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Starfinder and the so-called caster/martial disparity?That sounds like a band name!
Obviously our goal is for all Starfinder classes and core character concepts to have equal ability to contribute to the group and engage in the adventure. Plasma rifles, jetpacks, and powered armor mean we need to think very carefully about what that means.
We (and right now by "we" I mostly mean the PDT) are doing that careful thinking.
Just a random thought.
Maybe there should be more things like the Magus where you don't get all proficiencies right off the bat, but as class features as the game goes on.
Oh, and yea, POWER ARMORED CONFIRMED!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-
*coughs*
Sorry about that I seem AND JETPACKS CONFIRMED EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-
I seem to have some girly squeals stuck in my throat...
Ahem, regardless. I think a good design would be to slowly get proficiencies. Maybe something takes both Heavy Armor and Powered Armor proficiency to operate. Maybe it's worth burn a feat on.
But more to the point, are mundane options to modify kit going to be featured? That's the important question for me right now.
EDIT: Oh, and Jetboots! Can't forget will there be Jetboots? Having such a cheap and powerful, but still very limited in uses, option saved my rear a lot in Star Wars d20.
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How tied to the setting will the ruleset be? Golarion provides a sandbox to explore many, many different fantasy tropes and gives you guys a platform to expand the ruleset in different ways. Will this setting/ruleset similarity enable many different SF tropes?
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Are you looking to continue the trend of set capabilities as classes
While I suspect I know the answers to some of those questions, we could still change our minds, and we're definitely not talking about those kinds of specific details yet.
Do you have a recommended reading/watching list to help people get into the space-magic groove?
I'm actually far more interested in what YOU ALL are interested in as your favorite space-magic groove.
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How tied to the setting will the ruleset be? Golarion provides a sandbox to explore many, many different fantasy tropes and gives you guys a platform to expand the ruleset in different ways. Will this setting/ruleset similarity enable many different SF tropes?
We sure hope so! But our #1 concern is to make sure is handles the Starfinder setting well, though that itself is a setting with more than one appropriate trope, much as Golarion is.
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I'm actually far more interested in what YOU ALL are interested in as your favorite space-magic groove.
Elements from different Science Fiction and (not quite full magic) Science Magic I've enjoyed (no matter the media).
These generalization are for the main tone of what I want to see, but not that any specific world, culture, area has to all be like this, but this is the sort of default of what the setting feels like.
The over the top feelings of Farscape, that nonetheless makes interesting stories and intense character drama. Spelljammer had some of that too. A little over the top is a good thing.
The innate sense of being heroic of people doing the right thing, because it's the right thing to do. Luke, Finn, Captain John "Nuke-em" Sheridan, a lot of Star Trek. They ended up heroes because they decided to be. This sense of hope that a single person can make a difference. Doesn't mean there is any lack of conflict, just that the heroes feel they can make a true difference - something that SF gaming tends to lose sometimes (especially in cyberpunk or traveling trader kind of situations), but is clear in a lot of fiction.
Lack of monoculture - Babylon 5 was OK at this, there were internal conflicts within just about every alien race and culture. Each culture had basic structure with a large paint brush, but within that palette, there were some serious variations.
Connection to something (government, movement, religion) that is greater than yourself. A general view that people are looking forward and onward, not back or down and scrabbling to maintain where they are. I feel that fantasy is about personal power.. but in world with mega-sized battle cruisers, personal power is not a perfect focus - but achieving the ends of something you belong to or stand for works well in futuristic setting. (yeah this seems to conflict with the "heroic self" I mentioned above, but Luke was a Jedi, Sheridan was upholding what it meant to be a true officer, Picard because it was what the federation was about.
A sense of exploration - that was already said to be a big part of what will be there, but Star Trek's "to boldly go where no one has been before", Babylon 5's exploration of the fringe sectors, or Stargate's constant exploration of other worlds is one of the foundational concepts of future fiction.
You have mentioned a "something special knight of something special" - probably my favorite archetype is all space settings.
Mechanical specifics - all casters are similar to arcanists and/or there is no separation of realms of magic - anyone can cast any spell. Keeps magic intact but makes it feel different from classic Fantasy.
Oh, and Pad based spellbooks like in Dragonstar, that was a great bit of flavor.
A lot of science fiction / space opera has some tech or psionics to give the characters access to beyond human capability, whether it is the Lens, the Force, Spice or Dorsai combat training - that kind of thing could easily fall under "magic" for where it sits in the structure of the story.
There is my $.02.
PS - if you can't tell I am loving this game idea. I'm actually more excited about it than I was about Pathfinder itself.
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^ This post sums up much of what I want.
(But I also want DSP's stuff, or a close PP-based variant, to be adopted as a primary "system" of mystical force things. It's probably not going to happen, but I find it so much better and more compelling than Vancian, that it's hard to even explain, and most of peoples' objections to it allow it to squarely fit within a Sci-Fi setting, even though that's not the setting I prefer psionics in myself.)
Will there be Black Blood?
Will Starfinder be setting specific (like say Shadowrun) or will it be flexiable enough to support other Science Fiction/Fantasy settings (like G.U.R.P.s Space)?
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Will there be Black Blood?
"you mean oil?"
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Will there be Black Blood?"you mean oil?"
I'm a little concerned about what will happen if you start giving it to your Tachikoma though.
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One thing I don't like about PF is that a mechanic is expected for every type of interaction (ie followers, WBL to name a few) This makes things really start to bloat and it has a negative effect on storytelling flexibility. Discussions fall into rules interpretations rather than imagination.
I hope Starfinder takes some cues from D&D 5e and leaves a more old school / open-ended style of play with a simple bulletproof rules engine.
I think PF is constrained by the organized play PFS stuff which requires more consistency between groups. Do away with that and hopefully it allows for more flexibility from table to table.
Just a few thoughts. If there's anything I'd like the developers to hear, that's it.
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For Owen: Does it bother you that James is Gallant and Rob is Beloved, but you merely Endure?
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For Owen: Does it bother you that James is Gallant and Rob is Beloved, but you merely Endure?
That means he will actually survive this product development cycle. The fates other two are not so certain. :)
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Will Starfinder be setting specific (like say Shadowrun) or will it be flexiable enough to support other Science Fiction/Fantasy settings (like G.U.R.P.s Space)?
This was answered in another thread.
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One thing I don't like about PF is that a mechanic is expected for every type of interaction (ie followers, WBL to name a few) This makes things really start to bloat and it has a negative effect on storytelling flexibility. Discussions fall into rules interpretations rather than imagination.
Just to make sure the other view gets noticed, that is the thing I like most about PF. It tries to make sure that you have a framework of rules for any situation. This probably comes from me not being as creative as some people, but I like working within a system that defines the limits and I have to work within them to accomplish what I want.
I would be very disappointed if Paizo started moving in the direction of 5E and away from the exhaustive, an option-for-any-idea model that distinguishes them from the other big player.
One thing I don't like about PF is that a mechanic is expected for every type of interaction (ie followers, WBL to name a few) This makes things really start to bloat and it has a negative effect on storytelling flexibility. Discussions fall into rules interpretations rather than imagination.Just to make sure the other view gets noticed, that is the thing I like most about PF. It tries to make sure that you have a framework of rules for any situation. This probably comes from me not being as creative as some people, but I like working within a system that defines the limits and I have to work within them to accomplish what I want.
I would be very disappointed if Paizo started moving in the direction of 5E and away from the exhaustive, an option-for-any-idea model that distinguishes them from the other big player.
Unless they drop the stated goal of making it reasonably possible to integrate with PFRPG I think its a safe bet there wont be a drastic shift in that basic design choice.
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I'd like to see technology as a completely viable alternative to magic, and there be things possible in tech that both are and are not possible in magic.
I'd like to be able to build items with technology that are the equal of magical weapons, so non-casters aren't reliant on casters for better gear...they can do it themselves!
Actually, high tech and high magic not working well together would be a nice quirk to put in there. Someone who uses both should NOT be able to get the best of both worlds, but should have versatility.
Melee options. Warhammer is the poster boy of 'ranged attacks dominate all' in SF. A melee option that is VERY hard to bring down with ranged attacks would be nice. Like, Juggernaut armor that bends ranged attacks all around itself, but makes any ranged attacks of your own wildly inaccurate.
Armor/Natural armor actually defying high tech weapons. I.e. Gatling guns bouncing their bullets off dragons.
I'm VERY interested in how you're going to handle ship making/designing/pricing, given how valuable a ship is compared to worn gear.
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Best of luck on the project! I hope that you're able to enjoy it all (or at least most) of the way through. I told my friends about the announcement, and the result was a high-pitch keening of excitement.
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Your d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d12 are. If you have a d5, d7, d24 and so on (which I do), they likely aren't. No word on the d3 yet.
Wait, you mean my d20's not compatible, and I need two d12s!
Typos, for the win.
But seriously, will starships/spaceships be awesome and not glorified scene transistions?
Also, how significant will Starfinder's support of starships/spaceships be?
Finally, which term will Starfinder use: starship, spaceship, or other?
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Awww no funky dice? How am I going to use my d11s outside of DCC?
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Will there be a bird-folk race a la tengu/strix/syrinx?
In a 'space' zero-g setting winged flight isn't necessarily as useful as it might be on the ground?
Mentioned in the 'do not want' thread briefly, but could the item consumables be turned into (except for exceptionally powerful items that require recharge) a 'nat 1' forcing a 'recharge cycle' versus 'have to carry two tonnes of ammunition to sustain a fire rate for one minute'?
Will there be an homage to the works of E.E. 'Doc' Smith? (Lensman, Skylark)
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With regard to races, I'd like to see the elves have a homeworld of their own in a completely different star system. It seems pretty clear in canon that they colonised Golarion from Castrovel, but their "foot-print" on Castrovel is so small, that I consider it logical that they are from yet another planet. (Possibly the descendants of anti-tech colonists?)
Also, it might be worth your while to look at the 101 Celestial Bodies in Your Solar System thread.
What is a Solarian?
And are elves intended to be a core race, since they are aliens?
Classically, a Solarian is a person who comes from the Sol System, i.e. ours. It's a way of naming someone after their home system instead of their home world (Solarians could come from venus, earth, mercury, mars, vs Terrans coming from Earth.)
In PF? DUnno, a race based on the sun?
As a GM I found my old Alternity RPG to be a good "baseline toolbox Sci-fi core rulebook" as to what should cover at a minimum to create good science fiction RPG games and d20 Future I found to be a great "comprehensive toolbox sci-fi core rulebook" that lays a solid foundation for creating all kinds of different science fiction campaigns.I am a fan of both of those, and I wrote for both of them. And I agree they are good baselines as starting points. But neither, for example, does a good job of handling things like using whole planets flown at faster-than-light-speeds as weapons in a space battle, or focusing the entire power of the Sun at a single target, or having such a perfect understanding or everything that is happening now that you can perfectly predict the future, just to mention a few things from the classic Lensman series.
Now that's *fine*. Most people inspired by Lensmen want to be psychic star cops, not agents in massive battles with billions of soldiers. But it's an example of things that could be common in an sf setting that a game might not handle well.
For us GMs who prefer to use our own campaign setting materials, how supportive will Starfinder be as a "toolbox" for creating our own stories? (In a similar matter as how PFRPG core rules is setting neutral and allows for a huge freedom to create fantasy RPG stories)Starfinder is not setting neutral. The campaign setting is going to be an integral part of the core rules, and our first concern will be to have a game that presents THAT setting in as satisfying and robust a manner as we can.
That said we're going to be looking to tackle a lot of scifi tropes. If you were creating your own worlds with Alternity, I can't imagine you'll have difficulty doing the same with Starfinder. James Sutter has talked more than once about loving the act of creating new worlds, and even whole regions of space, and how every new planet is essentially a new campaign setting. He's also...
From another thread, Owen answered my questions above, which I greatly appreciate.
The only follow up question I have is: will SF and its supplements within its first year of release (in success anything is possible), provide me with the tools to run a SF Dragonstar campaign? :)
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To the SFDT:
Please keep us "Toolbox GMs" who enjoy the freedom of setting neutral "build it your self" rule systems in mind (Alternity, d20 Future, Pathinder...) when creating SF.
I always support these types of "toolbox" systems heavily (rules, supplements, modules, maps, tiles, pawns, miniatures, PDFs, Hero Lab/Realmswork, faith & fairy dust...) and would like to be given the same opportunity to support Starfinder if possible. :)
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I have no question right now. I just want to say thank you for making lashunta a core race. That should mean that we'll get new lashunta artwork and player options that will hopefully be translatable back over to Pathfinder. Lashunta characters are going to become a lot easier to do in PF soon.
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With regard to races, I'd like to see the elves have a homeworld of their own in a completely different star system. It seems pretty clear in canon that they colonised Golarion from Castrovel, but their "foot-print" on Castrovel is so small, that I consider it logical that they are from yet another planet. (Possibly the descendants of anti-tech colonists?)
Also, it might be worth your while to look at the 101 Celestial Bodies in Your Solar System thread.
Oh hey, I remember starting that thread. Nice!
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My first and most burning question?
Do you need any help and would you keep me in mind? :)
After that:
Have you thought about new environmental things on a ship scale like black holes/event horizons, wandering clouds of ion/electricity/whatever, and mass haunts like derelict spaceships?
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Two questions:
Will you able to use Starfinder races/classes etc in Pathfinder and vice versa?
Assuming the answer to the above is some form of "yes" then will Starfinder have something like rifts from Palladium Games excellent Rift RPG? Basically holes in time/space to let both universes interact with each other?
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please, no Giant space hamsters
please, Giant space hamsters
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please, no Giant space hamsters
ಠ_ಠ
Boo~!
please, Giant space hamsters
YUS.
EDIT: Uh... grabbed the wrong quote to respond to. Whoops~!
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F*@$ no! Hamsters need a decent place to live in space. Firefly is riddled with plot holes, and the oxygen is depleted from so much wasted air on pointless dialogue that only leads to more plot holes in the hull.
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You can have giant space hamsters, but they only appear on firefly class transport vessels.
Hah! Yes!
F+!~ no! Hamsters need a decent place to live in space. Firefly is riddled with plot holes, and the oxygen is depleted from so much wasted air on pointless dialogue that only leads to more plot holes in the hull.
... says the creature citing Mass Effect in its name.
:I
EDIT:
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Hey now! I just eat what Treppa feeds me and run on a wheel. I've never actually played the game.
I got the joke, no worries!
I don't always agree with Freehold but I absolutely 100% support and agree with his hatred of Firefly. :-)
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Boo~!
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please, no Giant space hamstersplease, Giant space hamsters
Well, if they aren't giant space hamsters, they could be radioactive hamsters from a planet near Akiton.
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All I'm saying, is the eldritch (no breath and starflight) template exist, as does a giant hamster, so...
(And if it's not big enough, there's always the gigantean template...)
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I would love to see a setting in which science has thoroughly, exhaustively examined magic...and is still baffled. "Yes, Chancellor, there is a minor genetic anomaly in these Sorcerers, but the biophysics people tell me that there is no protein coded by any DNA anywhere in the Universe that lets you turn someone else into a newt!"
I'd still like some mystery. Not midichlorians.
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Is the goal for starships/space combat to use a system that scales up from personal combat (ala the vehicle system in Ultimate Combat) or to have a separate system that PCs can only indirectly affect (for example, PC's directly attacking a vessel as opposed to fighting vessel on vessel). My preference would be a separate system as the scaling never seems to work right, although that might affect backwards compatiblility for folks wanting to have space cruiser vs outer dragon battles.
Mecha? Golemecha? Flumphs in power armor?
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mellowgoth and Torbyne, you are both kind of hinting at a class that already somewhat does that...the Alchemist :) At least in theory.
Alchemy would likely be referenced as Technomancy in the future.
@Robert Little - I'd like to see something that supports PCs being at stations providing things to do in combat. FrEx: Weapons station is attack rolls, engineering station is repair rolls and rolls to provide a bonus to attack or defense (via shielding) by rerouting power, comms station for diplomacy or intimidation or bluff, etc.