the wizard one because most people won't foresee that as a possibility. Design an archer rogue with very high use magic device skill. Have multiple scrolls of the following spells: divination, commune and miracle.

Cast divination to determine when the Wizard will next be asleep. When the time comes confirm that the wizard is asleep with a commune spell and use that spell to determine anything else you want to know about the Wizard's defences.

Mindblank.

Divination and Commune are indirect spells, you aren't using divination magic to find out about the Wizard you are using divination magic to access the knowledge of a deity or their subordinates. Neither spell is specifically called out in the description for Mindblank so it is GM's call whether they work or not.


Boomerang Nebula wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Boomerang Nebula wrote:

I would go with using the cleric spell list instead of the wizard one because most people won't foresee that as a possibility. Design an archer rogue with very high use magic device skill. Have multiple scrolls of the following spells: divination, commune and miracle.

Cast divination to determine when the Wizard will next be asleep. When the time comes confirm that the wizard is asleep with a commune spell and use that spell to determine anything else you want to know about the Wizard's defences.

Mindblank.
Divination and Commune are indirect spells, you aren't using divination magic to find out about the Wizard you are using divination magic to access the knowledge of a deity or their subordinates. Neither spell is specifically called out in the description for Mindblank so it is GM's call whether they work or not.

Wait, wasn't this thread about a mage-killer rogue? Not a killer mage-rogue.


Variation on the original question: What if you need to capture the Wizard alive? (For instance, you need to capture a Runelord to hand over to the Decemvirate of the Pathfinder Society.)


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Variation on the original question: What if you need to capture the Wizard alive? (For instance, you need to capture a Runelord to hand over to the Decemvirate of the Pathfinder Society.)

That becomes exponentially more difficult. Not only do you have to circumvent all the Wizard's abilities and protections, you need to defeat the Wizard without killing the Wizard outright. Given how Rogues and high-level combat works, it's incredibly likely that you'll completely overshoot the negative CON unconscious-but-not-dead threshold if you go at it with regular damage. If I had to place a bet on what build could do it, it would probably be some variation of the nonlethal sap adept scout rogue or the vanilla Unchained Rogue managing to land a master strike.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

^True, although taking the Wizard alive puts a crimp on contigencies of the form "If I am killed do . . .".


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^True, although taking the Wizard alive puts a crimp on contigencies of the form "If I am killed do . . .".

I would assume the Wizard would have some sort of contingent teleport if they are incapacitated or below a certain health threshold. Contingencies are much more use for the living than the dead.


Yeah and a wizard has eschew material, still spell, silent spell, and spell mastery it gets even harder to keep them down.

Of course still not impossible.


Take the Poisoner archetype, Poison Focus feat, Treacherous Poison feat, Deadly Cocktail Talent, Stealthy Sniper Talent, Expert Sniper Feat, Greater Sniper Goggles, Far Shot feat, a Toxic/Improved Sniping/Distance/Seeking heavy crossbow and shoot before he can see you.


Xaimum Mafire wrote:
Take the Poisoner archetype, Poison Focus feat, Treacherous Poison feat, Deadly Cocktail Talent, Stealthy Sniper Talent, Expert Sniper Feat, Greater Sniper Goggles, Far Shot feat, a Toxic/Improved Sniping/Distance/Seeking heavy crossbow and shoot before he can see you.

The problem with that is that many Wizards have the option to ignore poison entirely via a polymorph, or barring that, can Lesser Wish the poison away (Neutralize Poison spell), or even just delay it for some 20-odd hours (Delay Poison spell). You'd almost be better off just damaging them. Actually, the Painful Blow feat lets you treat 2-3 Vital Strikes a day as constant damage, which would let you neutralize about one round of non-contingent casting. But Vital Strike is a bit out of Rogue range and a bit more full BAB class-ish. Rogue weapons generally have lower damage dice than optimal for Vital Striking.

Of course, this assumes the Wizard has not taken proper precautions against ranged or sneak attacks.

You might also consider peeking through Divine/Demonic Obediences. All of them have 20th level capstone abilities, and some are actually pretty good.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Yeah and a wizard has eschew material, still spell, silent spell, and spell mastery it gets even harder to keep them down.

Of course still not impossible.

Who ever said you need them conscious? Or with positive HP? Just poke them with your dagger/shoot blowdarts into them, patching them up with a wand of Infernal Healing whenever they start to look dead. Sprinkle 10 oz distilled Drow Poison every minute, rinse and repeat.


I suppose the old fashioned way of the middle ages. If they hire others you could get hired and use poison in their food, unless they use someone to always test their food first (many did in history, but you rarely hear of people doing it in RPGs) there are ways you might be able to incapacitate them that way...especially if you are not above mixing magical potions into your poisons...


GreyWolfLord wrote:
I suppose the old fashioned way of the middle ages. If they hire others you could get hired and use poison in their food, unless they use someone to always test their food first (many did in history, but you rarely hear of people doing it in RPGs) there are ways you might be able to incapacitate them that way...especially if you are not above mixing magical potions into your poisons...

Unfortunately, there's a Wizard cantrip that detects poison. Plus, I'd imagine a truly paranoid Wizard would learn to cook for himself.


Given that this is a level 20 fight, I'm surprised no one had mentioned the Foresight spell. Kind of negates any element of surprise. Ever.


Zenogu, actually... the specific spell Foresight was not mentioned, but several method for defeating it were mentioned. In fact, while it doesn't allow me to save, because it's a divination spell, arguably of the Scrying subschool (since it gives foreknowledge of a specific event), there are two abilities, Nameless One and Scry Slip, which would force the caster to make 2 caster level checks, one at 10+ overall level and the second at 15 + rogue level, for it to even work. (Given my current build thought, that'd be a 30 and a 33, respectively). Since it's not targeting me, I don't get my will save or my scrying avoidance abilities (though, arguably, I should, since it would still be providing knowledge via a sensor), but there's still less than a 1 in 4 chance if him actually being prepared for it.

And for the argument of divine knowledge, Nameless One covers that. You adopt, in place of your name, a short descriptive title, and shun so effectively all previous identities that even the gods themselves cannot link you to the previous identities. Imagine how useless it would be to even the most paranoid wizard to be told "the Eater will come for you". Or "The Tall One desires your death."

I'm getting some really good ideas here.

Anyone got any ideas on what can be done about scrying sensors? Specifically improving my chances of detecting them and/or bypassing them, other than boosting skills, taking previously mentioned feats, blag blab blah.

IS there a way for the mage to make the sensors harder to detect? If so, how much harder than the base of 20+spell level?


Foresight is absolutely not a Scrying subschool spell. Nothing is "arguably" part of a subschool, it's listed in its spell description or it isn't part of that subschool.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
N. Jolly wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
"And then my wizard have a spell that can disable golems despite their immunity! Ofcourse he made wands so you dont see it on his prepares spell-list!"
Most spells that beat golems don't even interact with their immunity, why do people assume golems being immune to spells that allow spell resistance makes them invincible to all magic? Have we forgotten the painful ease of any of the create pit spells to deal with them? I mean I posted the mage who'd do the best job of this earlier, there's no need to ask for a stat block.

In Kingmaker - Rivers Run Red, my party's Arcanist cast Persistent Create Pit twice and Create Pit once. The golem needed an 18 or higher to pass. I rolled above an 18 five times in a row.

A once-in-a-lifetime experience for sure.


One thing that has mentioned is the leadership feat. Now I know this feat is banned in a lot of games and probably rightfully so, but it does meet the requirements. Your cohort could be an 17th level crafting focused wizard that would even out the wealth advantage of a wizard crafting his own items. This would also allow for the creation of simulacrum versions of the rogue to counter those of the wizard. This would also give you a bunch of low level minions to assist in your plans. One thing they can do is to stage fake attacks to get the wizard to waste his resources.

Some people may consider this to be cheese but allowing the wizard to automatically be aware of the rogue’s plans against him are also equally cheesy. I would mainly use this to counter the wizards trying to use clones and simulacrum type spells to effectively try the old that wasn’t really me you defeated ploy.

Silver Crusade

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

One thing that has mentioned is the leadership feat. Now I know this feat is banned in a lot of games and probably rightfully so, but it does meet the requirements. Your cohort could be an 17th level crafting focused wizard that would even out the wealth advantage of a wizard crafting his own items. This would also allow for the creation of simulacrum versions of the rogue to counter those of the wizard. This would also give you a bunch of low level minions to assist in your plans. One thing they can do is to stage fake attacks to get the wizard to waste his resources.

Some people may consider this to be cheese but allowing the wizard to automatically be aware of the rogue’s plans against him are also equally cheesy. I would mainly use this to counter the wizards trying to use clones and simulacrum type spells to effectively try the old that wasn’t really me you defeated ploy.

So the solution to beating a wizard...is to have a weaker pocket wizard. Not really sure what's stopping the wizard from doing the same thing, and being a double wizard.


N. Jolly wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

One thing that has mentioned is the leadership feat. Now I know this feat is banned in a lot of games and probably rightfully so, but it does meet the requirements. Your cohort could be an 17th level crafting focused wizard that would even out the wealth advantage of a wizard crafting his own items. This would also allow for the creation of simulacrum versions of the rogue to counter those of the wizard. This would also give you a bunch of low level minions to assist in your plans. One thing they can do is to stage fake attacks to get the wizard to waste his resources.

Some people may consider this to be cheese but allowing the wizard to automatically be aware of the rogue’s plans against him are also equally cheesy. I would mainly use this to counter the wizards trying to use clones and simulacrum type spells to effectively try the old that wasn’t really me you defeated ploy.

So the solution to beating a wizard...is to have a weaker pocket wizard. Not really sure what's stopping the wizard from doing the same thing, and being a double wizard.

Is there anything stopping a cohort from taking Leadership? this could get excessive real quickly.


A rogue gains more by having a wizard cohort than a wizard does. A wizard would be better off by choosing a cohort of another class. A paladin to act as a bodyguard would be more useful than a weaker wizard. A cleric or druid for access to spells the wizard does not have.

As to the chain leadership I think that would defiantly fall under the heading of cheese. If not it would end up like the Roger Zelazny novel Creatures of light and Darkness. In it two characters had the ability to move in time. When they confronted each other it quickly escalated to the point of each character moving to block the other, only to be blocked by still more of the other character. Which is the main reason I think it falls under the heading of cheese, and as such disallowed by rule 3 of the original poster.

And sometimes the only counter to magic is magic. So while many people may not like the solution it is still a valid solution.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Sideromancer wrote:
Is there anything stopping a cohort from taking Leadership? this could get excessive real quickly.
Be a Noble Scion. Make sure your Cohort is too. Repeat for every Cohort.
Greater Leadership wrote:
At 2nd level, a noble scion gains the Leadership feat as a bonus feat. He can recruit a cohort up to one level lower than himself. At 10th level, he can recruit a cohort of the same level as himself.

Infinite cohorts by 15th level. Well, and everyone has a same level NPC butler (Servitor) as well. Plus 750*(∑1 to <level>) extra gold, and 250 gp a week in discretionary spending. Turtles all the way down. Well, and infinite manpower and gold. Definitely a bit gouda.

As for the pocket Wizard, while not against the rules it's definitely against the intent. The OP wants to prove that a Rogue "can too" beat a Wizard. If they need a Wizard to do it, especially if the Wizard does any of the heavy lifting, they've basically just confirmed that no, a Rogue cannot beat a Wizard.


Aside from the fact that we agreed to no Cohorts, no Leadership.


Max UMD,
Use a scroll of Antimagic Field
Grapple or restrain wizard.
If he is a diviner you probably still lose


And, Bob, thank you. This is a 1v1 match-up, plus whatever our *class* features give us and the 800,000 GP value max suggested wealth on the wealth table can buy. I'm guessing he's going to have golems and/or bound/permanancy'ed summoned creatures. Various types of scrying, including Ask God. Plus, obviously, his spells. It doesn't matter about the "real body", or clones, or anything because if I can take one of them, I can take another. And another. And another. And another. Etc.

I'm planning to take the Craft (Blacksmithing) skill and Rogue's Edge (Craft) because it will let me craft the most gear straight out of the box, and I don't even need it to BE enchanted because 20 ranks in the slotted skill grants you the ability to craft most magical items WITHOUT spells, if you build right. Zero lift from a mage. I'm contemplating going Lich, because there's a ritual that doesn't require mages to perform it. Providing excessive argument from that, I'll swap two of my less vital rogue talents out for Minor Magical Talent (Detect Magic) and Major Magical Talent (something something DARK SIDE!), and I'll qualify as an 11th level character that can "Cast spells."

Zero aid from a mage, guys. That's the objective. Ostensibly, I could handle getting magic items I can't create myself from one, but I'd clearly prefer zero help from a "true magic user."


Tlotig, unless he's so old that his magic is ALL that's keeping him alive, antimagic counts as a harmless spell. Virtually no divination spells that will still work on me will ping from AMF.


Zarius wrote:
Tlotig, unless he's so old that his magic is ALL that's keeping him alive, antimagic counts as a harmless spell. Virtually no divination spells that will still work on me will ping from AMF.

It's more the fact a diviner always gets to act in the surprise round and will have higher initiative than you.


Unless you deprive him of his divination abilities. Which, if all he has is personals like Foresight, isn't that hard to do. Again, antimagic. It's a harmless spell, so even Foresight shouldn't proc a warning about it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

+10 to initiative, automatic 20 on the roll, always act in the surprise round, plus whatever else they feel like scrounging up. The only thing that properly competes with that is something that gets it's own version of that (Kensai, any others?). I have made a diviner (not even focused) who regularly won initiative while being unaware of what was happening.

Just because you can kill a Wizard once doesn't mean you can kill them again. Wizards excel at planning and have the tools to change their tools on a daily basis. Unless you can kill every clone/astral projection during the same day, the Wizard has time to shift around their loadout and choose the exact spells needed to shut you down. Unless you can kill the Wizard in a way that cannot be countered (which is unlikely) then you need a new way to kill the Wizard every time because the old way won't work anymore. Never assume you can kill a Wizard the same way twice.

More importantly, I thought this entire experiment was entirely predicated on you already knowing where the Wizard is and being able to reach there. If you needed to actually track down and reach the Wizard's lair, the Wizard would automatically win. Mindblank + Create Demiplane, relax forever in a paradise of their own making. Why this matters is that that's almost certainly where they keep their clones/real body. So unless you have a way to track them down to their private demiplane and then reach said demiplane, you cannot kill them again before they've already reprepared and are now hunting you and not vice-versa. And they're much better at hunting you than you are at hunting them.

You will want to bring up the Lich thing with your GM. The part most people forget (but the ritual does cover, I think) is that the phylactery is only part of becoming a Lich. Basically, every Lich needs a phylactery, but making a phylactery doesn't make you a Lich.

Also, I don't think Major/Minor Magic count as "able to cast spells". I'm pretty sure they changed that FAQ so SLAs no longer count as "cast spells". Sure seems to be what this FAQ is saying. Ditto for caster level. Specifically, "However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells"."

As for Antimagic Field, if they don't just choose to be immune, then the floor is lava. No, literally. Polymorph Any Object, lava->stone is permanent, build your tower out of it. First joker who tries Antimagic Field gets to be buried in lava. Of course, if they manage to dismiss the Antimagic Field then they're encased in rock, so there is no "win".

Oh, and "harmless" is a specific tag for spells. One that Antimagic Field doesn't have. It's not harmless.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
"LuniasM wrote:

In Kingmaker - Rivers Run Red, my party's Arcanist cast Persistent Create Pit twice and Create Pit once. The golem needed an 18 or higher to pass. I rolled above an 18 five times in a row.

A once-in-a-lifetime experience for sure.

.... It was spiked pit ....


Zarius wrote:
Unless you deprive him of his divination abilities. Which, if all he has is personals like Foresight, isn't that hard to do. Again, antimagic. It's a harmless spell, so even Foresight shouldn't proc a warning about it.

How are you going to get him in the aura? It's not like you just get to walk up to him and you can't teleport because AMF...

plus what triple bob said.


Zarius wrote:

It doesn't matter about the "real body", or clones, or anything because if I can take one of them, I can take another. And another. And another. And another. Etc.

That's not necessarily true. You probably can't even find or get to his final body on a private demiplane. This mostly isn't even a Rogue 20 vs. Wizard 20 issue, a Wizard 20 would find it very difficult to kill another Wizard 20. In that situation the best bet would probably be to use Imprisonment and then put up some defenses at that spot so no one can free him.

Zarius wrote:
Unless you deprive him of his divination abilities. Which, if all he has is personals like Foresight, isn't that hard to do. Again, antimagic. It's a harmless spell, so even Foresight shouldn't proc a warning about it.

Antimagic stops magic from working inside of it. I'd still have Foresight detect the outer limit of the Antimagic field itself and give the recipient a warning that it's approaching and the best way to defend against it to flee.


Antimagic Field is countered by Aroden's Spellbane, which a smart wizard will have in effect. The wizard will also be on his own private demiplane with mindblank in effect.

You can't find the wizard to get to him in the first place, you've already lost.

Lantern Lodge

Semi-related question:

Since This 20th level wizard is so unassailable, how does a 20th level wizard kill a 20th level wizard?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Semi-related question:

Since This 20th level wizard is so unassailable, how does a 20th level wizard kill a 20th level wizard?

With kindness.

By trying to never be at odds with the other 20th level wizard and staying out of each other's way. The easiest way to win a war is to never fight.

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu


Even if you did kill a Wizard 20, if it were me I would perpetually have a dominated creature with a Wish or True Resurrection scroll (and capable of using it) who I would order to stay put in a safe, isolated location and resurrect me if 12-24 hours goes by without receiving mental contact. Even if they overcome everything else only Imprisonment, Soul Trap, Soul Bind, or similar effects will stop you from coming back. Ordering a dominated creature to find and free you has a much lower likelihood of success.


To expand on your question though, a wizard's strength is mostly in their defenses. Putting a wizard in a position where he has had time to build his defenses and set up the scenario it will always be in his favor. A wizard on the defense will have all his power to bear directed in his own defense with time to maximize it to it's fullest.

The high level wizard is actually at his weakest on the offense. Out of his demiplane, away from his constructs, undead, or other allies. Outside the protection of magical traps and wards.

The best time to attack the wizard is when he's come to attack you.

Sovereign Court

3 people marked this as a favorite.

This is how I'm starting to see this thread -

OP: I'm a boxer and my friend told me that I can't punch through a 6 inch thick stone wall. How do I punch through a stone wall?

Answers: You can't just punch through a normal stone wall. Maybe you could try to weaken the stone wall first, or maybe you could try to get a robotic arm to punch through the stone wall.

OP: No - I want to punch through stone wall myself! Tell me how to do it.

Answers: ...


And whether Eldritch Scoundrel to kill the Wizard?

Lantern Lodge

Claxon wrote:

The best time to attack the wizard is when he's come to attack you.

This sounds like a pretty good start. How do we get this to happen?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The best time to attack the wizard is when he's come to attack you.

This sounds like a pretty good start. How do we get this to happen?

If we can figure out something the Wizard wants we could try to get him to come to the rogue who everyone thinks has it. Just use the Rogue Talent Rumormonger to spread the Rumor that the rogue has it!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
pipedreamsam wrote:
"LuniasM wrote:

In Kingmaker - Rivers Run Red, my party's Arcanist cast Persistent Create Pit twice and Create Pit once. The golem needed an 18 or higher to pass. I rolled above an 18 five times in a row.

A once-in-a-lifetime experience for sure.

.... It was spiked pit ....

Yeah, what he said. Not that it mattered.


Artifix wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The best time to attack the wizard is when he's come to attack you.

This sounds like a pretty good start. How do we get this to happen?
If we can figure out something the Wizard wants we could try to get him to come to the rogue who everyone thinks has it. Just use the Rogue Talent Rumormonger to spread the Rumor that the rogue has it!

That has potential. But you have to figure out something a 20th level wizard wants and doesn't have, that he also can't just replicate on his own.

You also need to be prepared for the very likely situation that he goes to the location as an astral projection or sends minions instead of going in person. Remember, with Greater Planar Binding he could have an Ghaele, Barbed Devil, Glabrezu, Nalfeshnee, or Marilith working for him. Or all of them since the spell can last days per level and only takes 10 minutes to cast. In a day or two he can several bound minions working on acquiring what he wants instead of risking himself.

It's got to be something so important that he wouldn't want another creature involved and would actually risk themselves.

This sort of question isn't something that can be answered online, because this is very much a role play aspect. And if the wizard player knows you're trying to draw him out (either in or out of character) he's probably going to take all the precautions he can against actually going himself if possible.

If there was a situation where multiple things happened that he needed to deal with (either in person or through a proxy) but he didn't have enough proxies (simulacrums, bound outsiders) then there is a chance you might get him. In the form of an astral projection.

Now how do you get him as an astral projection? Still very hard. You can't kill him. He just pops back into his own body. You can't trap him, he can dismiss the spell and pop back into his own body.

Grand Lodge

Is it cheating if the Rogue picks up a Scroll of Antimagic Field? DC 31 for a UMD check at level 20 seems doable and we've given the Wizard all the cash he needs to cast all his spells.

Grand Lodge

Arcane Addict wrote:
Have you considered simply destroying the tower while the wizard sleeps, crushing him in the rubble? I'm not being sarcastic, this is a serious suggestion. Your DM's hubris is similar to that of wizards. Defy his assumptions about how you would approach it by attacking from an unexpected angle. I mean, the goal is to beat him right? You're a rogue, embrace the idea and just don't fight fair! Just win!

Ooh, Day 1 don't go after him go for his spellbook! Steal it, burn it, come back the next day.


Claxon wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The best time to attack the wizard is when he's come to attack you.

This sounds like a pretty good start. How do we get this to happen?
If we can figure out something the Wizard wants we could try to get him to come to the rogue who everyone thinks has it. Just use the Rogue Talent Rumormonger to spread the Rumor that the rogue has it!

That has potential. But you have to figure out something a 20th level wizard wants and doesn't have, that he also can't just replicate on his own.

You also need to be prepared for the very likely situation that he goes to the location as an astral projection or sends minions instead of going in person. Remember, with Greater Planar Binding he could have an Ghaele, Barbed Devil, Glabrezu, Nalfeshnee, or Marilith working for him. Or all of them since the spell can last days per level and only takes 10 minutes to cast. In a day or two he can several bound minions working on acquiring what he wants instead of risking himself.

It's got to be something so important that he wouldn't want another creature involved and would actually risk themselves.

This sort of question isn't something that can be answered online, because this is very much a role play aspect. And if the wizard player knows you're trying to draw him out (either in or out of character) he's probably going to take all the precautions he can against actually going himself if possible.

If there was a situation where multiple things happened that he needed to deal with (either in person or through a proxy) but he didn't have enough proxies (simulacrums, bound outsiders) then there is a chance you might get him. In the form of an astral projection.

Now how do you get him as an astral projection? Still very hard. You can't kill him. He just pops back into his own body. You can't trap him, he...

An ancient artifact or Philospher's Stone? Perhaps selling it out as willing to trade or something. As for the Astral Projection, what are ways to break the Cord? If we can break that don't both the Projection and Wizard die?

Silver Crusade

Artifix wrote:
An ancient artifact or Philospher's Stone? Perhaps selling it out as willing to trade or something. As for the Astral Projection, what are ways to break the Cord? If we can break that don't both the Projection and Wizard die?

I'd question how the rogue would have said artifact before the wizard, seeing as that the wizard can use the incredible myriad of magic at their control while the rogue has to go through whatever was guarding said artifact beforehand. Also until PF post something, the only way to break the cord is 3.5.

And on the previously mentioned topic of destroying the wizard's spellbook; by 20th level, no wizard should have 1 spellbook. Like not even saying they'd make duplicates, more so that the volume of spells that the wizard would know is just too much for 1 spell book, especially with how much space higher level spells take up. That's assuming the wizard doesn't just have the spellbooks on them or just not in a place where they can be easily destroyed (what a bad 20th level wizard that would be).


Antimagic Field is a very bad idea. One, the Wizard is probably immune (Spellbane). Two, it's so well known that I presume every Wizard has a counter. Personally I've been suggesting making their tower out of Lava, polymorphed into stone. Another option is making all the rats in the tower Baleful Polymorphed monsters. Three, Antimagic Field only works as long as you can keep the Wizard in range. The second the Wizard is more than 10 feet away all their spells kick back on and now they're invisible/flying/everything else, and the Rogue is now unable to see them, reach them, or do @#$%ing anything. Fourth, if the Wizard has a nice beefy bound outsider or simulacrum bodyguard, they're going to paste the Rogue. No magical bonuses to AC (or HP) versus 44 Str, who do you think is going to win?

As others have said, if the Wizard wants to have just their free spells from leveling, they need at least two spellbooks. More importantly, if it's an Astral Projection then it's an astral spellbook (and the real one is fine). Or they have a Blessed Book (and thus can copy any other spellbook they have for free). It's cheap enough they probably have 3 or 4. I know I did.

The Rogue doesn't have to actually have the artifact. Just lie hard enough. The real problem is figuring out what the Wizard wants. Crank calling gods is good for that but short of divine intervention I can't see how the Rogue can do it. Maybe an obscene Knowledge (history) check?

Grand Lodge

Antimagic Field is fine, sure Spellbane cancels it out if they overlap but at that point the Wizard is within 10 ft of the Rogue, not really where he wants to be. Also the wizard can't use magic on the Rogue while the field is up, so it's still a huge defense boon. No need to worry about SR or such, just can't be hit by magic at all unless they used one of their four spell slots on spellbane, in which case they need to close in.

With the matter of the bound creature how much prep time are we giving this Wizard? Why does he get a tower? Is the cost of the tower being taken out of his available gold? Like the issue isn't that this is a level 20 Wizard versus a Level 20 Rogue, it's that the Wizard gets a nice fortified tower versus a Rogue who's got to slog through it.

Also wouldn't the tower out of lava mean that once you turned a tiny bit into lava the entire thing would just collapse into a puddle eventually? Can the wizard call that a win?


Ofc Rogue can be Hit in Antymagic Field by Wizard with spells

example:
1) summon something with range attack (something with bow)
2)

effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result

Snowball (lvl1)
Acidic Spray (lvl5)
Clashing Rocks (lvl9)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
PłentaX wrote:

Ofc Rogue can be Hit in Antymagic Field by Wizard with spells

example:
1) summon something with range attack (something with bow)
2)

Technically, the conjured arrow shot from a conjured bow carried by a conjured summon would wink out in an AMF. You could get around this by passing the summon a bundle of arrows (this requires a little too much faffing about for my taste, though).

However, Lantern Archons can shoot into an AMF with their (Ex) Light rays without issue.

101 to 150 of 566 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Mage killer rogue All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.