I am thinking of creating a PC for PFS who throws books as a missile weapon. But I'm wondering HOW this would be done? is there a way to make this sort of work? what would it be like?
thanks in advance for the advice - I'll try to let this thread sit a day or so and check back for ideas.
OH! and something to add...
If my PC had say, Profession Librarian, would this work?
"Adventurer's Armoury, page 31:
Rough and Ready: Your intense familiarity with the tools of your trade allows you to use them in combat as if they were actual weapons and makes them more effective for that purpose than they would normally be. When you use a tool of your trade (requiring at least 1 rank in the appropriate Craft or Profession skill) as a weapon, you do not take the improvised weapon penalty and instead receive a +1 trait bonus on your attack. This trait is commonly used with shovels, picks, blacksmith hammers, and other sturdy tools—lutes and brooms make terribly fragile weapons."
would "Rough and Ready" let someone throw books as weapons? say doing 1d3 or 1d2?
Heh, from the looks of it R&R would allow you to use it as a weapon lol
Throw Anything and Improvised Weapon Mastery would be must haves, you'd think.
Feats for throwing things generally include Close Quarters Thrower, Charging Hurler, Distance Thrower, Quick Draw, and Two Handed Thrower.
Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon might work too - those paper cuts can be nasty.
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Schadenfreude wrote: Throw Anything and Improvised Weapon Mastery would be must haves, you'd think.
Feats for throwing things generally include Close Quarters Thrower, Charging Hurler, Distance Thrower, Quick Draw, and Two Handed Thrower.
Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon might work too - those paper cuts can be nasty.
Only catch is that a librarian would have to willingly destroy books as weaponry... WORST LIBRARIAN EVER!!! :p
Or you could take Profession (Cobbler) and throw shoes at people like Random Task from Austin Powers. "Honestly, who throws his shoe?"
Easiest way is Aether Kineticist. Just use books for ammo, and you'll beat just about any thrown weapon build.
I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books...
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Mark Seifter wrote: I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books... Kineticist book element confirmed!
Jurassic Pratt wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books... Kineticist book element confirmed! I like the sound of bibliokineticists.
Mark Seifter wrote: I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books... This would be the best thing ever.. if finally allowed a book combat person, and maybe a paper based user anyway
books and ofuda!
I wanna be The Paper
Scrollmaster wizard from Ultimate Magic lets you use scrolls as weapons.
Zwordsman wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books... This would be the best thing ever.. if finally allowed a book combat person, and maybe a paper based user anyway
books and ofuda!
I wanna be The Paper Card Caster or Cartomancer seems like it would easily reflavor for Ofuda.
Goddity wrote: Scrollmaster wizard from Ultimate Magic lets you use scrolls as weapons. I sorta wish that was a magus or occultist archetype..
Actually Librarian Occultist would be pretty perfect. Making weapons of books, using the residual thoughts of the writer, and the scribs(who made copies).
Kinda like Tome Eater, book for their focus. they summong images from books to attack etc.
though really just fluff tome eater I guess.. but I imagine vastly different archetype details..
for one tome eater.. eats books. The Librarian would perserve and make them.
They'd make a pretty hilariours married couple
Zwordsman wrote: Goddity wrote: Scrollmaster wizard from Ultimate Magic lets you use scrolls as weapons. I sorta wish that was a magus or occultist archetype..
Actually Librarian Occultist would be pretty perfect. Making weapons of books, using the residual thoughts of the writer, and the scribs(who made copies).
Kinda like Tome Eater, book for their focus. they summong images from books to attack etc.
though really just fluff tome eater I guess.. but I imagine vastly different archetype details..
for one tome eater.. eats books. The Librarian would perserve and make them.
They'd make a pretty hilariours married couple Actually, I was planning on using this with a Tome Eater Occultist.... Started life as a Librarian, until one day... Yeah. Like that. ;-)
1. Telekenesis spell
2. Spell Perfection with Quicken spell
3. Get size class larger books
4. ...
5. The world is mine
Hit them with pages from a book. all with several explosive runes written in various languages.
haha.
Weell there are other better tricks than that.
Scroll gu into tome eater isn't a bad plan at all. generally speaking. Though expensive sadly.
If you had a toxicant alchemist partner they coudl poison the pages with their poison.. haha poisonous papercuts.
I would think that for throwing books at people, you don't want a librarian -- you want a judge . . . .
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Two-Two wrote: Zwordsman wrote: Goddity wrote: Scrollmaster wizard from Ultimate Magic lets you use scrolls as weapons. I sorta wish that was a magus or occultist archetype..
Actually Librarian Occultist would be pretty perfect. Making weapons of books, using the residual thoughts of the writer, and the scribs(who made copies).
Kinda like Tome Eater, book for their focus. they summong images from books to attack etc.
though really just fluff tome eater I guess.. but I imagine vastly different archetype details..
for one tome eater.. eats books. The Librarian would perserve and make them.
They'd make a pretty hilariours married couple Actually, I was planning on using this with a Tome Eater Occultist.... Started life as a Librarian, until one day... Yeah. Like that. ;-) It was the Donner boys. Always running in and disorganizing the books, always yelling so loudly they would scare others out. I saw them, and took my copy of War and Peace, and smacked them on the head. It was so freeing, so gratifying, it started to consume me. After that I accidentally tripped and a book landed in my mouth. The taste was intoxicating! I needed more, and I was fired because I ate all the books. Some call me crazy, but I just call myself an ex-librarian who smacks people with books and then eat the weapons...
While this idea is great, I wouldn't allow rough and ready for this personally.
there are several other ones that would work too I think
Zwordsman wrote: there are several other ones that would work too I think Which ones?
Mark Seifter wrote: I would wait just a little while longer before making a character that attacks with books... Ok... this is "just a little while longer..." so, what have I been waiting for? What new character type attacks with books?
Oh wow. blast from the past, and I didnt' see that question before sadly.
I don't know for sure. But I assume they might have been talking about the new Inquisitor archetype?
Though I don't know the timing would be on that release date.
It does turn a book into I think a club or morning star? the rest of the archetype sadly isnt' very popular.
Though I have dipped it with tome eating occultist.
A little late to chime in, I suppose, but:
I would also not allow Rough and Ready to work with Profession (Librarian) for throwing books. Not that I don't think it's amusing and I certainly would allow Throw Anything and the Improvised weapon feats, but I don't consider 'books' to be the tools of a librarian's trade. They are certainly the focal point of it, but they are not the tools any more than I consider a toilet to be a tool of a plumber's trade, that would be a plunger or a pipe wrench or even a plumbing snake they might use a whip. Same deal with Profession (shepherd); bonus with a shepherd's crook or shears? Certainly. Swinging a bag of wool or throwing a sheep? No.
At best as with Profession (librarian), in terms of Rough and Ready, you might be able to use a quill or a bookmark.
He was probably talking about the living grimoire inquisitor archetype that came out a while ago. Alas the archetype is pretty weak.
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Woodoodoo wrote: He was probably talking about the living grimoire inquisitor archetype that came out a while ago. Alas the archetype is pretty weak. Just because it's weak doesn't mean it can't be fun to play. I'm building one for Hell's Venegance going around hitting at his opportnents over the head with the laws of Cheliax and Asmodeus.
Jesper Roland Sørensen wrote: Woodoodoo wrote: He was probably talking about the living grimoire inquisitor archetype that came out a while ago. Alas the archetype is pretty weak. Just because it's weak doesn't mean it can't be fun to play. I'm building one for Hell's Venegance going around hitting at his opportnents over the head with the laws of Cheliax and Asmodeus. It is generally weaker but your to hit can be quite good at low levels for a 3/4 bab caster if you take this trait
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Surprise Weapon
together with the +1 to hit from holy book, You are at +3 to hit before selecting any feat
The book is not an improvised weapon.
Woodoodoo wrote: The book is not an improvised weapon. You are right, I missed the FAQ...
Pizza Lord wrote: A little late to chime in, I suppose, but:
I would also not allow Rough and Ready to work with Profession (Librarian) for throwing books. Not that I don't think it's amusing and I certainly would allow Throw Anything and the Improvised weapon feats, but I don't consider 'books' to be the tools of a librarian's trade. They are certainly the focal point of it, but they are not the tools any more than I consider a toilet to be a tool of a plumber's trade, that would be a plunger or a pipe wrench or even a plumbing snake they might use a whip. Same deal with Profession (shepherd); bonus with a shepherd's crook or shears? Certainly. Swinging a bag of wool or throwing a sheep? No.
At best as with Profession (librarian), in terms of Rough and Ready, you might be able to use a quill or a bookmark.
Hmm.. I duno if I'd buy that idea. (in the modern world it would depend on what kind of librarian you are, but in PF world there really can only be 2-3 kinds I imagine due to the tech/preservation methods that would be usuable. +/-1 for magic stuff though)
Librarians are perservers of knowledge, and while it is unlikely one would use a book as a weapon, the fact is that you would know every nanometer of the books you work with, more so in a world like pathfinder where you are likely also producing the books, preservering and maintaining them.
Granted i'm still in my Master of Lib Sci program, but I know every bit of the books I've crafted and practiced maintaince and preservation on. I know the strongest spots, where if I had to hit someone with it, I know where to hold and what portion to hit to cause the book the least amount of damage.
In your above examples the plubmer doesn't make the toilet paper, nor does he replace or maintain (thats a janitor most oft).
Bagging, carrying and swinging around a bag of wool is very much a thing a sheerer would do (assuming the shepard and sheerer are one in the same, as it would be for smaller ones). As would picking up sheep by their legs and swingign them (but not throwing) because of how some folks sheer, and how you would dispatch an older sheep to drain its blood. So I would allow the bag of wool or a sheep to be "swung around" but it wouldn't do much damage in the former case, and in the later case you're going to end up with a dead sheep eventually.
Librarians (that deal with book and preservation, which in PF terms is the most likely common form) would create the books to an extent and know it all.
So I can't see anything but allowing it. I'd be more apt to allow the book usage, than a quill or bookmark (Except for my own personal reading I dont' think I've ever touched a bookmark in my library job nor classes. Though I did make a stack once to hand out for an event I guess).
You are welcome to rule and view it as you want and this is the Advice section not the Rules forum, but I have to go with how the feat is written, and that specifies the tools of the trade, not the results, the product, or the outcome of the trade. A Rough and Ready tailor would be granted bonuses with scissors, or sewing/knitting needles, etc. but not with a shirt, or pants, or a pair of socks. A janitor would not benefit from toilet paper, it's not a tool of his profession; a mop or broom would be (and those are pointed out as being fragile and poor choices.) Janitor is probably considered unskilled labor... at best you might get Profession (handyman or caretaker) but that would actually get you access to tools, like a hammer or gardening tools like a rake or hoe.
A librarian's tools are not the books they organize, protect, preserve, or adore. Even if they were a book-binder, scroll-maker, or a scribe, the books or works they produce are not their tools. A shepherd's tool is not a sheep or a bag of wool, it's the crook they use as a tool to herd the sheep or the shears they use to trim the wool. A carpenter would become proficient with a hammer or saw, not with a door. Even a board is not a tool to a carpenter, it's a material or a resource. I don't think anyone would be too upset if you gave a someone the benefit with a 2x4, but the rules differentiate between tools and materials in crafting and professions, so technically it shouldn't be.
A blacksmith will get a bonus with a hammer or a pair of tongs, possibly even a forging billet, but not with a horseshoe or any number of other items that might be made by a blacksmith and could conceivably be used to beat someone over the head with.
The feat applies to the tools of the trade, not the focus or product of the profession. This means that certain professions will have different focuses (as is intended.) A whip-maker would not receive this benefit to using a whip (let's assume a horse- or buggy-whip, since a normal bullwhip is not an improvised weapon), however a herder, drover, or carriage-driver might. A Profession (rope-maker) would get the bonus with the tools of making rope (whatever those might be) not with rope, whereas someone with Profession (sailor) might have a case for using rope in their trade.
so,... what profession WOULD count books as "tools of their trade"?
Teacher?
Wizard?
If Profession (teacher) or (tutor) is a thing, then I would say that's probably one.
Wizard is not a Craft or Profession though.
Pizza Lord wrote: If Profession (teacher) or (tutor) is a thing, then I would say that's probably one.
Wizard is not a Craft or Profession though.
why wouldn't "Wizard" be a profession?
"Town Wizard" or "Court Wizard" could easily be a profession...IMHO.
But I guess YMMV.
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MageHunter wrote: Schadenfreude wrote: Throw Anything and Improvised Weapon Mastery would be must haves, you'd think.
Feats for throwing things generally include Close Quarters Thrower, Charging Hurler, Distance Thrower, Quick Draw, and Two Handed Thrower.
Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon might work too - those paper cuts can be nasty.
Only catch is that a librarian would have to willingly destroy books as weaponry... WORST LIBRARIAN EVER!!! :p Was old book, out of date, was scheduled to be weeded out.
First Person Shooter wrote: Pizza Lord wrote: If Profession (teacher) or (tutor) is a thing, then I would say that's probably one.
Wizard is not a Craft or Profession though.
why wouldn't "Wizard" be a profession?
"Town Wizard" or "Court Wizard" could easily be a profession...IMHO.
But I guess YMMV. Well, I don't want to get too off-topic, since the thread isn't about Rough and Ready specifically, though I think the main purpose of the thread has been answered, and you're free to view things as you like, but 'Town Wizard' and 'Court Wizard' are more titles, than professions. Just like you don't have Profession (mayor). You may have a lot skills that make you a good mayor, but it's not a profession, even if you are getting a salary for it.
I think more specifically on the class-not-profession thing, is that an adventurer or an adventuring class is considered a broad selection of skills and talents already and, as such, is unsuitable as a Profession choice. No Profession (adventurer), for instance. A Rogue may scout, they may open locks, they may disable traps... but that isn't the same as Profession (scout) or Profession (locksmith) or Craft (lock-making) or Craft (trap-making). A class, like wizard, is already a collection of skills, knowledges and abilities. Profession (soldier) is about as broad as you're going to get, and that represents knowledge of drills, ranks, formations, and uniforms and familiarity with certain weapons and their maintenance. It doesn't make you even as good as a 1st-level Warrior when it comes to fighting with them though and, in the case of Rough and Ready, the tools of the soldier's trade are already considered weapons, though you might theoretically still get the +1 for them or other benefits, which is just another way of saying that different professions will give benefits to different items and some will be better than others.
Again, do I care if you have Profession (King of the Universe) in your game? No. But as to whether that means you can use your royal crown and scepter to benefit or whether that means you can swing planets with a +1 bonus and no improvised penalties... that's a bit different.
Seems like this would be a feat or class feature of the local magistrate.
Coquelicot Dragon wrote: Seems like this would be a feat or class feature of the local magistrate. Oh, a good point! Obviously magistrate isn't a class (unless you custom up a PrC or something) so it can't be a class feature; but assuming that Profession (magistrate) is a thing, maybe Profession (barrister)... and assuming that those professions specifically use books, such as law books as their tools (some may not, it medieval fantasy mostly, could just be a known, codified set of rules they go by and don't need a 'law book'), then that might. More likely, it would apply to a magistrate's gavel.
Another one, now that you've sparked my imagination, might be a sermonizer (?) or proselytizer (?) I don't know of any Profession (missionary) skills, but since it's not the Rules section, assuming your character had at least 1 rank in that Profession and they specifically used a book as a tool to do it... then they would benefit from Rough and Ready when using it (that specific type of book, not every book.)
Again, that's just for purposes of Rough and Ready. Taking Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything should apply just fine for the purposes of the original poster's question.
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