So the idea struck me I think its kind of safe to assume that people that post on the forum are on average more experienced with pathfinder then people who do not frequent the forums and Paizo website. (that is to say on average no every single individual think bell curve) However to conclude this would require some sort of test I suppose which would be way more work then i'm willing to go through (when i should be preparing for my next game :P)
with that in mind I thought volunteering time played with amount of content used etc. really i would say there is 3 knowledge's associated knowledge of mechanics (through out all books) knowledge of lore (campaign setting stuff etc.) and experience role playing in pathfinder (dming would be under this category too.) you could probably also add knowledge of third party materials and knowledge of adventure paths.
I don't want to do a self rating I feel it would be inaccurate but it might not be bad to do an example so ill try.
scaling 1-5 1 being knowing nothing 5 being know pretty much everything there is to know
Mechanics: 4.5
lore: 2
role play experience (specific to PF) 4
3rd party: 2.5
adventure path: 1 (rarely if ever usually run own stuff)
(overall level?):14
This is just kind of a thought exercise but one would be curious if one could get a baseline of how people play and what people favor this way. I assume some people play for all the sweet Golarion lore some play for awesome adventure paths some for rule sets and some play for all or some combination.
The knowledges are important too, but there are other factors, like character presentation and immersion. Or backstory crafting.
I'm down for more categories Do you not feel that those 3 factors would fit under role play experience? or maybe I should define the categorizes better or rename it to creative role playing? or something similar?
I'm down for more categories Do you not feel that those 3 factors would fit under role play experience?
They could, but you could similarly fit all of the other options into a metric called "game knowledge".
This is true but its to broad for what i'm thinking and your method might be a bit too specific.
Mechanics: 4
lore: 3
role play experience (specific to PF) 2
3rd party: 2
adventure path: 3 (rarely if ever usually run own stuff)
(overall level?):14
I've been playing Pathfinder for about 4 years now, usually as a GM. I'm not at the point where I can remember exactly what the DC is for various skills or have monster statblocks memorized, but I'm very familiar with the fiddly bits of building monsters and NPCs. My first experience was reading the CRB front-to-back.
I love reading and fantasy is my genre of choice, so I'm fairly decent on the setting's lore. However there are still areas where I'm hazy - I can't name any of the deities except for the main ones off the top of my head, I'm not terribly familiar with the country names, and I haven't gotten to read all the campaign settings due to price barriers.
In my time playing Pathfinder I've been a PC 3 times - one campaign stopped at Level 4, the second at Level 7, and the third is on hiatus while my GM takes a break to play in Wrath. I'm not the greatest at RP but I feel like I do a good enough job with the NPCs which is enough for me.
Our group doesn't usually use a lot of 3rd-party material but I've read over the Spheres of Power and Path of War systems and I purchase a small book every now and then. Still haven't read any of the psionics stuff.
After my first three campaigns ended I've stuck to APs, and I've run Kingmaker to Book 6, Jade Regent to the end of Book 3, and Wrath of the Righteous to Book 3. I'm a player in Skull and Shackles where we're almost up to Book 5.
One area that might be added is Homebrew, both for the sake of crunch and fluff. I've added and altered so much stuff for Kingmaker and Wrath that they're practically not even the same APs anymore. The barebones plot of Kingmaker is the same but I've gone so far off the rails in Wrath that I have to make up an entire book's worth of material.
I didn't expect the copy paste approach ill make a less convoluted one
Mechanics:
lore:
Pathfinder "role" play experience:
3rd party::
adventure path:
overall level:
that is sort of what I was thinking
Mechanics: 4.5
lore: 3.0
Pathfinder "role" play experience: 4.0
3rd party:: 2.0
adventure path: 2.5
I keep current on all the new material and FAQs. I read all the lore in the rules and supplements, I don't read the novels and very rarely use 3rd party material. I have run a few adventure paths and only casually familiar with the rest.
As for "role" play. This is my passion at the game table. I know my accents are horrible, but I always try to approach everything from in character, even if my decisions are not the "best."
Mechanics: 4.5 - if it's in the hardback book(s) I'm familiar with it. There's a few books I don't have & my group pays no attention to FAQs/errata (we've solved the problems ourselves to our own liking & I'm not involved in PFS)
lore: 3.5 - I don't read the novels & there's a great # of modules & stuff I don't own.
Pathfinder "role" play experience: 5
3rd party:: 1.5 - There's more of this than I could ever be familiar with. So I make no effort. Sometimes I stumble across something cool & add it to the shelf though. And if I ever decide I need something PF itself doesn't offer then I go looking.
adventure path: 3 - I know the synopsis for all of them. I've played about 1/3rd of them, & read through another 1/3rd.
overall level: 17.5/25
mechanics: 3
lore: 4
RP: 5
3pp: 1
AP: 2
mechanics: I know a bit of the hardcover rules but have hardly touched the Advanced Class Guide or Mythic Adventures and I still haven't read Occult Adventures
lore: I have read the inner sea world guide, inner sea gods, and many many chronicle and campaign setting maerials cover to cover and have read the old short fiction here, and about a third of the novels.
RP: regardless of mechanics I get extremely immersed into my characters head. I still love the fact the dice determine my fate, but quite often I will describe in detail my hits, misses, and effects.
3pp: I only own dreamscarred press psionics and path of war material, and I think I have a race book from kobold press or some such
AP: I've read through Rise of the Runelords, Hell's Rebels, Hell's Vengeance, and Carrion Crown, and my Kingmaker game just started back up after my chemo.
overall, I'm a pretty casual dude who plays pathfinder like 5e, throwing out rules or making quick judgement calls to keep the game flowing
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- Mechanics (I'm a total rules lawyer and often know more than I should)
- Campaign Lore (I know extensive amounts of setting lore, but I could certainly know more)
- Pathfinder Experience (Been playing since its release, lots of XP with other d20 games as well)
- Third Party Experience (Loath them, though I've played in games where others used them)
- Adventure Path Experience (approx. 75% of games are pregen adventures)
Grand Total: 16.0
Mechanics: 4.0
lore: 1.5
role play experience (specific to PF) 4
3rd party: 4.5
adventure path: 1
15.
I am a mechanics and rule junkie - I read mechanics dive into them, take them apart, put them together, so how it fits.
I don't use much Golarion, so not much with lore.
Been playing PF for a lont time, and love the role side of things too.
I am a third party junkie - I have move 3rd party stuff than Paizo.
I've played in the start of two adventure paths (concurently)
so far looks like most people rate themselves pretty highly on mechanics that makes since your on the paizo website looking up more stuff so i can see that. third party love seems to fluctuate the most.
i like your format the best i think Rdork
4 - Mechanics.
4 - Campaign Lore.
5 - Experience.
1 - Third Party.
4 - AP Experience.
Level = 18th.
I wonder if i should of scaled them so that level 20 would be max? award some sort of capstone
Mechanics(knowing all the options by memory): 2.5 Unlike when I played 3.5 I don't have the free time to spend reading every book cover to cover <---not included in score
Mechanics(ability to actually understand the rules and put useful combinations together): I tend to understand how rules, and put them together well. 5.0
lore(Golarion?): My knowledge here is pretty good 4.0
role play experience (specific to PF) Been playing since the official CRB came out.
3rd party: 2.5 I don't use a lot of 3rd party stuff, but I am familiar with the better companies. I know these guys also create stuff for Paizo, and often the quality is at least average.
adventure path: 5.0 I have not written an adventure since Pathfinder started, and I am familiar with the tone of most AP's even if I don't own them.
(overall level?):21.5
now not to doubt you but 5 might be high but now that i look over it your dividing into comprehension and direct knowledge for mechanics would maybe be an average of those 2 things so maybe 3.5 - 4? i don't think dividing it into comprehension and knowledge would be necessary but maybe. i'll think on it. and if you played all the APs then yeah I guess 5 would be right.
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Mechanics: 5.0
lore: 3.5
Pathfinder "role" play experience: 2.0 (More of a mechaical player)
3rd party:: 2.5 (Normally shy away unless its flavorful, like 9-tail mystic )
adventure path: 1.0 My only experience ended in disaster, so i rather write my own stuff.
overall level: 14
now not to doubt you but 5 might be high but now that i look over it your dividing into comprehension and direct knowledge for mechanics would maybe be an average of those 2 things so maybe 3.5 - 4? i don't think dividing it into comprehension and knowledge would be necessary but maybe. i'll think on it. and if you played all the APs then yeah I guess 5 would be right.
AP, you have a point, but the mechanics was really defined as to what you meant so I split them up. I think the ability to apply the knowledge is more important than knowing every option because if you are good at making characters you really only need the core book. The rest is just a bonus. At the same time if you have all of the books, but your comprehension of the rules is not at least average the your character will still suffer mechanically. Basically comprehension and the ability to build a character is about 90%. Having knowledge that ___ exist is about 10%.
Hmm that is an interesting point.
Well i suppose the assumption would be that if your frequent the forums your more likely to be exposed to more material and interpretations but am i sure no its a theory
*Mechanics: 4.5 (Have played 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder from the *beginning)
*lore: 2.5 (About average)
*role play experience (specific to PF) 4.5 (Have played 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder from the beginning)
*3rd party: 2.5 (we use almost everything published by Legendary games plus an assortment of stuff from other companies).
*adventure path: 3 (Have finished one adventure path and played seven others about halfway through plus a handful of published modules)
Mechanics: 3 - I don't think I can claim any higher than 3, even though I make an attempt to own all the hardcovers Paizo makes. I pay little to no attention at all to FAQ's but have begun to notice them of late, when they've actually come up in my games.
Lore: 1.5 - I own the Inner Sea World Guide. Does that count? I've read it a lot for inspiration, but it doesn't provide as much depth as, say, an AP.
Role Play Experience (specific to PF): 3.5 - Hard to quantify, but I like to think I'm moving out of the Novice Stage of Roleplay. I am the main DM for my group, and I've got also several fleshed out characters under my belt. None of our groups campaigns have ever reached the end, but I haven't planned and worked on my most recent setting for over a year to let it die suddenly.
3rd Party: 2 - I have several 3rd party books but they're mostly spell compendiums and nondenominational GM helpers.
Adventure Path: 1 - I have never played an AP. Well, I did once, but it lasted a single session. I usually run my own stuff or play in a friends world.
You should consider splitting Role play experience into Player/GM experience, because they're very different, and some people might be higher on one side over the other. Could be a useful metric.
OOH I might have to drop myself by half a point I didn't think about faqs
Hmm I really hate going for more then 5 factors But you are right it is a very Different experience in fact it would almost be worth dividing everything into or rather doing two separate ones for dm and players. Hmm although if your good at role playing a DM wouldn't that carry over to playing and vice versa.
Mechanics: 3.5, I used to be a 4 but to be honest I haven't been fully able to keep up with the hardbacks since ACG, and know very little about the the softbacks
Lore: 3, I know a pretty good amount
RP Experience: 4, Had 2 Good campaigns and several ones that stalled out
3rd Party: 1, I know nothing here
Adventure Path: 1.5, I've done book 1 of Second Darkness and a couple of the free one-shots
Level 12, I guess?
Mechanics: 4- I am the rules lawyer, though often bend the rules as a DM if it means making a more interesting narrative or if it fits my world better
lore: 1- I know some, but most games I run are custom, so lore is different than norm 90% of the time.
Pathfinder "role" play experience: 4- I am often the DM. So many fun roles to play.
3rd party: 4 (although focused on Dreamscarred Press and a few randoms, so maybe lower?)
adventure path: 1- don't really use them
overall level: 2.8, mathematically speaking, assuming average. if adding together: 14
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Mechanics: 4
Lore: 3
Pathfinder experience: 5
3rd Party: 3
Adventure Paths: 3
Level: 18
Mythic Rank: 5
I'm still fairly versed in the rules, even if I can no longer quote them verbatim in all cases.
I'm not nearly strong enough in the lore to compete in the trivia contests, but I recognize many elements of the setting, especially related to Pathfinder Society.
I've been playing 3.5 since I started and never branched out. My first campaign was Shackled City and I play in three different APs at a time.
I'm fairly conversant with the big 3rd party publishers, but I don't get to use them as much as I might like thanks to most of my play being organized. Campaign Mode for our APs allows us the opportunity to branch out.
As mentioned before, three APs at a time. We just haven't gotten through enough of them considering the backlog and the pace of publishing.
Naturally, my forum presence and commitment to organized play has unlocked mythic powers, but I still have yet to approach the demigods that move among us.
HA I like forum presence being mythic tier
although regular toz has over 8000 posts so regular toz is far more mythic then mythic toz
I'm just about like Ravingdork - well - in terms of this survey...
Maybe I deserve 2 stars for 3rd party though since one of our DMs uses Mystara as a setting and I guess TSR is "3rd party" if you're playing Pathfinder. He also uses some 3rd party monsters. The other night we had to fight a "Xxyth", which was so obscure I had to visit Inner Circle's website to find a picture of the darned thing for our adventure log.
Does that make me level 17?
Mechanics: 4.5
lore:4.5
Pathfinder "role" play experience: 5
3rd party: 3
adventure path: 4.5
overall level:21.5
Mechanics: I am very good at understanding and remembering mechanics. GM usually ask me rules questions. As a GM I can make monsters, feats, etc. that often fit in well with existing rules. I went with a 4.5 because I sometimes have previous editionisms.
Lore: I have read anything in regards to Golarion...though there are a few things I don't know.
PF RP exp.: I have been playing PF since it came out...and before that 3rd ed when it came out.
3rd party: I owe some, but rarely use them in my games.
Adventure Path: Owe them all...ran one, running another, playing in a handful. Have read all the player's guide and have character concepts for all of them.
One might say I need a life...I just think RPGS are my life.
21.5 for eat breathing and living rpgs sounds right i just regret not doing it on a scale of 1-4 so max level would be 20 :(
i suppose one would have to make a test for each category but i'm not getting payed for it so nyah
We had a campaign which went to 24th level once back in 3.5, where there was an Epic Level Handbook (or something like that). There also used to be 36 levels (like the 36 Chambers of Shaolin...)
I ran one all the way to 30 once It made me realize how crazy the cr's get Biggest example was the difference of a advanced red dragon wrym and a cold fire wraith (i think that is what it was called maybe frost burn) the wraith killed a player per round and it was two crs below the party while the dragon was 2 above and was fairly standard encounter if not a little disappointing required me to fudge numbers a bit and tinker with monsters constantly. It was still fun but it kind of sold me on the imbalance of levels above 20. the worst i saw was a book by swords and sorcery that was an alternate to epic level where classes continued linearly most unbalanced crazy stuff I've seen(temporal mage *shudder*).
Mechanics: 4 -- I'm a detailed kind of guy, with a very good memory.
lore: 1.1 -- I know it's out there, but outside of the AP I am in, I know nothing.
Pathfinder "role" play experience: Just this AP (S&S), with plenty of experience from 1st ed on.
3rd party: 1.5 -- Not allowed for this AP without GM approval, so I only know about what the forum tells.
adventure path: 1.1 or 3. I only know the bits mentioned on the forums for most, and the play of the one.
overall level: ~8
However, there are some points to cover:
1) Online ability: If I can search it on the PRD, d20pfsrd, or archiveofnethys, I can get the details needed.
2) GM vs. Player experience: The adventure never goes according to plan, from either perspective. But the GM must do a lot more adjusting than a player has to. GMs also have many more things to keep track of unless a Player runs some form of pack (undead, summons, loyalty, whatever). Only once did I ever really run more than a few actors at once. I had to run a ship's crew in an anchored battle, while the party hurried to get there. While exciting, there was so much to remember, I totally forgot to have the ship's cleric cast Bless!
3) Enabling others to have fun. If you outshine everyone all the time, you take away fun. If you help others to shine, then all have fun.
4) Knowing how to have fun. If you get too into the roleplay, you can have difficulty in real life when your character is in a bad way. If you go too light, then you don't care about the character and loose interest in the game.
With my 30+ years roleplaying, I have focused mostly on the magic items and spells, not on character abilities. That is my preferred form of D&D. 4th ed's style was uninteresting to me. As I never got into MMORPGs, I never got into the mechanics those games had. 4th ed used those mechanics a lot. Also, magic was way too expensive for the little it did. I figure it was a version aimed at the video player rather than the tabletop player.
If I didn't have fun, I would not have played so long. By enabling fun for others, it made group cohesion better. Biggest problem I encountered was PvP. I don't like it in D&D. It is the only thing that ever made me want to quit an active game.
/cevah
totes agree fun is the whole reason for playing if your not having fun why play? creating a scale for fun is kind of self defeating
(lets stop every 15 minutes and do a survey for how much fun your having...far too Leslie Knope for me. )
PVP in pathfinder can break groups up. its not bad when you make a character up on the fly and do like an arena with no emotional attachment to the character but in my experience using characters you've played a long time with and getting them killed by friends does not work well for group commodore.
I'm not a fan of PVP but notice that a fair number of DMs like using stuff like Confusion and Dominate Person to encourage the PCs to fight each other. This can be a tough situation since a lot of PCs focus heavily on offense, and suffering an unexpected attack from them can be deadly.
In one game my girlfriend and I have often discussed how to survive an attack from the greatly invisible, swift feinting, claw pouncing Ninja with a Will save of +6. It is the sort of situation which can come up pretty easily if the DM wants.
Mechanics: 4.5 I'm the kind of player who loves crunch. Hell my favorite "class" in TTRPGS period is Junker from Hell On Earth. DAT MATH AND CHARTS AND DRAWING HNGGGGGGGGGGGG. Unfortunately i'm a spell caster at heart. I can make a mean combo for any class/concept but I always have to fall back to the Witch or Goblin Pyromaniac Alchemist Bomber... The characters I have always looked at for "I wish I could do that" have always been people like Khadgar, Gandalf, Diablo 2 Necro and Gandalf, even though they are all a$+!*#+s (though khadgars a pretty s+~# wizard)
lore: 2.5? I own the Inner sea book, also have skimmed races of golarion
role play experience Pathfinder: 1-2 I heard about pathfinder when It first came out, ignored it for the most part 'cause my groups were doing a 3.0 game already where I was using the Diablo 2 Necro and the other game was Deadlands. Picked it up after release of Inner Sea, Advance Class, Race books. Found the Goblin Alchemists, Goblin Comics and Witch class. Fell in love with Gobbys and Witch. Kinda like Changelings as well (More 'cause of my love for WoD though). Seriously love Gobbys though, if I were to run this so my DM could take a break id just make the campaign's main enemies Goblins.
3rd party: Are we talking D20 3rd party or just non pathfinder stuff? Cause if so 1. I've download a Lamia book and a Witch.
If were talking any non PF 5 ez. I own over 40 different corebook systems ranging from Anima, to demon hunters, to Changeling: The Lost/Werewolf: The Apocalypse. My GM and I are in a "competition" for who has the most RPG books/Obscure. He beats me atm though because he has the TMNT and Ghostbuster RPGs.
adventure path: 0 GMs the kinda person to do his own thing unless its Deadlands. I feel the same.
overall level: 9 aprox
I mostly stalk the Reddit for PF, I do the same for 5th, Malifaux and Wod but will glance at all of their forums.
I'm not a fan of PVP but notice that a fair number of DMs like using stuff like Confusion and Dominate Person to encourage the PCs to fight each other. This can be a tough situation since a lot of PCs focus heavily on offense, and suffering an unexpected attack from them can be deadly.
In one game my girlfriend and I have often discussed how to survive an attack from the greatly invisible, swift feinting, claw pouncing Ninja with a Will save of +6. It is the sort of situation which can come up pretty easily if the DM wants.
My group is probably going to rip off 7th Seas system for this kind of thing. Basically it's Player A in order to influence player B must offer a Hero point, if player b declines the point then Player A can keep his point and can not force B to do anything. If b takes the point he does what A wants. Of course it doesn't work for suicidal actions but its nice for when a players like "I roll diplomacy/dominate to convince you to give me 70% of the cut".
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Mechanics: 4.5 (I'm very good at rules, and I keep up with things)
Lore: 4.5 (I've read a whole lot of stuff on Golarion, which I love, including forum-based stuff from designers and the like as well as most official stuff)
Pathfinder "Role" Play Experience: 4 (I mostly GM with Pathfinder, but I'm pretty familiar)
3rd Party: 1.5 (I don't do much 3rd party stuff. I know a little, but not a whole lot.)
Adventure Path: 3.5 (I'm playing through one, have run one and a half, and have read several others)
Overall Level: 18th
Mechanics: 4.0 (See below)
Lore: 2.5 (I'm more of a FR/DL fanboy, but I like how flexible Golarion is and so I make my own areas for this setting)
Pathfinder Role Play Experience: 5.0 (Being GM and role playing every character in the world that PCs encounter means that I have a lot of experience on that field)
3rd Party: 2.0 (Maybe little too high, given that I only use some unofficial campaign settings for my sandbox games)
Adventure Path: 1.5 (Haven't played or run any of those, but some I've read)
Overall Level: 15th
Was tempted to lower mechanics score, because although I own every core PF book (by that I mean the main product line, not the Player Companions etc.) and I've read all of them, I sometimes get this little rule-blackout, where I just don't remember a simple rule from CRB or other book and need to search for it (yet I have everything so well bookmarked that it doesn't even slow the game). I'm almost exclusivly GMing, so I don't know every build out there, but still, in my games rarely someone complains about something being OP, even though I allow every PF material outside of 3PP and PCs (permission required with this one).